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Ep.158: Dr. Rachel Knox: MCBA Spotlight

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.158: Dr. Rachel Knox: MCBA Spotlight

Ep.158: Dr. Rachel Knox: MCBA Spotlight

An MD and MBA who knows a ton about the endocannabinoid system, Dr. Rachel Knox expounds on the miraculous nature of the ECS and it’s effect on man…and womankind. Doc Knox shares her deep knowledge on integrated medicine in a digestible way.  And you’ll come to find that the path that she’s on, is the one that she’s always sought.

Transcript:

Speaker 1: Okay, so you know Dr Rachel Knox. It's, uh, it's so good to be sitting with you. Feeling is mutual. There was a pause there. So we'll just let, let the listeners decide. You were to say some more kind of intro. You're going to give me, well, yeah, no, I just don't want to go on for like 15 minutes and then they first hear you and you know what I mean to it's way too late, but you know, when we say doctor, we need to specify what kind of doctor you are. And here we are in this, uh, this airbnb somewhere in Oakland. Right? So there might be a little bit of an echo. There might be other people that walk through, but when, when we say Dr Rachel Knox, what kind of doctor are we talking about today? Sure, yeah, why not? Today I would consider myself a cannabis specialist.

Speaker 1: I'm also with a particular interest in an endo Canab anology, but if we're asking about what I was trained in when I was intended to be, what was the initial purpose? Uh, I did my residency in family medicine with a certification in integrative medicine. What does that. So a primary care based medicine that also incorporates natural medicine, eastern philosophies, best of both worlds. Best of both worlds where we're just study. Where would I studied? Where did you study? Oh uh, well I, I got my medical education at Tufts University in Boston. Not Bad. No, not at all bad. Oh, undergrad. I went to Duke. Uh, you're a blue devil. Said that whenever you say Dick, you going to say I went to Duke Blue Devil. You're a blue devil and North Carolina not so pleased with. Right. And you don't like North Carolina, University of Chapel Hill coming from Oregon where, you know, there's this civil war between Oregon state and, and, and you allow the desks and the beavers, which I'm not a part of. Um, you know, I understood the rivalry, but when I got there

Speaker 3: I had no idea it existed. I had people with Carolina tax me off driving down 15, five. Oh, when I didn't get it. Yeah. You were hated. I was hating for no reason, no reason at all whatsoever. What were you premed the whole time or, you know, I, I was premed the whole time and uh, both my parents are in medicine. My mom and anesthesia, like she was and my dad still is in the Er and so I didn't think about it. I just thought that that's what I was going to do. I didn't feel like I had to do it. It just was logical. It's the family business. It is the family business. Interestingly enough though, there was a period of time between Undergrad and medical school where I didn't want to go into medicine.

Speaker 3: Get your fancy degree from Duke Mom and Dad, doc, mom, dad, all happy, all pleased with got the pictures. The sisters are there are at least one sister, one sister, and everybody's happy. And underneath Dr Rachel, Rachel Knox at the time, just in case I wanted to be a revolutionary. He did. Um, you know, I, I had Avara or so, so at Duke I majored in African and African American studies. Actually. I went from a psych major into that field because it just one, one class and one particular professor. I know a lot of people can probably relate to that type of a story. I'm inspired you. This, it inspired me, you know, um, we don't learn a whole lot about African American history, you know, growing up in school we learned about Mlk and slavery and that's it. Malcolm x maybe, maybe ascendance in our textbooks, um, but through that major I was exposed to, you know, associate an economic issues, health care disparity issues, um, and that really fascinated me and I thought I had a voice and so I wanted to, you know, advocate for my people and over that time I had worked in youth groups.

Speaker 3: I'm from Oregon and into Massachusetts and while I was at Duke as well and some of the local, um, community projects that we were, um, had the good fortune to be involved with at school. Well, what kind of youth projects? Let's just take the tangent, you know what I mean? What were you doing at Duke? It was just a little volunteer, um, opportunities here and they're reading to kids, talking to them about premedical preparation and then, you know, in Oregon on my summer vacations, I would work at the boys and girls club. So I was just involved with their daily programming at, at that level. And then when I got to Cambridge, I'm in Boston, I worked with the Cambridge youth programs there and again, just heavily involved in the programming and they saw me as somebody who went to a great school for college and was going into medical school as a great leader.

Speaker 1: Okay, so you know Dr Rachel Knox. It's, uh, it's so good to be sitting with you. Feeling is mutual. There was a pause there. So we'll just let, let the listeners decide. You were to say some more kind of intro. You're going to give me, well, yeah, no, I just don't want to go on for like 15 minutes and then they first hear you and you know what I mean to it's way too late, but you know, when we say doctor, we need to specify what kind of doctor you are. And here we are in this, uh, this airbnb somewhere in Oakland. Right? So there might be a little bit of an echo. There might be other people that walk through, but when, when we say Dr Rachel Knox, what kind of doctor are we talking about today? Sure, yeah, why not? Today I would consider myself a cannabis specialist.

Speaker 1: I'm also with a particular interest in an endo Canab anology, but if we're asking about what I was trained in when I was intended to be, what was the initial purpose? Uh, I did my residency in family medicine with a certification in integrative medicine. What does that. So a primary care based medicine that also incorporates natural medicine, eastern philosophies, best of both worlds. Best of both worlds where we're just study. Where would I studied? Where did you study? Oh uh, well I, I got my medical education at Tufts University in Boston. Not Bad. No, not at all bad. Oh, undergrad. I went to Duke. Uh, you're a blue devil. Said that whenever you say Dick, you going to say I went to Duke Blue Devil. You're a blue devil and North Carolina not so pleased with. Right. And you don't like North Carolina, University of Chapel Hill coming from Oregon where, you know, there's this civil war between Oregon state and, and, and you allow the desks and the beavers, which I'm not a part of. Um, you know, I understood the rivalry, but when I got there

Speaker 3: I had no idea it existed. I had people with Carolina tax me off driving down 15, five. Oh, when I didn't get it. Yeah. You were hated. I was hating for no reason, no reason at all whatsoever. What were you premed the whole time or, you know, I, I was premed the whole time and uh, both my parents are in medicine. My mom and anesthesia, like she was and my dad still is in the Er and so I didn't think about it. I just thought that that's what I was going to do. I didn't feel like I had to do it. It just was logical. It's the family business. It is the family business. Interestingly enough though, there was a period of time between Undergrad and medical school where I didn't want to go into medicine.

