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Ep.173: Giadha Aguirre De Carcer, New Frontier; Introview w/Alison Draisin, Ettalew’s Edibles

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.173: Giadha Aguirre De Carcer, New Frontier; Introview w/Alison Draisin, Ettalew's Edibles

Ep.173: Giadha Aguirre De Carcer, New Frontier; Introview w/Alison Draisin, Ettalew’s Edibles

Giadha Aguirre deCarcer a very impressive person indeed takes us through her journey and how she stumbled upon the need for her organization. She takes us through her diverse european background and her journey from finance to homeland security to cannabis which includes her first person account of 9/11. But first, Alison Draisin from Ettalew’s Edibles takes us through some not so great news from Washington State. While we cover some tough subject matter- to paraphrase Giadha- Hey, you’re on a rollercoaster, it’s gonna be what it’s gonna be, so you might as well enjoy the ride.

Transcript:

Speaker 2: Giadha Aguirre deCarcer. A very impressive person indeed takes us through her journey and how she stumbled upon the need for her organization. She takes us through her diverse European background and her journey from finance to homeland security to cannabis, which includes her first person account of nine slash 11, but first allison drazen from Eddie lose animals takes us through some not so great news from Washington state. So while we cover some tough subject matter to paraphrase geode, you're on a rollercoaster. It's going to be what it's going to be, so you might as well enjoy the ride. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handle can economy. That's two ends of the word economy. If have more direct communication, we would like to support the show. Feel free to send me an email. Uh, engage@Canaeconomy.com. Geode acquired decarcerate, preceded by Allison drazen. Enjoy.

Speaker 1: Right. So Allison drazen lose edibles. Allison, how are you? I'm good. How are you doing? I'm doing all right. It's been awhile. It's been awhile. But, um, you know, you're working, I'm working, you have some fun stuff going on and I mean that completely sarcastically. You operate in Washington and so yeah, five. Oh, two. How's that going? It's going slowly. Um, you know, I have a respect for the recreational market. Um, it's just been really sad to see the end of medical, uh, in Washington state. So I have also said the end of medical and, and I've been corrected in that medical continues. Why do you and I make that error?

Speaker 4: Um, because. Well, there's multiple reasons. Medical has changed from what it was prior to July. First, what is before where patients could go to a dispensary of their choice, take their recommendation and get cannabis, uh, that doesn't happen anymore. Um, first of all they have to get new recommendations, um, and they are now devised by the Department of Health and then they have to take it to a recreational store that has been medically endorsed and then they are given a choice of medically backed by the Washington state medically back products. The big problem here is, is that there are no products that are on the shelves that are medically endorsed by the state because the grower, hers weren't even allowed to start growing product until July first. So patients can get medicine, but there are no medical consultants and there's no medical cannabis in the stores.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I, I hear Ya. Uh, so, you know,

Speaker 4: so that to me, and I'm sure to you, it means that there is no medical right now, what I will say is on the recreational market, there are products that are akin to potential medically supported products and that there's like ACDC flowers, there's capsules that have high cbd the ratios, but they're, I don't know, they're not part of the old medical system so patients don't know anything about them. So if they've been, yeah, they've been taking and going to their local dispensary and getting the same capsules that work for them. Now they have to go and find something new that may or may not exist.

Speaker 1: Um, so that's fantastic. Uh, and then you, my dear, are all caught up in that, right? So lose a edibles, rolling right along in many dispensary's right. Take, take us through the lead up to July first. You were

Speaker 4: just spent all throughout the states and it was um, you know, uh, they stopped, I would say in October they put a ban on edibles and concentrates. So after a certain period of time, there was no Bho or edibles in the medical market and that I was. Now let's start working on recreational, uh, in order to get our products in market to patients or recreational users hands. And how's that going? It's going well. We're doing builds out, uh, we're working on getting our recipes together for the Department of Agriculture to review. And a good. It's good ties, just lots of work.

Speaker 2: Giadha Aguirre deCarcer. A very impressive person indeed takes us through her journey and how she stumbled upon the need for her organization. She takes us through her diverse European background and her journey from finance to homeland security to cannabis, which includes her first person account of nine slash 11, but first allison drazen from Eddie lose animals takes us through some not so great news from Washington state. So while we cover some tough subject matter to paraphrase geode, you're on a rollercoaster. It's going to be what it's going to be, so you might as well enjoy the ride. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handle can economy. That's two ends of the word economy. If have more direct communication, we would like to support the show. Feel free to send me an email. Uh, engage@Canaeconomy.com. Geode acquired decarcerate, preceded by Allison drazen. Enjoy.

Speaker 1: Right. So Allison drazen lose edibles. Allison, how are you? I'm good. How are you doing? I'm doing all right. It's been awhile. It's been awhile. But, um, you know, you're working, I'm working, you have some fun stuff going on and I mean that completely sarcastically. You operate in Washington and so yeah, five. Oh, two. How's that going? It's going slowly. Um, you know, I have a respect for the recreational market. Um, it's just been really sad to see the end of medical, uh, in Washington state. So I have also said the end of medical and, and I've been corrected in that medical continues. Why do you and I make that error?

Speaker 4: Um, because. Well, there's multiple reasons. Medical has changed from what it was prior to July. First, what is before where patients could go to a dispensary of their choice, take their recommendation and get cannabis, uh, that doesn't happen anymore. Um, first of all they have to get new recommendations, um, and they are now devised by the Department of Health and then they have to take it to a recreational store that has been medically endorsed and then they are given a choice of medically backed by the Washington state medically back products. The big problem here is, is that there are no products that are on the shelves that are medically endorsed by the state because the grower, hers weren't even allowed to start growing product until July first. So patients can get medicine, but there are no medical consultants and there's no medical cannabis in the stores.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I, I hear Ya. Uh, so, you know,

Speaker 4: so that to me, and I'm sure to you, it means that there is no medical right now, what I will say is on the recreational market, there are products that are akin to potential medically supported products and that there's like ACDC flowers, there's capsules that have high cbd the ratios, but they're, I don't know, they're not part of the old medical system so patients don't know anything about them. So if they've been, yeah, they've been taking and going to their local dispensary and getting the same capsules that work for them. Now they have to go and find something new that may or may not exist.

Speaker 1: Um, so that's fantastic. Uh, and then you, my dear, are all caught up in that, right? So lose a edibles, rolling right along in many dispensary's right. Take, take us through the lead up to July first. You were

Speaker 4: just spent all throughout the states and it was um, you know, uh, they stopped, I would say in October they put a ban on edibles and concentrates. So after a certain period of time, there was no Bho or edibles in the medical market and that I was. Now let's start working on recreational, uh, in order to get our products in market to patients or recreational users hands. And how's that going? It's going well. We're doing builds out, uh, we're working on getting our recipes together for the Department of Agriculture to review. And a good. It's good ties, just lots of work.

