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Ep.162: Jaime Lewis, Mountain Medicine; David Hua, Meadow

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.162: Jaime Lewis, Mountain Medicine; David Hua, Meadow

Ep.162: Jaime Lewis, Mountain Medicine; David Hua, Meadow

David Hua first joins us to discuss his journey with Meadow. Jaime Lewis then returns to discuss her new role with NCIA and what she’s doing with CRCR. Two executives doing very different things of equal importance in this next great american industry. David Hua then Jaime Lewis. Enjoy

Transcript:

Speaker 3: go. Cannabis economy. That's right. It's David who was enough. Hello? Yeah. Oh good. Yeah, it was better upfront, you know, it was better clothes. You want to treat it as a loved one is really what you want to do. Okay, cool. Did I pronounce who were right? Who is great? Yeah. Where's that? Where's that come from? In the world? Chinese. Vietnamese. Okay, good. Excellent. But you were born here, grew up here, the whole thing. Oh yeah, yeah. Uh, born in Philadelphia and grew up in Philadelphia, but moved out to the bay area in 2007. So it's been a while that you've been here, but you were in Philadelphia for long enough to be a phillies fan or a flyers or an eagles fan. Yeah. It's kind of mandatory. Yeah. Or 76 ers fan. Yeah, six years. Do you remember? I. You don't? Yeah. You remember Ai?

Speaker 3: You don't remember Dr Jay? I do not remain a doctor that's too far back. Ai? Yeah. Do you remember playing Cunningham Randall Cunningham that for Randall Cunningham was probably the greatest athlete that I had ever seen at the time. Dance man. He played, uh, my giants and beat it. Seemed like they want all the time. It was the first, uh, my first brush with a little bit of Flash, a little bit of bling. What Randall Cunningham did. He was a Russian quarterback and he had gold. I'm shoelace like, like, uh, the top of your shoelace, whatever that's called. Yeah. It's usually plastic is where gold. Yeah, I mean, yeah, he deserved it is your point. Yeah. I mean we just wish we had more all stars to support him. He did everything. He was almost like a Michael Vick. Right. Like we're before Michael Vick was there, right? That's exactly right.

Speaker 3: He's Michael Vick before Michael Vick. And you did have reggie white on defense, but that was a bad gig. That's where I got what? A tank. But I don't think she'll walker. Well for a minute. I know for a minute, but you know, we had Herschel Walker and he was a beast too, but I don't, I don't think we're here to talk about. No, no sports. Yeah. So, so meadow, you know, when folks used to talk about meadow, they used to talk about delivery. Now when folks talk about meadow, they talk about patients and doctors. Yeah, so give us the overview of, of where we are in the life of meadow here in the middle of 2016. Okay. So we, we're trying to build the best technology within the cannabis industry. That's kind of our mission right now and or trying to focus on is really building up to the farmer.

Speaker 3: We started with the last mile on the delivery side and that's been going really well. We've been able to solve a ton of problems for delivery of services in terms of compliance, inventory management, patient facing. I'm ordering systems, patient verification, a encryption on their documents, all that stuff. And more recently we moved into building software for brick and mortar, dispensary's retail and they have a whole different set of challenges. Right? Right. A lot of it is ensuring that the speed of which people are coming through and being taken care of, is there a. The efficiencies are from the bud tender and the intake person a is taken care of and then we also have issues where people are looking for evaluation. So we also have the doctor service called meadow md that allows patients to do a telemedicine option with doctors are very well versed in cannabis and how it can help a myriad of diseases.

Speaker 3: I mean you can or conditions, uh, in our doctors know anything from, you know, talking about birds or a, what's a gerd it gastrointestinal problem. Oh, thank you. I'm crones, fibromyalgia, migraines. We have hospice patients, we have veterans with PTSD. It's all across the map now. So we're trying to build a platform that anybody within the, the industry, uh, or the movement can kind of plug into and work with to just run their operations, run whatever they need to run basically. But also like, you know, focusing on the compliance pieces where they don't have to worry about it. A lot of that's been built in, into the experience. So within the industry, kind of whenever David's name is mentioned or meadows name is mentioned, it is followed directly by y combinator. Really? That's what I, that's what my experiences are. Legit vc it way better.

Speaker 3: Excuse me, accelerate. It's a bunch of things. Incubator, accelerator, accelerator. I'm not a finance guy, so that's, you know, that tells you what, uh, what you need to know about me. Amazing beard. That's right. That's. I am a, I am bearded. I can see it. I can't, you are not bearded. No, I have zero facial hair. But um, you know, it's, it's a legit operation. It is not a cannabis specific, a place for anybody that knows that silicon valley. So, you know, I haven't expressed interest in wanting to know how that relationship began. Um, if they knew that your interest was in the cannabis space or refute we're just building, you know, technology and uh, you know, along with that how happy they are with the way things are going. So on the way in who, who, how did that relationship come to be? Yeah, I mean, when I first moved out to California in 2007, I would love to have been in y combinator.

Speaker 3: go. Cannabis economy. That's right. It's David who was enough. Hello? Yeah. Oh good. Yeah, it was better upfront, you know, it was better clothes. You want to treat it as a loved one is really what you want to do. Okay, cool. Did I pronounce who were right? Who is great? Yeah. Where's that? Where's that come from? In the world? Chinese. Vietnamese. Okay, good. Excellent. But you were born here, grew up here, the whole thing. Oh yeah, yeah. Uh, born in Philadelphia and grew up in Philadelphia, but moved out to the bay area in 2007. So it's been a while that you've been here, but you were in Philadelphia for long enough to be a phillies fan or a flyers or an eagles fan. Yeah. It's kind of mandatory. Yeah. Or 76 ers fan. Yeah, six years. Do you remember? I. You don't? Yeah. You remember Ai?

