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Ep.175: Pain Management in Pro Sports; Introview w/Amanda Reiman, DPA

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.175: Pain Management in Pro Sports; Introview w/Amanda Reiman, DPA

Ep.175: Pain Management in Pro Sports; Introview w/Amanda Reiman, DPA

Eben Britton, Charlie Adams, Nate JacksonRiley Cote, former NFL and NHL athletes join a roundtable discussion with Heather Jackson of Realm of Caring and Dr. Marcel Bon Miller of the University of Pennsylvania on pain management. We talk about how marijuana is currently used by pro athletes despite the medicine being banned by all professional leagues. The athletes share, to a person, that the stigma associated with cannabis is not so present in the locker room, as long as a teammate delivers. But first Amanda Reiman returns to share how the cannabis regulatory framework is shaping up in Oakland and to provide an update on Prop 64.

Transcript:

Speaker 2: Pain management in pro sports, even Britain, Charlie aimes, nate Jackson, Riley, cody, former NFL and NHL athletes. Join a round table discussion with Heather Jackson of realm of caring and Dr Marcel von Miller of the University of Pennsylvania on pain management. We talk about how marijuana is currently being used by pro athletes. Despite the medicine being banned by all professional leagues, the athletes share to a person that the stigma associated with cannabis is not so present in the locker room as long as a teammate delivers, but first Amanda Reiman returns to share how the cannabis regulatory framework is shaping up in Oakland and to provide an update on prop 64. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handle. Can Economy, it's two ends of the world economy. And if you're into more direct communication, feel free to send me an email. How to engage a can academy.com athletes proceeded by Amanda. And so once

Speaker 1: again, it's Amanda Reiman time. Amanda. Hi. So this is the first time that we're not really sitting right next to each other. I'll give that away. Um, you know, and it's uh, it's disappointing, but we'll let suffer through it. Right? Professionals, I think we can do it indeed. All right, so we want to cover oakland. We want to cover prop 64. I think we haven't covered Oakland just yet and so it would be great for you to give us an overview of what's happening in cannabis in as we speak.

Speaker 3: Sure. Um, so there's a lot of really exciting things happening here in Oakland around cannabis regulations. You're the city of Oakland has always really been on the forefront of this issue of being one of the first cities in this state to license dispensary's after prop 215 passed a, they made an attempt to licensed cultivation a few years back and actually threatened by the federal government with rest if they continued on with their plan to license large scale cultivation and the city of Oakland. But now that we have the medical marijuana regulation and safety act, I feel that the city is finally ready to push ahead with its brand design for what cannabis regulation is going to look like in the city of Oakland. And you know, just to give some listeners out there, you know, some background, the city of Oakland is about 500,000 people. Uh, it's very ethnically diverse.

Speaker 3: Uh, we're about 25 percent African American population. It has been traditionally a city that is very much connected with social justice. Um, so the black panthers were started here. Uh, we saw a lot of union organizing around the port of Oakland, which is the largest port in California, which we have here in Oakland. So there's a lot of history of some social justice in the city and it's a fairly large city, um, but not as big as Los Angeles or San Francisco, which is about twice that size, actually. Interesting fun fact. Um, Oakland has half the population of San Francisco, but it's twice the geographic area. Yeah. Fun Fact Fun, right. Uh, so oakland has always been very friendly on the cannabis issue. Uh, as soon as the state level regulations were passed, the city council got to work looking at what that would look like for the city, given that the state regulations call on localities to develop their own licensing schemes.

Speaker 3: So, um, I sit on the cannabis regulatory commission for the city which was established under measure z a few years ago. Measure Z is the ordinance in Oakland that makes a private adult cannabis use the lowest enforcement priority for the police. And there's a few other jurisdictions in California that have also passed those ordinances. So we as a commission have been working with the city council to develop a regulatory scheme for the licensing of everything under the sun. Um, so we, you of course are going to looking at cultivation manufacturing, delivery, but also things like genetics, labs and nurseries, and so really innovative cannabis businesses. So the City Council recently passed an ordinance to license all of these types of businesses, save for brick and mortar dispensary's. Um, so kind of the deal is that Oakland right now has eight licensed brick and mortar dispensary's. Their plan is to double that number every year, so they're going to have an another eight that are going to be available every year, uh, for dispensary's.

Speaker 2: Pain management in pro sports, even Britain, Charlie aimes, nate Jackson, Riley, cody, former NFL and NHL athletes. Join a round table discussion with Heather Jackson of realm of caring and Dr Marcel von Miller of the University of Pennsylvania on pain management. We talk about how marijuana is currently being used by pro athletes. Despite the medicine being banned by all professional leagues, the athletes share to a person that the stigma associated with cannabis is not so present in the locker room as long as a teammate delivers, but first Amanda Reiman returns to share how the cannabis regulatory framework is shaping up in Oakland and to provide an update on prop 64. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handle. Can Economy, it's two ends of the world economy. And if you're into more direct communication, feel free to send me an email. How to engage a can academy.com athletes proceeded by Amanda. And so once

Speaker 1: again, it's Amanda Reiman time. Amanda. Hi. So this is the first time that we're not really sitting right next to each other. I'll give that away. Um, you know, and it's uh, it's disappointing, but we'll let suffer through it. Right? Professionals, I think we can do it indeed. All right, so we want to cover oakland. We want to cover prop 64. I think we haven't covered Oakland just yet and so it would be great for you to give us an overview of what's happening in cannabis in as we speak.

