Ep.190: Debby Goldsberry & Barbara Blazer, Magnolia Wellness

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.190: Debby Goldsberry & Barbara Blazer, Magnolia Wellness

Ep.190: Debby Goldsberry & Barbara Blazer, Magnolia Wellness

Barbara Blazer, mother of Debby Goldsberry and RN at Magnolia joins us to discuss her philosophy on cannabis. She shares her very first experience with cannabis and what exactly she’s doing now to educate fellow boomers. Programming note- we do a quick change after Barbara and we’re in the main room at Magnolia so it’s active around us. Following her mother, Debby Goldsberry then brings us through her journey which of course includes the early days of cannabis legalization advocacy. Debby shares how Barbara, civics class and redirect helped lead her to the being on the road with Jack Herer among other familiar notables. And Debby reminds us that after election day is when the actual work begins on legislation passed.


Speaker 1: Barbara Blazer and Debbie Goldsberry, Barbara Blazer, mother, Debbie Goldsberry, and rn and Magnolia joins us to discuss our philosophy on cannabis and share her very first experience with cannabis and what exactly she's doing now to educate fellow bloomers programming. Note, we do a quick change after Barbara and we're in the main room at Magnolia, so it's active around us following her mother, Debbie Goldsberry then brings us through her journey, which of course includes the early days of cannabis legalization. Advocacy. Debbie shares how Barbara Civics class in rhetoric helped lead her to being on the road with Jack Herrera, among other familiar notables, and Debbie reminds us that after election day is when the actual work begins on legislation pass. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handicapped economy. It's two n's in the word economy. Tell the truth and follow the science. Debbie goldsberry proceeded by Barbara Blazer.

Speaker 2: All right, so, so, um, in Magnolia. Welcome to Magnolia. Here we are inside the dispensary. That's Debbie goldsberry. Hi, I'm Barbara, Barbara Goldsberry. I'm actually Barbara Blazer, Debbie's mom. And so the first thing I said to Barbara Blazer, who's a registered nurse by the way and newly employed here at. Absolutely. Congratulations. Uh, was that your last name is blazer and for this industry that is A. I don't know if it's ironic or if it's appropriate. I think it's appropriate actually. I always think I should find one of those names, like on the websites people have and I started to name some of them, but they have these really fancy, fancy names, but if blazers famous on there, you got it. You don't even need to change a thing. Well, and we didn't even talk. My middle name's for.

Speaker 2: This is exactly why I wanted to kind of take the first few minutes here knowing that this is Debbie goldsberry his mother, and talk a little bit. Now you're a registered nurse and now you're in a magnolia working here. When did you get turned onto the fact that cannabis was actually medicine? Well, probably I've known for years and years and years, but as a registered nurse, my last job I was the director of a hospice and the hospice I would see patients on Fridays and just to verify they had their meds and things and we'd have ladies anxious, crying, tearing their clothes, very frightened and I'd go back in on Monday to check on them and they'd be, Hey Barbara, how was your weekend? And I would say, did you have company? And their grandson would have brought them brownies and they were now eating and smiling and not anxious.

Speaker 2: So that was when, when I thought there's something to this and so you were clued in to everything and so you. And when was this? How long ago? But about three years ago. And then I also had a very serious illness and during that illness, while I didn't use the product, I spent a lot of time researching. In particular, I got involved with children who have epilepsy syndrome, 200 seizures a day and no seizures after they go on cbd. And that kind of changed my whole attitude. So you were obviously clued into Debbie's career and then you're reading this about, uh, you know, epilepsy and then all of a sudden you're working in hospice and so you are completely enlightened. Absolutely more than supportive. And my job, and I'll let you talk to him trying to talk my ic part of my job as a 70 year old, 70 year old, 50 years experience in nursing.

Speaker 1: Barbara Blazer and Debbie Goldsberry, Barbara Blazer, mother, Debbie Goldsberry, and rn and Magnolia joins us to discuss our philosophy on cannabis and share her very first experience with cannabis and what exactly she's doing now to educate fellow bloomers programming. Note, we do a quick change after Barbara and we're in the main room at Magnolia, so it's active around us following her mother, Debbie Goldsberry then brings us through her journey, which of course includes the early days of cannabis legalization. Advocacy. Debbie shares how Barbara Civics class in rhetoric helped lead her to being on the road with Jack Herrera, among other familiar notables, and Debbie reminds us that after election day is when the actual work begins on legislation pass. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handicapped economy. It's two n's in the word economy. Tell the truth and follow the science. Debbie goldsberry proceeded by Barbara Blazer.

Speaker 2: All right, so, so, um, in Magnolia. Welcome to Magnolia. Here we are inside the dispensary. That's Debbie goldsberry. Hi, I'm Barbara, Barbara Goldsberry. I'm actually Barbara Blazer, Debbie's mom. And so the first thing I said to Barbara Blazer, who's a registered nurse by the way and newly employed here at. Absolutely. Congratulations. Uh, was that your last name is blazer and for this industry that is A. I don't know if it's ironic or if it's appropriate. I think it's appropriate actually. I always think I should find one of those names, like on the websites people have and I started to name some of them, but they have these really fancy, fancy names, but if blazers famous on there, you got it. You don't even need to change a thing. Well, and we didn't even talk. My middle name's for.

Speaker 2: This is exactly why I wanted to kind of take the first few minutes here knowing that this is Debbie goldsberry his mother, and talk a little bit. Now you're a registered nurse and now you're in a magnolia working here. When did you get turned onto the fact that cannabis was actually medicine? Well, probably I've known for years and years and years, but as a registered nurse, my last job I was the director of a hospice and the hospice I would see patients on Fridays and just to verify they had their meds and things and we'd have ladies anxious, crying, tearing their clothes, very frightened and I'd go back in on Monday to check on them and they'd be, Hey Barbara, how was your weekend? And I would say, did you have company? And their grandson would have brought them brownies and they were now eating and smiling and not anxious.

Speaker 2: So that was when, when I thought there's something to this and so you were clued in to everything and so you. And when was this? How long ago? But about three years ago. And then I also had a very serious illness and during that illness, while I didn't use the product, I spent a lot of time researching. In particular, I got involved with children who have epilepsy syndrome, 200 seizures a day and no seizures after they go on cbd. And that kind of changed my whole attitude. So you were obviously clued into Debbie's career and then you're reading this about, uh, you know, epilepsy and then all of a sudden you're working in hospice and so you are completely enlightened. Absolutely more than supportive. And my job, and I'll let you talk to him trying to talk my ic part of my job as a 70 year old, 70 year old, 50 years experience in nursing.

Speaker 2: I'm able to lean forward and spend time with patients who are frightened, don't know what they need, don't know what they want and tell my personal experience. Well that's exactly it. I mean, you know, if you've got somebody that's 70 and a registered nurse, you know, I can listen to you differently than I can listen to Debbie goldsberry or it can listen to anybody else, especially my 22 year old nephew, whoever, whatever, you know, like I've been lucky because my family's been supportive ever since I first got involved in this industry. I left college and it looked like I went on grateful dead tour and it one day mom sat me down and said, what are you doing with your life? And I told her that I was working for the cause to legalize marijuana and I told her some info and she said, thank goodness that you're doing something with your life. And uh, and bb is her previous job for the hospice. She was a trainer. She trained the nurses in the state of Illinois. So when we open Berkeley patients group, we had barb come in to train our staff members so that we could do just teach them anything we could about dealing with people in a medical environment because most of our staff members were cannabis users. They didn't have experience working with people

Speaker 3: who are really sick, dying, very ill. And also she didn't say it, but she's a psych nurse. And what we found at Berkeley patients group 65 percent of our members who are dually diagnosed with mental health conditions. So we needed her to come in and teach us how do we know things like when somebody is talking about suicide, when it's real and we need to step in and do something, you know, what do we do about a nine one, one emergency. If it happens on our time, and so, uh, it was essential having an rn around back in the day and now the fact that she retired and came to work here. Great. And let me tell you, here's the thing, I never wanted to be the one that got my mom high. Some people do. I didn't want to. I was telling her she needs to do that with their peers. You know what I mean? This is why she wasn't turned on to marijuana until three years ago. I didn't know how to turn my mom on the marijuana. So that's, that's it.