Speaker 3: You don't remember Dr Jay? I do not remain a doctor that's too far back. Ai? Yeah. Do you remember playing Cunningham Randall Cunningham that for Randall Cunningham was probably the greatest athlete that I had ever seen at the time. Dance man. He played, uh, my giants and beat it. Seemed like they want all the time. It was the first, uh, my first brush with a little bit of Flash, a little bit of bling. What Randall Cunningham did. He was a Russian quarterback and he had gold. I'm shoelace like, like, uh, the top of your shoelace, whatever that's called. Yeah. It's usually plastic is where gold. Yeah, I mean, yeah, he deserved it is your point. Yeah. I mean we just wish we had more all stars to support him. He did everything. He was almost like a Michael Vick. Right. Like we're before Michael Vick was there, right? That's exactly right.

Speaker 3: He's Michael Vick before Michael Vick. And you did have reggie white on defense, but that was a bad gig. That's where I got what? A tank. But I don't think she'll walker. Well for a minute. I know for a minute, but you know, we had Herschel Walker and he was a beast too, but I don't, I don't think we're here to talk about. No, no sports. Yeah. So, so meadow, you know, when folks used to talk about meadow, they used to talk about delivery. Now when folks talk about meadow, they talk about patients and doctors. Yeah, so give us the overview of, of where we are in the life of meadow here in the middle of 2016. Okay. So we, we're trying to build the best technology within the cannabis industry. That's kind of our mission right now and or trying to focus on is really building up to the farmer.

Speaker 3: We started with the last mile on the delivery side and that's been going really well. We've been able to solve a ton of problems for delivery of services in terms of compliance, inventory management, patient facing. I'm ordering systems, patient verification, a encryption on their documents, all that stuff. And more recently we moved into building software for brick and mortar, dispensary's retail and they have a whole different set of challenges. Right? Right. A lot of it is ensuring that the speed of which people are coming through and being taken care of, is there a. The efficiencies are from the bud tender and the intake person a is taken care of and then we also have issues where people are looking for evaluation. So we also have the doctor service called meadow md that allows patients to do a telemedicine option with doctors are very well versed in cannabis and how it can help a myriad of diseases.

Speaker 3: I mean you can or conditions, uh, in our doctors know anything from, you know, talking about birds or a, what's a gerd it gastrointestinal problem. Oh, thank you. I'm crones, fibromyalgia, migraines. We have hospice patients, we have veterans with PTSD. It's all across the map now. So we're trying to build a platform that anybody within the, the industry, uh, or the movement can kind of plug into and work with to just run their operations, run whatever they need to run basically. But also like, you know, focusing on the compliance pieces where they don't have to worry about it. A lot of that's been built in, into the experience. So within the industry, kind of whenever David's name is mentioned or meadows name is mentioned, it is followed directly by y combinator. Really? That's what I, that's what my experiences are. Legit vc it way better.

Speaker 3: Excuse me, accelerate. It's a bunch of things. Incubator, accelerator, accelerator. I'm not a finance guy, so that's, you know, that tells you what, uh, what you need to know about me. Amazing beard. That's right. That's. I am a, I am bearded. I can see it. I can't, you are not bearded. No, I have zero facial hair. But um, you know, it's, it's a legit operation. It is not a cannabis specific, a place for anybody that knows that silicon valley. So, you know, I haven't expressed interest in wanting to know how that relationship began. Um, if they knew that your interest was in the cannabis space or refute we're just building, you know, technology and uh, you know, along with that how happy they are with the way things are going. So on the way in who, who, how did that relationship come to be? Yeah, I mean, when I first moved out to California in 2007, I would love to have been in y combinator.

Speaker 3: I wasn't unfortunately, but I had a lot friends that were companies that were started like weebly, Xobni, dropbox, read it. Uh, I mean these are guys that have been, you know, now they look like they're really successful, but five, seven years later it takes a long, you know, it takes time. And so I met a lot of entrepreneurs that have gone through the program, the advocate for it and have kind of taught us like, all right, this is something that we should apply to again or eventually. Um, and we did that with meadow, so it was February 22nd 2014, I went to Oaksterdam, Oaksterdam, if for the people that don't know is a university run by people within the industry, but also advocates. So people that have been pretty much hands in, feed on the line, uh, advocating for change on the medical side and the legal side.

Speaker 3: And uh, if you want to pause this, go back, listen to the Dale Sky Jones interview and then the Jeff Jones interview if you'd like. Yeah. Has. And now that company. Oh sure. Oh that's just, that's just the tip of the iceberg. I'm honored. But what did you take away from Oaksterdam? Yeah. Um, they are legends. That's exactly goldsberry to have her on the way I've been emailing with her and texting. She's close. She was actually one of the biggest sparks to start meadow. I'm no why? Well, because the day to day of her operation at Magnolia, she's one of the founders of bpg, but it just seemed a problematic last steps. Things were manual as analog. I get a lot of this stuff that they were trying to do was keep it within their shop. They're not trying to put on the cloud. Right. Well, as it had to be analyzed originally.

Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah. And so we saw a really big opportunity to start building tools for the space because we saw a lot of frankensteined approaches and what kind of sucked was the providers were almost discriminatory against them. They would shut them down, they wouldn't answer any customers of poor tickets. It was like you had to hide who you were using a service for what you need. Um, so we started building meadow and we also started building it for patients, people that wanted reliable an on demand experience. And let, let me just stop you because we did skip over Oaksterdam. What did you take out a hoaxster damn. What were the lessons learned there as far as what would be needed? Yeah, so I think the, the compliance pieces were important, um, because we heard from Jeff Jones, we heard from Debbie, we heard from Lauren Vasquez, um, we heard from Chris Conrad, I mean everybody, it just an all star lineup.

Speaker 3: So we really kind of started understanding the context of what we're operating in, but also really put a compassion and the patient focus piece because it wasn't for us just to make money or we're not in it to make money. We're in it to actually help these operators further what they're trying to do, but also make the patient experience way more clean and secure and reliable. Uh, so we started working on this idea. We saw Robert [inaudible]. He's a lawyer that I recommend a lot of people check out if you're looking at getting in. So a June first we started working on the first line of code is written in 2014. Then we got, we submitted our apps to the APP store, so we were working on Ios and android at the time. Uh, we got denied back and forth, back and forth. Then it's September, now we have nothing to show because the, because you got rejected because we got rejected a hard to.