Speaker 3: Sure. Um, so there's a lot of really exciting things happening here in Oakland around cannabis regulations. You're the city of Oakland has always really been on the forefront of this issue of being one of the first cities in this state to license dispensary's after prop 215 passed a, they made an attempt to licensed cultivation a few years back and actually threatened by the federal government with rest if they continued on with their plan to license large scale cultivation and the city of Oakland. But now that we have the medical marijuana regulation and safety act, I feel that the city is finally ready to push ahead with its brand design for what cannabis regulation is going to look like in the city of Oakland. And you know, just to give some listeners out there, you know, some background, the city of Oakland is about 500,000 people. Uh, it's very ethnically diverse.

Speaker 3: Uh, we're about 25 percent African American population. It has been traditionally a city that is very much connected with social justice. Um, so the black panthers were started here. Uh, we saw a lot of union organizing around the port of Oakland, which is the largest port in California, which we have here in Oakland. So there's a lot of history of some social justice in the city and it's a fairly large city, um, but not as big as Los Angeles or San Francisco, which is about twice that size, actually. Interesting fun fact. Um, Oakland has half the population of San Francisco, but it's twice the geographic area. Yeah. Fun Fact Fun, right. Uh, so oakland has always been very friendly on the cannabis issue. Uh, as soon as the state level regulations were passed, the city council got to work looking at what that would look like for the city, given that the state regulations call on localities to develop their own licensing schemes.

Speaker 3: So, um, I sit on the cannabis regulatory commission for the city which was established under measure z a few years ago. Measure Z is the ordinance in Oakland that makes a private adult cannabis use the lowest enforcement priority for the police. And there's a few other jurisdictions in California that have also passed those ordinances. So we as a commission have been working with the city council to develop a regulatory scheme for the licensing of everything under the sun. Um, so we, you of course are going to looking at cultivation manufacturing, delivery, but also things like genetics, labs and nurseries, and so really innovative cannabis businesses. So the City Council recently passed an ordinance to license all of these types of businesses, save for brick and mortar dispensary's. Um, so kind of the deal is that Oakland right now has eight licensed brick and mortar dispensary's. Their plan is to double that number every year, so they're going to have an another eight that are going to be available every year, uh, for dispensary's.

Speaker 1: So then this is great news, isn't it?

Speaker 3: Oh, well, absolutely. Of course there are folks who want to see the dispensary market be completely open. Uh, but I understand the city wanting to take their time and to license those types of businesses as an, as on an, as needed basis, but they are very forward thinking in that the rest of the license categories are unlimited. So as long as you can find a space in Oakland that zoned appropriately for the type of business you want to do a, you can apply for license.

Speaker 1: Why do you think there is that distinction?

Speaker 3: Well, I mean, when you look at the distribution of cannabis versus say the manufacturing of cannabis products, you usually don't have the same type of concerns among the community about who is going to be accessing the cannabis, any kind of crime risk that might come from having a place where there's foot traffic and people coming in and out and purchasing cannabis. Um, so they kind of liken them to liquor stores and they think, well, we only want as many as we need. Right? And how many do we really need? And that's kind of been at the attitude around dispense reason. General. I think in most jurisdictions I feel that, you know, after prop 64 passes and we see the market open up to medical and nonmedical use, then communities are going to understand that having a cannabis dispensary isn't really the same as having a liquor store. It's more like having a holistic health alternative health center in your community.

Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like having a yoga studio,

Speaker 3: right? Or, or invaded studio or acupuncture or I'd have medicinal herb store. Um, and so I, I think that that will come, I think it's something that the public just has to really experience for themselves, but all of these other types of businesses we've never had out in the open before. We've never had state licensed edible manufacturers or concentrate makers. So I think that the city is saying, look, we have these types of activities that occur for other industries. We have people that are extracting things in Oakland. We have people who are cultivating things in Oakland. We have people who have nurseries in Oakland. So why can't we just take what we already do for those businesses and apply it to cannabis businesses? And really what that means is that you're zoned appropriately for the type of business you want to do, that you can pass a building and a fire inspection so that you're not causing any kind of safety hazard, Republic Health Hazard, and that you get your license and you pay taxes and you do anything else any licensed business does.

Speaker 3: And you know, we had the fire inspector and a building inspector pump to our commission meeting a few months ago. And what they kept reiterating was we're going to treat cannabis businesses in Oakland like any other business in Oakland and for people that have been working and be elicit industry for decades. I mean, this should be music to their ears, you know, the fact that they are now looked at as someone else who's doing the exact same thing they are by the city instead of being looked at as a pariah or somebody that's a criminal. Um, so it really is progress. And so that's kind of where Oakland is in terms of the licensing. But then we have this whole other layer which is the Oakland equity program. So as I mentioned, Oakland has a very long history of social and racial justice. It's really built into who we are as a community.

Speaker 3: We also have a large representation of people of Color in the city of Oakland, but like other communities, we still see racially disparate policing happening even here in Oakland. So as I mentioned, uh, African Americans make up 25 percent of the population at Oakland. They make up about 77 percent of the people that get tickets for marijuana in the city of Oakland. Doesn't make sense. No, it doesn't. That makes sense at all. And furthermore, we find that most of this policing around marijuana is happening in certain police beats around the city, pretty much east Oakland and West Oakland. And so we're seeing the majority of tickets being given out to African American men in those police jurisdictions. So the city, you know, being as socially justice minded as they are thought to themselves, you know, with this marijuana legalization coming and with these business opportunities coming, we really want to ensure that one, these business opportunities go to people who live in Oakland and that too.