Speaker 3: Get your fancy degree from Duke Mom and Dad, doc, mom, dad, all happy, all pleased with got the pictures. The sisters are there are at least one sister, one sister, and everybody's happy. And underneath Dr Rachel, Rachel Knox at the time, just in case I wanted to be a revolutionary. He did. Um, you know, I, I had Avara or so, so at Duke I majored in African and African American studies. Actually. I went from a psych major into that field because it just one, one class and one particular professor. I know a lot of people can probably relate to that type of a story. I'm inspired you. This, it inspired me, you know, um, we don't learn a whole lot about African American history, you know, growing up in school we learned about Mlk and slavery and that's it. Malcolm x maybe, maybe ascendance in our textbooks, um, but through that major I was exposed to, you know, associate an economic issues, health care disparity issues, um, and that really fascinated me and I thought I had a voice and so I wanted to, you know, advocate for my people and over that time I had worked in youth groups.

Speaker 3: I'm from Oregon and into Massachusetts and while I was at Duke as well and some of the local, um, community projects that we were, um, had the good fortune to be involved with at school. Well, what kind of youth projects? Let's just take the tangent, you know what I mean? What were you doing at Duke? It was just a little volunteer, um, opportunities here and they're reading to kids, talking to them about premedical preparation and then, you know, in Oregon on my summer vacations, I would work at the boys and girls club. So I was just involved with their daily programming at, at that level. And then when I got to Cambridge, I'm in Boston, I worked with the Cambridge youth programs there and again, just heavily involved in the programming and they saw me as somebody who went to a great school for college and was going into medical school as a great leader.

Speaker 3: And so I was just like, I kind of just want to be an advocate, a great leader. Why not? I have so much to say and contribute. There's so much here. There's plenty of doctors even in your family already. Exactly. But these kids need help. These kids need my voice. And so at that point I wanted to create programming, whether it was like, um, you know, weekend school, which I know would not fly in our youth populations who wants to go to school for that added benefit of giving a little bit more education about your, your rich cultural history that is lost on all of us because quite frankly we're not taught it or we're, we're provided miseducation in that arena. So I was very passionate about that. Um, but when I was having those thoughts and conversations with people who are closest to me, um, they reminded me that I'm, I'm yuling uniquely positioned at that time I had done all the credits, I had done everything I needed to do to get into medical school, do it anyways, but do it differently.

Speaker 3: Do it anyways. Do it differently. I want to talk about that. You said miseducation. I want to make sure I understand what that means. Sure. We generally are miseducated do, do you mean undereducated or do you actually mean miseducated? Both. Both, but with respect to the African American community in particular, we are a totally miseducated about our history and American history and really world history. How, how, so, so your lenses through which we're taught, right? We have any more. So let's see. Um, I don't even remember what grade I was in when we're exposed to all the stuff, but just, you know, high school history course, there is maybe a chapter in the book about slavery and there is a chapter in the book about Martin Luther King and we are taught that through a lens of, Oh, here's some information, but we don't get into the matters that were at hand.

Speaker 3: We don't have conversations. And so as an African American kid, my view was the same view. We all took. Look, yeah, there was slavery and a Lincoln came and abolished it and you know, there was a Harriet tubman and she was really awesome on the underground railroad and I'm mlk fought for desegregation and that's wonderful. But there are so many stories that were missed. There's tragedies that we've missed. There's, there's a really scary and dark side to that history that I think would help answer a lot of our questions, um, regarding our, our, our social and economic and health care disparities. And we don't talk about that. So it's really easy for the American population at large to really misunderstand the, um, the misunderstand the, I guess the reasons why there are such disparities in education in our workforce. I mean everybody. Why, why, why even classify

Speaker 4: African American at that point? Hey, you know, if we're all miseducated

Speaker 3: well I'm, you know, I'm a 22 year old African American woman at the time, at the time I still am, but I'm not 22 anymore. That was a 22 year old, also African American. And so that was the community I wanted to speak to speak to you again and do my part in guiding us to a new, enriched place.

Speaker 4: There just needs to be more information. There needs to be better information. I have this strong voice, I have my eyes wide open. I need to do this

Speaker 3: in medicine. We call everything informed consent. You have to give the patient every bit of information that might influence their decision, but they're the ones who are, who get to make the decision. So I, I love an informed person. There's such a thing called informational therapy. It's therapeutic to know things. And I, I wanted to contribute my voice into providing a new Lens, a different perspective through which we could learn our history. And I really did think that that might help, um, you know, raise some of us out of our dire circumstances, you know, understanding from whence we came. I mean, I think that applies to everything. Understanding your history. Well, it helps prevent you from making the same mistake.

Speaker 4: Absolutely. That's why this is a realtime history of legal cannabis for one. So, you know, I'm into what you're saying. Um, but instead of going purely, if you will, on that path, you did have medical school, you know, this opportunity right here in the advice was do it, but do it differently. And what does that mean?

Speaker 3: So I didn't know what that meant at that time, but, um, I do everything differently. I mean, I wear my hair, definitely wear my clothes differently, I do everything differently. So I took that notion and ran with it and I decided to only apply to dual degree programs. So there were only a handful of medical schools at that time that we're offering. Um, you know, medical degrees and business degrees or, and a jd. So I decided to go to, well I got into tufts so I decided to go there, but I applied to dual md, MD, MBA programs. Um, so that I could bring something different. I didn't even know that was a possibility to my medical practice, whatever that was going to be at that time. I still had no idea, but I wanted some more tools in my toolbox.

Speaker 4: That's amazing. So, so the Tufts degree was md and Mba. Wow. Which is not to be confused with a Mtma or of DNA or any of that. Yeah. Um, so how many years does that take?

Speaker 3: So traditionally five, but tufts being the first school to have that dual degree program offered it in for. So I was a no brainer. You did man,

Speaker 4: you did medical school and got your Mba in years.