Speaker 1: So you have had to reinvent the brand. So you've got the brand, we know the Nice, beautiful logo and all of that, but you've had to completely change your entire, a product assortment.

Speaker 4: Well, the thing is, is on a, an older start to pass easily through the Department of agriculture process, it's easier if your product doesn't contain dairy items like milk or eggs because then it has to go through another testing review and we're trying to get on the market as quickly as possible. So we've switched over to using coconut oil and we're going to be launching with endless recipes.

Speaker 1: Okay. And, uh, take us through that, that October thing that happened. What was that again?

Speaker 4: In October, concentrates and edibles in order to make edibles, you usually need concentrates to, to, to make them. And so concentrates were no longer allowed. Roslyn and bubble hash were allowed, but not anything made with a solvent that saying with CEO two or Bho or hexane or propane. So that's kind of, that's pretty much everything. Um, uh, but, you know, there were stores that were selling stuff that they were calling rosin that you and I both know was not razah and nothing ever happened to those people.

Speaker 1: Okay. And as far as July first is concerned, like you said, there was no flower. Uh, there was nothing ready for the medical side,

Speaker 4: didn't even have the database ready until like that night for patients to use, but because there's no product, why would a patient want to go and you're turning over your recommend, you're turning over your prescription from your doctor that has the diagnosis on it, just someone who's not a medical professional. Right. And so that the state doesn't feel that medical cannabis patients should be protected by Hipaa, which is also a very interesting thing.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Well now you're getting into something that other states are dealing with as well. And we really just want to focus on Washington because you guys are so unique and wonderful.

Speaker 4: So hopefully you got it. You know. Um, my goal is, is that other states, my hope I should say other states will learn from the mistakes in Washington because we, we are the least perfect of any of the legalization we use.

Speaker 1: Yeah. You and I would agree as far as, um, as far as what the state, uh, says to you, what, how they relate to you in regards medical cannabis. Medical Cannabis does continue. What do you feel they're the point of view is, in other words, as an industry person, as someone that's producing product, what is your perception of how they view cannabis as medicine or not?

Speaker 4: Wow, that's a good question. It's really sad to me, um, that I, from my interactions with legislature and from business professionals, um, I get the sense that the state is

Speaker 4: not a big supporter of medical at all at all. Okay. Uh, it's, uh, it makes me sad to say, but I don't get, don't get the feeling, you know, I've sat in on meetings with Christie weeks and the Department of Health and um, she's just very, um, you know, like a lot of sheep believes that there's a lot of failures and doesn't seem very positive about supporting patients. Um, so, uh, to answer your question, I, I think that they would just assume not have a medical program. I feel like it was 50 slash 52 is just done to appease the system. Um, and to support the retailers

Speaker 1: to appease the system and support the retailers. Interesting. What, uh, what do you think, uh, you know about? Um, well, what stories have you been hearing about? Obviously there's been a tremendous change. Uh, the old medical shops are closed. Um, what have you been hearing about employment in cannabis in Washington?

Speaker 4: Well, I was just gonna say, um, as having been a consultant for retail, I um, they straight up said we don't want to hire medical employees because we feel that they are tainted in their perspective and we've worked really hard with our employees currently for them not to use medical terms because it is against, it is against the law as per 502 and the liquor control board's rules that a bud tenders currently are not allowed to discuss any medical conditions or issues. And so, um, I, when I was working as a consultant, I, s I kid you not, I don't want to hire people who are from medical because they feel it will just get them in trouble. It will get them into trouble. And so it's better to train someone from the get go. I'm someone who, um,

Speaker 4: is interested in learning, but uh, it's very sad that old employees are having an old employees from really great dispensary's in town, are having a very hard time finding a job that is, that's the interesting thing about all of this and, and I'm not discounting patients, but everyone's, what about the patients and the loss of medical and there's really a big loss within the industry side. Um, and the, um, the human resources side because a lot of people lost jobs, you know, uh, you have real estate that is no longer, you know, being rented that had places you had people who were growing that were, you know, creating, generating income. All of that has stopped.

Speaker 1: Yeah. It's a remarkable. It's unbelievable that these decisions have a have been made, but I guess they could have,

Speaker 4: right. You still have, you still have your elicit market or black market that is thriving and I have friends who have switched over and are just fine.

Speaker 1: Well, that's the last thing that I would want to hear you say because this is a podcast about this is a show about the legal cannabis market and what you're saying is that these actions that have been taken, I have promoted. Yeah.

Speaker 4: Yes. That's exactly what is done. The actions that it had been taken, um, had absolutely caused people to go back underground and it's just like prohibition. Two point zero.

Speaker 1: Uh, yeah. Uh, to meet the new prohibition, same as the old prohibition. I'm crazy. They're just insane.

Speaker 4: It's, it's, um, it's really, it's, it's really disturbing, you know, understand. I have a friend of mine who works counseling with patient medical patients and helping them buy products and um, she has, uh, she is moving into the recreational world, so she has had to find someone else in the community that will now be able to guide these patients through this process. Um, and it's, um, it's been very hard for a lot of people. You know, you see it, uh, in the community, people are depressed. Other other industry people are depressed or will we try and we were like, why are we so sad? And it's, it really is, it's interesting to see some people have been very angry and you see them fighting with their partners or I'm losing their temper and all those just little science that this change that's going on within the industry is, um, it's impacting everyone, not just patient.

Speaker 1: Well, let's do this, you know, what's your timeline? I know that it's, it has to do with filing and getting word back from a government officials, but what's your timeline as far as getting up and running again?

Speaker 4: I'm hoping for three months at the very least.

Speaker 1: Okay. So what we'll do is I'm going to be coming to Washington state sooner or later and uh, you and I will sit down and whether it's in that, within that three month timeframe or not, you know, whether you're up or running or not, we'll, we'll come talk to you again. Absolutely. Because, uh, it just seems like we need to pay more attention to what the hell is going on in Washington state right now.

Speaker 4: Um, I would agree and learn from our mistakes.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And just, I'm

Speaker 4: not going to ask you all three final questions because this is a quick little conversation that you and I are having, but I will ask you a to end on a lighter note on the soundtrack of Allison [inaudible] life named one track one song that's got to be on there. Um, I would say Wiz Khalifa, uh, me and my. Me and your friends, your friends, um, that has been guiding me for awhile.

Speaker 1: There we go. See, that's the answer. This is what we were looking for. Thank you. One of the, uh, one of the happiest people I know. How about that?

Speaker 4: Well, you know, cannabis helps.

Speaker 1: Cannabis does help. That's it. This is good. All right, I'll see you soon, allison. All right,

Speaker 4: take care. Thank you.