Speaker 3: We set aside business opportunities for people that have been most impacted by marijuana prohibition and recognizing the damage that has been done by these laws and the loss of opportunity that has occurred. And is there a way to give these opportunities back to people that have been most impacted. So, you know, unbelievably groundbreaking idea right there. There is no jurisdiction elsewhere in the world that has attempted to funnel marijuana businesses towards people that have been most impacted by the drug war. And um, you may or may not know, but here in California a few years ago, we passed this pesky initiative called prop two. Oh, nine. Which outlaws? Affirmative action in the state of California. So then how do those two things square? Well, that's the one, that's the problem, right? So how do we create a program where we're giving first opportunity people that have been most impacted, which we know are people of Color, single whip mothers, but yet we are not allowed to set aside licenses specifically for them.

Speaker 3: So what it becomes, and this is something that other jurisdictions in California or even the state of California is going to have to think about, is what is a proxy for that population? Who can we give preference to that will cover most of that population that we're trying to get at? So how we went about it and Oakland, and this is still a huge point of contention whether this was the right way to go, is we said that if you. There's basically two ways to qualify for Oakland's equity program. One is that you live in one of these police speeds that has been most heavily policed for marijuana for the past two years now. Unfortunately right now they're just starting with East Oakland, US folks in West Oakland or pushing for them to add us as well because we've also had the same experience as a. But right now it's just east Oakland.

Speaker 3: So that's the first way you can get in. The second way is if you've been incarcerated for marijuana in the city of Oakland in the past 10 years. So if you meet one of those criteria and you have a business plan in which you're 50 percent owner in that business, you can apply for an equity license and the program is going to go such that there's a one to one equity for non-equity match in business licenses. So for every business license they give to a cannabis business that is from a non-equity applicant, they have to give one to someone who's an equity applicant.

Speaker 1: Amazing. It's like super expungement. It goes beyond expungement if you, you know, as far as cannabis penalties. Right.

Speaker 3: That's the idea. Right? So the idea is that it's not enough just to say, okay, you don't have a record anymore, that it actually we have to say okay and you get priority to take part in this new industry both as an employee, but even more importantly as an owner. I think the biggest criticisms of the program have not been the goal of the program, which is to have this happen. I think everyone agrees with that. The criticisms have been that the criteria selected are too narrow and that we're going to get into a situation where we have like 100 people from the non equity side turning in applications and like 20 people from the equity side turning in applications only because the criteria are so narrow and because there's no type of bridge education for people who are qualified who need to learn business plans.

Speaker 3: And, um, you know, how to raise capital and how to vet investors. I mean, you know, there's a lot that goes into starting a business and if you're an individual who's written recently released from prison, maybe working with the ged a hasn't been able to access higher education because of financial issues. You may not be in the position to start a business that's going to be successful. And I think what we don't want to see are people getting licenses through the equity program, putting their life savings into a business that closes a year later. Uh, so, you know, as part of the cannabis commission, we are working with the city council on how to make this program the best it can be. And it may not be the best at first and we may have to learn. But the fact that Oakland's willing to take this on and is willing to create something that perhaps can be modeled not only in other cities in California, but I am thinking Baltimore, Detroit, DC. Um, you know, I think that the potential is huge. Um, and I'm, I'm really hopeful that we will find our way. Although it may be a rocky start.

Speaker 4: Okay, excellent. So, so there's Oakland. You named checked mmrs. Say and you name check prop 64. Let's go ahead and dive in on prop 64 a. it's before election day. So what needs to be done? Where are we in this whole, uh, situation? How's it all going?

Speaker 3: Well, things are going well. I mean, it's, it's a heavy lift. I have to say, I mean, me personally, you know, I've worked with campaigns before, you know, they're doing outreach. I've never worked as closely with a campaign and it is a very difficult thing to do to move a state of 38 million people around a common cause. Uh, you know, California is extremely diverse. We're no Colorado Washington or Oregon or Alaska. Um, you know, we have as many different viewpoints as you can imagine, right? So there's targeted outreach that has to happen to each of these groups because what moves them on legalization and what's important to their communities is going to be different. Whether you're talking about parents specifically or whether you're talking about the faith community or whether you're talking about, you know, the Latino community, you know, there's a lot of different belief systems that we're working with. So if things are going well though, we had polling that came out, I believe a few weeks ago from the Public Policy Institute of California that shows about 60 percent overall support with 69 percent among democrats a 45 percent among republicans, but gains in every demographic group, especially amongst seniors. Uh, there's been a lot of attention paid recently to the benefits that seniors can get from cannabis. So I think that they're educating themselves on the issue and better understanding the pitfalls of prohibition. So that's been very interesting to see.

Speaker 4: Yeah, we just spoke to sue Taylor about that precise thing. Alright, so polling looks good. Yes. You've got a lot of work to do. You've got a lot of different people to speak to, um, in ways that they can appreciate your message. Um, but uh, but it sounds, at least so far so good.

Speaker 3: I would say so far so good. You know, we're just starting to see the opposition really ramp up with their messaging. There was an article out, uh, I think that, you know, the, the kind of, the big opposition besides law enforcement is Kevin Sabet and uh, uh, and company with smart approaches to marijuana and so, you know, they have about $2,000,000 in their coffers to spread across the five states that are considering cannabis. Um, but you know, their messaging, interestingly enough, kind of overlaps with the people who claim to love marijuana but also say they're voting no on prop 64. So, you know, there's opposition makes strange bedfellows. And my hope is that folks who care about say they care about marijuana and marijuana legalization and that they don't want to see people go to jail and that they want to see us move past prohibition will realize that waiting for the perfect initiative is playing into the hands of law enforcement and everybody else who says that the legalization should never happen. Um, so, you know, I think that they should take a hard look at what the opposition is saying and decide whether that's who they want to be aligned with.

Speaker 4: Right? If they want to sound like that even. Yeah. Okay. Good. So I guess in, in let's not get ahead of ourselves, what we'll do is we'll check back with you in terms of opposition and how all that, uh, kind of lines up maybe in about a month. What do you think about that?