Speaker 1: Is that, I mean, how much did you sleep right in December before everybody else got there? We worked through all, all the summers. What was the attrition rate there? That sounds outrageous, like an outrageous amount of, uh, work. You know, I have friends that are Mbas, I have friends that are doctors, but to put them both together, it sounds insane. We were passionate, you know, uh, there were 11 of us in our dual program that year. Sorry, I stutter sometimes. That's fine. Trying to get everything out at once. One of there are 11 of us and we were just excited about the position that we were replacing ourselves and, and we had some really unique opportunities. We went out to go to Brazil one summer and um, run some programming and a hospital in Sao Paolo and we had a phenomenal experience. So I think that, you know, we were just excited to be there and to learn a different aspect of the industry.

Speaker 1: I mean, when you, when you're motivated by the right, why you don't get tired, why, why? So here we're going to leave you in Brazil for a second and you're getting your dual major in four years, which again, I, I, I can test is ridiculous. But you've done it. So it can't be ridiculous by definition were how does this person get created? Let's talk about doc mom and dad. Let's go back to, to, to Oregon. Was it actually Portland or was it outside of Portland? Where did you grow up? Question. So, uh, I went to private schools, so I was in Portland private schools, but my parents moved us out to Westland, which is about 20 minutes outside of Portland in the city limits. I'm not a suburb you would call it at the time. It's like undocumented Westland, um, you know, so they sort of throw us in into that community, but we're really in no man's land.

Speaker 1: I mean, they were a farms where I, where I lived, you know, people had Llama farm, farm. Yeah. Um, you know, Oregon's wide open space. Portland's a great, I think a metropolitan area. Um, it's a lot more sprawling than people realize. You know, our, our downtown Portland is not big by any stretch of the imagination. So we're not competing with Chicago and San Francisco and New York by any means. No. Aren't you competing with Seattle though? Isn't that what our city is in your soccer team better than their soccer team? The Portland Timbers? I think probably and I don't care about that. I don't follow soccer since I played. I didn't play for quite a long time. Let's talk about that. Where were, where were you on the field? I was a right midfielder. Okay. So you're fast enough and so you played when you were young? I played through my freshman year of high school. You're going to these private schools and you're playing soccer until your freshman year of high school. And then why? Why did you, did you not have enough? No, I

Speaker 3: actually played basketball and ran track and, and by that time if you're running with the big leagues, which I was, you know, year on year round teams, you're on a youth teams and so and I was and I was on a soccer, a new team and a basketball Aau team and then I just discovered how fast I really was. So I was on the track team. I was just doing a whole lot and I had to choose.

Speaker 1: So what did we choose? I chose basketball. Huh? I think probably a point guard point guard. Okay. The general if you will. Right. And then what were you, what was it assists that you were or did you, were you a high score? You know, I was pretty solid. I had all around. Good, well rounded. Not Quite. I'm like, what were my stats? Let's see if I can remember. I think it was somewhere around 10 points a game. Okay, fair enough. Yeah. Sixty eight assists. I think. Look at this. That's the one, you know, I would consider those pretty things. Don't fall asleep. Don't fall asleep on Rachel. Don't do not. So you're playing basketball, you're getting your private education. What? Uh, you know, I went to public school, uh, I don't know. Private school what, what did, what came out of that for you? Did you love the experience? Did you hate the experience? Are you happy for the experience in retrospect?

Speaker 3: Definitely happy for the experience. In retrospect. Um, do I think it played a role in, in me getting into the elite colleges that I got into? Probably a little bit. Not every student came from a private school at Duke and certainly not every black student came from a private school at Duke. Um, but I, I do think it positioned me well. Um, you know, playing basketball. So I went to Jesuit high school in Portland, Oregon and this is a school that Nike and chose to sponsor, you know, for good reason. They had great athletic programs. I think our, our soccer team, both men and women's went to state every year and one or football team was it heavy contender many times. Um, and so I felt from an athletic standpoint because I wanted to go and play basketball in college, that's what I wanted to do, that it was going to elevate me in some way, but I was still a black student in a predominantly white private school. So. So

Speaker 1: people like to say at the end of the day, but your point is well at the beginning of the day, during the day, ensure at the end of the day. But well it contributed to who I am today. I will certainly attest to that. How do you mean? That's a big nut to crack, but what are you, what are we getting at, you know, back in the race, of course, of course. That's part partly certainly will what we want to, what we want to talk about. Was it that I am a minority and I don't like that. Or were you not treated as a minority?

Speaker 3: Was it ignored completely? What? What was the construct? Me being one of the only brown faces, um, at school was normal, right? I went to a private school so it was always me and maybe a couple of people a little bit darker than me, but I was always the minority so I was used to that but it wasn't until I got to high school and I was challenged on a couple of occasions and one has to do with sports and one has to do with academics, um, that I think my, my fight was born truly. The first one was my freshman year when I was trying out for basketball. Um, and I knew I was good. Right? But they, they all freshmen trout together over a course of two days. And it became very apparent who the standouts were, um, and me being one of them, um, there were three of us and by day two we were playing against each other because they wanted to pit us against each other and see who was the best out of those three girls.

Speaker 3: And I will never forget how my aunt threw down. Okay. I made, we were all different. We played different positions. I think I was the point, a point guard and another girl was maybe a shooting guard. And then the third girl, she's tall so you know, we weren't playing in the same positions, but I was dominating and I will never forget when they called me into the office to discuss, you know, whether they were going to move me up to Jv or varsity because certainly it was going to be one of those two when they told me they, that I made a team, but they didn't know if it was the freshman a or b team I was done. We don't even know if you're a starter on the freshman team type of thing. Like the good fresh. Right. Right. And I was like, I was at your tryouts, like I know that you were trying to see who was the best out of the three of us and we were the best of the bench.