Speaker 2: This episode is also supported by Focus. Focus is working on independent and international standards while offering third party certification for cannabis businesses. The foundation of cannabis unified standards helps build your business into the best it can be. Focus is not a regulatory agency, so they don't engage in enforcement. Rather the organization has in place to help improve operational efficiencies, decrease operating expenses, and ultimately increased profit focused will help you build your business in a sustainable way, guarding against risk and liability all while protecting your Ip. Go to focus standards.org. And so we have geode. I am so pleased to have you. You are one of those people in the industry. We have a lot of them. Um, but you have this ridiculously impressive background that I can't wait to talk to you about.

Speaker 5: Wow. Thank you for the kind words. I'm very happy to be here and thank you for taking the time to chat with me.

Speaker 1: I mean you, you've got, I really do want to cover, you know, all of your background in the time that we have, but you know, where did you first kind of recognize data as the path for this organization?

Speaker 5: So I have kind of a, as the exact story as is true of many entrepreneurs in any space. Really. Um, I was, I started. So my Undergrad is from University of Pennsylvania and towards, and then as many of us did a, ended up in investment banking in New York. I was with JP Morgan Chase for over three years, London and Manhattan and I was doing a lot of data analytics as you can imagine. Um, nine slash 11 occurred and I'm in incredibly enough. I'm very fortunate for me. I was late to a meeting at one of the towers and I ended up being the only survivor in my group. And so yeah. Um, and so it was sort of one of those life changing moments where I decided I need to do something different with my life banking was not where I wanted it to, you know, what I wanted to end up.

Speaker 5: But I did have a deep appreciation for data and numbers. I'm kind of a data geek. I left in New York, I moved to Washington dc where we are now. Went to Georgetown and got my masters in international security and um, trade and finance and ended up working for the government, uh, doing, uh, other aspects of data collection and analysis. Also working with some of the prime, the primes and the defense sector lead of stuff on security technology, but again, very strong data data element, but with a stronger technology aspect to it. Did that for a few years. Um, government was not necessarily best suited for me and my personality. I'm kind of a nonconformist and so I exited, but with data and financial and technology under my belt. So I launched a company called GSI International, which patented, or at least was trying to patent something called auto speed check and you probably know it as snapshot.

Speaker 5: A snapshot is a little Gizmo that progressive insurance gives us drivers to monitor their driving behavior in real time. So it's technology and real time data and it gets turned into analytics for the insurance company so they can figure out how to charge for premiums. So that was my first real deep dive into data and technology. Uh, was you that, that was. Yeah. Well, progressive did it. We ran out after two years. It was 2007 and 2008. Not the best time to launch a company, as you can imagine. No, yeah, and the worst time, so we, we, excuse me myself, got a lot of attention for coming up with the idea, but our investors' pockets dried out and then two weeks after our patent pending expired progressive launch snapshot, so it's one of the bittersweet moments in life, but I was comfortable with the entrepreneurial journey and with data, fast forward seven years, um, I was running my own consulting firm, helping you as companies go into emerging markets, so higher risk markets.

Speaker 5: Uh, and someone called me and said, hey, I heard them Maryland is going to legalize marijuana. And I was like, okay. I'm like, well, I really need you to help us identify the opportunity and assess risk. And I did what I always did for my clients. I went and looked for an industry report. All none of the usual suspect had one at all. Then I look for market data, any research, any quantifiable data anywhere, nothing, nothing. And that's how new frontier was born. A massive gap in the incredibly phenomenal, you know, high growth industry. And no one was actually looking at it from a rigorous quantifiable angle.

Speaker 6: Perfect. Well, let's leave that there for a moment and we certainly, of course we'll come back to it, but you know, I, I want to connect the other dots that haven't been connected. Is it true geode that you were born in Italy?

Speaker 5: It is true. I was born in, born in Italy, in Rome.

Speaker 6: Uh Huh. Okay. And so what's it like in Rome as a child?

Speaker 5: Um, well, it gets a little complicated because even though I was born in Rome, I was raised in Switzerland and in France

Speaker 6: [inaudible]. Okay. I mean, you know, do you care to share how that happened because you said it's complicated, but.

Speaker 5: Well, so my father was a diplomat and so I guess I'm a deep breath as they say. Uh, we moved around every three to five years and so I stayed in Italy until I was about six, then moved to France, Paris, um, lived there for about five years, then a Switzerland for a year and then three years in Spain. And then I came to the US. Um, my last year in high school. So I'm from all over the place.

Speaker 6: Oh my goodness. You're a European,

Speaker 5: but I am. I am in data, certainly a month. It is what? It is. Very loving. You know what they say about months.

Speaker 6: Absolutely. Well, what I mean, what did you pick up? You know, you are someone that appreciates data and kind of looking at the finer points. Do you know, you know, as far as the way that you are, your personality or your likes, your dislikes as far as Italy, France and Switzerland, what you took from each country?

Speaker 5: Oh, I do math and numbers when you have to switch languages every three years and switched schools. Guess what I discovered was the one constant that I was able to pick up numbers and data. Those were, it's the international language and it was very difficult adapting to the new culture, new language as, as a child. So I always grabbed onto sort of the math elements and I think I carried that forward into my adult and professional life.

Speaker 6: Totally. What about the cultures themselves? So, you know, Italian culture, French culture, Swiss culture.

Speaker 5: So the Mediterranean culture in general has a lot of similarities. I mean it's warm. It's a very value based, I think that probably carried over into the three values of new frontier, which are loyalty, honesty and respect. So that very sort of strong on traditional values, a great food. It's all about, um, you know, working to live, not live to work. Maybe that's, maybe that's why we offer unlimited vacation. Um, but so yeah, there are a lot of commonalities across the countries that I lived in. As far as your, uh, my big culture shock was when I came to the US. Not, that was a whole space.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Tell, tell, uh, you know, those Americans listening, uh, what it's like to, to join us at age. What, 16, 17, 18. Uh, what, what is it that you first noticed?

Speaker 5: Um, well, I was expecting to enter into the world of John Hugh and the breakfast breakfast club and 16 candles because that's all I knew. Um, and uh, well, uh, there was, there, it wasn't exactly like that. Um, I moved to Miami, which is also skewed my perception of the US. I think Florida in Miami are a bit different from the rest of the United States. Um, and so I felt like I just moved to the Caribbean, you know, I was used to walking cities and old buildings and here I am looking at palm trees and you couldn't get even around the corner without a car, so that was a bit hard. Um, but as I started moving northeast and eventually ended up in DC, I feel much more at home. They see specifically is very much a, I mean it's a city that was designed by, by long phone was a French architect. So it's certainly reminiscing of home for me.

Speaker 6: Yeah, no, absolutely. I can see that. So if I'm keeping count the languages that, you know, Italian, French, Spanish, English, what is it? Is that it?