Speaker 2: It's a long journey. It is a long journey. You actually told me w, W, was it your first experience with Wiscat? Why don't we say that here, but the microphones on. All right. So. So Debbie called me one day and I never would eat anything at Debbie's without checking for new. Never ever product at Debra's house. But here was banana bread and a cube of butter. And first I smelled it. It smelled okay. I took a tiny little piece and it was nothing. And I ate the whole banana bread. So then I, I, about an hour later I drive away and I get a call, I drive 60 miles and I get a call and this voice says, where are you? And I said, well, I'm in Walnut Creek. And they said, well, Debbie wants you to pull over and turn off the car. I said, I'm getting my hair done.

Speaker 2: I have a coupon that's expiring today. She said, no, no. Debbie says, I said, listen, and um, you know, I, I weighed 200 pounds. I'm six feet tall. It was a lousy piece of banana bread. And then they make. Deborah called me and she tells me, you don't understand in four hours, this is what's going to happen. I said, I have a coupon, right? So here's the one thing that I have a coupon. Here's what I remember most is I went up to the beauty shop and the lady did Mike Wash my hair and she said, we have these wonderful new massage chairs. Do you mind sitting in this while you're here? Percolates, right? Oh my God, I love that chair. I wanted to take that chair home with me. So that was my mom got in touch telling me about the bottles were so pretty and the colors were incredible and I can hear people all over town talk.

Speaker 2: It was great and like, let me tell you, I did not leave that banana bread. Does responsible medical marijuana use her? I would never do such a thing. It was a house guest that had left it and it was just a shocking, a new protocol development in the household after that. Let me tell you. Absolutely. But of course it was primo product. Well that's what I'm hearing, certainly. And, and a whole cube of butter. Right? So really the brand was just the conduit for the butter. Of course I would. Yes, that's correct. But yeah, so that took me almost 13 years to try it again. It was such a wonderful experience. And now I do. I use a tincture for pain. Perfect. I actually took it in. I don't know who your audience is, but I read that 10 milligrams of thc a day will prevent Alzheimer's and improve dementia.

Speaker 2: And I get to the kitchen three or four times a day. And wonder what the Hell I'm doing in there, but I didn't think it made any difference, you know. So I stopped taking it three days later. My husband said, could you take that again? So apparently I was very stressed out. Interesting. So I. Yeah. Alright. So there. So you are definitely using cannabis as medicine for yourself and no CS, peer counseling. We, you know, one of the biggest growing populations in the medical marijuana industry is seniors. And when they come in here they literally know nothing about it and it's almost like I didn't want to get my mom hired. The seniors want to talk to somebody in their peer group. Like she said they don't want to talk to me. So she's giving it from her perspective of first time experience of how, how do you ease yourself into become a medical marijuana user?

Speaker 2: What do you try first? What kind of dosage, what kind of relief can you expect? So it's a win win. And if uh, you know, I mentioned my father's got the same age as you. So if, if we've got a couple of seniors listening, what would you say to somebody that's kind of investigating and kind of figuring this out and maybe has a little bit of a pain to manage and all that, but what's your kind of first advice? I would make sure that they go to the doc and get a recommendation, a recommendation, and then I would say to them, come to magnolia wellness where the only dispensary that has an rn on staff, that's very important. I actually, we have a system where the receptionist announces when new patients come in, I try and meet patients on the other side of the door and walk them in and then I, I do a tour and we actually try and examine what, you know, what are you looking for?

Speaker 2: And I'm, I'm looking for people with pain and anxiety. Do you have you ever smoked or you want to smoke? Do you understand the difference? And we spend a lot of time examining some of our patients live in single room only housing. You can't light anything up. So then we look at what can a, you know, a cookie, a lozenge that edibles what kind of dosage, right. Actually. And, and I think that it's important for, for everybody because when you hear there's an rn that we worked very hard. I don't ever make a recommendation because that's too close to prescription writing outside, outside of my scope. Got It. I don't ever hand anybody any medication that's dispensing. Got It. So it's a very delicate line, but it makes a huge difference to be able to say I've been a registered nurse for 50 years. That's it though.

Speaker 2: It's only the five decades only I've decade and part of, part of the difference for me as the rest of the staff path has performance standards to meet sure. They need to make sure that there aren't too many people waiting. I mostly have all day and we're just now are starting office hours. I'll have office hours where people can come. So that type of thing. Yeah. So educated. So I actually know that you came to talk to Deb. I'm going to let you do that. This has been a pleasure and a thrill. It was really nice meeting you. Thank you so much. Enjoy. Thanks mom.

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Speaker 2: Alright, so, uh, so deborah, as a God, I'm in trouble. I mean, how many people call you deborah? Besides a heart? Only her and only when I'm in trouble. So I see. Yes. I don't know. I mean I feel like she was just referring to maybe I'm just permanently in a state of trouble at this point. I don't know. That's fair. Fair?

Speaker 3: No, she seems to. She seems to certainly be a fan. That's right. I and I call her barb in the workplace. I say yes, and then it's easier that way. I'm going to give you these so that you can hear how you sound. That sounds really fancy. There you go. Now you can hear me and I can hear you. Oh my goodness. Where do we begin with you? I mean, I just. I told your mother that you're a legend in your own time. Thank you. That's very nice of you to say. I don't know. I'm not even being nice. It's just facts. So I think it's because I've been around a long time in this industry. It's almost 30 years, 29 years in the industry. Got Involved right at the height of the war on drugs. When we had to get involved, it was essential that we fought back against the horrible prohibition against marijuana where the government started arming cops with weapons of war and went to war against her own people in the streets of America and we had to fight back and we had to do it smart.

Speaker 3: We had to depend on the constitution, the voters, our rights as people. The fact that it's the people that run this government, there's a system of checks and balances, but you know what they always forget to tell you that the people are the bosses of the system of checks and balances. It starts with the people, we the people, and then we can go ahead and get a president and put in Congress and have a judicial system. But we're the bosses if we do our job right. So teaching people who are using cannabis to do their job in democracy, to fight back intelligently, to require the government, to follow the laws, to make laws based on science. That's the law. How about that?

Speaker 3: Teaching people to fight back was a central back then and um, and it was a grassroots movement. So we got around. This is pre internet when we got started. So there was no podcasts back then know that we're not right. We had a VW vans and vehicles and Rvs and we hit the road and we went places and we told people about marijuana and the importance of it. And we showed a medical marijuana. We brought lv Musica with us back in the day on our, on hemp tours. One of the, she gets, still gets 300 joints a month, yet she's one of the federal marijuana patients, medical marijuana patients. So we take her around and we bring her to the newspaper and she'd show up on the front page of the newspaper and with certain of the 300 joints and you know, she's got God coma and she's a senior.

Speaker 3: So suddenly people started to think, wait a minute, that medical marijuana, we've never heard about this. We've only heard that marijuana is a dangerous drug with no use. Right, exactly. Yup. Just say no. Say No. Let's go all the way back when, when, uh, Barbara Blazer was Barbara Goldsberg. While it's. Because I feel like let's just do the whole thing. Right. Where did you grow up? I'm from Illinois. I'm from Illinois, Mississippi River. I grew up right there. So beautiful. And so south side or um, well, uh, no you didn't say Chicago. I understand. Yeah. The Mississippi River is on the other side of the state. So, um, I grew up there in the quad cities and we eventually moved to the south of Chicago, but corn fields, not suburbs, cornfields, not suburb. That's what I'm getting at. White Sox, not cubs, but I would imagine you don't care calves all the way.

Speaker 3: Fair enough. And so you'll remember Leon Durham playing first base. Oh, I just love watching. Oh yes. I could go back in the day. I could watch baseball now. I don't know. I don't know so much. Well, it's a different thing. Well it's the same thing, but it's different somehow. All right. So your cornfields not uh, uh, what'd you say? Cornfields. Not what? Not the city, not the city. But you did move kind of closer to the city. That's right. I was lucky enough to be in a cornfield that was just a few miles from those suburbs. So even though it was very, uh, you know, there was 27 churches in a town of 3000 people. That's where I grew up. But we were close enough to drive as soon as I got the driver's license out of there, off to Chicago and so. Well, but first before we get the driver's license, I want to know about kind of little Debbie Goldsberry, you know, as far as, you know, we have to know what to do as citizens.