Speaker 3: So how come JV varsity isn't a part of this conversation? I'm 14 years old having these thoughts. So I go home, I talked to my mom, he didn't ask that question, not on that, that then we're getting to the good part. So I go home and, and, and my father is white and my mom is black. So I had this conscious, my mom and she has her own unique story coming out of the bay area and being the fourth, fourth of 15 kids and the only one to go to college and become a doctor. Like that's a whole other amazing story, um, in and of itself. But she was highly offended by that. And I don't remember if it hasn't been, I don't remember our conversation, but I do remember marching into the athletic office the next day and telling them as a 14 year old that I thought they made a mistake and they needed to consider me for JV or varsity really kind of with, with, with mom's a Gusto at your back. Exactly, exactly. Um, and I was starting on Jv. Oh Wow. Oh, so you, that Monday you corrected the error

Speaker 1: or we, we as a family corrected the error, it sounds like. What, do you remember anything else that your 14 year old kid? So probably not, but do you, do you remember what they said or. I don't remember what they said, like, Oh yeah, I had my mom's and Gusto, you know, at my back. I don't even remember why I really had the guts to go in there and do that. Well, I mean I remember being 14 and not knowing what the hell was going on really. And, uh, when I would have real, true conversations with my parents and if they were able to pierce through the armor of adolescents, it's like a, that makes sense. So all of a sudden I know what to do. So you know, that it's, you know, you're young enough to be informed completely still at that point. Absolutely.

Speaker 1: And the interesting aspect about this is that wasn't, it was, wasn't directly, it wasn't apparently racial right. But I've come to realize through my interactions from that point on that things can be subtly racist. Um, and this was a crop of white kids and, and they've never seen this black girl before. Um, and I think they had already had the kids they wanted picked out for the team. And so they didn't even see me. It's not that they weren't trying to consider me, they just didn't see me with the three best players. It was just like, well, she's one of the best players. Sure. But we'll pick between the other two. Amazing. Because they were put, one of them was put on Varsity and the other one on Jv day when they told the same day, they told me they didn't know if I was going to be on freshman arb.

Speaker 1: Those two girls got their JV and varsity bit, so it didn't make any sense. If I'm going to just take this tangent because it seems appropriate. I was playing basketball and uh, I'm not an athlete, but my dad was the coach of the team. Uh, and I know I'm not an athlete and I know he's a decent guy because I didn't get a lot of playing time, you know what I mean? Like we're just going to. It's good sign you'll, you'll play when you're supposed to play, but everything's fine and you still have a good sense of self and all that. Anyway. So we're, um, we're at practice and uh, not me, but a Adam bureau is a really good basketball player at the time point guard and he's, you know, we're going through drills and he's beating everybody and he's really much better than everybody else on the team.

Speaker 1: And so I'm the. That's fine in and of itself, but he was being loud about it and he was like making the other kids feel bad, not me so much because I already knew I wasn't a good basketball player, but for the other kids that were trying, it was like a tough thing and I was trying to get my point. Anyway, Chanequa is at the other end of the gym and uh, my dad had, did some coaching, had, had coached at another time and she was on another team of mine. She was a black girl, right. So I'm.

Speaker 4: Adam pro is popping off at the mouth and uh, he, uh, my dad, uh, calls, uh, cost unique, whoever. He says, come on, you know, let's, let's, uh, do you mind, uh, you know, playing a little bit and I'm, what I'm pleased to report is that Adam's a issue was nothing other than she was a girl, right. So, you know, color does not play into this. And uh, he's like some girl, what are you? Come on, I just beat all these guys. Just speed all these boys. And so, uh, he starts at the top of the key and literally cannot get the ball past the fountain line like that, that, that the double room and she's just tapping the ball away from him without really trying that hard to, to boom and getting, he got so upset and uh, and did have a bit of a temper tantrum. We were 10 at the time, but, but there's my, you know, recognizing talent on the basketball court and using it appropriately.

Speaker 3: And, you know, at the end of the day, I, when I was approaching college, I sent my tape into duke and they had filled the roster already, but I was told, you know, come on, we would love to have you walk on. So

Speaker 1: yeah, I wasn't good enough. Right. What did you walk on? So politics are huge and athletic sports and. But wait, we should stop you because there was another example. Oh yes, yeah. In high school. Still to do with, you know, getting, getting into deep. Okay. So let's, yeah,

Speaker 3: so junior year, beginning of senior year, you meet with your counselor and you go over the list of schools that you want to apply to and I don't know, for some reason I thought that I would obviously get into a cal Berkeley and uh, Duke University and whatever. I believe.

Speaker 1: So that was my list. That was the whole list I get into those sorts of schools. I love that. And with the way that you just reported it, it wasn't ego, it wasn't ego, it wasn't ego at all. I just thought that's where you're supposed to apply and that's where I'm supposed to go.

Speaker 3: I hadn't like, oh, I'll get to my next point. I gave my list to the counselor and he looked over it and looked up at me and said, um, you need to have some fallback schools on this list. My point was I didn't even know to consider a fallback school. I'd never even heard of that term before. What does that mean?

Speaker 1: So I went home and told my mom

Speaker 3: and again, outrage, just thoroughly outraged and she marched herself back up into that school and told the counselor that he should never say that to a kid the way that he did because once she's smart. Did you even look at her connections? Do you look at her sat scores? Right? Why did you feel like you had to. The first thing out of your mouth had to be, make sure you have some fallback calls. Um, you know, my kid, my kid is very capable and um, I got in to the Ivy's into Duke.

Speaker 1: I got it. Why did we choose Duke then for the basketball thing or no, it wouldn't have been. It might've been. It might've been. That might've been that. Where did she go to school? Where did mom, doc, mom go to school at cal Berkeley. Okay. So that's a good school. Brother went to cal Berkeley. And where does your sister go to school? Harvard. Okay. And where did your dad go to school? You Dab. Okay. So he's the, he's actually, he's the issue. He's the outlier and he made me double double Husky. I think that's what they call people who go to Undergrad and graduate school at this. It's none of my business, what they call them, I guess. Right. You know. Um, so you got in and that was her point and you know, the.

Speaker 3: Listen, my sister had him as her counselor too, and she only had a harvard on her list. And guess what, he did not say to her,

Speaker 1: right? He does not want doc mom coming back. No, but any learning

Speaker 3: the hard way. Um, but the point was, and this goes for it doesn't matter what color your skin is, right? You just, you lead with I'm favorable language with encouraging language when you're talking to a student, let's broaden, broaden the list as opposed to a fault. But this is in this. I don't think this is just a Oregon by any means, but my brother, my older brother, three years ahead of me was going to go to the school. I went to high school and um, my mom and dad went to an open house during the application stage and one of the teachers at this, and this is why we had our thoughts that these might be racial, um, you know, scenarios. Uh, when my mom was at that open house, she walked up to one of the counselors then who took one look at her and said, um, when your son comes here, he's going to have to take a remedial English class because he can't talk the way he talks at home here.