Speaker 3: I think that sounds great.

Speaker 4: Okay. And then I guess the only thing that we need to accomplish, um, or the only other thing that we need to accomplish is let's ask the soundtrack question for today. So, on the soundtrack of Amanda Rymans life today, what's one track? One song that's got to be on there.

Speaker 3: Okay. So you're going to think I'm totally cheesy

Speaker 5: now. I do know I, I never could, but I have to say, well, this song that has

Speaker 3: then kind of like flying through my head over the past week has been at the mighty Quinn.

Speaker 4: Oh, well when, when the Eskimo gets there, everyone, everybody's going to jump for joy.

Speaker 3: Yes. Yes. And it is partially because that is my boyfriend's last name.

Speaker 5: Well, okay. That's what makes it. I see what you're saying. It makes it a little cheesy. I don't. And I already knew the song, like I already liked the song, but for some,

Speaker 3: a reason it's just, I don't know if there's some kind of connection there. So that's, that's kind of my soundtrack for today.

Speaker 4: Um, listen, come on without. Come on within. You ain't seen nothing like the mighty Quinn.

Speaker 5: Exactly. Amanda Reiman. Thank you so much. Pleasure. Anytime

Speaker 2: this episode is also supported by consumer soft face it, your life starts and stops with your multiple devices. Technologies, the centrifical force of running your life or your small business. Chaos ensues. If a device fails you, whether it be for your laptop, apple or android device, consumer soft as immediately available through my phone, support for consumers and technical support, live for businesses, get fast, professional assistance 24 hours a day, seven days a week, move that feeling of panic when something goes wrong. Call eight five, five, six, nine, eight, three, two, four, one. Or go to consumer soft.com. So if a. all right, so we're good. This huge thing. Yes, it's on. You can listen to it through the headphones if you'd like, but you don't have to.

Speaker 6: Okay. So I'm gonna mess up my hair soft. It might mess up Frodo hair. Yeah, exactly. All right. So. So this is a little bit chaotic, but Heather Jackson from realm of caring. Hello again. Hi Seth. You've brought friends. Alright. So what we're gonna do is we're going to go around kind of the room here. Understand who's here and why they're here. Um, it's just a bunch of big dudes is what I'm noticing. Alright. So first things first name and former occupation. My name is nate Jackson and I used to play in the NFL for six years. Okay. A position and teams wide receiver and tight end. Denver Broncos. Alright. So Denver Broncos, superbowl champions I think. Yep, you're correct. There you go. Um, we're going to go to the next person and then we're going to come back to why you're here. Alright, next person. My name is Riley, former Philadelphia Flyer, NHL hockey player. Right. Currently coaching the flyers, minor league team, Lehigh Valley Phantoms, Lehigh Valley Phantom. Is that dumps. Oh, it's phantom. Interesting. Okay. Alright. So, uh, and next, here we go. My name is Charlie Adams, uh, played football for the Denver Broncos and the Houston Texans from o two, two. Oh, seven. Played wide receiver and kick returner. And so you know who Gary Kubiak is? I do know. And here we go. Next. Yeah.

Speaker 7: Hi, my name is Eben Britain. They played six years in the NFL as an offensive lineman with the Jaguars and the bears.

Speaker 6: Alright, so out of the big guys you're like, uh, the bigger guy, the biggest. You're the biggest. Okay, fair enough. So we're here at a cannabis event. You guys are professional, former professional, uh, uh, you know, players, but like Marine Zeros, professional sportsmen. Why are you here? I haven't,

Speaker 7: uh, I'm here because I believe the people, whether you're a professional athlete or not, should have the option to use a natural alternative like cannabis for variety of health reasons. So that's all right.

Speaker 6: Pain management. I would imagine

Speaker 7: management definitely at the top of that list. Now

Speaker 6: let's just go ahead and jump in on the NFL and pain management. You know, how many folks do you think, how many guys during the season are using cannabis for pain management? Percentage wise?

Speaker 7: At least 50.

Speaker 6: All right. And then there's agreement there and uh, were you one of those people?

Speaker 7: I was the, I was one of those.

Speaker 6: Okay. And so were your teammates at the time? Did they look at you funny? Did they understand? Did they realize that it worked? What was the sense for me inside?

Speaker 7: I think that in the locker room, the senses, you know, guys leave each other alone and whatever. Everyone deals with things differently and as long as you're there to showing up to work every day, every morning, you know, ready to work,

Speaker 6: make the heads, make the tackles on. Nobody's asking

Speaker 7: questions, nobody cares what you're doing. Right? It's about being a professional and you know, if that, if cannabis was something that you liked or enjoyed doing and you'd rather do that than take all the pills then. I mean, it was so be it. That's what was your method

Speaker 6: that was, that was that. So, uh, so as far as pain management? Yeah, exactly. Charlie, um, you, you said you, you know, you, you saw 50 percent at least. At least I would say that. And you were kind of one of those guys, but not really. I dabbled a little bit when I played. I wasn't, definitely wasn't spoken every day. Something that towards the end of my career I dabbled in a little more so because I saw benefits in it, but I was never a pill guy. I didn't like taking a lot of pills, painkillers or, and I had to take a lot of antiinflammatories, things like that, but never a fan of it, you know, so it's nice to have an option. I'm with them and I'm like, you know, there has to be another option. If we in America, the land of the free water and we have that option, you know, why are we forced to take things that hurt us and things that don't make us healthier.