Speaker 5: Portuguese. I also speak Portuguese. What, how does that come into it? Well, I'll put together sort of a mix of French, Italian and Spanish. And then when I was working, when I was running my consulting firm looking into emerging countries, we were looking at the bric nations, Brazil, Russia, India, China, to some extent South Africa, a lot of business in Brazil. And so I picked it up. Okay. For two guests a followup leukemia.

Speaker 6: Yeah. So, uh, my, you know, kind of history with Portuguese is that uh, I worked, uh, my, one of my first jobs was working at a shoe warehouse. So the good news is that I didn't have to put the shoe on the foot, I just had to go and get the box. But as a, as a 14 year old kid to a Portuguese brothers owned and operated the shop. And so I learned a lot of Portuguese without learning it, if you, if you understand what I'm [inaudible].

Speaker 5: Yep, I do. I absolutely do. I hope you didn't end up with a massive food fetish.

Speaker 6: I did not. Thank goodness. And I would tell you if I did A. Yeah, no, that's not a, that's not one of my likes. So I'm happy to report that. Maybe that's what put me off of it. You'll never know. Yeah. Alright. So, so, uh, Washington, I mean, it sounds like, uh, you buy way though of, of Pennsylvania, right? A 10. And then warden, what was Washington like as a, you know, as a young, as a young person coming up.

Speaker 5: So I, um, I, well I, when I was, when I moved to Miami, I did not speak a word of English and it was, it's not anything that you can pick up. Having a romance language background is just not the same. So I spent, I went to community college in Miami for three and a half years before I was able to transfer to penn. So once I did transfer it was quite the change from both Florida and community college. It waS probably one of the most amazing experiences of my lIfe. It was extremely diverse. I'm really fast paced and I was also taking six courses a semester to catch up as a transfer student. Uh, but, but it's extremely, is going to sound cliche but really intellectually stimulating. And I know, again, that sounds kind of geeky, but I loved it. I really did. Um, I had a dual major so I was taking classes at wharton as well at the school of arts and sciences. Um, and I mean I just loved every bit of it. I mean, I even took some courses. I was just hungry and ready to, you know, to, to move into the, you know, the real word and, and, and try hard to achieve something. So I enjoyed it very much.

Speaker 6: So where does that come from? You, you, you mentioned that your dad was a diplomat as far as your mother or your father. Where's the work ethic coming from?

Speaker 5: Um, my father most likely and my mother as well, but certainly I think my father had more of an impact. Um, I mean, I'll give you an example. The first two games that he ever taught my brother and I were chess and poker. He was very cerebral. He spoke nine languages, so he spoke way more than I and he, and he was always, you know, he was a firm believer that in order to achieve anything in life it took hard work and luck and you better work on the hard work side because you can control the lock side.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Okay. So that's good. And then what your mother, what was her, uh, you know, how, how did she, um, exhibit her work ethic, if you will?

Speaker 5: So my mom was very much self made, um, my mom's mother was a single mom with three little kids. She had her first child at 16. She's today a prominent writer and seeing writer, a music writer and a poet in Cuba still. And so my mom growing up wanted to be a ballerina a. And so my mom, my grandmother wouldn't have it and she's like, that is not a true profession. Um, but she did, she, she got, I believe a bachelor in accounting and then she pursued her dream and she became quite a prominent, a ballerina in Cuba and then went on to becoming quite a successful actress in Italy. I'm outta here. Yeah. Yeah. So

Speaker 6: look at that. So I got my degree there. You have it. Look, I'm smart and I can do whatever I need. Now I'm going to go be a dancer and an actor.

Speaker 5: She is very much on the artistic side. So I had, I was getting all of the arts and creativity and encouragement to think outside of the box from my mom and follow your dream and really be empowered. And then I, I got more oF these structured hard work, you know, cross all the t's dot all the i's from my dad.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Uh, if I'm kind of a reading you correctly, I feel like we're about the same age. And so that means that it certainly makes sense for you to go back into banking when you did. Is that about right? The smartest people were going into banking right about now?

Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was at the time of the big bim. So. Yes.

Speaker 6: uh huh. And so manhattan first or london first? Manhattan first. And where did you live? Being a new yorker? I have to ask.

Speaker 5: Well, I started in park slope in brooklyn and then I moved to, um, the, I guess midtown, upper east side, 50. First and second. Oh,

Speaker 7: okay. So you had plenty of square footage. Oh yeah. Oh yes, yes. My, my room and my shoe box. So what about the same size? Yes. Yeah, that's right. Fair enough. But, uh, so,

Speaker 6: so manhattan, which did you prefer a banking in manhattan or banking in london?

Speaker 7: Banking in manhattan or london was brutal. Oh my goodness. How come? Well,

Speaker 5: I guess the year I spent there, um, it was sunny the day I arrived and I was all excited about it. Then for the next 300 and sIxty four days, there was not a non. One day it rained every single day I was there. I kid you not,

Speaker 6: you're not being hyperbolic?

Speaker 5: No, I am not even fight. It was in the news of the year. You can probably google what year I was there. It was just historic moment. It was, it was so depressing. It was too hard for me.

Speaker 6: Okay. And so then back to New York or is that when you went back down to dc?

Speaker 7: No, no, no. Back to New York. Uh huh. Okay.

Speaker 6: And then when did you give up on banking? Right? About the right time, right.

Speaker 5: Well nine slash 11. So it took me about a year to extricate myself in banking and get into georgetown. But literally a week after 9:11 I, I was, I decided this is, this is, I need to do something more. I think it's the type of, uh, you know, I was in my twenties is a type of psychological impact that an event like that has, that you just want to do something about it. Like it was so close to me and I think there are a lot of stories like that of folks that just dropped, you know, whatever career they had and they went and worked for the government. There was a huge wave of people that ended up doing that.

Speaker 6: Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, you know, it was, I mean, we all kind of remember it and I, I do want to just talk about it just for, for a few more moments for, for that reason, because you were kind of right in the, in the middle of it. And for folks that are maybe younger or folks that weren't in New York at the time, um, you know, do your best to describe, you said I needed to change immediately and you did change immediately. Um, what, what else can you share about? Obviously, you know, you're a survivor is quite literally, um, but give a sense of um, uh, to folks what the, what the, you know, what it felt like in New York directly after.

Speaker 5: Um, yeah, that's a really good question. Um, I think it was a mixed feelings. I mean, the phone obviously first, as soon as it happened, most of us didn't know what was going on. I was on my way to work. All I know is that the, you know, the subway stopped, we all got out and people were saying the tower got hit and people were like, what? Sprint's tower verizon store? What, what are you talking about? My cell is not working. So a lot of confusion. As soon as we realized that the end of the first tower went down, just out of panic, uh, everyone had just started running away from it. I mean, it was literally panic. Then we started getting fired, you know, jets going over the city. And given that communication had stopped. No was able to get anything other than from tvs.