Speaker 1: What do you even say to that? She didn't say anything. She didn't know what to say. So unfortunately the school, and it's a miracle that I even went there, you know, having that, having had that experience, um, as a family, but that set a precedent, essential that are staged or racial tone for us really

Speaker 3: receive everything that we experienced at that school. And so, um, can we say the experiences that I had were purely racial, racial? No, we can't, but there certainly was a racial undertone. But that's part of my story, right? That's, that's, that has motivated and fueled me to step into the roles that I have overtime.

Speaker 1: What I love about that story though is that actually if he were to talk at the school, like you talked about how you'd actually have to dumb it down for the other kids. Got Such smart people at home. All right, so we're walking onto duke, right? So we get into Duke. That's fantastic. Duke is very well known for being a very good basketball

Speaker 3: school. And so here comes Rachel Knox. No, walk on. It's tough to be a walk on. Um, you know, there's people that have made it, they have their scholarships and they don't want. Yeah, taken their spot. Right.

Speaker 1: Cute. The uh, rudy music as we're talking about this.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So I did, I got the Cup a practice for a couple of months, um, but was eventually told that they couldn't offer me a spot, but that I could stick around and help out the managers and practice, you know, if, when they needed me to be considered for the next year. Okay. So happily that's the role I took. Of course I had my mom and my dad and my brother and my back. You're transferred to unc

Speaker 1: to answer to you directly. Yeah.

Speaker 3: It's like, but I like at my school I have new friends so I didn't do that. Um, but there did come an opportunity for me to play. It was march madness and through a series of other unrelated events, the team had dwindled down to eight player. So the Duke Women's team in that time only had eight players. You meet someone you need, you need a nap, right? Um, you need, you need some reserves. Absolutely. Um, so I was asked to start practice again in, for me that was a win like, yes, my foot back in the door because I wanted to play so badly. Um, but one practice in my head, my face collided with the head of this practice player who um, and women's teams practice against no men teams. I'll be like jv caliber men's teams. I mean guys who are good and they're big and they're strong. And this guy had to have been like six, eight, 200 something pounds. And we were both a charging for a ball and my face ran into his head and knocked my two front teeth. Oh Wow. Back. Um, and so I was told by the dentist that I needed to take eight weeks off of basketball and that was the end of the season folks. So that's a bummer. I know your teeth look great. Thank you. But I didn't get the fight for my spot and they had a whole new recruiting class the next year. So,

Speaker 1: and then that was it. That's the whole, that's the whole tragic, tragic story. So if I play it, I would have been in the NBA today. That's why mba today, you know, my life would have been quite different and that's not what I'm destined to do. Exactly. You and I wouldn't be talking and it wouldn't be in Brazil, which is where we left you. So you're, you know, really helping out that community. So this is that voice that we wanted to. We were learning from them, the community

Speaker 3: and their hospital about their business practices and health. Um, so this was a, um, a business project that week designed for ourselves. Like I said, like the dual degree programs are awesome because you get to do a whole lot of cool stuff.

Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you can say whatever you want here. Thanks. Thanks for filling out. Yeah.

Speaker 3: And so we designed that program for ourselves. Does it go get your experience from the hospital administrators down in Brazil?

Speaker 4: So we're dealing with health care, we're dealing with business, we're dealing with another country. You were dealing with a college student with 10 other people or whatever it was. What was the kind of real key takeaway from that trip that was a big thing that you guys organized? What did you take away from that?

Speaker 3: What I took away from that was that the medical field or healthcare in general can truly be whatever you want it to be. When we were studying different healthcare models while we were down there, um, so really big around the world right now is the concept of medical tourism where people travel to different countries to get their healthcare, but there are programs curated around them. So they can get their healthcare, but also experienced local community, um, go to day spas. It's, it's really lucrative and ritzy proposition for both the consumer, consumer patients but in business talk me still call them consumers. Um, and in the hospital systems and that's people come from all over the world, United States to get care, but it's not medical tourism, right? It's not glamorized, if you will. And not that I wanted to get into that, but it showed me a different avenue in which health care can be administered. Yeah. Um, so it, it really, what it did probably as get my, you know, the years rolling in my head because I knew I didn't want to do that necessarily. But I also knew at that time that I didn't want to do conventional medicine either. Right.

Speaker 4: You knew that going into medical school. So you come out graduating in four years with your md and Mba, which again, I concede is uh, uh, may well, it's amazing. So congratulations. Um, what was the first step? What did you decide? What did you say? Here we go. So, history repeats itself. So

Speaker 3: when I was applying to residency, I didn't want to write, I didn't want to go to medical school, I want to do something different and then now residency comes around. I don't want her to go to residency. Um, and, and the issue was during medical school, I recognize that the way I was being taught 'em how to administer medicine was, in my opinion, right,

Speaker 4: factually actually in terms of information, information, uh,

Speaker 3: ethics and everything in between. The whole thing. The whole thing was wrong. What were they doing and what should do. There are different aspects of, you know, conventional medicine that are essential to what you mean. But what do you mean? So our healthcare system, right hospital, the hospital system, let's go there. And the hospital system was created to treat people who are suffering acute illnesses or had been in a traumatic event. So catastrophic care. We need life saving, you know, initiatives. We need to be able to get you into the ICU, resuscitates you intubate, you pump you full of medications, antibiotics if we need to, if your leg gets chopped off, don't you want somebody to help put it back on again? Sure. Um, but what I'm talking about is what the system has become and that's a chronic care system. Right? And our chronic ailments are mostly elements that are preventable or reversible.