Speaker 3: It was just like, Oh yeah, sure, that's a hard or no. So, and then we're like, all right, so let's go web. And we built get meadow.com, which is essentially a directory service for a lot of collectives that we work with that we vetted that we believe have quality products, really treat their patients right and have an attention to detail in terms of operational expertise. Uh, so this was October 13th, 14th. We got out or we launched it and then we applied to y combinator in November and then they were like, sure, let's do an interview. So we got the interview. Uh, it was the most dense 10 minutes of questioning I've ever had in my life with me and my co founders. Uh, there's four of us. We all worked together previously at another startup. Um, I think what's great is it's myself and three of my really good friends and they're all engineers.

Speaker 3: I'm not the technical guy, I love that love tech, but I'm not the technical guy so we don't need you for that. No, we don't, but we have a good balance and in y combinator is a lot about the technical side. So we were able to bridge a lot of this domain expertise with the engineering product and um, yeah. And then why came when y combinator said? Yeah, sure. Well, let's get into that dense questioning. What do you remember that they asked and what were your answers as much as you can share? Sure. Um, so I think you have to keep in mind when y combinator is doing interviews, they're seeing hundreds of companies, thousands of applications, and these applications are best in class. I don't think that people take this, uh, application process lightly. So you're in a room with about two to four interviewers, a, these are all partners.

Speaker 3: So, uh, and that, that time they're really trying to figure out what are you doing, uh, who's the team, who are you, who is the team and, and whether or not this tackle a big enough problem, uh, or can be a big enough problem later and they're, they have an uncanny ability of doing that, of sorting out what they want and we got in. So the questions, I mean, they go from what are you building, what your team, when, what do you see for the vision of your product? What's your traction right now? Um, how do you see the world in what you're trying to build? Because I think a lot of times we're thinking about building the future. We want to see, uh, and we're, we're almost at the edge with tech, you know, people are coming, adopting those behaviors and interfaces. Absolutely. Our society has, will been changed.

Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Uh, and sometimes you're adopting to already behaviors that are there. In our case, at the time it was the on demand economy, right? There was a lot of investment going into the space. You could get on demand. Anything in the bay area you can get on demand dog cleaning, sure. Walking, you can get food, multiple options for food, um, and you should get cannabis. So we, we really targeted that, but we had a broader vision of building a more pieces of the supply chain around cannabis. The cannabis. Absolutely. Well, how, what, what did they say in that initial meeting, if anything, about the fact that you're talking about cannabis? Uh, yeah, I mean we've really talked. We had a one of the lawyers in a, so it wasn't just a partner. We had a lawyer to lawyer, which is rare. You don't get that.

Speaker 3: Um, so we vetted out a bunch of the compliance pieces, uh, the fact that we don't touch the cannabis, we're really a technology later helped a lot. Um, but our willingness to really work with the partners and understand it was something that they liked a lot too. Um, but I think overall they liked the team. I think a cannabis was incidental essentially. Can I. This was addressed the big market change that was about to happen and I think that that's A. Yc is incredibly good at, they can see where things are going or can believe in a, an entrepreneur or founder that the world is going to be the way they are because we need to shape this world of how we think things are in the environment that's changing and the legal and regulatory pieces and mean in cannabis was on this a positive trend.

Speaker 3: It wasn't, you know, that curve. But it was an area that continues to open up and I also think that it's the right thing to do. Right. Cannabis just like that. They thought it was writing, so I don't know what they thought at that time. It was 2014. This is before, um, you know, uh, this is right before the votes. Maybe they did see the votes in Colorado, in Washington, you know, we told you about that stuff too. But, but you know, and okay, here comes a change maybe, but it seems like it would have been a long time. It seems like it would have been early still. So they were impressed enough at that moment. Lucky us. Yeah. Yeah. So then once you get in and they said yes, then they soaked. Did they say yes with a caveat from the lawyer or was it just a Yo, we got, yes, we got the yes.

Speaker 3: So you get a phone call and we got a phone call that same day and said you're in and uh, you know, the, the cool thing is when you go through y combinator, you real quickly realize that getting into means nothing. It's all about what you're building a, making something that people want, staying lean, you know, going back to the startup principles on how you should be building a because this stuff takes time, uh, that Justin TV took seven years which then became twitch, which then got bought by Amazon. So you realize that this is just the beginning of the journey and you really need to like get your chemistry right with your founders, build the right product and continue to iterate. And it was helpful. I see that with another group of hundred, 300 plus entrepreneurs. It was a huge class. Three hundred plus. Yeah, I mean there was like 100 plus companies and a 300 plus entrepreneurs.

Speaker 3: What did you, obviously you took away so much for the platforms sake, you know, we'll get to your kind of thoughts and learnings as a person, but for the platform Sake, how much did it change from day one to last day of class type of thing? Interesting. So y combinator is three month program, um, and it culminates on Demo Day. So Demo Day is a group of investors that get to see all of these pitches from hundred plus companies got like two and a half minutes to really pitch. So it's, it's, uh, it's really quick. It goes by like that. And so, um, the way you know, what we got from it was a real attention to the metrics on what's really driving your business or what's driving your product. I'm really trying to cut the BS on excuses of not getting there. Right? You want more sales? Well, how many people did you talk to?

Speaker 3: Well, you want more growth. Well, what did you do to get that growth? Did you stay in your apartment all day long? Where did you go and talk to, you know, your, your customers, your patients, your users, give me, give me facts based on actions and what's crazy is like these guys are the law of the partners are former operators or sold something. They are very successful in their own right. So they can see through all of the excuses that typical entrepreneur makes themselves or you know, creates this universe of denial of what they're doing. They can break through it. All right. Um, and so we took that. We took the ability of really, it's so simple. They say this all the time. It's their mantra and make something that people want really simple. Well, what is really hard to do? What does that mean to you now that we've now that you know what they mean?

Speaker 3: What mean? We're still trying to figure that out. I mean, I think, um, what we're finding is you really want to have. I'd rather have a thousand people that love the product than 10,000 people that are just whatever. Okay. That like, if we ended our journey tomorrow, yeah, they would not be upset, but the thousand people would be super upset. Right. I think it's really been ingrained in their fabric of how they, uh, how they, uh, run on their day to day, uh, in, in cannabis for us. A lot of it doesn't necessarily define who we are, it's just a part of who we are. How do you mean? Well, I think like there's some people out there that could be like, oh, I'm, I'm all about cannabis and this is all I do and this is the little smoke, smoke, smoke, like, you know, um, and then there's others people will have to Dab of course as well if your dad.