Speaker 3: Where does that come from? Where did that Germany, you know, as a little kid, what do you remember? What's the first kind of way to separate. I remember being in high school and loving my civics class. The teacher was good, the projects were creative and he taught us about government and my mom was very political. She was a part of the Illinois nurse's association, so she was a union organizer. She pondered a run for state assembly, so she was always doing something political. So we were lobbying, being dug around the capital being taken to important political sites, Washington dc, our whole, our whole youth. So I was always interested in politics and so within your path certainly makes sense to her no matter what you were doing. You were doing something as she said. That's right. So, uh, and then, so their civics class, where does cannabis come into?

Speaker 3: Remember the first time I remember my friend, we're driving down the road. My friend was like, marijuana. It's so awful. I was like, yeah, oh, terrible. In my head I was thinking, I can't wait to try it. That was I was 16. That was it. I knew already I wanted to try it. So what do you. Do you remember why? Or I think one of your very close friends, he thinks it's evil, right? The word was out already. Marijuana was fun. People liked it. This is what I think they were telling me that when you smoke marijuana you could see colors, that you can hear music different or that. I was like, that sounds amazing. Why would I not try? Who wouldn't want to try it? I only had my human body for one lifetime. I want to explore its boundaries. So yeah. So knowing that marijuana was safe, but also that I could do some experimentation about what the world was really about was really attractive to me.

Speaker 3: So. And then when did we find that opportunity? Nineteen. Nineteen. We call it the college dorm. Yeah, because the corn field, there wasn't a lot of marijuana. I didn't know where to get it. I don't know. I didn't have a connection, you know what I mean? But no guy. Right. Must have been some weed out and that corn, but I don't know where you go. Where'd you go to college? University of Illinois. Champaign Urbana. Big tents. It was the, they were fighting a line. I have the time. That's all right. Right. I think it's changed now. I'm not sure. But yeah, that would be appropriate I think. Yes, dude. Study. Uh, well I started out in poly sci, political science and I moved over to rhetoric. Oh yes. Right. Yes. Writing that convinces people to change their mind about topics. Yeah. So I was always into that philosophy, writing logic.

Speaker 3: Um, political science too. You're built for now. You know, I already see it now. Get it. I had Barbara Blazer sit in here. We have civics teacher infusing you with all sorts of information. It's right switchover. You want it to try kind of as you switch over to rhetoric and we're starting to get the deputy on creative writing, creative writing. So we hit up our, our, our, what do they call them, ra, the resident advisor on our dorm. Actually the one across the hall in the and the boy side. He was willing to help us find marijuana and experiment for the first time. So. So we tried it the very first time I tried it, I didn't get high. I didn't know how to inhale, right the second time I was determined. So I inhaled, um, and I felt like it changed my life on a dime.

Speaker 3: I felt like I was one person that day before and I was the person that I want it to be the day. That very next moment after I inhaled and started to feel the effects of marijuana. Understanding that your mother, Barbara Blazer, might've brought some seniors to the table here. Let's just make sure because that might say, that sounds scary. I was a different person the next day. Well, because you know what? This is what I didn't know back then. But your body has an endocannabinoid system. Look at that. So within your body, you're producing cannabinoids, the same molecules that you find in marijuana that gives you that feeling of wellbeing are being produced in your own body. The endocannabinoid system is responsible for helping you organize your thoughts. It's helped. It's responsible for helping cells communicate with each other. If your endocannabinoid system isn't working right, you feel sick.

Speaker 3: You don't feel right. For me, what was happening is I was crippled with social anxiety. I couldn't talk. I was so shy you wouldn't believe it. I would never be able to do this back then. I couldn't sit in a group of four of my friends and contribute to the conversation because I was too shy to speak. I literally had a problem with shyness and I could not speak. So what it changed for me is it opened my ability to speak. Now. Can you imagine being somebody that couldn't even say a word in a group of their own friends using marijuana and realizing you have the power of speech that you can talk to people that you can be heard, that you can be, have fun, that you feel comfortable all of a sudden laughing and a crowd as opposed to hiding out along the edges.

Speaker 3: It was absolutely life changing for me. I suspect I had an endo cannabinoid deficiency and you'll be cured. Right? And as soon as I use the cannabis and it went to the receptor sites in my body and it did it, it was supposed to do, I felt normal for the first time balanced out. It wasn't a miracle for me. Why? Why? Why? Go back. Why exactly right? Uh, when did we kind of start to, you know, you're building your skills in school. Did you start to activate on campus or was it afterwards? Well, this is one of the things where I got really lucky. The marijuana movement had largely died out, but there were still some stuff happening that it started in the seventies. So you're talking about key strop who we've had on 1970, he starts up normal and then what year are we talking about?

Speaker 3: 80 five. 80 six. 80 six. It had died out because Reagan and Reagan killed it. That's right. That's right. And the war on drugs kicked in and they changed the way that they were doing the enforcement priorities of the Department of Justice. And almost every department, police department across the nation changed their enforcement priorities to go after marijuana users, which they hadn't done before. So that's when I came on the scene. Right? So here I am. Hearing marijuana is awful. Terrible. Don't use it. It's dangerous. I try. It changes my life for the positive on day one, I'm just like, this is Billoni. This is Baloney. Here I am a student. I'm very smart. I'm studying, you know, I'm learning things. I'm supposed to make intelligent decisions using logic based on fact. And here I find and discover that prohibition is a big fat lie and it's untenable for me to think that I can't get involved because I understand government and I understand when your government lies to you like that, it is essential that you stand up and fight back.

Speaker 3: That's our job as citizens to not let our government get out of control like they are doing with the war on drugs. It's our job, it's our job and that's what we're here for. And the democracy. And guess what? If it gets as bad as it did at the height of the war on drugs, it's essential that people who are brave enough to stand up and fight back, stand up and fight back. You being one of those people. What was the first action that you took? Well, this is what I was going to tell you. My College campus, University of Illinois, Keith Strop went to college there. Oh, did he really? Oh yes. He did actually know that. That's right. And the guy who was the editor of high times, he grew up there and we had chef Ra there who was a writer for high times. He wrote the ganja recipe column every month and we had a normal chapter on campus and there were almost no normal chapters on campus.

Speaker 3: So when I tried marijuana I immediately got involved in the normal chapter and became an organizer for the cause. What was it like the normal. Because that feels like the way that folks talk about SSDP these days. It sounds like that's what you were doing with normal those days. So talk about the campus life in normal and kind of, you know, projects that you guys were working on. Well, I'll tell you a little bit about about how I really got involved and got, got really activated as our college campus. Had a smoke in it already been going on 15 years. By the time I got there, it was called the Hash Wednesday. Every third Wednesday of April, everyone would gather on the quad and smoke weed smoking. Right. The ups started these smoke ends. I'll across the liberal arts colleges sometime in maybe the late seventies, early seventies, I don't know, it was 15 years old and I was there at 80, so it started in the seventies, so, um, and there was one in New York and there was one in Washington DC.

Speaker 3: There was one in Madison, Wisconsin. There was one in Ann Arbor and there was one in University of Illinois. Those were the remaining smoking's that somehow stuck around all these years. So I go in 86. Beautiful. I go in 87, so great. It was so free that somebody set up a lifeguard chair and a 30 foot bong. You had to sit in the lifeguard chair, just smoke the bong. It was 30 feet long. So, um, physics or a big physics college. Anyway, I'm 88. Reagan ordered the crackdown and, and what we had heard is that he ordered the university to crack down and Hash Wednesday just will never go on again. They sent cops, they bloodied us, they took out their billy clubs and they beat us literally bloody. And they arrested people in drug away. That was it. They told us he'll never be back again, and we said, are you out of your mind?

Speaker 3: Not only are we coming back next year, put it in your calendar. We're going to be at every college campus in Elanora doing the same thing next year though. That's what he said. He can't push us around like this, you, you made us mad, and we did. We came back next year and we didn't have smoke in, so it was too dangerous. We did rallies and we brought people who are intelligent, who could tell the truth about marijuana and we we reached the student bodies, we've reached the media and we reached core organizers who are ready to start organizations in their hometown to continue the cars after we left purposely not bringing product to the party, so to speak. Right? Yeah. Yeah. We get, we have a message we need to get out right now and we need to fight back against this war on drugs. It was so successful that the next season, I think that was then.