Speaker 3: And as a third year medical student thrust into the wards, you know, taking care of patients inside the hospital. I recognized that a lot of the conditions that we were trying to treat, um, were diseases of lifestyle, um, and recognize that they were things that we should be teaching people to prevent or reverse. And I wasn't being equipped with that knowledge so that I could share that knowledge with patients. And the people who were teaching me didn't have the answers that I was to the questions I was asking about that either. So I recognize that, um, I wasn't, I wasn't getting the resources that I needed to be what I thought a good doctor and a good healthcare provider would have. So give me an example of what you're talking about. Okay. Well, fast forward a little bit. I chose family medicine and the reason I chose family medicine is because I do believe in the concept of a primary care physician or somebody you can talk to you about every, every aspect of your health.

Speaker 3: Um, I also recognize that I would get the broadest foundation of knowledge by going into family medicine, right? I know a little bit about everything. Um, and from within my residency I dealt with a lot of diabetes. I dealt with a lot of heart disease and type two diabetes in particular is a disease that's one preventable into reversible, but we were treating it with medications that weren't designed to reverse the disease. Um, there are medications that are designed to manage the disease. The issue with medicine though is that we don't view it or perceive it through the lens of root cause analysis. Right. If I switch the lights on, right, flip that switch up. I can also do what? Switch it back down and turn those lights back off. A lot of our diseases are because we switched lifestyles on or we switch genes on and then we get sick. Well, if you can switch something on, can you switch it off again? Yes. And through natural medicine, alternative medicine, using food as medicine. We've done that time and time again for patients. Um, we help patients. He's, I have helped patients reverse their type two diabetes through nutrition alone. But I had to learn that I had to learn how to utilize food. You have to tell yourself I had to teach myself that I had to seek out resources and mentors on my own. I wasn't learning that in residency. So the

Speaker 4: guy with the diabetes comes in with the lights on and what you were being taught was I'll give him some sunglasses because the lights are on. Great analogies that yes, that's a precise number. Number one, it's, he's inside so he doesn't need sunglasses. Number two, why don't we just teach them to turn the lights off

Speaker 3: precisely, precisely, and for whatever reason, that was blatantly apparent to me as a third year medical student. Nobody had talked to me about that. I just,

Speaker 4: we've had it. We shared the, the, I shared with you the anecdote just just before we started with, uh, my mom was sick with analysts amyloidosis for three years. We had a world renowned doctor and your response was they all are. But, uh, basically we went through three years of treatment and all getting progressively worse. Unfortunately, she passed away. Um, however, uh, right when he was giving up, as I explained to you, um, a couple months before that we realized that a no salt diet did her a tremendous amount of good at it and you completely change her trajectory for a very short amount of time. But we realized that, well, what if we had done this three years ago? Yes,

Speaker 3: when you give the body the resources it needs and you eliminate from the body the toxicity, the toxic burdens that, you know, we inundated with it heals very quickly. Um, you know, patients will be on diabetic medications for years and you know, we might do a good job keeping their sugars. I'm pretty level, but I will tell you when they changed their diets, they can go into remission and months into remission, into remission. I, I use this analogy a lot with my patients. Um, if you are a car with a non diesel engine and I put diesel in you, what happens? Not much. I'm actually, you're gonna Peter out and stop 100 feet down the road. Well, that's what we're doing to our bodies, right? We're real people. Doesn't it make sense that you put real food into real people to fuel them? Okay. What happens when you put a bunch of fake food and Chemical Laden food into people, into real people?

Speaker 4: That's how you, that's how we get shitty people right there. Precisely. Yeah. But, uh, you mean physically? I mean, mentally I'm joking, but you know, some of this, all of this obviously comes around to cannabis because anybody listening to the cannabis economy podcast to saying, okay, we get it, get to it, get to the good stuff already. Right. So you, you, you know, kind of a whole person is what your, um, fixing with your general practitioner a touch. When did cannabis come into it? So cannabis

Speaker 3: came into it probably halfway through my third year of residency, both my parents in Oregon and I did my training in Charlotte, North Carolina that has a CBD, only La. Um, but my parents back in Oregon had gotten themselves into a, their recommendation writing service cannabis. Look at this. Yeah. And uh, I knew at the beginning of my third year of residency I was not going to interview for any conventional jobs, no hospital, no clinic was going to employ me because I wanted to get out and do something on my own

Speaker 4: and no clinic was going to employ me that that's your choice. I want to make sure people understand the magic. Yeah.

Speaker 3: Yeah. That was my funny way of saying it. I, I didn't throw in my application because I didn't want to work in those systems. Right. Um, so I decided that with my sister, we would develop our own functional medicine practice, which is a root cause analysis, root cause analysis approach to medicine in healthcare. Um, and so we were going to do that concierge style and online and so that we can reach the most people. Um, but I needed to finance that. Right, right. Uh, so I got into the cannabis recommendation writing surveys,

Speaker 4: uh, because that's a little bit more lucrative, I guess. Yeah, no, I'm. Well, what it did was pay the bills, right? So, uh, and help fund this whole thing anyway, right? It's correct. And so, well, first off, how did you know that your sister would be a good partner?

Speaker 3: We had had many conversations. We, we, we look the same, we talk the same, I am two years older, uh, we have the same mannerisms. We basically have the same brain. So interestingly enough we came to the same conclusions. Right. Separately.

Speaker 4: So you started writing cannabis recommendations. What is immediately apparent to you in terms of, you know, um, the way that you studied the way that you've prepared yourself for that moment, what immediately became apparent to you as far as the patients and as far as the medicine? Yeah.

Speaker 3: What immediately became apparent to me was that patients were desperately in need of an answer that wasn't in conventional medicine

Speaker 4: that wasn't being provided to them for all of the reasons we just discussed. The lights were on, but no one was home. How about about that? Right? Correct. Yeah.

Speaker 3: And because I wanted to be a good doctor because your doctor, everybody wants to ask me medical questions. It wasn't different with the cannabis patients and they were asking me cannabis specific question. So I had to do my own research. I had to go to pub med, I had to look up articles. Um, I had to look up the clinical and research studies that, that are in existence and have been for decades. I taught myself about cannabis as medicine in, you know, uh, I wasn't surprised, but I was also very excited and amazed in some ways about what I was learning about cannabis as medicine in the endoccanabinoid.

Speaker 4: I was just going to say, as far as being amazed when you came upon the endocannabinoid system, your brain must have popped into many pieces like popcorn. What, what did you know? Immediately I thought, yeah.