Speaker 6: So fair enough. You feel mentally and physically we're kindred spirits in that way. You, you did mention besides pain management, there's a whole lot of other injuries and you know, I'm dealing with pain and all sorts of pain. Talk about what, uh, what other, what other former players you know are dealing with, you know, besides just pain man writes a lot of mental health issues with guys that I played with guys that I came in with and played with for several years at a, you know, for several years. You know, I've seen a noticeable change and a lot of guys especially at on the downside of their career after retirement and then the next few years I think are the toughest and you know, guys don't know what to do, where to turn and then, you know, yeah, it's physical pain and mental issues and you know, these guys have sliding down a path that they do not want to be on.

Speaker 6: So you know, anything that can stop that is something I want to be a part of. Kind of a spike, spike, that road type of thing. All right, so as far as hockey is concerned, um, sounds like internally, you know, cannabis for pain management or otherwise was kind of turned a blind eye. Everybody was doing whatever they, you know, as long as you're making the hits, making the tackles. What about in hockey, Riley? Well, I think it's lands have being the same thing. I think the bottom line and sports is the business of winning, so I mean as long as you show up the practice, show up the games and it's not noticeable

Speaker 4: wherever you do. Obviously you cannabis is nothing like alcohol, nothing like opiates, but people seem to lump them all in together when you talk about substances. But um, to me it's about, it's about freedom and, and the ability for all people. Athletes are not veterans or not to have access to this plant and it's a, there's a huge disconnect with the, you know, the natural world and healing and we're so brainwashed into believing that pills are going to magically a talk about that huge disconnect. What do you mean? Well, I mean all around, whether it's our foods generally can modify organisms, cannabis prohibition, I mean we already know it's medicine and we're trying to prove it all over again. I mean it was in the US Pharmacopoeia for over a hundred years. So I mean, to me this seems silly that we're even having this conversation in 2016 when we can put people on different planets and we have all have iphones and smart tablets and all this stuff, but we can't get it right when it comes to a plant.

Speaker 4: You know what I mean? So to me it's a, it's much bigger than cannabis, this fight and it's, you know, what freedoms and uh, and, and healing the right way. I mean, people have been doing this for thousands of years. Why are we reinventing the wheel? So I mean, yeah, it's this much, much deeper. But um, again, it, it, who've, why, why are they playing God and telling us we can encounter incarcerating people for this thing. And it's a, it seems that people play God because they can. I think it is exactly, exactly. You know, the abuse power and all in the name of science and business, I mean, but uh, it's affecting a lot of people on the health end of it as well as the incarceration, incarceration, individ. I mean, absolutely putting people in prison. So you are a big picture kind of guy. You are seeing all aspects eyes.

Speaker 4: I think so. I mean as far as the kind of the long arm of the law and you know, playing God. What about the drug testing in the NHL around cannabis? You know, um, I think you mentioned before we started that you hesitated a little bit at least. Well, I think it should be removed. I mean you shouldn't be tested for, for, you should be tested for alk on opiates. I mean, you know what I mean? If you want to be maybe what you call a spade a spade and talk about destructive substances and how they affect and an effect your decision making an impairment and all that stuff. But I mean at the end of the day, it's, that should be removed, doesn't, it doesn't affect anybody besides in a positive way as far as healing, recovery, stress management, sleeping pain management, the antiinflammatories for the brain and all that good stuff.

Speaker 4: I mean, it's, it's a medicine for many different reasons. It's not just one specific thing. It's for, for all people. So I mean there will be. It's like, well, what the hell are we doing? Well, we just saw Gary Johnson was over there, but I think Riley cody maybe for, for president. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah. Maybe 20, 20. I mean that's what we're looking at. I got one policy. Right. That's it. That's it. So Nate Jackson, any relation to Heather Jackson? No. Okay. So, you know, how are you into this whole thing? Pain management, you know, what, what, where do you come, uh, were you coming from? Well, I think it's an individual preference type of thing. Um, some guys don't prefer it as a method to recover from injury, but some guys do. And I was one of those guys I've ever since I was in high school.

Speaker 4: That's when I started experimenting with it. It coincided with my football career and what I would get, you know, it started off social for me in high school. There was social in college. It started to, I started to see its benefits with pain and the things I was going through physically ready on the football field. Yeah, absolutely. You know, after I played division three football and um, I, I kind of a pretty big jump from division three to the, to the league. It's a big jump. Wow. I caught a lot of passes and I was getting hit a lot after the games. I'll be really sore. I'll be really in bad shape and I would, I would smoke and they would help me a lot. Uh, recover from that. And I'd be back in practice Monday ready to go. And when I got to the NFL I started getting a lot of pretty severe injuries, bones or muscles popping off the bone breaks, you know, dislocation, surgeries, really legitimate injuries that you get bottles of pills thrown at you for.

Speaker 4: And it happens in every nfl locker room and every nhl locker room, college locker rooms, even a high school locker rooms now they're being inundated with pills. But what I found was a lot of my teammates used marijuana and I did as well. They shunned that, uh, the pill kind of mentality and medicated on their own. And when you get to the NFL, these guys who were in the NFL and in the NHL, they're the best in the world at what they do. They're the absolute cream of the crop and they are using marijuana as a recipe for what? For being the best. Right. So who are we to tell them that they cannot use that thing, especially when it's more effective than the sum of all the parts of the western medicine or the health care system that these teams have going. I can medicate on my own with an Irb at home and it works better for me.