Speaker 3: That was a spring by followed by fall we decided we were going to go to five states and then the next year we decided we're going to go to 17 states and then after that we decided we're going to go everywhere because we needed to get the word out. There was they had taken marijuana information out of libraries. There was no internet to refer to for data. There was nowhere for people to go to find the truth about marijuana. The only thing they could get was night of Bologna information that was not based on fact or science, so we put lv Musica and a car, which is ironic by the way, because that's the whole. Should be the whole purpose of that organization. Should we take that tangent? Exactly. No, I know. Yeah. This is our thing. We just would really like the government to follow science and make laws based on the truth.

Speaker 3: Right. I don't think that's asking. Well, we gotta I mean I. I don't mean to jump around here, but we did get a little bit. We got an inch, if you will. When the dea did not reschedule or do you schedule? They did open up. They said we can do a data. This is what the dea, the dea has been doing. They've only lived all these years. They've made it illegal to possess it, but they left it open for research and and I've even had the application in my hand to apply for a research permit for marijuana from the dea, but they only gave one license for cultivation. They gave it to Mr. University of Mississippi. Oh, solely. Here's my ell solely story. I was at an event one time ICRS International Cannabis Research Society Conference. Very scientific. I can't understand a word they're saying when they talk about marijuana molecules, but your politics and Science Ed Rosenthal's book on our table, of course, the rigor of to an excellent an expert medical marijuana grower.

Speaker 3: We had his book. It had blood on. It also leaves grower comes by the table, looks at the book. What is that? That's the quality of marijuana. They were growing at the University of Mississippi that they did not recognize a marijuana bud on the cover of chief. Grover did not know that that's what marijuana literally, literally did not know. I couldn't believe to be true. Debbie, how can I make this up? I was so shocked. We sent them the books. We, we send them a whole and we sent them all for it. We sent them off. Give us your address for sending you the books. We'll send Ed. Why not, right. Right. And you know, because they were growing this crappy marijuana three because, because neither was limiting the potency of the marijuana to three percent. So when you grow three percent marijuana, you're basically growing literally weeds.

Speaker 3: It looks like a garbage corn. It looks like corn. Marijuana. Marijuana grows very pretty, like a flower and it's, it's beautiful and smells good. Three percent thc and it looks like you should throw it away, which gets us back to lv music because that's basically what she was smoking, right? That's right. And Lv was getting those when we put her on the road and the van with all of us, we were very young and, and uh, thank goodness she was blind. She didn't see the circumstances around her all the time. Those bands were dirt maybe filled up with young people. Anyway. Maybe you're interested in little dirt to find her. She's all Zika. Okay. How? Because we, because from our little campus, we got very political, obviously. We started organizing all over the nation. We started a group called cannabis action network and one of the first things we did is we got, we went and got any info we could.

Speaker 3: So we went to the, um, the conference of this group called the Drug Policy Foundation, which was an early reform group. They're called the drug policy alliance right now. They changed their name a little bit, but back in [inaudible] 89, we went to their conference. That's where I met at Rosenthal. I met Dr Todd Mikuriya, who was one of the founders of the medical movement. And we, and we came across lv and all the superstars in the cannabis movement. I met Steve de Angelo there. That's right down the block, down the block at harbor side. So you're in the van. And what was the, uh, the call to action, what, you know, what exactly was the mission? Threefold. We're going to come to your hometown, we're going to do an event at that event. You're going to draw people out of the closet who use marijuana, and we're going to get together sometimes for the first time and you're going to get tooled up.

Speaker 3: Everyone that comes is going to get the info about marijuana, the facts, they can't get in their own hometown. We're bringing them to you in flyer form or book form, and also we would bring a hemp museum. Nobody did. Nobody knew that it could be made into paper or that was a fiber crop and it can be made into cloth. We couldn't even conceive what you take the stock and you make it into a fiber. How's that even possible? So we would bring the hemp museum. Here's how it's possible, here's this stock and here's what it looks like when you break it into fiber and now when you leave it up, it's a cloth. And so people were getting this info for the very first time. So we had to educate the users thing too. We need it to empower the organizers. We didn't know if we'd ever be back.

Speaker 3: We need to give you enough info. The core organizers said that you can start your own group, be at normal, make up your own name. We don't care. You need to be self sufficient so that you can continue a movement that you will develop in your hometown based on the needs of your hometown. Because every city's a little bit different. Um, empower and educate. The organizers said that they could continue on with or without us. Teach them to fish. That's right. Thing three hit the media. That's the third audience. Get in front of the media with lv music in her 300 joints of marijuana. Don't bring the media to the rally. That's for the users. Go to the editorial boards and do the ods. Go to them, go to them with the old lady. That's right. Show him the marijuana and tell them about the marijuana and the hub.

Speaker 3: Holocracy of what the government's telling us. And it was a massive success. So, uh, that first part, the museum part is that what I see in the anteroom of Oaksterdam University. But it's the same concept. Yeah. And it's probably some of the same museum pieces that you two are on the road with us. Yeah. Talk about the meeting with the media. So you say it was a, a successful. We know that you activated an entire nation of activists because we have those people now. That's great. Thank you. Um, what about the media? What was the response you have this crazy, this crazy group of kids with this, with this kind of amazing old lady coming in. They were blown away because you know what? The media couldn't believe it either and they had been hoodwinked by the government government to. So when you showed up with the media with the truth, they told the truth and they talked about the war on drugs and they talked about the dichotomy between saying that marijuana has no use whatsoever and supplying the same people saying it has no use supplying all of these people who are critically ill with their marijuana every month.

Speaker 3: And the story got picked up everywhere with very good coverage to. It wasn't a stoner hippies on the road smoking weed? No, it was senior citizens using marijuana with their prescription from the federal government. And this is the late eighties turning into the early nine. That's right. We did those tours from I think 1989 was our first tour and we went all the way to 1996 and after [inaudible] 96 we felt like, hey, this job is. We did a good job. You know, we don't have to keep going on the road everywhere. I mean there's a specific reason you tell us. Well, I, I wonder what your, what's. Oh well that's when we legalized medical marijuana illegal. But you know, what else was happening right then too. We didn't stop the grassroots campaign national. But what happened right then is, um, the festivals started, the grateful dead, stopped touring in [inaudible] 95.

Speaker 3: And in [inaudible] 96, every festival started. Lala Palooza poured the warp tour. We were on all of them. So we would get a nonprofit booth and we would go on the road with the tours and whereas our little hump tourists, some days we'd have 100 people, some days we'd have a thousand, 2000, some events would be big. Maybe we'd be lucky to get 10,000 people Lollapalooza. Everyday had 35,000 people and people wanted this info so strongly that we would be surrounded by people all day long. We would see probably, I don't know what third, maybe more of the people in the festival. They would come to our booth. Well, it's your target market. That's also one Lollapalooza. He's touring, touring everywhere. We went everywhere. Yeah. It's so fun. So in the summer of [inaudible] 96, we did all three of those tours for Lollapalooza and the vans warped tour. We were everywhere doing the same model, right?

Speaker 3: We're going to reach the users, we're going to try and get in the media and we're going to have the organizers come out to la with polluted. They get to come to the fun festival, but we can still do the training. Part of what we need to do to help them get tooled up so that they can make it through another year of advocacy. So, you know, and you know, by the way, Brendan, the drummer from blues travelers running a dispensary in Washington state. I didn't. But that makes perfect sense to me. Heck yeah. Um, so. Okay, so there we are now. Now it's the mid nineties. We've actually got some legislation going. Um, you think that uh, yes, we're going to continue this. Obviously we've, we've, we have accomplishment here. And so what did you do with that when you came off the road, so to speak?

Speaker 3: Right. Did we get, are we came to Berkeley, California at the request of Dr Todd Mikuriya, the medical marijuana expert. He used to work for National Institute of Health researching marijuana in the seventies. So he was tuned into this long before any of us. Of course he was so pro marijuana. He didn't last very long it in his position as head of marijuana research at NASA National Institute of Health. They were looking to a pro. Yeah. But he put out a book with all the studies he could get his hands on, so then we could show people that this isn't an unstudied plant. This is actually one of the most studied plants on the planet. So we can get that info out. But yeah, we came here. We came in, we came in [inaudible] 92. You didn't mention Jack. Jack was great. He was on the road with us on the hemp tours. He was with us every tour, every everyday.