Speaker 3: Well, the, you're, that's what you're talking about is my point. Here's my, here's my bonafide days of being a cannabis person type. I just think we're more than just what we do, right? It's like what you like. Some people do it, um, smoke cannabis to, to, right. Some people write to, to relax, some people want it to do, to alleviate pain and like generate appetite. So it's just a part of your life, it doesn't necessarily define who you are. Um, although I think if you are part of the cannabis movement and have consumed, you're already in my mind that solid know it's just a positive tag your at least you're open. Yeah. Right. Um, and I'm just so super thankful and I, I my co founders or agree that we're fortunate to have yc is open enough to welcome this and yeah. Alright. So, so big huge learnings, uh, as far as a project kind of did speak about it, but personally speaking, coming out of it, what do you do now that you didn't do before or what don't you do now that you did do before?

Speaker 3: During the program? Either way? Yeah. Good now versus then. Sure. I mean learnings from there. I think one of the biggest things I've taken away is just how grateful I am for my co founders. It really is a team effort and going through that program is pretty intense, right? You're really put with a lot of pressure to perform and I am fortunate enough to feel like we've done that. We did everything we needed to do and we came out of it stronger. Um, one thing that we've taken away is to really be, uh, you know, we do like a founders meeting every week. We do ways just keep communication open. We really check in on one another, not just in what we're doing, but emotionally how, how are feeling, what's going on because we got to take care of each other, right? If we don't communicate and communicate.

Speaker 3: So, you know, for any of people out there building, you know, I would really focus on taking care of your team and your founders and all of that because you're leaning on each other. Like not everyone's going to be 100 percent all time when everyone is 100 percent. Oh, that's amazing. Like you can really get some great things done, but it's oftentimes not like that. No. So that's one big takeaway I would say it team is, starts with team. Uh, what we don't have a ton of time. And so I want to make sure to, to zero in on safe patient access because we talk about that often and that kind of is where you are in right now. So talk about that a little bit from the meadow perspective. Sure. I'm mean before meadow, how I would get my medicine, I would either go to the shops, um, or how I get my recommendation.

Speaker 3: I go to like an area of town and I don't necessarily want to be in or I have to take, you know, 45 minutes out of my lunch break to go do something on the off chance that it might get the recommendation. It's just a lot of stuff. So we try to just remove the friction. Uh, so patient access to us means that you get the information you need, you're educated on what you're trying to treat a and then you have services or collectives that you can order from that will supply you with something that is customized for you or you know, that I have an idea for. Um, so, and it's reliable like, and it's safe and it's all the things that you would expect it to be in any kind of experience. Right? Yeah. And I think that oftentimes we were all coming from different backgrounds.

Speaker 3: We're all coming from different places. Everyone has had a different experience on where cannabis has affected them. Um, I was part of the dare generation, right? So we were told and it was pounded our brain just say no, just say no. Yeah. Uh, so we're dealing with that or you have people that are older, 55 plus I've been through the sixties, but then had this huge prohibition pushed on in this war on drugs and they're, they don't know where they're talking about and what's going on. So you have to make it approachable. You have to make it safe, you have to make it secure. Those are things that we think a lot about in patient access because then they can come forward and you kind of meet them halfway. Last question before the three final questions. Three final question. Oh, sure. Yeah. But this is the one before you do like three final questions every time. Every time. Weird. Yeah. All right, cool. Uh, David clearly will become a listener after that.

Speaker 4: I'm so sorry. We met me today other days ago at this conference. He's like, Hey, I'm. This is. Howdy. Hey. All right. I'm down. As far as where

Speaker 3: you're going, where do you, you know, if prognosticating the future is a big part of being successful in business. Yeah. What's on the horizon? We've got a big election day no matter what happens with this state legal, that state, legal, whatever. Where do you think this whole thing is going? Kind of like 20 slash 20 vision. Where do you see this? I mean it starts to California. I in my mind, right? The where the next level is. I think that Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Alaska, they've done an amazing job at showing success and giving us clues on what to do. That's what Gavin Newson was talking about yesterday, which I thought was pretty on point. I like where he's thinking there. Um, but California, I mean, we, we need to move forward to show the country in the rest of world is going on. Um, I also believe that really starts with the farmer, right?

Speaker 3: And the cultivator, the breeder, and we've been doing for a very long time. We are the biggest agricultural state. We have an amazing group of people that know what they're doing. Generations, generation, seriously. It's insane. I'm just meeting these, uh, these cultivators, these farmers are, I think a big piece and I think it's really, really, really, really, really, really, really important to focus on small business and medium sized businesses and creating jobs and not really trying to open it up for huge [inaudible], you know, monopolies. I think, um, we have such a cool opportunity of building like a craft type of a craft cannabis, um, where it already exists, but we're just making it better for everybody. More approachable and accessible. There we go. So I love the vision. The three final questions are, I'll tell you what they are and then I'll ask you them in order. Wish I knew beforehand, what has most surprised you in cannabis? What surprised me in cannabis most? What has most surprised you in life? That's the second question. And then the third question, final question is on the soundtrack of your life, what does one track, one song that's got to be on there? But first things first, what has most surprised you in cannabis?

Speaker 3: Uh, I feel like I found my tribe, right? I feel like I've personally, I've been a part of a lot of different companies and a lot of different communities and industries. Um, everything from Wall Street to music to health and gifting. I've been all over, but cannabis, I just feel like I found people that get me, I get them and we vibe on a whole nother level that believes in the plant, but also wants to make an impact on the world and share it with everybody because that's the cool thing, right? It's not just we enjoy it. We want to bring everyone all along. We went, hey, come on in. The water's great. That surprised me the most. I didn't feel like I would have this much affinity for what I'm doing. Then when we first started, a lot of this, we're just trying to figure out what we wanted to do with their lives, something that we could put a lot of time in and you know, I could see myself in this for a very long time.