Speaker 3: Um, because I, I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm rogue, you know, in many ways. And I, I immediately became angry that this information was suppressed, right? Give

Speaker 4: for anyone listening that doesn't know. Give us the one on one of the endocannabinoid system.

Speaker 3: Yeah. So the endocannabinoid system is a pretty robust. I'm signaling system in our bodies that seems to modulate every other system, physiologic system in our body. So it modulates our cardiovascular system in some ways. Our reproductive system, our endocrine system, our neurologic system. It is keeping all of those systems finely tuned. Um, it's sort of a checks and balances system. So it is imperative that this endocannabinoid system is running well for every other system in our body to run well to. Um, what I think is most fascinating. Well, there's a lot of fascinating things about the ecs, um, but how long it's existed, right? Every mammal has an ecs and we've even predated it too before cannabis came into existence,

Speaker 4: into existence on earth. Well, but why do you speak? He asks of cannabis when you speak of the endocannabinoid system.

Speaker 3: Rephrase that asset.

Speaker 4: Well, what I'm saying is that it's one's built for the other, right? Yeah. So explain that please.

Speaker 3: Short, short, short. Um, so maybe in a roundabout way. So if we think that the ECS, I'm predates cannabis, then what else plays into this ecs? Well, we discovered cannabinoids, that our body creates itself, um, and the, the phyto cannabinoids that exist inside of cannabis. They mimic the cannabinoids that our body makes on demand for itself. Um, and that's why cannabis works so well. And a lot of people, a lot of our scientists are hypothesizing that a lot of our modern diseases are due to ecs deficiencies. Right? We're out of tone, we need some fine tuning, and because we're really, we're, we're overfed malnourished people in this country, right? We're not putting the right fuel into our bodies, so we are deficient in a lot of things, um, particular vitamins and minerals and when you don't have the right well, things don't run well and that, that includes the ecs.

Speaker 3: So we believe that a lot of our bodies aren't capable of producing our cannabinoids on demand and we don't have the receptors that make up this ecs to, to, uh, facilitate these cannabinoids anyways, but enter cannabis or other plants that we're discovering that have phytocannabinoids as well. They mimic our endogenous cannabinoids. That's the cannabinoids that are made in our body in such a way that it's enhancing our needs. Fine tuning as says, toning us. So if I have fibromyalgia, which is one of the, um, the conditions that we think really is a true at ecs deficiency, cannabis works so well to treat that pain. Why? And that's why we think it might be necs deficiency. Um,

Speaker 4: what else? Let's get used. Bring up fibromyalgia, maybe hit on some of the, uh, the better known conditions that

Speaker 3: pain, chronic pain, and so that's, you know, I think stroke might take the cake for, um, the most debilitating condition or a country, but chronic pain is very debilitating and it's one of the leading causes for filing disability in this country. Um, and we're finding that cannabis is extraordinarily effective for treating pain. Why? Why do you want to get into the science? Well, uh, the, the, you know, just dumb it down for me. Well, so, okay. So let's take a neuropathic pain for example. Okay. So neuropathic pain is, I'm a secondary to it. Excited toxicity, right, of, of glutamate firing between your synopsis. So glutamate is overproduced and overstimulates at receptive nerve and the posts and post synaptic membrane, excuse me, in causes this pain. So it's excited. Toxicity, really excited. Toxicity, there's a lot of it are. Cannabinoids are endogenous cannabinoids and the phytocannabinoids from cannabis, um, will come in and door that excited. Toxicity. So it's a checks and balances like I described before. Um, our endogenous cannabinoids are supposed to do that on their own. Um, but we've gotten to such an imbalance that we're not able to do that, so our ecs and our bodies aren't able to facilitate that, that dampening of that signaling.

Speaker 4: So when we talk about recognized conditions in medical programs all over the country, uh, when, uh, chronic pain is obviously one that the industry is very much behind and then when we, you know, talked to people that aren't necessarily in the industry, they say, oh, chronic pain, well that's the way that you just, you know, get everybody into medical cannabis. The reason that I wanted you to explain how cannabis actually plays well for chronic pain is to kind of prove that out. Right? So thank you. You are welcome. And that is fresh

Speaker 3: trading. And then we have several states where they do have a medical marijuana program with qualifying conditions that don't include pain or even a number of other medical conditions that we actually have scientific proof that cannabis should treat those conditions. Well,

Speaker 4: just one more. Okay. Because I don't want to get too far in, but let's talk about ptsd and how cannabis place with people.

Speaker 3: Yes. Um, so I don't know why. Okay, that's honest. No, and I don't, I don't think anybody does.

Speaker 4: Hi Yet. Well, but that's also not something that you hear from doctors very often, so thank you Dr. but we know it does work well. Right.

Speaker 3: And from clinical for our anecdotal or clinical experience, we do see that cannabis best treats the most aspects of Ptsd, you know, we treat ptsd sufferers with analytics and antidepressants. Those are minor aspects of ptsd and they don't treat the whole syndrome well. Um, but we know cannabis has and I love seeing more programs. I'm adjusting their qualifying conditions to include that. Yeah,

Speaker 4: Illinois just did. And as far as information for you, Dr Seuss's Lee is working on it. Right? So we'll get there soon. Yes. Um, so, you know, now you're seeing these patients, you know, in a, you've got this, uh, this whole thing going with your sister. What, what else are you working on now? What is, what else is Dr Knox, uh, you know, in the business of doing.

Speaker 3: Yes. So the functional medicine practice that my sister and I set out to develop has changed dramatically and now my mom and dad are, are in, in the lead with us and we're, we're, we're taking on new forum. We want to be, um, endocrinologist if you will, um, cannabis specialists specifically and we want to help people heal using cannabis as a tool but also using other methods to help people heal as well. So again, in a functional medicine model, but one that includes cannabis as one of its flagship protocols.