Speaker 5: Literally. Tvs were on the streets and the sidewalks. So people knew what was going on, but it was just complete terror. We thought it was world war three with the, you know, the city was under attack. Um, so the first 24 hours we were pretty horrific and just, you heard stories about people looking for people and everyone. There was also a sense of community. New york has always had this, at least when I was very had this, this image and sense of like, you know, new york's are all ads for themselves and it's all about money and it's cold and no one cares. Well, let me tell you, 72 hours to probably a few months after nine slash 11, the city and the vibe and the energy in the city was one of, of a community and helping one another and very understanding. I mean, even the cops that had a reputation for being honestly jerks were just, you know, puppies.

Speaker 5: It was, it was complete black and white overnight of, of how the city operated. Um, and then in terms of longer term impact, there was a lot of sadness for folks in the financial sector because there were so many losses. You, everybody knew somebody, um, that, that either, you know, had had passed or, or had a family member or significant other their past. Um, and a lot of frustration and anger, there are a lot of anger and I think ultimately the anger is what led people like me to say, you know, I want to do something about it. Um, and of course not everyone could just drop the career. But I was at a point in mind what I could, you know, I had just been doing it for three years. It was the right time for me to just pick up and go.

Speaker 6: It was early enough for ya. And you know, I will say as far as the sense of community at that time, there was nothing like it. Uh, hopefully we won't have to repeat it. But it was, it was amazing to be a new yorker at that time. Not only amongst ourselves, but also others, you know, others kind of shared, uh, in, in being a new yorker. And it was, it was the silver lining of that was that it was really very positive through the sadness and the anger, if that makes any sense.

Speaker 5: No, I could not agree more. It's very true. Yeah. Yeah. A united, the city, you know, what they say, right. Give me a common enemy and it will unite everyone. I think there was a sense of that.

Speaker 6: Yeah. No, absolutely. And that's a, that's why we all dislike scheduled one so much. Um, so you went down then to the next kind of a boom if you will, you know, defense obviously heats up right around then and you were there to meet it.

Speaker 5: Yup. So that, that is absolutely right. That was accidental. I should've studied through, but it worked out the timing, you know, what they say? Timing is everything. So yes,

Speaker 6: lock that. Your dad was.

Speaker 5: There you go. Yeah. Because there were a lot of technology developments at the time. There was really a boom in terms of, especially as it relates back to data. I mean, I dunno if you're familiar with what happened in terms of all of the, the um, national and international, various intel shops and enforcement trying to communicate with one another. There was one of the reasons for nIne slash 11 fiasco was a lack of communication across agencies, so interagency communication within the us, but also interagency communication with other law enforcement and intelligence agencies across the globe. And so there was a massive initiative to sort of fix that problem, which was truly core at its core about data and information sharing. Um, so it was the perfect time for me to get my feet wet, so to speak.

Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely. And then how soon, you know, you were still young person, but how soon did it occur to you to, to, you know, found gsi?

Speaker 5: Uh, I found it in 2007. Um, and then, um, I,

Speaker 6: so it was a few years later.

Speaker 5: It was a few years later as. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I literally, I only did my, my, my stint for lack of a better term, uh, you know, working with, with defense, uh, was maybe three and a half years. Um, government is a very strict environment, especially if you're dealing at the top of clearance level where I was dealing with a lot of donuts and a lot of red tape and it was a little bit frustrating for someone like me just because of the, my, just my persona, my character. and so yeah, I, I needed a little more space and mobility.

Speaker 6: Well, you've kind of referenced your persona, your character kind of not meshing well, what are you really saying? I mean, you said you're not, you're a nonconformist, but what does that mean? We're, what are we getting at?

Speaker 5: Um hmm. How do I put it? I'm going to think nonconformance nonconformist is, is at the core of it. I am always questioning things always, you know, one of the first words I learned as a chIld was why I kid you not. I drove my parents crazy. Um, so, you know, following the rules for no reason is the thing is a problem for me. Like I need a reason to follow a particular role, it needs to make sense and if it doesn't make sense then I want to know why they not be different. So to see cannabis was perfect because it's a clean slate and what we're doing with the data and what we're providing ultimately is intended to guide those decisions and those rule making. So there's the why we're literally providing the why.

Speaker 6: Yeah. So, so let's get into it. Let's jump into, uh, you know, to a new frontier, um, as far as the initial information that you needed to gather that you were looking for and could not find a, what was it immediately that needed to happen? You know, step one was what

Speaker 5: step one was to raise money to launch the company,

Speaker 7: but after that, and that was fun. Um,

Speaker 5: especially when you're dealing cannabis people that you doing big data and you're the, you're telling data, people that you're doing it in cannabis, there is a massive disconnect between the two.

Speaker 7: The be more

Speaker 6: obviously in your, you're a part of that, but uh, yeah, no, at the time, uh, that was like shocking to two people that both of them were looking at you like you're crazy. I'm sure.

Speaker 5: Yeah, pretty much. But no, the first, the, the, you know, the first challenge that we faced in sort of building the infrastructure or the value proposition was to create the technology infrastructure. And we found early on, the reason there was no data was not because the data didn't exist is because it existed in pockets. It was not accessible, so was fragmented across states and across verticals and across individuals and organizations. Uh, it was not normalized or standardized. so they was like comparing apples and pears or apples and oranges, whatever the expression is. And, and, and, and so, and there was literally no centralized repository. And so the first, the first challenge was to really understand where those pockets of data, we're a, what the data sets within those pockets were. and how were they, what was the nature of the data? How did it, how did, didn't materialize? Was it, you know, was it in, in, in databases, was it just paperwork, what was it? And then, and then figure out a way to bring it all together. so we spend an aggregator about four years just building the technology infrastructure to be able to ingest cag, categorize and mixed search of all the data and that then led to being able to dissect it and analyze it. BUt there was a lot of work that came in before we were able to put out anything that adjustable.

Speaker 6: Yeah. And so what you're talking about is big data as the solution. You're welcome and thank you. That's fine. But I guess, yeah, what after that four year journey, um, you know, uh, what was it that you kind of found, you know, what were the initial findings that you were just shouting about to begin with?

Speaker 5: Well, the, the, the growth, the size of the market and the, the, the annual growth they were when I first looked at in the industry was in 2014. Uh, and when I did my permanently, I researched it already, just google because I couldn't find anything else. I mean, the numbers you would get were anywhere from the trillions to the billions and no one knew if it included the black market, if it was national or international. There was just not. I mean everyone knew was big. Everyone talked about how big it was a. So the first thing we figured out is let's really quantify the size of the market. Of course he became a lot easier once Colorado came into play and all that, but that was. That was. That was the first milestone is to really be able to substantiate the size of the market and project growth forward.