Speaker 3: So you were building a product and you found a community? Yeah, there we go. Yeah. That's cool. What has most surprised you in life, David? Um, I, you know, one thing, it's just like the more I learn, the more I feel like I don't know, it just. Yeah. So I find like I'm finding to shedding ego is a big one. Sure. Like if you can just kind of remove ego, it allows you to open up a whole nother world of possibilities and it allows you to learn. And exactly. And especially in this space, I feel like the learning curve is as much as being a new dad, it just, it's super steep, supersede it. Uh, it gives definition to the, a Bob Dylan quote. I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now. Right. I used to know so much more than I do now. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: So, uh, to that end please, uh, on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on their, a pearl jam given to fly. So this is a, that makes us the same age if you're, if you're giving us a pearl jam song, do you approach? And it's amazing. Are you kidding me? I am not, I just, there's people out here that never heard of Pearl Jam. You need to like they are on that. They are under 30 who they would be. Yeah, sure. Dude, anybody over 30 would know that Pearl Jam dude by technology is there. Just get that on it. I'm excited for you. Are. There you go. If you haven't heard of them, I'd be nuts. David Hula. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah, appreciate that.

Speaker 1: This episode is also supported by hoping and hoping to fuel is the nation's original cannabis business law firm since 2008 established in Colorado. They've since expanded into 13 states, Central America and Puerto Rico. They service industrial, hemp regulated marijuana and ancillary businesses hoping to feel is truly a one stop shop for cannabis businesses. They focus on regulatory compliance to General Business Council services, including M and a capital raise, patent trademark, Ip law and complex litigation. They have lawyers in house who can serve all business needs. Go to hoping and [inaudible] dot com for more info. So here we have Jamie Lewis, who I, I mean, I don't know if you want to let folks know where you are in the world if you've got a James Bond type thing going on, you know, like you said, are very hard woman to track down these days. Is that right?

Speaker 5: I would say that my schedule is not for the faint of heart, that's for sure.

Speaker 3: So what I would say. So where would you tell us you are?

Speaker 5: I am currently sitting in the lovely city of Boston, located in the great state of Massachusetts. That's a, a lovely breezy spring day here. Actually.

Speaker 1: Are you or are you not on cannabis business in Massachusetts?

Speaker 5: I am on cannabis business and as we all know, I only ever travel for cannabis business these days. So

Speaker 1: what, uh, what can you tell us? What can you tell us about what Jamie Lewis

Speaker 2: is doing in Massachusetts as far as cannabis is concerned

Speaker 5: for those that may or may not be aware, I was very actively involved in the application process the first time, um, through the state and my former company and myself, we did not make it through, so for whatever strange and peculiar reason I have found myself back here again going for three licenses. So we are currently in the application process as it stands. Um, they have sections it out into three phases and we are currently in the third phase right now. So we're, we're in the siding profile phase, so I have been actively involved out here since June of last year. Uh, working with the amazing not for profit that we have set up as a team, as mayflower medicinals and I am honest, the chief operational officer for the company as it stands. So we've been out here looking for locations and filing applications is the department has allowed us to through the phases.

Speaker 2: Excellent. Okay. So this is real time, you know, information on what's happening in Massachusetts. You are applying for a license, so we love that phase three of three. Mayflower in Massachusetts can't go wrong,

Speaker 5: can't go wrong, can't go ranting. I'm picturing tapestries and gold in the design of my dispensary just for just in case anybody's carrying more time. I think I missed that. What'd you say? I'm going for the royal blues and golds to really spice up the mayflower design in these dispensary's. Once we pass the phase three and get ready to jump into the design element. So, uh, I'm, I'm going straight Bostonian with my design here. Yes.

Speaker 2: Straight Bostonian. How, how do you, how do you have the right. What kind of Bostonian bonus days do you think you asked?

Speaker 5: Well, I can honestly tell you that I'm completely surprised to be sitting in Massachusetts because as most people know, I am a California girl, so I know and I've always said that relocating to Denver, I would always come back for the legalization in California and life being what it is and this marijuana industry being what it is things are ever changing. And I've remained extremely plastic so it does look like I need to go just a few states further east before I can circle back west. So yeah, I could say what makes me a Bostonian is, you know, I've been dealing with this state since 2012, 2013. So, um, I'm getting used to. And when I say used to not fucking really, but I'm trying to get used to the winters out here. There a little brutal. Yeah. Brutal.

Speaker 2: Well, yeah. And you know, so northeast I can, I can help you there is different than a northern California. It's different than, than Colorado certainly. Um, you know, so yeah, it's a, it's a whole different thing that you're dealing a whole different ball of wax. But knowing that you've been dealing in the area, probably shouldn't use that word. Uh, operating in the area for since 2012. Knowing that the cannabis years, our dog years, it's been over 20 years,

Speaker 5: been in the Boston area. So it has been in men for some reason. I'm still having a hard time pronounciating things the way they do here. They have a, they have a different dialect. I speak fluent California Hillbilly and um, that doesn't translate too well with the Bostonian accent and the way things are spelled here are not the way they are

Speaker 2: pronounced. Right? No, it's not worth chester. That is not where you go. You go to what's that?

Speaker 5: And it's not p body, but it's pity. Which

Speaker 2: there's no, I just, I feel like I want you to know I just got corrected by a room full of Bostonians that I still don't say peabody right at all. I feel like it's like France, you know, they, they almost don't want you to try, you know what I mean? Just the way we know that you're not from here, that type of thing. Well I think they liked the constant beating up of people who are not from here. So I think if I even were to say it correctly, they would still remind me that I'm saying it incorrectly. Years. Y'All should have seen the room light up right there. They were pointing fingers and screaming at me, so I still don't have it. Right. That's fine. That's fine. And maybe we can get some commentary from the gallery later, but, uh, uh, as, uh, I think, uh, I think there's a thesis there, the similarities between Persians and Bostonians there. There's something there. Very true. I think that's very true actually. It's a good analogy. Yeah. I think for reasons would be appalled by the, uh, by the coupling. But, um, but okay, so that's, you and Madison choose. It's, you also have a new position, if I'm not mistaken. And, uh, in the National Cannabis Industry Association, is that not right?

