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Ep.193: Michael Bowman, National Hemp Association & Bethany Moore, NCIA

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.193: Michael Bowman, National Hemp Association & Bethany Moore, NCIA

Ep.193: Michael Bowman, National Hemp Association & Bethany Moore, NCIA

Michael Bowman joins us to discuss hemp. We discuss a little history going back to our founding farmers. And we have THE conversation about the plant’s non-recreational offerings of food, fiber, fuel and “f”arma to name a few. Michael discusses the fact that he’s a farmer by birth so he understands just how this crop could help the farmers of America. And we discuss just what hemp’s role could be in the greater american economy and society if we in fact let it save the world. But Bethany Moore our friend from the NCIA first joins us to discuss her two new books of poetry. She certainly covers the base issues of humanity. And as you’ll learn she’s an appropriate guest for an episode that goes up on Halloween.

Transcript:

Speaker 1: Michael Bowman and Bethany more. Michael Bowman joins us to discuss hamp. We discussed a little history going back to our founding fathers and then we have the conversation around the plants, non recreational offerings of food, fiber, fuel, Pharma to name a few. Michael discusses the fact that he's a farmer by birth, so he understands just how this crop could help the farmers of American. We discuss just what role could be in the greater American economy and society if we in fact let it save the world, but Bethany more. Our friend from the NCIA first joins us to discuss her two new books of poetry. She certainly covers the base issues of humanity and as you'll learn, she's inappropriate guests for an episode that goes up on Halloween. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handicapped economy. That's the word economy. Michael Bowman proceeded by Bethany.

Speaker 2: Have you thought about maybe like a shake, like an energy shake?

Speaker 3: You know, sometimes those work that takes work five fruits and vegetables short to put them in the blender and. No, it's just.

Speaker 2: And then you've got to clean it, that the, my main thing is, then you've got to clean it.

Speaker 3: Terrible. Just too much going on. I need a personal personal assistant here.

Speaker 2: That's right. It's a personal assistant, personal trainer, personal, uh, life coach, whatever it may be. Bethany, more of the National Cannabis Industry Association. Welcome. Thank you. This is the first kind of extra curricular interview that we've done. And what I mean by that is that you've just published a couple of a books, I guess is what should call them because they are of poetry and you and I talked about it. I said, well, when they get published, we have to talk about it on the podcast. So, so here we are.

Speaker 3: I'm so excited. Thank you for joining me.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well you're welcome. So let's do I guess the second one first, right? Because that's what's happening. That's, that is what happened.

Speaker 3: Sure. The second one is titled Whether Magic, a collection of poetry in witchcraft and it's a collection of poems basically over the last 15 years. I'm in my mid twenties of writing and I took the good ones and, and uh, think they're arranged quite nicely, I think with a lot of themes of nature, volcanoes, wildfires, things like that.

Speaker 2: So weather is, is raindrop weather, snow and wind. You got it. Okay. And whether magic, because weather is magical,

Speaker 3: uh, whether magic because it sits with the themes. I'm an imagery of the ponds as I mentioned, and as a person who practices paganism or Wicca or witchcraft or whatever you'd like to call it. Um, it's, it's a strong theme in my writing so you can see that in just about every poem that I've written and it just seemed like a good title.

Speaker 1: Michael Bowman and Bethany more. Michael Bowman joins us to discuss hamp. We discussed a little history going back to our founding fathers and then we have the conversation around the plants, non recreational offerings of food, fiber, fuel, Pharma to name a few. Michael discusses the fact that he's a farmer by birth, so he understands just how this crop could help the farmers of American. We discuss just what role could be in the greater American economy and society if we in fact let it save the world, but Bethany more. Our friend from the NCIA first joins us to discuss her two new books of poetry. She certainly covers the base issues of humanity and as you'll learn, she's inappropriate guests for an episode that goes up on Halloween. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handicapped economy. That's the word economy. Michael Bowman proceeded by Bethany.