Speaker 6: What would you tell? Yeah. What would you tell folks that don't know what, what? What is the size of the market? What are we looking at?

Speaker 5: So we're looking so last, so the c five point 7 billion as of 2015 as gross revenue nationally, I'm growing at 31 to 32 percent compound annual growth rate and we've looked at about seven years of history, which makes by the way makes it one of the fastest growing industries in the country. And this project would not. We now projected to be at over 22 billion by 2020.

Speaker 6: Okay. So within five years we're a, what does that quintupling yup. Yeah. Okay. And, and that is, is that the fastest growth of any industry?

Speaker 5: The recreational portion of it is the fastest growing industry sector in the country, which is growing at 232 percent, which is insane as a whole, which includes recreational and medical. It is probably in the top 10.

Speaker 6: So, uh, you know, it's wonderful to hear those numbers because I'm one of those people that just always says it's amazing. It's ridiculous. I mean, I've started to, you know, give the, the Colorado statistics because those are public in a published. Um, but you know, to hear those numbers, it's amazing. It's also amazing to hear those numbers and, and know that we only have, if you will, 25 states that are legal with medical. No, not all of those operational. We only have four states, a legal with adult use. Um, you know, and you could argue how operational each of those states is. Um, what, you know, how do you take into account what's about to happen in this election, you know, um, once, you know the rubber meets the road after november, we're going to have a whole new slate of states. How much does that pop the numbers straight up.

Speaker 5: So that's a very good question and one that we spent the literally the past three to four months I'm looking into from a numbers perspective, like how, what would happen depending on who gets elected, how would it impact the industry and is projected growth and not to plug in, but we're about to release a refresher to the state of legal marijuana markets report. So a semiannual that looks in depth into that, uh, in partnership with, of your market research. It's a complicated matter. Um, but, and, and I, and I don't want to give, give out, you know, I don't want to get, what is the expression, let the cat out of the bag too early. But, but it's not, let's just put it this way. It regardless. It's not, it's not going to be a show stopper. I'm the industry has now grown to the point where it's going to be very difficult to just stop it.

Speaker 5: you can put the cat back in the bag. It's not going to happen. At the worst case scenario, we may see some, some delays in terms of obviously banking. The industry is still cash only, which is a huge problem. And we were, were all looking to, you know, for presidential input and congressional action to change that and depending on who's elected, we may not see that. However, the medical side, uh, it's not just pressure internally in the United States in terms of moving things forward. There's pressure internationally. We have half a dozen countries around us that are legalizing, um, Australia, Israel, and some countries in europe have already progressed and done some serious work on the clinical side that it's, that that's making the us fall behind in, in, in healthcare and pharmaceutical. And those were things that, those are, those are drivers that are going to be difficult to ignore regardless of who ends up winning the presidential campaign.

Speaker 6: Well, so do you, you ended up with the presidential campaign, uh, which I will come back to. Um, but as far as Israel, they've been doing research for 30 years as far as, you know, the Netherlands. They are, you know, we uh, spoke to, um, the executive, uh, at um, a badger care and uh, the ceo of badger can jolene and it, it's remarkable what he's doing and he's going to, to Australia as are others. We obviously we've got a Uruguay coming on board or go to Germany is doing a, you know, research now and so, you know, we really are behind a officially as we speak, let alone our neighbors to the north Canada who have a, a, you know, federally legal system in place with medical and they're about to um, you know, legalize uh, you know, uh, adult use so that, I mean, how much is that going to effect a cannabis as a market here in the us? Do you see money going from the us abroad because of that reason or no?

Speaker 5: Well, we are about to put out a report on Canada, so hold that thought, but a deep dive. It is. Everyone is, is very interested. Also, Canada has a very partIcular model, as I'm sure you're aware of, on the medical side. It's all state run via mail, so there were different model one that's worked for them. So there's a lot of curiosity on the application or the impact of that model. what we have seen to date is certainly a lot of investment coming from Canada into the us. Uh, it would not be surprising if that flow begins to go the other way, depending on how things move forward in the future. It would not be surprising at all.

Speaker 6: Well that that particular system that you speak of is all by mail order and they are, you know, explicitly excluding dispensary's. Um, however, uh, there is the possibility I'm hearing that there are going to be pharmacies that are permitted to distribute cannabis. Um, so if there is, you know, retail in Canada, I, I'm with you as far as seeing money go the other way.

Speaker 5: Yup. Yup. No, it's very interesting what they're doing. It's a very unique model.

Speaker 6: [inaudible], why do you keep saying that? What is a, you know, what, what is of particular interest to you?

Speaker 5: Well, the fact that it's all controlled through the state is one in through the mail and no dispensary, so no retail, no retail whatsoever. If the pharmacists do come and it will be just interestinG because it's something that the us going to want to look into as well depending on what happens with the scheduling. So these are. See the, what is very exciting to me and our team here at new frontier is the fact that this, there really isn't a lot that we know about thIs industry. I mean, if you think about it, the cannabis industry impacts, um, adults use the recreational aspect of it. It has medical applications as we've been talking about. And then he has industrial application through a hump. It is, it is a phenomenon is, it is absolutely unique. Tell me of any other plans that you know of that has all three applications. Uh, so anytime we look at different ways where the mike is tweaked and the industry is evolving, it gives us more pieces of the puzzle so we can continue to understanding. It's jUst a massive, um, uh, well puzzle. That's It. It's a massive, massive puzzle that we're trying to figure out. So it's exciting.

Speaker 6: It's totally exciting. And, and, uh, you know, you mentioned the industry and, and you're, you're talking about the plant, the fact that we don't know a lot about the plant, we really don't. It's amazing. We don't know how, uh, how much the plant can, you know, interact with our own bodies through the endocannabinoid system. It's, it's amazing.

Speaker 5: And the, the, the level of lack of information and understanding, especially given how fast the industry is growing is astonishing. And, and, and that that's why we feel so strongly and we were so committed to the entire information sharing and data collection. We need to understand, we need to have more visibility.

Speaker 6: Yeah. I was going to say, you as a data person, I'm sure that you don't throw the word astonishing around very easily.

Speaker 5: Nope. When we talking about statistically astonishing.

Speaker 6: Yep, exactly. All right, so then let's get back to a, the bright shiny object of the us presidential election. It just came out that the democrats are going to put something towards legalization of cannabis on, you know, I'm on their side of things that, that's what they're going with the most we know about, uh, the republican side is that, you know, a confidant of the, uh, of the leading a cat or the presumptive nominee, uh, is uh, chris christie who is a not so pro cannabis. Uh, and you knoW, spoke to chris. Yeah. We spoke to chris crane about the fact that if he becomes attorney general, he can just kind of rewrite the cole memos and then we're back at square one. That is how you can put the cat back in the bag as you say. Um, what is your response to that? As far as the cat actually staying in the.