Speaker 5: It is, right. I was appointed the chair of Ncia. Um, I am the first female that has had the great honor of being the chair of the National Cannabis Industry Association. I was nominated back in June or July of last year, so I've had a, a few months, um, to get my feet wet in that position. And it was a great honor to be nominated by the board for that obviously a huge honor.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And it, uh, you know, it puts front and center the fact that, uh, people, people really like Jamie Lewis. I think that that's what that says, is

Speaker 5: that, what that says, that I know, um, I've been told that once or twice, but, um, I, uh, I am definitely supported my, uh, cannabis colleagues in this industry, which is a huge honor. I mean, it's, there you go.

Speaker 2: Well, what is the chair role? I mean, you know, this is, I think and CBE is, are you taking, right? He, he was the chair to at least at one point. I don't know if he was the most recent chair, but what are they asking you to do? What do you need to do is the chair,

Speaker 5: you know, what I've been focusing on, um, for in CIA is keeping the conversations going around the need for lobbying representation at the federal level and a lot of the conversations have been swayed towards this dea schedule versus reschedule conversation, which in my opinion as well as many of the board's opinion is just how important it is that we keep our presence known at the capital. Um, I also am very honored to be involved in it during this time, specifically as it comes around to 2016 with all the elections coming forward as well as all of the states moving forward with their various either legalization ballot initiatives or their push for medical as a whole. So we've had some very exciting conversations around that as well. Some of the other things that, that I do is I constantly talk about how important in CIA is on an industry level that if anybody is at all even involved in the littlest way with this industry, they should be members of NCI.

Speaker 5: So I certainly focus on help driving the membership. And then something interesting to point out is, you know, back in November and December of last year, I took it upon myself to really urge in CIA to allow me to share and create a edibles council. Um, mainly because we are having such a hard time. I'm on the edible side in the state of Colorado and I'm just, you know, in hindsight being 20 slash 20, we should have started this committee or this council years ago. But the goal behind this council is to coke collaborate with CRC are, which Steve Fox is obviously, I'm one of the directors of, um, in terms of drafting a sort of conceptual document that we're going to push forward through the industry on what we want to see the standards be for packaging and labeling going forward. And that covers everything from the flower to the concentrate to the edibles as well as the topicals.

Speaker 5: And it's been a really amazing process and through this process, and I do hope you can help me get the word out on this is we have, we've created the committee, we had 12 industry members and then we had 12 outside experts, um, you know, people who have worked in FDA regulations that dealt with packaging as well as some people from the Pharmacopia side, some doctors and those that work in the pieces and the testing elements of things. And we've been utilizing them to help us sort of, not reinvent the wheel, but sort of guide us in terms of what this is going to look like at a federal level when it actually gets recognized at a federal level so that we're prepared. But some of the things that we've been pushing the envelope on is the child resistant packaging for edibles. Is that something that the industry sees as a necessity or more of a best business practice dosage and serving size have come up in these conversations.

Speaker 5: So what we've done is we've had our last meeting actually as of two weeks ago for this, um, packaging and labeling committee separate from the NCIA council that's been created and what we're gonna do is take all of these comments and create a survey and then this survey is going to be released through in CIA so that all the industry can have a say. So in terms of what they think are best business practices and things that need to be mandated or decided through a regulatory process. Um, so it's been very exciting actually to, to be a part of that.

Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely. That is something that is, you say, as you said, it should have been done, uh, you know, uh, many moons ago, but the fact that it's happening now is good. Um, and you, you mentioned all the main, you know, issues, their packaging, dosage, et cetera. How are the folks that are not on the committee that are in packaging, uh, that are, you know, in edibles, how are they reacting to, to your efforts?

Speaker 5: You know, we have been having a conversation around this happening and we just finished the document that now we are preparing the survey for. So the survey hasn't been released through NCI yet. Our goal is to have this survey ready to go within the next few weeks by the end of the month at the latest so that we can get strong feedback from the industry. So we'll see. I mean, I'm really curious to see what my colleagues think. I'm in terms of, you know, I'm, I've been operating in the state of Colorado for so long now that I've sat through several regulatory rule making processes and I've heard time and time again that it's the education to the consumer and the patient around safe storage of this product that is the most important piece, not so much what we put on the labels are how we package it. So I've really tried to push the envelope and the sense of, you know, is child resistant packaging necessary and I really know what I'm saying that I'm really pushing that envelope pretty far right now because as a whole on the committee it did seem like they were more in favor of child resistant packaging.

Speaker 5: So we'll know once we released the survey out to the masses and I do hope that everybody takes the time. We've been very cautious to not make it a 30 page survey. We basically just took the hot, the hot points that we couldn't come to decisions on and are going to pass those over to the industry to really help us decide where, where it falls, where the majority of falls in all of this. So we'll see. I mean, we're going to see. We'll see what the response is.

Speaker 2: I'm, I am really interested to hear, uh, what, what happens, uh, you know, we have this wonderful industry of um, you know, people, uh, that all are very independent. So I wonder what your feedback is going to be. Um, I, I think that everybody knows that something needs to be done and you're doing it. So hopefully we can start from that point as opposed to any other points. Does that makes sense?

Speaker 5: It does make sense. And really the goal of all of this is look wherever the decisions lie and I, if I'm the minority on child resistant packaging or others are on other topics, the real goal of this is that we all start speaking the same language so that as we maneuver through all these different states, like we all are. I mean, I own a company in Colorado and I'm currently going for licenses and Massachusetts. It would be really, it would be an amazing thing for all of us to be able to operate under the same umbrella so that our procedures and our sop, yes, and, and the way we operate our companies as a whole can be consistent across the board. So regardless of whether or not I get kicked in the face about, you know, having to continue with child resistant packaging for my beautiful edibles that I've been creating for all these years that I now have to shove into these very tacky bottles.

Speaker 5: Um, that's okay. As long as we're all speaking that language and so that we can have some sort of consistency around all of this is really what, what I'm hoping will come out of this and that it's something that the industry, because we are asking their opinions and taking their feedback very seriously will feel like they had an active voice in some of these other committees that have started or have tried in the past. They've been very proprietary and very closed door about their decision making. And what they think is best for the industry and very few of these councils and committees that have been put together have been so diplomatic in the sense that we were very clear that we wanted 12 actual operators in the industry that work in regulated states. So we have people from all over the country on our board representing what it's like to operate and all these different states so we could get all these different opinions to help guide the conversation.