Speaker 3: He wasn't on the very first tour, the very first tour we did. It was a Steve de Angelo was there. That's where I met Steve. Actually. I met Steve for the first time because at that time it's the small world place right at University of Illinois. So you can imagine when we reached out to people inside the University of Illinois under attack, we reached out to normal keystrokes. We reached out to high times. The editor of high times was from Champaign-urbana, um, uh, and um, Steve and Steve's girlfriend, who he was with for many years, maybe 20 years, was born and raised in Champagne Urbana. So when he found out they loaded in the van and they came too, so it was a call to arms to save champagne or Bana from people that actually had cared about it, sort of their whole lives so that they pick the wrong town to pick out and you know what I mean.

Speaker 3: And we were ready. We were ready. So they thought that they picked the right. They picked the exact exact wrong town. And you know what, that, that, that day that they beat us bloody. It was actually four slash 20. I looked back in them, I couldn't believe it. I decided to look back last year. Okay. The third Wednesday in April. What is the chance that would've been a four slash 20. It was 4:20. I couldn't believe it. Just a very weird little coincidence. I want to catch you on Jack though here. Yeah. So Jack won a few anecdotes if you don't mind. Right. You know what I mean? It was so great being on the road with Jack Career. Um, I mean the man's a genius and a madman, you know, it's just what we needed on the road because you've got a mush mush. We're gonna Mush.

Speaker 3: I could have this thing for food, fuel, fiber, and medicine. We all still have it in our minds. We heard it so often. You know, one of the great things about Jack is he put together this teaching shirt. Have you ever seen that thing? I don't think so. Facts everywhere, every square inch of the tee shirt covered in fact. Right? So Jack's idea is anytime you wear the shirt and anybody, you see somebody looking at it, you're engaging them, right? Oh, you're reading my sleeve, let's talk about him for fiber, you know, oh, you're behind me in line. And the checkout, did you read the fact about medical marijuana? And so that you can start this conversation with these facts all over your body. So the teaching tee shirt, it was amazing. Jack always had a big bus school bus and we have a classical old photo of hip tour or painted on the side of Jack, so old school bus and he would load up people from California because he was a Californian.

Speaker 3: We're midwesterners those California. They were little. They were different. Know were like, wow. The tech people say trump supporter just came through. It made me, made me speechless. Had a jacket on. By the way, he walked through. He made eye contact, took the jacket off to show us his trump tee shirt, but we'll of course. Did you see that? Trump's son today came out with a tweet against that, that ruling that night, that night circuit court ruling that came down yesterday. So yesterday, the night circuit court ruled that approved. The ruling saying that anyone that has a state card for medical marijuana should be denied the right to have a gun. So if you have a medical marijuana card, you're not allowed to have a gun because the federal laws say that marijuana is a dangerous drug and if you use dangerous drugs, you're not allowed to have weapons.

Speaker 3: So some, somebody in Nevada got rejected to get an a because they must have a state registry. So they got rejected and they fought the case that the ninth circuit and they lost. They lost. So we do not have the right to have a gun. If you have a state you can be denied your. There's so many layers there. What, how do you even. Well this is what trump jr did today, is he, he tweeted out a about how bad that was, about how it was another way that the government was taking away our rights and it shouldn't. And what are they going to do this for every prescription drug. Why are you picking a marijuana? So I'm not saying anything good about trump, I'm just saying. I'm just saying like, uh, there's a universal support for changing the marijuana laws because they make no sense.

Speaker 3: But a Chris Christie who would be the, a rethink the attorney general is, is a kind of anti. But let's get back on track. What is the track? The track is your width jacket and he's got, he's got his teeth, she's got these guys, teacher food, fuel, fiber, and medicine. Yes, yes. And we are on tour and giving speeches every day. And, and Jack's got his book, the emperor wears no clothes, which he researched very thoroughly and, and vetted the heck out of it with experts because it was making some claims that seemed and saying because none of us knew that amplus food, fuel, fiber and medicine. So to see it in writing, it took a minute for us to understand. So the book was a series of um, verified facts. He used primary sources to create the book and put the primary sources into the book so that it would be irrefutable.

Speaker 3: And in fact he felt so strongly about it. He put this pledge, anybody can refute anything in this book, I'll give you 10,000 bucks. Nobody could refute anything in the book. So he never, nobody ever. He had never had to give the 10 k away, but he, he had a following. So Jack was a huge draw. And the tours, he would give speeches every day. I mean, the guy was a master speech giver. He would change your mind just based on the tone of his voice and um, and then he would take time to meet with people. He would spend all day with people, he would take them to dinner, he would spend time with them after a preaching the cars about marijuana and that you need to get involved and you need to learn the wrap and you need to get out there and you need to change the laws, educate, teach people how to fish and tech was a character, incredible character.

Speaker 3: And uh, a really a fun person to be around. I'm totally wild. A very out there ready to do the work and working harder than almost anybody I've ever known in my whole life. Go. So work ethic without question. That's right. So you get to Berkeley. Why? Why, why did we find Berkeley? Why did we like Berkeley? Besides the fact that it's critically be center of everything in Haight Ashbury and the whole nine. We were organizing tours from the road. We didn't have an office for a long time. Steve de Angelo would let us come stay at his house. That was the closest to our office for almost two years. We eventually settled in Kentucky because it was so centrally located. We could go places from Kentucky, you know, 10 hours from Chicago, 10 hours from New Orleans, 10 hours from DC. We can get places fast, 10 hours from Kansas City.

Speaker 3: But uh, anytime we had a chance when we did the west coast tours that was recovered. Did you know who is going to go to the tour that's going to the Pacific to the west coast or who's getting wants to go to the east coast? And believe me, there was a scramble to get out to the west coast because it's amazing. But the real reason we came was Dr Todd Mikuriya because he had showed us this Berkeley law that the voters had written in 1979. It's still on the books today. And what that did is it said, uh, well, first of all, the voters tried to make a law and 73, it was about two paragraphs, pot's legal, F off. It's illegal. Okay. That's all. That's basically what it said, the attorney general, um, even though it passed the attorney general, uh, disqualified, it wouldn't let go into effect because it was written in a flawed manner.

Speaker 3: State Attorney General, the state of California would not let it take effect. So the same people for 1979 wrote a law that was going to have teeth in it and what's going to work. So in that law it said Pot's legal in Berkeley, basically in one of the warehouses. So it's not like it's legal like law. Um, and it even said things like a, it's a crime to steal marijuana plants in Berkeley called the police if somebody steals your marijuana plants, but the teeth that it did, this is with the teeth that it said, it said that the city can't spend any money enforcing marijuana laws of any kind and that the police have to take their priority of crimes and put marijuana at the very bottom of it. Right. Perfect. But guess what, they never enforced that law. They never implemented it. The citizens made the law and 79 by the time Dr Maria told us about it and invited us out here and say, Hey, what do we implement this law? See if you can implement this law. It hadn't been implemented and had been a number of years, right? We got there in 92, so 79 to 92. No implementation. So of course understanding, know what's in the middle there, the eighties, the Reagan eighties. But let's just take the opportunity because this is perfect timing. And here's Debbie goldsberry go on.

Speaker 3: So we just decided to implement that law. So what did that mean? Um, well first of all we did, we did the medical marijuana initiative from our office. We opened an office in Berkeley, California. We got 30,000 signatures for the campaign. We registered 15, uh, 1500 voters. We were the darlings of the voter registrar, registering so many voters. And we got, we got 87 point five percent yes. Vote in Berkeley. Second highest in the state, only next to West Hollywood. San Francisco got in the seventies. We got, we got. So we did our dog over there really well, but back then there weren't a lot of doctors giving doctors notes and, and we knew about the 79 law. So we said, well this is everyone else is trying to open a dispensary. How about we enforce the 79 law and we open up a place for adult personal users, which is what we did in Berkeley called the burden.