Speaker 4: Okay. So you really are not going to get all caught up in the fact that a cannabis has a lot of great stuff going. You're going to go ahead and still continue to look at the patient as a whole person and prescribe what needs to be prescribed, even if cannabis just to

Speaker 3: vacuum, including cannabis, as wonderful as it is, you know. Um, I, I see a lot of patients over 500 patients a month through the rec writing services and consultative services that we provide for patients. And I'm, no patient is different. We about nutrition. The first time we we visit the first time

Speaker 4: because that's the whole point. Anyway, that's your whole point of I don't want to go to medical school at the doorstep of medical school, so this is your, you are fighting back as we speak every one patient at a time,

Speaker 3: but for the benefit of us all, you know, we all deserve to be, well, we don't need our doctors to be well, but we've come to a point in time where we do kind of need our doctors to help us get well again, but our approach needs to shift. I guarantee you that if we continue to provide care within the conventional framework that exists, people are going to get sicker and sicker and sicker. Um, but we're seeing reactive, right? Um, but we're seeing, we're seeing some shift. Um, you know, natural Pathi is as A. I mean, it's been in existence this whole time, but I think it's gaining popularity. Um, uh, patients are turning away from conventional outlets in seeking alternative medicines on their own and people are turning to medical cannabis. So I think that the demand is going to force a shift, you know, if we don't create the shift ourselves, that's the Mba side talking right there. Yeah. Yeah. It goes hand. It should go hand in hand. But um, but yeah,

Speaker 4: so in your mind help. I wear both hats. Yeah. Well that's it. Just off I kind of somewhat off topic a in your mind, you know, for, for if in a given week, what is it, is it 50 md, 50 Mba? Like how do you break it down and. Yeah, it's not broken down fully integrated. I sit with, this is your whole point about medicine. Why can't it be true about your intellect as well?

Speaker 3: Now? I think that is how I think, like I was telling the group of us earlier at our meeting, um, the medical market is huge. That is the market. All right? So it is both medicine and business. Um, but when you do something well and you do something that's valuable, you're Gunna reprove award, right?

Speaker 4: You can't provide value and not know, uh, or you can't provide great value consistently and not at least a little rule. Right? Yeah. Uh, alright. So we have three final questions for you. Okay. Okay. I'm going to tell you what they are and then I'll ask you them in order. The first question is, what is most surprised you in cannabis? You might've already answered that. The second is, what is most surprised you in life? For me, what has most surprised me in your life is that I get for Dr [inaudible] for the price of one a. and then the final question is on the soundtrack of your life named one track one song that's got to be on there. Yeah. So you, for some people. Oh, you already have it. Okay, good. Some people, that's the hardest question. Some people. It's the most, uh, the most simple. What has most surprised you in life? Dr Rachel Knox. Isn't that the second question? What did I say? Did I say what has most surprised you in life that cannabis? Now I don't think I messed that up before. What has most surprised you in cannabis? Now we've kind of go in order,

Speaker 3: right? Well, before I mentioned the fact that, that patients were seeking alternative, that was, that was interesting, right? Because I came from family medicine group where people are coming to a place where, you know, we're equipped to talk maybe a fraction. I'm about lifestyle and nutrition, but really in that seven to 15 minutes where we're giving them pills, we're giving them prescriptions are writing referrals to specialists. Um, and I don't know if it's because the patients don't expect anything different, but I really wasn't asked a whole lot about alternative medicines and ways to reverse things naturally in, in, in that environment. So when I started working with cannabis patients and the overwhelming sentiment was that we need something other than these medications and procedures. Um, I mean that, that astounded me, that, that floored me. Um, but I think the most surprising thing that, uh, that has come out of my study of cannabis is realizing that there is an endocannabinoid system and how, um, quite frankly, that ecs has outgrown cannabis.

Speaker 3: But you can flip it. You could say that cannabis as an industry has outgrown the ECS, um, but I'm a doctor so we're going to go with the initial former, um, but, but it has, you know, we were finding that a lot of things help improve endocannabinoid tone of there. Then cannabis in cannabis is wonderful. It does many things. One thing that I love to say to everybody is that cannabis is the one medicine that I know of that treats the physical, mental, and spiritual aspects of a person. The one thing, the one thing that I know of there certainly could be more, um, but you know, in, and certainly my, my study of natural medicine is only beginning. Um, so it's the one thing that I know of right now that can do that. And when we're really talking about healing, we cannot ignore that mental and that spiritual aspect.

Speaker 3: And what does conventional medicine do best? Ignore those two elements of health and healing. We don't teach it, we don't understand it. We certainly don't talk about it. Um, so I, I think maybe that's what's most surprised me about my journey in cannabis is, is figuring that out, um, because I knew there was something that we were missing and I do spend a lot of my time counseling about nutrition, but also about a mental and spiritual health as well, and I didn't really have that opportunity when I was in the conventional system. Um, so all of that I think that surprised me and intrigued me and motivates me to continue here. I knew it before we start. I'm damn sure of it now. So now, what has most surprised you in life who, um, oh my gosh. Maybe honestly, a similar answer. Very similar answers. Yeah. So for, for me personally, I'm recognizing that the healing of a person has to incorporate all three of those aspects has made a huge difference in my life and the experiences that I share with people, my experiences when I travel, my experiences with myself when I'm alone. I think that understanding that Trifecta, if you will, has made me a better person. Yeah.

Speaker 1: Well, you know, and if, if I've been listening, which I hope I have the whole time, meaning your life, you were looking for something and not finding it or knowing that the next thing that you were doing wasn't going to be the complete thing. It's totally accurate and it sounds like you might have found the right path here. I have a little bit of a phrase. I know that's true. Yeah. I have a little bit of a phrase that speaks to this, which is sometimes to continue on the path of least resistance. You have to run through a fucking wall.

Speaker 1: So thanks for running through the um, but we knew you were going to, when you knew you were going through the whole time, you know, where's the wall? Where's the wall? And I was looking for it. I'm ready to run through it. Yeah. Alright. So finally on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song, Prince Little Red Corvette. Oh my God, that is so good. I, it's going on in my head right now. That's a fantastic choice. Dark knocks. Thank you so much. Thank you. Said this was really a pleasure, likewise, and there you have Dr Rachel.

Speaker 2: Well, you know that's a smart person and I think we're lucky to have her in the cannabis industry and if your in the cannabis industry go to [inaudible] dot com as of July first, dominate those deserving for the best and the brightest. Get them a sledge hammer and otherwise, thanks for listening.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.