Speaker 2: Great. Yeah, no, absolutely. In that a, it is so important because as we mentioned, a Massachusetts people aren't like a California or Colorado people. The Colorado cannabis industry is completely different than the northern California cannabis industry. Absolutely. Etc. Etc. Etc. So that's great to hear that you have kind of a, you know, across the country representation. You did mEntion the fact that you're working hand in hand with steve and sees a crc are what, what, what is the relationship there? What are you doing with, uh, with, with that group?

Speaker 5: So what has happened is through the edibles council and through crc are, we have created a committee. So we have 12 represents representatives from in the cia and steve fox and his team were kind enough to collaborate to bring in 12 non cannabis, um, colleagues to sort of guide this process. So it's a coke collaborated effort right now between ncia and crc are where we have created a standard packaging and labeling committees. So we have, we have Jordan, wellington and chloe grossman who has been amazing to help us with this project as well as Andrew Livingston and then the 12 members of, um, the industry as well as the 12 non members of the industry to guide this conversation for us to create this document.

Speaker 2: Twelve is such a biblical number.

Speaker 5: I know, right? It's sad. We should have went for 13. That just would have been more fitting I think.

Speaker 2: Well that's a baker's dozen, right? Exactly. Exactly. All right. So you, and then you mentioned your, your, um, your, your business and in Colorado we have to talk about mountain medicine. What's the latest, how's it going? Things are going really well.

Speaker 5: Well, I, um, I've, uh, I've got my loving porcelain goat with me at all times. You were kind enough to snap a celebrity photo with my goat. I really appreciate that. We have been preparing and working really hard on creating what I think will probably be one of my most well designed and well crafted menus. To date I had spent a ton of time with my new assistant chef as well as my executive chef in the kitchen to pull in that rts and culinary. I'm a talent that I have because I do have that culinary background and really trying to focus on locally sourced ingredients and really trying to push the envelope around what can be an edible going forward. And unfortunately we have also, or fortunately we have also been working on the new marking and stamping of things going forward. So the goal is to have that prepared by late spring, early summer for a new menu launch, which I'm really excited about.

Speaker 5: I mean, we've created some pretty unique products. Um, a lot of what we've seen in the past from edibles companies and even myself included, is a real drive towards fatty, sugary chocolate's really is what we see a large percentage of the edibles on the market to be and I have really pushed that envelope to try to come up with things that are creative and really focusing on that culinary background that I have as well as my team has to sort of push the envelope in terms of what we can bring to the market. So I'm pretty excited about that. I also, just as an fyi, I have worked really hard on changing the logo.

Speaker 2: Do you want it to do that? So you are working on.

Speaker 5: I am. I have though. I love my current mountain goat. I have decided to change it and it is a dramatic, dramatic change from what my mountain goat looks like currently. And I'm really excited about it. I mean in the beginning stages that mountain goat was very symbolic of where we were and now I have created a more demanding, more, um, present dominating mountain goat that I'm pretty proud of. So you'll, you'll see it when it, when it comes out, I'm pretty excited about it actually.

Speaker 2: When is a, do you have a date? Certain

Speaker 5: we're going to shoot for, um, summer. We're gonna shoot for somewhere around that first week of summer. Um, we do seasonal menus, so we just, we just unleashed our spring menu. Um, so for our summer menu, the goal is, is to have both the new branding as well as the new menu. I'm out in Colorado both on the medical and the recreational side. And just as a little tidbit, I'm also thinking about changing the name up a little bit on the recreational side, having a little bit more fun with that goat. So, um, I'm reallY excited about it. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Well we will stay tuned. I like how you, uh, your word choice in unleashing the menu unleashed the spring menu. You did mention stamping and you know, you, you kind of said that your interest in being on this council to begin with was based on what was happening in Colorado. Give us a sense for those that are operating outside of Colorado about the stamping and what is happening there with those regulations.

Speaker 5: So as it stands right now, I'm in october of 2016, all edibles manufacturers in the state of Colorado, both on the recreational side as well as the medical side. We'll have to mark their products. So the act they actually have to mark or stamp their food products, the individual units. Um, so if you're going to bundle 10 units per, each one of those units needs to be marked and stamped with a triangle with an exclamation in it and the letters t, h, c on it. There's a bit of a different variation between the medical and the recreational stamping, but it is going to be required in some way, shape or form. It has to be adhered to the food product so that it is easily identifiable as having thc in it when it is not in its package that it was sold in. That's really sort of the summary behind that and what we're preparing ourselves for.

Speaker 5: It's a very difficult process. I mean, as you can understand, marking and stamping of certain food products is not easy and in creating my menu for summer, I've had to let go of a few things because it's just going to be very difficult for us to stamp. now the interesting thing is that I actually sat on this work group, this, it's, you know, it's house bill 13, 66. I sat on the regulatory work group and sitting through this, there were a few things that came up that I learned waS that, you know, and I've said this several times, is that it's to prevent the accidental ingestions of products to children under the age of five. It is really an education to the patient and consumer on how they store their products. So we pushed really hard on that and pointed out that a lot of these products would be difficult to stamp. So if you have products like beverages, they just have to be sold on the recreational side, no more than eight milligrams per container. And that they do not need to be marked and stamps. So if it's impracticable to stamp, you can sell them. They just have to be at a lower dosage on the recreational side, which is something interesting.

Speaker 2: So because it's a liquid and you can't stamp it, you have to keep it under eight milligrams.

Speaker 5: that's the rules right now currently as they read.

Speaker 2: Got it. Okay. What about on the medical side?