Speaker 5: that's the reSponse that I would not give us the ceo of new frontier. Fair enough. As you know, were agnostic to any movement and we have to be very careful. We only speak to things that are based on fActs and data when we have that data. And so this is, but on a personal level, I would say I would stick to what I said earlier, which is, you know, trump is a businessman, you know, through and through, and I'll leave it at that. I mean, I was surprised too.

Speaker 6: Fair enough. Yeah. So I, I, uh, I, I think I can read through the tea leaves there. Um, okay. So there's your, uh, you know, presidential election. Okay. Whatever. Um, do you have models in place for, if you know, Arizona does not go if Nevada does not go, if, god forbid California does not go, you know, I would imagine the assumption is California is going, but the assumption more and more is that Arizona and Nevada might not. Those are big cannabis economies that might not become a reality. What are yoUr thoughts?

Speaker 5: Yeah. So we do what we do deep dives into our reports. Uh, so, uh, through the, the annual report, the state of legal marijuana report, we sort of give an overarching view of each of the states and the lIkelihood of them moving forward and if so, the impact on the revenue and the market sIze overall when we do deep dives into each of these tests, then we gave more of a case, a case scenario, what would happen if it does, but it happens if it doesn't. And then we try to quantify sort of project for what, what would that mean in terms of investment opportunity as well as operating environment for those who are looking to open businesses in those states.

Speaker 6: As far as the $22 billion number, how, how much does that affect that percentage wise roughly?

Speaker 5: Um, we're pretty conservative in our estimates and we're talking about the more, you know, a couple of states in a myriad of, you know, 30 plus now that at the end of the day are talking about introducing bills or not. Um, so, you know, I, I, that's probably a better question for executive vp of industry analytics who crunches the numbers daily. But overall, the growth rate Is what it is. I mean, as I said, unless something really life changing and monumental occurs that this seems unlikely to me and to us, we should see those numbers be pretty solid. I mean, think about it. Twenty $2, million versus 20 billion. I mean, you know, it's big.

Speaker 6: That's fair. Those are harris to split. But I, I take your point as far as advocates and activists that we speak that we speak to, you know, folks from like mpp and dpa and you know, um, there is certain fear that if we, you know, if we lose these states that we're heading in the wrong direction, the sense that I'm getting from you a data person is that um, okay, so 22 billion goes to $20 million, but we still have, you know, 30 plus states like you just said, is that fair? Should we not be worrying so much?

Speaker 5: Well, I think so, you know, you will. I don't want to diminish the level of fear and concern that folks may want, may, may want, which have a regarding the fact that there isn't. And again, we remember new frontier is agnostic, we don't take part in the movement, but when I look at the gps and the mpps, the, you know, our understanding and what do we see is they, if, if we really want to see these initiatives move forward sooner rather than later, there needs to be support and these things need to occur today versus tomorrow because we don't know what tomorrow, you know what tomorrow will look like from a numbers perspective. Listen, if there was a perfect storm and none of the state went through in California, fell apart and you know, then you know, christie came on board and just stopped everything then.

Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean is that a possibility? Sure it is statistically, statistically, is it a likely possibility? I would say probably not. So there they realize they lies the difference between quantitative analysis and qualitative analysis. So mpp and dpa though I would, I would defer to them in terms of their feel of, you know, what's happening in terms of support within those states. And we actually do look for them to give us visibility and granularity when we do crunch the numbers. You need the qualitative element. Um, same with doc view. We also look at arcview who obviously has been in this space forever.

Speaker 6: Sure, sure. But the only a, the only activists there are the ceo and president only. It's only, it's only steven. Troy, I'm kidding, because we know and love them of course. But, uh, I take your point. They do what they do, you do what you do and we carry on type of thing

Speaker 5: and, and, and we have to be aware of what each other does so that we can then inform in a comprehensive manner the community because you need both sides.

Speaker 6: Absolutely. You need all sides. That's exactly right. And I do think that that is why, you know, um, there is this hockey stick growth. It, it's, you know, sure. It's an interesting subject which makes for a great industry, which has a lot, uh, you know, going on, uh, in it, uh, but there are so many different aspects and there are so many different things to do in so many different things to talk about. I think that that adds to why there is the success that there is. There is a certain breed in this industry. Have you noticed that you're coming from banking, you're coming from defense. Have you noticed the breed of executive that's here?

Speaker 5: Absolutely. There are folks that are not afraid to take risks. Um, more and more seasoned professionals really, you know, I have come in, have come in from mature sectors. Uh, yeah, I mean it's a, it's basically pioneers, folks that have come into the industry or of folks sort of, you know, there's a reason why they called it the green rush. Analogous to the gold rush is folks that are hungry, uh, you know, and, and, and, and, and believe and want to see change. And one of lead the way into new frontiers. Yeah, absolutely. Um, I have it. It's actually very refreshing and to, to be, you know, to have peers, you know, people in the industry that, that are so excited and driven. There iS no, oh, I'm, I'm coming into the industry to have a nine to five job know coming into the industry because I'm going to have an impact and I'm going to do something amazing and going to make a lot of money, but I'm going to change things. There's just a lot of drive. It's, it's purely contagious.

Speaker 6: It really is contagious. It's a amazing when a, a bunch of folks you know, get together, it just becomes a really fun experience no matter what, no matter what we're talking about.

Speaker 5: Yup. Yup.

Speaker 6: Um, and iS that the first time, I mean, how would you compare it, you know, you just did describe the cannabis executive generally with a broad brush, you know, how would you compare it, the, you know, that group to the bankers, to the defense folks, you know, what, what would you add if anything, or have you said enough?

Speaker 5: Uh, well, I can give you a little bit of a female perspective if I. Sure, yes. Please, because my experience is through that of a female. Um, yeah, it's extreme and I said this in the past. It, it was an exciting and refreshing time for me to enter an industry where it was a sort of a plain level field, a level playing field. Is that the expression?

Speaker 6: Yeah. Level playing field. Absolutely. Yeah. It's all apples and pears though. She got me. Hey, listen, it is the fifth one. I learned it, you know, the idioms or something that I have a hard time with still, but I like to use it. Forget about it. Yeah, no. As far as language, let's just take the tangent quickly. My, my girlfriend was born and raised in, in Poland, and so I have a unique look at the english language and when you look at it, it actually doesn't make sense the way that we are rules. They're all over the place. It's a. I'm so glad that you said it or not. I absolutely. But uh, go on.