Speaker 4: I don't turn it into a pill junkie. I don't feel sluggish. I can sleep at night. My healing is fast, my swelling is not bad. Yeah. My mind is intact. You know, I think it's a mental thing for a lot of these guys to do you want, do you want your players, at least in the NFL, they don't want their players thinking for themselves and having a choice. Yeah. It's not about choice. Football's about shut up and play, right. Follow though you these orders, you know, these memorize these plays. Yeah. These are the rules. And what we're finding in panels like this is football players feeling empowered to actually speak their own personal truth, which is discouraged in the system. So this provides that platform. I should, you mentioned,

Speaker 8: by the way that we're in the, uh, Ulriksen all a press booth and they've been kind enough to grant us this table in these chairs. I believe they said their web address was Elix and [inaudible] dot com. This is, I mean, as far as mentions, I think we did it. All right. So, so heather, you also brought another friend because we got these wacky athletes, right, who all they have is the proof that have their own, you know, uh, using of cannabis that it actually did help them. Um, but, you know, these are just athletes that have proof. Um, I was just a mom, right? The little proof to kids here today. Okay. All right. So I think that the whole, the whole point is yeah, you know, it's not very scientific but it's real. It's happening. And so we wanted to get some research accomplished, um, with folks that are brilliant in the field, have done it for, you know, decades who've published, you know, hundreds of, of peer reviewed articles.

Speaker 8: Those are, you know, we need to, we need to gather the data, we need to get the science done. And so, um, you know, I started talking with Dr Marcel von Miller, um, and he said, what can we, what can we do in this space? How can we discover if, if folks that have used, if players who have used cannabinoid therapy or having better outcomes now through their career, because I've met players who don't look like this. Yeah, I mean they walked through the door and you can recognize them. They are, they are not in good shape physically or mentally to know. I've talked with their wife's, they're not in good shape and so to me that's just like, that's just like the families that we, it's the same families we serve at realm of caring people who are dealing with neurological neurodegenerative diseases and disorders that are affecting their quality of life and that matters to us that the realm of caring.

Speaker 8: So we did a fundraiser, raised 100,000 bucks and we're gonna get some research done with Marcel and his colleague. I'm a 100,000. What do you mean? Yeah, that's a real number. 100,000 dollars, which is nothing in the research world is it? Not Enough? I mean it's a, it's a good, it's a good start. And in and Eugene Monroe who's been pretty vocal. I'm current on the Ravens now, right? He was, he was actually released yesterday, yesterday. Look at them. So they cited a few reasons. Um, one was, you know, him being very vocal, vocal about cannabis that was on, that was one of them. Another reason of course is, I mean he didn't play last season, right? They own six point $4 million or something this season. So they. But you know, there's definitely cannabis was mentioned so. Right.

Speaker 6: Interesting. As a reason we're using. Did you just find that out with me? I knew he got released, but I did not know that day. I didn't know that they mentioned marijuana. Amazing. Very disappointing. So that's a, it's a. But are you amazed you don't see my name at all? I just do. I'm amazed that they said it. I'm just, I'm not amazed that they released him. I'm just kind of shocked that they mentioned that and isn't that now? Now let's, let's, let's talk about that and that in the state. Do you think that they mentioned it? Maybe because hey, other guys don't say anything.

Speaker 7: I mean, I'm, I'm really good friends with Eugene. We were drafted together. Um, you know, when I introduced him to Ryan over at Charlotte's web and you know, Eugene is incredibly passionate. He's holistically minded as to kids as a family man. You know, his wife runs an organic food truck. I mean, they're active in the community and this is a guy basically willing to shout from the rooftops about the medicinal benefits or potential medicinal benefits, at least at this point for football players. I'm marcel talk more about that stuff, but you know, the NFL, they're not looking for guys who speak their mind. They don't want guys who were willing to go against the grain. Just very. No, it's, it's discouraged. And this is in my opinion, you know, one of the ways that it's discouraged. You have a job one day and it's incredibly femoral, you know, having a contract with an NFL team that it'll float away just, you know, in a second, like you can see what happened with Eugene and I know he'll be all right, but, you know, it's, it's discouraging to see that type of reaction to something that's so positive.

Speaker 7: That can be. So

Speaker 4: anyway, it's only been the past couple of weeks that he's been, you know, out there a couple of months ago. Oh, okay. So it is, it is that far back, you know, that uh, he's been, he's been out there, but that is only a few months. That's not, that's after the superbowl, so it's before the next season. So it's one off season still, right? Yeah. And he had a little bit of support early on from, from the owner of the team saying, you know, Eugene is a smart guy and uh, we support him calling for this research. You know, I don't know if Eugene actually consumes the plant, but he has, he doesn't talk like he does and he, he talks about research and he talks about medicine. He doesn't use those trigger words that scare people. Right. So he's done it in a really smart way, but he's done it in a very aggressive way and football and the NFL is about creating this bubble where nothing exists except football in this world and everything outside of it is a distraction. So if you have an idea about something else or you have something you're passionate about and you start to talk about it and it starts to get connected with the team. Yeah. Then your days are numbered really because you saw this coming. None of you are kind of surprised by it.

Speaker 8: His tweet says, um, which was a couple of hours ago. I will not be returning to the ravens this season. It's never easy moving on. I Love Baltimore and its fans, but this is all part of the game despite the current uncertainty. Certainties. One thing is for sure, whatever happens in terms of my professional football career, I will not stop pushing for the league to accept medical cannabis as a viable option for pain management. I'll do everything that I can to ensure generations of NFL players after me won't have to resort to harmful and addictive opiates as their only option for pain management. I've been working hard this off season to recover from my injuries. I'm cleared to play and I'm excited to get back on the field and come.

Speaker 4: Awesome. That is fantastic. That is great that he's. I'm not giving up. Also interesting that that is 140 characters. Sounded like a lot more, but uh, it, it's okay.

Speaker 8: Maybe instagram. I probably lied. I couldn't do that sometimes. So Evan,

Speaker 4: you mentioned Ryan at, uh, at um, uh, you know, at Charlotte's Web, we also have Ryan Vandrey who's been on, who's working with you, kind of hand in hand, Marcel, um, as far as the research is concerned, heather brought us into it. You take us home, what is actually happening, what kind of findings well are finding.