Speaker 3: The project was called the Berkeley Cannabis consumers union or the be cool Berkeley Cannabis Ordinance Oversight League. Be Cool. That's cool. That's cool. Um, and uh, and so we decided to open once a week for adults and we at our, at our office, we had a, we would set up a bud bar once a week and we'd invite people in and we have music and food and a good time. But in order to get it. And you had to register as a member and when you're a member for your registration, we sat you down and we spoke to you. This isn't like a group registration. We need to talk about the laws. We need to talk about prohibition. Are you registered to vote? I have this petition I need you to sign. And then we go through the building roles. This is the cool thing, right? Don't bug our neighbors. Don't park in the neighborhood, their driveway.

Speaker 3: Don't play your music loud. No peeling out when you leave the place. Um, and we had to come to that idea of doing these sort of good neighbor rules and the building rules because what was happening is people would come to our place and we'd give them all the politics. They'd be so cool when they were in our facility. No problem. Everyone's cool. But they'd go outside and because none of us had experienced freedom like this, as soon as they walked out the door, they go, well, yeah, you know, we don't know. You have to be cool all the way around this place. So we came up with these rules and it was really not a rule of the shop. It's a state of high needs to be cool trying to stay out of trouble. Um, uh, look, the police knew about it. Say I had.

Speaker 3: One of the weirdest conversations I ever had is when they sent the sergeant down to talk to us for the first time and I went out to talk to him. First of all, I said, what are you doing? What are you doing? I couldn't believe it. I was the spotter. How am I talking to you? Right. And then I told him about registering voters or signing petitions. This is movement, are supporting this law. And then he told me this look, the snitches had been in. They came to us and they want to sell you out. But we said, no. Wow, this is the police sergeant. Yeah. I was like, well, I don't write, I don't know. And then he said, but um, those same snitches are going to go to the dea and we bet the dea is not going to be so nice about this.

Speaker 3: That was the first thing. And he shook my hand and left. That was it. And then they came back again. Basically the same thing. Even though they came with more cops that time they left, they brought the lieutenant in charge of the narcotics squad. That time, who was suggested, don't you think you should maybe move off the main road in town? Probably you'd be better if you're in a different part of town or on the edge. Go over the warehouse district where no one's looking. Um, one day when the lieutenant was out of town, the boss, this other sergeant, he couldn't believe we were. Nobody was busting us, so he decided he was going to be the one. So the boss is out of town. This other sergeant decides he's going to. That's right. So he, uh, he makes up stuff for the search warrant.

Speaker 3: He went to the judge, told him for things. None of them were true. He told him I saw large amounts of money when I looked in. Guess how much they found? 30 six bucks. Well, well, you know, certain people, Hey, there's a point with 36 bucks would have been more like a what lasts me a week. But you know what I mean? I don't think it flies when you're trying to make a drug felony charge against somebody. We were that day. What we're really doing is we had all these coolers, they were full of cheese because we were going to a reggae festival and we had rented a booth. We're going to make pizzas, cheese pizzas, just to make money for the cause. Nothing gone to just cheese. So I'm coolers full of cheese. We're loading into a van. So he saw that and in the search warrant he said, uh, you know, I'm a really experienced narc.

Speaker 3: And uh, they had all these coolers that I know it was full of marijuana. It was cheese. So then we had, we went to court, I got charged with a felony. I was the only felony, but when we fought it, because we knew the guy lied on everything, he was just making stuff up and we made him prove his point. He couldn't prove any of them. Look, you're 25 years plus Narc. Have you ever seen marijuana to cooler? No. Have you ever. Do you have any training? Did they ever tell you the academy? The marijuana was in cooler? No. What are you even doing know? And then it comes out, there's 36 bucks. So they threw out the felony charge, dropped all the charges against all of us, and we sued the police because that's not cool. The police can't come and lie on search warrants in a democracy. So we won, we won, the city settled, settled with us and uh, and what I did is a city of Berkeley. I took my money and I bought a VW bus and I'm a ticket to Amsterdam. Seemed like the right thing to do.

Speaker 3: And then when you were over there did. I did. I bet. I can't remember what the purpose was. Right? I went to Amsterdam. I don't know if I'd found the cup, but what had happened then is that a lot of medical marijuana patients were members of our, of our place. And so a patient came to me and said, look, this is, this is amazing. How about we start a medical marijuana dispensary and we use the same philosophy. We'll use the same registration process is the same good neighbor processes. We'll have music, we'll have food, we'll have a gathering place, will be political of the best marijuana ever. I will do it for patients. And so that's how we started Berkeley patients group. There you go. So I mean this is a vaunted institutions and basically it's on the heels of be cool. It's, it's essentially the same thing. What made it everlasting?

Speaker 3: Well, the guy that I co founded that place with Jim McClellan, Mcclellan, he died of aids. He was only with us a year. Jim didn't tell us he was dying, but Jim was setting up Berkeley patients group as the thing you would want to do with the last year of your life. What do you want to do the last year of your life? It's not going to be more roast. So we worked together to create something and make it wonderful. A place that you want to come. Even when you're at your sickest and maybe even dying. That's the place that you're going to go. So you can feel better. Medical marijuana age being one of the primary reason for medical marijuana here in California at the time, right? That's right. And that the drugs were so harsh back then and they were very hard for people to take and tim wasn't able to handle his medicine.

Speaker 3: He did. It was tragic. It broke our hearts of course, and find out that that was what was happening, but the legacy was so strong. What we had created together was so amazing that we just kept the thing going and people felt it. It was a great place to be. It's under new operations now. None of the original people are still there and it's also in a new building and the whole. That's right. That's right. And we've moved the mission over here now to magnolia wellness and we're working right now on a big expansion to take over a cafe next door and we've applied for a cannabis infused cafe license where everything we sell would be infused with cannabis, thc, cbd or Thc A. and we've applied for a onsite vaporizing license so that we can have a dab bar and we're just on the edge of our seats right now waiting for that license to come through.

Speaker 3: Now you're in Oakland. You're not in Berkeley. That's right, Howard, how is the street Oakland responding to those requests? Well, we're the first. They made the law about three months ago to allow onsite cannabis consumption because in Oakland we still have about 300 people a year busted for smoking marijuana on the streets of Oakland and we know that the only way to protect those people is to give them a place that they actually want to go that's inside where they can be together with their friends and consume cannabis. And the city of Oakland gets that. Um, it's not like Colorado. We're not going to legalize it and have no place for people to go to use their marijuana safely.

Speaker 4: There's also the, uh, conversation happening right next to us right here. Uh, in Magnolia, there's also a public housing issue as far as consumption is concerned, right?

Speaker 3: That's right. That's kind of what my mom was saying at the beginning. We Fed all these people that live in buildings that can't consume cannabis there. It's part of their lease and we have a lot of people nearby here at Magnolia. We're very close to a federal housing project and there you lose your housing if you consume marijuana onsite, so people need a place that they can come know and a lot of people, their spouse isn't supportive or they have kids and they don't want to have marijuana in the house with the kids because child protective services can still get in a big flap about this stuff. So people really want to have a place where they can consume cannabis. Plus, you know, there's something else that's important. We have to show people how to do it right. You know, we have to teach people how to be responsible, how to be cool, what does it look like to use cannabis, how do you do it where you don't act up, you know, how do I, how do I smoke marijuana? I've never seen it done before. So it's important that we have a place that we can teach people to use cannabis in a respectful, safe manner,

Speaker 4: which is the whole. I mean that goes back to day one, right? That goes back to Jack. That goes back to the whole kind of mission to begin with.

Speaker 3: We just want to be left alone to use our medicine privately and in peace. You know, what Oakland's going to do? They're going to allow permits for festivals where you can consume marijuana because guess what, we like to get together in big groups and use marijuana together. It feels good and it's fun and that's what we do. Why is it illegal? It makes no sense.

Speaker 4: Uh, so speaking of being cool, why is Oakland being so cool? Do you think?

Speaker 3: Oakland is so cool because our, our elected officials get it. They understand the issue inside now they've looked at it now over the course of 20 years and Oakland wants to be at the forefront of this. Oakland thinks this is the right thing to do. Um, it's definitely the right thing to do for our city budget to stop arresting people in destroying families. And the other thing is, is that Oakland's hit with epic unemployment and poverty. And if we can create new, a new industry for Oakland, it's not going to be a gigantic, huge. Maybe it will be a huge industry, I don't know, but it's going to give people jobs and potential for ownership, not just jobs, potential that own their own companies.