Speaker 5: On the medical side, I'm not sure what if we're limited to a dosage because medical medical is not, um, we're not limited to the amount of thc mellow grounds, so if it's in practicable to stamp on the medical side, you can still serve your teach, see milligrams as you see fit to the patients and you don't have to stamp it, um, but it will need to come in a child resistant packaging going forward. Um, so there's a lot of difficult changes coming ahead for a lot of us and it's, it's been a grueling process. I've just been focusing on the positive side of taking this and turning it into a, you know, turning it into lemonade, so to speak, and really trying to focus on, okay, so how can I serve as the patient and consumer with some of the most creative products? Um, so What I've really done is just started to channel back in and grabbed that artist in me instead of the angry me who is just frustrated by this idea that, you know, we're talking about something that's nontoxic to humans and we're time and time again. We keep seeing these tide pods that are poisoning children, um, because they aren't packaged in child resistant containers and they're very detrimental to children. So I've let go of that

Speaker 2: three months ago because I was just going to bring that up. I feel like that is it all seriousness. I feel like that's the apples to apples comparison because, you know, uh, why would we do all of this in cannabis if those tide pods are an actual provable problem with actual stories behind it? Um, you know, I just, that doesn't it, it doesn't add up to me why we would let that argument go. Why not

Speaker 5: keep that argument, that argument in the sense that when I say I've let go of it, I've moved past it and channeled the positive creativeness to create a menu. When I speak about this publicly, I almost always refer to, we have makeup, we have tide pods and we have various other household products that are poisoning children. And when you put the numbers together, sat, then you look at all the units that have been sold recreationally in the state of Colorado. It's over 20 million units that have been sold. And when you run the numbers from the doctors hospitals in terms of accidental ingestions though extremely sad and extremely concerning to the industry. It's not even on the decimal radar when you compare it to tide pods or makeup makeup. I didn't even realize this, but makeup is very detrimental to children and it's one of the higher.

Speaker 5: It's higher up there at the from the doctors in terms of you know, accidental poisonings. So you mean two very important pieces that I continuously talk about. What are we actually trying to prevent? We're trying to prevent accidental ingeStions. we can't prevent intentional over ingestions and that's another piece I constantly bring up. so when some said reporter, I'm not mentioning her name cause I try not to give her more press than she's already gotten. Writes a story about how she intentionally ingested over her daily allotment of thc according to the package and had an uncomfortable experience that in my mind is one tacky reporting into an intentional overdosing of teach c and what we're trying to pro for events is accidental ingestions and what constantly comes back as acknowledgement and even working on this work group was that it's an education that needs to happen so that these products are stored out of the reach of children under the age of five because children under the age of five, they can't read a stamp on a product and they can't read the packaging.

Speaker 5: So the stamping of the product and the packaging is not actually for an accidental ingestion for children under the age of five. So it's this. Yeah, I mean that's what I constantly say is, you know, it's just added additional cumbersome regulations to the very small edibles manufaCtuRers that operate in the state of Colorado without any capital investment. We're constantly having to spend copious amounts of money on packaging and the changing of labels and now some of us are looking at machines to help us mark and stamp these products when we could potentially be hiring new employees or we could potentially be taking that money and channeling towards some of some of these amazing things that we've done through cba and also other things that we could do to help educate the consumers and patients on how to store these products. So all the more reason why we've started the council through crs or the council through nci as well as the committee through nci ncrc to help push this conversation forward.

Speaker 2: I love it. I love it. I think it's great and I know that it's needed based on all the conversations that I have and have had. So uh, thanks for your work there.

Speaker 5: No.

Speaker 2: hey, how's your dad?

Speaker 5: He's really good actually. He didn't get to come out for, for 20, um, but he is doing amazing and he is really excited about the potential of living in a state that is going to be legal pretty soon for him. I think that, um, that's most of our conversations lately as he constantly wants to update me on what he's been reading in California. So he's my, he's my political representation out in California,

Speaker 2: so, so he's reporting on mmr osa as well as alma.

Speaker 5: He most certainly is. And um, I, he now has access to my cc I membership so he can actually get real time information that comes in from those guys out there. They do amazing work at the State level. Um, so he's been really connected into that and um, I imagine that when it passes, there'll be some sort of a google skype hangout. We're all get to witness him smoke his first legal cannabis joints in the state of California and well deserved for my, uh, my very loving veteran father who uses cannabis for ptsd for those who don't know, but that's a, that's what seth is referring to. We have a very enduring, calm conversation about mr louis last time.

Speaker 2: There we go. Yeah, we'll, we'll cite that in the, uh, maybe in the text books. Can you go check that out? What am I missing? What else are you doing? What else are you working on? That sounds like enough.

Speaker 5: Uh, yeah, that's, that's, that's quite a bit right now. I mean, you know, where I am, a very happy with the way things are going in my life, considering I remind myself numerous times that I'm very blessed to be involved in this industry and I think you and I as well as everybody else this year is going to witness some pretty epic things happening in the policy side of things. So I'm pretty excited about that. And uh,

Speaker 2: well, what are you, what are you getting out there? What do you think? What do you mean?

Speaker 5: Well, I think that there's going to be at least California, Massachusetts, Nevada, um, potentially Vermont and possibly Maine that will go recreational this year. Um, and I think that congressionally with new leadership for our new female president, if I may plug that right now. And you all know where I stand. I do love a woman in a great pant suit. I mean, she owns that. She owns it. If you ever see me in one of those pants suits set you, uh, you should make sure I get to wardrobe immediately. I'm not so sure. I'd look so great in a pantsuit, but I'm okay.

Speaker 2: You're saying it works for her. Might not work for you.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Why not work for me? I don't know. Yeah, yeah. There's, there's no leather, there's no gold. I mean maybe if I get a leather gold pants suit that might work well for me, um, or not, or

Speaker 2: kind of, you know, with the passing of prinCe and It kind of recAlls that type of, uh, you know, that's his garb I think.

Speaker 5: I think actually that's a better way to look at it. Hillary can channel that sort of, you know, older women, well reServed conservative pant suit. But if jamie, wherever to rock a pant suit, it would be more in line with prince. That's well done. So that's well done. Actually. You know me well. So there you have david who and jimmy lewis,

Speaker 1: very much appreciated speaking with each oF those folks and um, you know, two good people here in the cannabis industry. If you are in the cannabis industry, please go ahead and nominate those deserving and can have words.com. Early bird deadline is August 1st, and whether you are or you aren't very much appreciate you listening.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.