Speaker 9: We're starting up the studies now and we're really interested in looking at both current and former players and the effects of cannabis and specific types of cannabinoids on recovery from pain and injury. Um, and so, you know, we got this donation as heather mentioned for $100,000, which is great and a really great start. And so we've got two studies that are going to be starting up in the next couple months, um, where we're going to be tracking players, you know, we're going to be tracking current players during the course of the season and we're going to be interviewing former players about their use

Speaker 4: and how many, how many, um, current players are you going to be tracking as many as we possibly can? And that'll be anonymous as far as the study is.

Speaker 9: Absolutely. So we had a lot of conversations as we were getting this off the ground about the importance of confidentiality, particularly among current players. Right? I mean nobody wants to get kicked out and that's why I think a lot of people aren't talking about it. So you know, we've gone through great strides to make it so that there's nobody that's going to know who these players are, but we still need the data. And so this is, this is the first step. This is an observational study and what we're planning on doing, you know, depending on the findings and depending on what we see, then follow it forward with clinical trials where we can actually say, you know, and, and be able to isolate out it's this cannabinoid or it's this combination of cannabinoids. It's really helpful. That should be used as an alternative because, you know, as everybody said here, opioids are not the greatest. A lot of people don't do well on them. Um, and we need alternative medicines. And there's cannabinoids out there that really are not that harmful at all. CBD, not addictive, you know, has been shown to reduce pain, reduce inflammation, you know, I mean these are things that we need to be focused on and um, yeah, I'm excited about the science.

Speaker 4: Absolutely. And thank you for doing it. And Heather, as far as connecting the dots, you know, now what you and I have spoken about in an hour, only two conversations, many more off mic, but you're connecting the dots between children with epilepsy and really big dudes that have some pain and it's the same solution and no one's getting

Speaker 8: and it tips the scales. So I'm just, I'm a mom and that's it and I have been screaming from the mountain tops for four years. It took Eugene a couple of months and now there's this national conversation that's happening. You see what I mean? So I will absolutely capitalize on that opportunity because I know it's going to help you know, thousands of others. The football players. Absolutely. The hockey players. Absolutely. Anyone who's getting their bell rung, absolutely. But the families that I serve everyday, you know, the, the kids who, they have a faith that will happen. It's neurodegenerative in nature and they're, they're gonna pass away. And so if we add that, I'll continue to connect the dots to all day long.

Speaker 4: There we go. So Marcel, as far as the study is concerned, it will be through the entire season when, when will we see results?

Speaker 9: Yeah, we shouldn't have results. I mean we'll have results on former players sooner than we'll have on current players because the former players study's going to be a little bit. Yeah.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Because they can't get kicked

Speaker 9: out, right? Yeah. Um, no. The, the, the study on current player is, we're just going to do it through this upcoming season is the plan and so we should have results early, early 2017,

Speaker 8: so they can't get kicked out, but they still have deals. They still have endorsements and they can still lose those. And I know players who've lost those and that's why we have to, I can't believe we're still having this conversation, but getting to the current player, maybe we don't want to share that strategy now, but just the network of current players that were already servicing. Um, so, you know, confidentially, there are definitely current players who were using what about the union? So we tried to get there. The NFL players association. Yes, yes.

Speaker 9: Yeah, we're in discussions were chatting with, we're chatting with folks to try to see if we can have an alignment because I think, you know, everybody wants to see the science move forward and I think there's genuine curiosity and you know, it was, I just came back from a meeting this past couple of days where there's been, you know, a bunch of people that have been looking at synergy between cannabis and opioids. And so even if we didn't look at this as a replacement, they're actually showing that can actually really help paint effects among people that are using low dose opioids, which are lower risk. So, I mean, I think there's a lot of potential here of really trying to understand it. Um, but you know, we need cooperation and that's what we're trying to get.

Speaker 4: So you. Yeah, go ahead. I was gonna say what about the brain injury stuff because pain, pain management is one thing, but the implications that that cannabis might actually protect the brain in advance of a brain injury and help you it afterwards has huge implications for the NFL. I mean it could prevent concussions. I, I used a while. I played, I smashed heads for a living. My brain feels good. My, your brain feeling right. These guys, I mean the guys who use it I think are mentally healthier than those who don't and would be less likely to sue the league for concussion negligence would need less medication. Pain pills. I mean, I think there's a lot of implications about like what it can do for the brain and nfl should be behind that. That's something that benefits them a lot. It will cost them less. It'll benefit them more. What are we missing? Right? Yeah, exactly,

Speaker 9: and that's why we're looking at folks over time, right? That's why if we track folks during the course of a season, we can see people that are using cbd for example, before they get hit, how do they recover compared to people who aren't doing that and that's why we designed the study. It's super important and we really don't. I mean it's all anecdotal at this point, you know, which is super important, right? That gives us the ideas of all right, now we gotta start, you know, putting the science down, getting it down on paper and so that we can start showing the world what's going on.

Speaker 6: Amazing. And then to speak on what nate was saying, it's like, and governor Johnson was saying it's like these unintended consequences of a lot of things. I think there's a lot of unintended benefits of allowing people to use marijuana. Like Nancy saving a lot of money down the road cost that will not be encouraged. Billions of dollars. It's going to be, you know, when this generation of people comes through, it's going to be billions of dollars. It's gonna cost, the NFL, you know, you can save a lot of that. So they should want this. Right.