Speaker 4: You just took us through the history of cannabis and um, and how it found its footing here in California as far as industry is concerned. You know, we're, we're still kind of figuring that out as we speak. Do you pay attention to what is going on and has gone on in Colorado? They, they kind of jumped on, on the whole regulated thing, right? Um, does Oakland basically just Oakland see Denver and see that there is tax revenue and all of that? Or is it a totally separate thing?

Speaker 3: Yeah, Oakland sees Denver and sees that there's a lot of potential, but we can also look at Denver and see the flaws that we don't want to have happen here. People from out of state coming in and scooping up the permits and people who have lived in the city of Oakland for a long time being exed out because they don't have business degrees and they don't have millions of dollars and that is already written into the law, correct? That's right. Because Oakland's made it a part of their law so that 50 percent of the permits are issued to people who live in Oakland who owned businesses. So we're not going to have a big green rush in Oakland. We're going to try and build up Oakland. What we saw happen in Denver is cannabis came with a massive gentrification and that's what we're trying to prevent here in Oakland. We don't want longstanding oaklanders to actually get moved out of town because of medical marijuana where suddenly they can't afford their house anymore because the marijuana market has skyrocketed. The cost of everything in the city. So a lot of important. We have to do a lot of important work to make sure that that cannabis goes into play in Oakland and way that doesn't identify in a way that creates ownership for the citizens of Oakland.

Speaker 4: How much do you have to do with that on the ground? In other words, that sounds like a debby goldsberry approach. So did we just get lucky with Oakland or. Well, I'm.

Speaker 3: Oakland and Berkeley were really very instrumental back in 1996 in getting the law passed through. And Richard Lee, the guy who founded Oaksterdam University, was a big fan of the Berkeley Cannabis Consumers Union in our spot. And after it closed, he opened something similar here in Oakland, uh, the, the bulldog cafe. And he followed our model there. And from there he started Oaksterdam. And then there started to be all these dispensaries in Oakland and Richmond. Richard had one of the first dispensary's, so it'll all kind of spins off at the same basic group of people. There wasn't that many of us. And Richard was actually have tour organizer. He's from Houston, Texas. So used to do our Houston events. And then he ended up coming out here and uh, and following on that path. So Oakland and Berkeley have always been huge on this. And this is the thing about Oakland and Berkeley.

Speaker 3: They're innovative cities. They want to innovate. We want to do this. We want to be first. We're fine. Let's, uh, let's trailblaze I'm on the medical cannabis and the cannabis issue from Oakland and Berkeley. Places that have openminded elected officials who are willing to do the hard work to create good regulations and then they can be replicated. What we want to do in Oakland is pass laws, put them in place and see them work and inform the state regulations that are soon to come. Which brings us to those state regulations that are on the ballot. Right? Well, we've got to. We've got this statewide medical marijuana law that just passed called Melissa. It's actually three laws together that's got some pretty big flaws. Talk, talk about them. Let's get the, let's get this. What do. I'm trying to think. What are the worst flaws, the flaws and all these laws or the taxation.

Speaker 3: We can't. We really can't do anything about the tax schemes. There are part of what's being put in play right now are these huge tax schemes that tax every level of cannabis. They're going to ultimately increase the price of cannabis at the retail level, which of course the, the worry there is our goal is to end the, the elicit market place and get people kind of out of that and into the above ground marketplace. But if you overcharge for the stuff at the counter, at a retail place, people will stay in the illicit market place. So what we're seeing unfortunately in Washington that's mmr site, or are you also talking about Alma or both of them have these taxation schemes that we're going to have to work out. It's going to be a lingering problem with prohibition. We're going to have to live with them and those are going to have to be changed by future votes were when we can't get away with them.

Speaker 3: For Murcia though, the big problem that I see is that they've mandated this, um, distribution that we have to have an alcohol like alcohol system. So in the state of California, I think there's five alcohol distributors, it might be six. Every drop of alcohol goes through them, lands with them, and they sell it out from there. So somehow I believe, and don't quote me on this, but I think what happened is that the alcohol industry got Ahold of the immersive regulations and they were able to put in play this distributor ship model. Some immersive has a distributor model. All the cannabis has to go to a distributor and then the distributor sells it out to the, to the retail companies. What does this do for you and your vote? I'm voting yes on Alma. Alma needs to pass. We need to legalize it in California.

Speaker 3: Almost not perfect, but the fixes can be managed. They're manageable in the future when we have prohibition is not manageable to tax revenue goes to research and to education and different things like that. And then to communities affected by the war on drugs. So if alma passes, Oakland stands to get a lot of tax dollars to repair. The harm is done by the war on drugs right here in our streets. Why is there a thought that there is no tax revenue going to education? Well, I think people just get overwhelmed. It's like you read that first big thing where it's going to cops and you can't think past that and I think that's what happened. What's happened, and there's a lot of misinformation about alma going around being spread by people that aren't supporters and we have to educate people about what's really in there, what the, what the real are, how we can fix them, and guess what, when any law is made, whether by whether it's by our legislature like this, like the initiative citizens have to implement these laws.

Speaker 3: We have to remember there's not. If we let some big brother implement the laws that we create, maybe it's not going to go so good. You can't just make a law and expect it to be implemented. It's certainly not what happened in Berkeley. The citizens had to come in and implement the initiative that we made, so we have to stick with almost all the way through implementation and success. So there, there, there's what it is, right? It's not just getting things on the ballot and having them pass, it's not that it's not and see if this is a little bit of the disconnect and the problem is that the money for our initiative is coming from outside. We have big funders coming in who aren't Californians, they're bringing in the money and we have an organization that's formed to pass Alma, but it'll go away after all my passes and then what organization is going to follow through on the implementation.

Speaker 3: We don't know. So there needs to be an organization that picks up the activism. What are we getting at there? What do you mean? So after we passed the law, there's going to be the period of time where the regulations are written so the regulations are matter even as much or maybe more than the law itself because that is the rule book of how it's going to go into place in the state of California. So we have to make sure that our advocacy groups exist and that we watch and we and we bulldog those regulations so that we get workable regulations. Americans for safe access. Are you familiar with the organization? Yeah. Co founded that organization on the board of directors that actually founded in the office that we had our Berkeley Cannabis consumers union. We, when we, um, when we closed cannabis action network, we started Americans for safe access as a project of cannabis action network, but then we realized, wait, it's not the project anymore.

Speaker 3: It is the organization. Yeah. And so we, uh, closed cannabis action network and just change the native Americans for safe access. Is that the type of organization we're talking about or is there a more nuanced necessity? You tell me, what are you, what are we, what are we saying here? Because you've got an audience. We're speaking to an audience that will say, God it Debbie. Okay. What can I do? Right. I bet that there's not going to be one big organization that comes together to make these rules go into place. So the organization I saw, they've raised $14,000,000. That's really good. Well, I think they're going to get that law passed, but when Alma goes away, I don't think we'll have a repository that will be raising the money to implement this law. It's going to be more of a diaspora, so California normal. I'm a board member there. We're going to work hard on the regulations. The California Cannabis Industries Association, they're gonna work. There's some growers associations. They're going to work, but it's going to be very hard for us all to get together under one umbrella and come up with a series of demands and at work together to use our voice. Will you keep. You keep saying things like, it's going to be very hard for us to do this, but all you've been doing

Speaker 4: is succeeding as far as cannabis activism all of these years. Oh, that's very nice. What are we doing just fine? Well, I'm sitting here, Debbie, partly because of what you've done. Let's be honest. You know what I mean? People are listening right now because of what you have done. So now we've got a moment of action. What do we do? What do we do? You know, there's all these groups that are absolutely going to try to kind of help.