Speaker 5: Yes. But so going back to the female experience, I mean I'll be it. I did find myself in, in, you know, sort of the extreme male dominated, you know, proverbial glass ceiling, whether you believe it or not, in banking, technology and government. Those are pretty strict environment. So, uh, my experience with extreme but so, so it was the change when I came into the cannabis space. I mean, it was, there was no, I never felt like I was looked at differently because I was female or because I was a minority. It really, there was no such, that just wasn't, there was also a preestablished boys' club. I mean, we were all in it together. Um, and so I think, and of course it's also a different time, a different generation, right? This is where we are and have evolved as a societY also has a role to play, but it was just much easier, much it just easier, um, to, to be able to navigate it, to get traction, to be heard, uh, to forge relationships and partnerships. It was very different in terms of those dynamics.

Speaker 6: That's fantastic. I love to hear that. uh, it also might have something to do with the fact that the product that we work with is female, right? It's only female plants to. Can that count here?

Speaker 5: Wow, that's a good one. I'm going to use that. That's so true. You're right.

Speaker 6: Yeah. Those are the only ones that matter really. Um, all right, so we're, we're kind of a near, uh, where we ask you three questions, the final three questions and I will ask you those, but just generally speaking, you, you've kind of laid out what you see, um, you know, leading up to 20 slash 20, um, and, you know, we're, we're on this roller coaster so, so hey, let's do it. You've also outline what, what could go wrong, um, you know, but in your sense, you know, just just share with us here, the 20 slash 20, is it, is it basically written, you know, without, um, something out of the ordinary or extraordinary happening?

Speaker 5: You do ask the tough one, and I'm sorry that I'm going to be a little cord. The only things that are showing life as was quoted and I don't remember that home or death in Texas, everything else. And I'm not, I mean, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to say anything officially in, in those terms. Got it.

Speaker 6: Yeah. No, I, I keep on asking you non data questions and you keep on being a data person. I can't help it. At least we're proving that is my point, you know? Um. All right. So the three final questions, I'll tell you what they are and then I'll ask you them in order. The first one is what has most surprised you in cannabis? The second is what has most surprised you in life? And then the third question is either the toughest one or the easiest one on the soundtrack of geodes life named one song, one track that's got to be on there. But first things first, What has most surprised you in cannabis?

Speaker 5: This sheer power that this industry has and will continue to have. How many arms tentacles, how many things and people it touches. Um, it's massive and it's only getting bigger. And I'm not just talking quantifiable revenue. And things like that, I'm just talking about the aspects of this industry that everyday touching more, more and more people, more and more countries, more and more aspects of your life, more and more aspects of society and more and more aspects of the economy. I mean, it's, it's, it's again going to use it again. Astonishing.

Speaker 6: Yeah. It's global. It, you've got your, you know, agriculture, you've got your manufacturing, you've got your, uh, you know, medical. You've got your retail and everything in between.

Speaker 5: Yep.

Speaker 6: Uh, okay. What has most surprised you in life? Geode

Speaker 5: how many times you have to fall and reinvent. Pick yourself back up and reinvent yourself. It's constant. Uh, I mean, for me, I guess it started early on with the moves, but I always thought that at some point, you know, I thought it was just me and the dfs stopped moving. It would get easier, but it isn't a, it's just, it's in. But that also is what makes it pleasurable and flavorful and colorful. Um, and so I think that, that, you know, I mean, I probably learned that lesson about maybe 10 years ago and it's made the last 10 years of my life much easier and much smoother when you just realize that, hey, you're on a rollercoaster, you have to be in it for the ride and then you might as well enjoy the ride. The ride is what it's going to be.

Speaker 6: That's it, you know, you, you say falling, falling down. I, I kind of have a different phrase for that. I, uh, my, my kind of saying goes sometimes to continue on the path of least resistance, you have to run through a fucking wall. Wow. That's, I love that.

Speaker 7: No,

Speaker 6: no, it's just sometimes you got to do that. And uh, and when you say again, when you say falling guy, I call that getting hit in the face. I, I keep getting hit in the face and you know, what are you going to do? Right?

Speaker 5: Yeah, no, it's trUe. And you just keep going. Yeah.

Speaker 6: All right. So on the soundtrack of your life geode where just one track, one song that's got to be on there and yeah, well you gotta I mean, you, you were in Italy, you're in Switzerland. I don't know what kind of music happens in, uh, in those countries. France, you had, you had some stuff going on in France at the time. I mean, you were the right age with some of the, uh, the, the music that was happening there. Then you come over here. I don't know what was happening down in Florida, but there was plenty going on. A lot of different types of, of music happening. Doesn't sound like you're much of a music person.

Speaker 5: Oh no, I am, but it's just, there's so much. But since you brought up, you know, my early formative years, music wise, it's gonna be from the left field. So getting ready, celentano uh, was a, was a famous composer and musician, italian. Um, and he's, he has a song called les chateaux, which led, which is translates to let me sing, let me be myself. Um, and I think that that would be, that would be my soundtrack. That will be in.

Speaker 6: Oh yeah. What's the, what's the artist again? One more time.

Speaker 5: Celentano c I e l a n t. I know

Speaker 6: we're gonna have to check that out. Um, when you, when you speak, of course, I, since with my american ears, everything sounds not american. And so I thought of guantanamera by celia cruz, but that is, of course, that's not from anywhere close to what you were talking about.

Speaker 5: Oh, but that's from Cuba. And funny enough celia cruz and my grandmother were frIends.

Speaker 6: Get outta here. Kikina are you serious?

Speaker 5: Yeah. Also the social club, they're all musicians. I'm, as I said, my grandmother is a musician, so they, uh, they all sort of evolved together and they're all contemporaries. Yeah,

Speaker 6: get outta here.

Speaker 5: Yeah, this is, in fact, I spent many a times that the grandmother's place with her. Um, but yeah, that would be a very good song to you. I'm sorry, I didn't think of it.

Speaker 6: No, that's fine. I think you did just a, just fine a geode. Thank you so much. I mean, you, uh, you really doing important work for the industry, you know, and I know that you, uh, I've, I've pushed you and you haven't relented as far as you know, what, what you can say and what you can't and I apologize for, for pushing that. You and I appreciate you letting me do so. Keep doing the hard work. Yeah, keep doing that work for us though. You know what I mean? You're really, you're doing important stuff over there.

Speaker 5: Thank you so much. It's been an absolute pleasure to have this chat. I really have. So thank yoU for all of the questions including the hard one. We need those.

Speaker 6: There we go. Alright, jada, I will see you down the line.

Speaker 5: Sounds great. See you soon.

Speaker 2: And there you have geode of wire. Decarceration covered a lot with geode. Very much appreciated that conversation. Very much appreciated the conversation with allison drazen from ed lu's edibles. Our plan is to get more information from Washington state. Doesn't sound like it's soul going like it's supposed to, where It's sounding like it's going like it's supposed to. And that's maybe the problem.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.