Speaker 8: Excellent. Go ahead. And the other day I feel like it's a gift to them. I, they just, they really need to open it up, but I really feel like it is. Of course it is. So, so a couple things as far as gifting a, how can we make donations to get to the research that you guys are doing? So I'm on our website, www dot the rock dotu , s t h e r o c.us/bright lights. That's the campaign donations made through there would go directly to Iraq, the Institute for Research on Canabinoids, which Marcel is the executive director of. Good. Um, and so we can further the research. So the more than $100,000 is a lot of money, but we want to get more of that clinical research done. So we want to take a look at biological specimens. We want to take a look at inflammation markers.

Speaker 8: We want to look at, you know, validated measures and in their labs and all of those things we need more money for. So if you donate that way, um, www dot [inaudible] dot us slash bright lights, it will go directly to that campaign. Excellent. And you mentioned endorsements being pulled. I do want to point out what we'll do is if you eat, if you guys each have twitter handles, we're going, we'll post this with your twitter handles and if anyone in the cannabis industry that has a company that needs a spokesperson, maybe we'll get some endorsement deals going through this. How does that sound? Sounds all right. All right. So Evan, um, you know, we traditionally ask a three final questions. We'll just limit it to one because I am seeing that you guys are interested in the subject but not necessarily interested in me yammering on anymore. So we're going to ask a final question to each of you. And it's a big one on the

Speaker 4: track of your life. One track, one song that's got to be on their ebbed first born on the Bayou by CCR. Wow. I was born in New York City, but my blood boils every time I hear it. Here we go. Born on the Bayou. All right. Uh, that's a tough question, but I really like renegade by Jay z and imminent, one of my favorite songs of all. Here we go. And uh, my, my mother

Speaker 8: used to drive a 1978 cj seven renegade. So that is how you and she are connected.

Speaker 4: Yeah, there you go. Exactly. I'm going to be a little bit different and go with a white fire by stick figure. I don't know what that is. Yeah, like I look them up. All right, so what w, what genre? It's alright. Yeah, we'll check it out. Check it out nate. I'll say what? I got sublime. Oh sure. What that means? About 40 under that you are 37. Oh, okay. Fair enough. Yeah, my nephew. Yeah. Alright. If you have to. Yeah, exactly. Uh, I, I don't practice Santeria. Yeah. But do you have a ball? I didn't. Exactly.

Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't. Incidentally, heather, your song, you already asked me this question. I know what this is the same system, the same song. Still the same song. So it's Ben Harper, don't Ben. We're on a first name basis. It's sad and it's changed the world with your own two hands. Right? That's my song. It could also my jam. There we go. It could also be ground on down. Could also be burned down a marcel, bring yourself and let's talk about this name. Where are you from with Marcel? Bond Miller. I mean this is like a name. My Mom's from Germany, from the US. So is this hyphenated thing going on? And my mom likes France. That's how I got the Marcel Frankel file. That's what that is. Exactly. So the song

Speaker 10: man,

Speaker 8: I don't know the first thing that's popped out. So much stuff, but I guess I'm the universe by Gregory Allen Eyes. Oh, I don't know that. I what? What? Uh, what kind of, uh, Gregory Allen. I don't know that, you know, isn't that a great friends with the Stanley's? Actually, there you go. I seen him like from little shows and now he's going to build enough. But I love this stuff actually. Terrific. There we go.

Speaker 6: We could, if we could accomplish one thing by the end of the year will end it actually. Seriously. Evan, what would that be?

Speaker 7: If we can accomplish one thing by the end of the, there I think it would be to get the NFL to at least look at marijuana as a legitimate medicinal opportunity

Speaker 6: maybe through the players' union is, is well, you know, one of the ways in Charlie,

Speaker 6: I agree with that too. I just think it needs to be, you know, outside of the NFL needs to be a more national discussion right around election time or you know, campaign times, you know, saying whatever they need to say to get people excited, but an actual conversation where it's really addressed how it should be studied and then, you know, changing the class of the, of marijuana. So it's, so it can be studied in a dea schedule by the way. Not rescheduled just in case you're asked Scott. All right. I think for me it's lifting the global band on medical cannabis or industrial hemp. It's not exclusive to the U. S I mean this is a global problem and policy that needs to be fixed. And um, I think the NHL and nfl, everyone follows suit once that happens. I mean, you know what I mean, we're not going to lead the way in the sports world. I mean we're going to be secondary and third one once, then once the band's lifted. So to me it's a, it's more education. I think we all know as keep talking, keep talking. Obviously revolution going on. People are becoming educated, but I

Speaker 4: mean it's a cad cam come quick enough and that's it. We continue how these discussions and we know the answer to it seems crazy, but it's a global global issue, not just the American one. Amazing. Nate. Yeah, I think it's the dea scheduling that you're talking about. Would it be great because the NFL is not going to lead the charge on a social issue. You know what I mean? They'll always be able to point back to that, that schedule one, a scheduling or whatever and they'll be able to point back to that. It's illegal. And if the federal government starts to stop, soften his stance, then these teams might feel more comfortable kind of massaging their rules and re and reevaluating their laws. There we go. And, uh, I think we are all one in our fandom of the phantoms now. Good luck this year. All right. We're behind you. And uh, I, it's that. It's that second line that you guys have. They're going to be nice. There we go, guys. Thanks so much again. We'll put the handles out there. Anybody wants to send endorsements your way? Let's hope that that happens. Anybody wants to donate to the, uh, research that Marcel's doing a. let's have that go on. And as far as Heather Jackson, here's tell Heather Jackson, forgetting. Sorry about that. Thank you so much. And there you have pain management in pro sports.

Speaker 2: Thank you so much to heather Jackson to Dr Marcel von Miller to even Britain, to Charlie atoms, to nate Jackson, to Riley cody and of course to Amanda Reiman. Great conversations all around, very interested to see what happens as we go here as far as pain management in pro sports. And of course thanks to you, thank you for listening.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.