Speaker 3: Um, what, what is the unifying kind of look, I wouldn't be so worried about this or worried. That's what I am wondering. Why am I worried? Because the advocacy groups, including the ones I just named, yeah. We formed the coalition CCPR coalition for cannabis policy reform and we wrote an initiative and we tried to raise the money and we tried to do it and guess what? We couldn't, we couldn't raise the money. Why? Because our own people, guess what? We forgot to teach people all that time that they got to pay for the movement. We didn't teach them that and ever since 1996 when the first laws came out, they have always been funded by a small group of very wealthy people and that small group of very wealthy people then has a lot of influence on how the laws are written. And then as I mentioned, they pass the laws and then they go away and they leave the people in the state to implement the laws.

Speaker 3: And all throughout all of the laws is as they've changed its implementations, always been a rocky road and very hard Oregon, very hard implementing medical marijuana and did a great job and they're doing a great job also with their adult personal use laws up there. Yeah. And I'm friends with the advocates up there who have to sit on top of those meetings and the regulatory meetings and and get on the commissions that are going to implement this thing and lobby the commissions. And we never had. We just never have a central repository to put off all of our eggs in a basket. We just kind of all go do our own thing and I understand why we all have different missions. I'm a dispensary person. I'm to. I might have a different need than a cultivation person and and we might not be able to come up with a set of core desires that meet both of our needs.

Speaker 3: We might both go to the regulators and say we have different needs and the regulator is going to have to pick the best idea then. So unless we can get together and come up with sort of a one umbrella organization that we can all work under for implementation, the regulators are gonna get hit by all of us with different ideas and they're going to do whatever they want. But we have tons of organizations. We don't, we have enough organization to find one of them. No, you know what I mean? We're so individualistic. We'll probably end up with a thousand organizations all doing. So, you know, that's the thing. It's just a um, everybody, uh, there's a lot of what, of what I'm sure

Speaker 4: that if you and Steve to talking about two people said the same thing to a group of people. The group of people would do whatever you were talking about. Right? Well,

Speaker 3: look up. This is kind of what Oakland is trying to do. There's the city of Oakland's is my spokesperson right now in the city of Oakland. We're trying to make regulations. We made a law. Now we're making the regulations. We want our regulations to work and we were going to make really good regulations and that we're going to prove that they work. And then we're going to provide those to the state, right? That's how we're going to do it here. So what we've decided to do ourselves, we made these manufacturing regulations for making edibles, lemonade, onsite consumption regulations. Somebody has got to be first. So we're first. It's nightmarish because when you're first, oh my gosh, so much work, so many inspections and then. But it does give you the chance to show the government how it's done, here's how it's done. And then they can adopt our ideas into the regulations they made.

Speaker 3: Our idea is we'll make our own standard operating procedures for how to make edibles and how to do onsite consumption will provide them to the city, the city. Maybe we'll adopt those into regulations that other people will be able to use and implement and follow. And then the state will adopt those into regulations that other people will follow. So for us, this onsite consumption permits really important because we wrote the protocols that we'd like to be seen adopted into regulations at the city level and at the state level. So we're ready to be first. So. Okay, so that's it. So that that's what you do. You've got to do it. I'm just going to be first. We're going to get it done. We had our day hearing a week ago. We're first. They don't know what to do. If they scratch their heads, they go, well, you know your first.

Speaker 3: Yeah, no we are. So let's, ah, let's see what we can do. So we felt we were first with fire. We're first with building were first with environmental health, the health department and we'll see where it goes. I have not even asked you. I'm sure a ton of questions that folks would want to know the answers to. Do you mind if we do this again at some point? Oh yeah, that'd be fun. I noticed you come around every once in a while. I'm sure. Maybe next time we'll be in the cafe. Indeed, yeah. They have 30 days to give us our conditions that hopefully it's not a big. No actually are hearing what so great. It was publicly announced, you know, so all the neighbors got to complain if they want it to only got one phone call. They didn't even get a letter, nobody came to the hearing.

Speaker 3: Only one guy called, you know, what his complaint was. I don't think they should put a dispensary in that location. We've been here three years. What are you even talking about? That was the only complaint we had, um, which is, which is wonderful because that's, that shows you exactly what a dispensary does in their community that's really creates all this unrest and everything that he doesn't even know that you're here for three years. It seen at Berkeley patients group with the school that was 600 feet away from us, found out that we were there 10 years into our existence that they couldn't even believe it. You know, the whole story. How can we have a marijuana dispensary so close to school? Well, you never said anything the first 10 years. Then they got that changed, didn't they? Yeah. The Berkeley patients group had to relocate because of that. And you know why? Because we were actually, I think we're at 579 feet from that place and we had to be 600 feet from it. Of course the law didn't even say we had to be 600 feet from it because they grandfathered us in, but it was just a decorum issue where those, that the parents wouldn't get over it, and then we had to move. The good neighbor is and requires sometimes this type of thing, you know? Okay, we're right, but we get it. Exactly. Do you, you know

Speaker 4: how, uh, how much it matters if you're right or not. Right?

Speaker 3: Right. How about we just tell the truth and fall escience.

Speaker 4: Tell the truth and follow science. I'm quoting Debbie Goldsberry on that. I have three final questions. Debbie. I'm going to tell you what they are and then Alaska, you them in order. What has most surprised you in cannabis? What has most surprised you in life and on the soundtrack of Debbie Goldsberry is life. What is one track? One song that's got to be on there, which is either the most difficult or the easiest question? First things first. What has most surprised you in cannabis?

Speaker 3: The ongoing innovations. I cannot believe the new products that are constantly coming out and I cannot believe. I just think what's it going to be like in a year? I'm going to even be more blown away by what kind of availability of different kinds of cannabis medicines and ways to consume them. So I've been amazed at the developments in science and in, in the technology of cannabis in the bed. Now we know that CBD exists. Thca exists. It's amazing.

Speaker 4: So I mean you're talking product, you're talking to science, you're talking also biology. You mentioned the endoccanabinoid system.

Speaker 3: We didn't know any of this stuff 10 years ago and this is all new, so it's really amazing. I mean, cannabis has been used as a medicine for 10,000 years. It's only in the last 10 years that we're finally getting some good innovation on this stuff. Right? Well we skipped 80 years and now we're back at a little prohibition to get through. Yeah, but people can't see it of course, but we have the cannabis museum on the wall here and the cannabis museum is a collection of photos of cannabis medicine bottles. They start in the mid 18 hundreds and they go right up to 1937 when they made the law against prohibition. The wall is full of patent medicines. Those corn medicines who knew that cannabis was so good for corn, but there's like 15, 20 different corn formulas up there for, for marijuana. Unbelievable. Yet. So cannabis, you know, and back then they knew it was medicine. We just lost that. We lost that info. You write for that 80 years,

Speaker 4: which is a remarkable, but what is also remarkable is that you start out on this journey in the eighties knowing that you've got a point and knowing that you're right and it's even. It's thousands of times better than you even anticipated. How crazy is that? We, we always felt empowered by the fact that we were telling the truth and the government was lying. Yeah. So it's just more of that type of thing. It turns out that it's just even better. Heck yeah. What has most surprised you in life will be fine.

Speaker 3: The Internet. I was having this thought, how am I going to keep learning? How am I going to get as much info as I want to get about everything I want to know about and I don't even know that I want to know it yet. How am I going to find out? Yeah. So I remember in the eighties thinking I'm going to graduate college, how am I going to learn anything anymore? And I thought that looked like a really bleak future. So what am I most excited about? I can learn any dang thing I want right now at the click of a button. And I think that is amazing. That's pretty. It is pretty. You got to check your sources, check your sources. Be They

Speaker 2: taught us then rhetoric did. Yes. But it's still pretty amazed. That's right. Okay. On the soundtrack of Debbie Goldsberry is life. What is one track? One song that's got to be on? Oh, well that's easy. So grateful. Dead Sugar. Magnolia, sugar max first. Uh, first thing I did when I became the executive director here, um, we put a music system in and we played sugar magnolia as the first song off the off the music blossoms blooming. Heck yeah, that's right. Debbie goldsberry. You will again, are a legend in your own time and our time to kind. This is the truth. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. I'm glad you glad you made it and I look forward to next time. You got it right.

Speaker 1: There you have debbie goldsberry. She, you know, was there a kind of at the beginning of the whole thing, the first steps were taken way back when, but uh, as far as the steps that we continue to take, um, you know, those are from, uh, her first few steps too much, maybe not a Barbara Blazer. What a pleasure. And thank you for listening.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.