Speaker 2: Have you thought about maybe like a shake, like an energy shake?

Speaker 3: You know, sometimes those work that takes work five fruits and vegetables short to put them in the blender and. No, it's just.

Speaker 2: And then you've got to clean it, that the, my main thing is, then you've got to clean it.

Speaker 3: Terrible. Just too much going on. I need a personal personal assistant here.

Speaker 2: That's right. It's a personal assistant, personal trainer, personal, uh, life coach, whatever it may be. Bethany, more of the National Cannabis Industry Association. Welcome. Thank you. This is the first kind of extra curricular interview that we've done. And what I mean by that is that you've just published a couple of a books, I guess is what should call them because they are of poetry and you and I talked about it. I said, well, when they get published, we have to talk about it on the podcast. So, so here we are.

Speaker 3: I'm so excited. Thank you for joining me.

Speaker 2: Yeah, well you're welcome. So let's do I guess the second one first, right? Because that's what's happening. That's, that is what happened.

Speaker 3: Sure. The second one is titled Whether Magic, a collection of poetry in witchcraft and it's a collection of poems basically over the last 15 years. I'm in my mid twenties of writing and I took the good ones and, and uh, think they're arranged quite nicely, I think with a lot of themes of nature, volcanoes, wildfires, things like that.

Speaker 2: So weather is, is raindrop weather, snow and wind. You got it. Okay. And whether magic, because weather is magical,

Speaker 3: uh, whether magic because it sits with the themes. I'm an imagery of the ponds as I mentioned, and as a person who practices paganism or Wicca or witchcraft or whatever you'd like to call it. Um, it's, it's a strong theme in my writing so you can see that in just about every poem that I've written and it just seemed like a good title.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I was, that's what I was trying to delicately get to your, uh, uh, I, unless should we call it religious philosophy or a how do you view that? Your spirituality. There you go. Alright. So that's the second one, but it should have been the first one and it was put on the back burner for the second one, which became the first one. And I'm confusing people for no reason. But uh, what's the other book that's now out?

Speaker 3: Well, to explain, I started, started the work on footing what would be whether magic together in January this year, right. With a goal of completing it by September. Um, but at the end of March I got some news about a person that's been in my life for about 20 years that he had, that he had died. He passed away. He was hit by a car and didn't make it. Um, so that's really the first time somebody in my life has died actually in all of these 33, 34 years. So if it hit me pretty hard and I went through a process of grieving and mourning and part of that was digging up everything I'd ever written about one in the last 20 years became the project that I put ahead of finishing whether magic.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And it sounds like for, for good reason that I, this year even, um, have a very good friend whose, whose brother passed away from a car accident as, as well, I, he's, he's a friend of mine as well. Um, and, you know, it's never good. Um, but there, there's, it's so immediate with a, with something like a car accident and, you know, usually taking folks that, uh, did it, it seems like it's not their time. Right,

Speaker 3: right. Very much so. Yeah.

Speaker 2: So as far as, you know, the, the nature of the relationship so we can understand the poetry that's, that's within, um, it sounds like this is a, you know, somewhat of a complex relationship.

Speaker 3: It was a complex relationship and he was a complexity and I will definitely say that although we never had any formal romantic relationship, we are certainly in love with each other. I would consider him a soulmate or a part of my soul tribe. And he would come in and out of my life at different times or I would move on. And so we were never in the same place at the same time for very long. But when we were together, it was very intense, very passionate, a very, very important times in my life when he and I were together.

Speaker 2: What uh, what made him a dynamic? You say he was an interesting guy.

Speaker 3: Uh, he was a Scorpio. He was brilliant, charismatic, kind of wander, a magician.

Speaker 2: Oh, an actual magician.

Speaker 3: No, just kind of a magical person. Um, he, he shared enough of my beliefs that we could converse about manifestation and being connected to nature and things like that. So he understood me in a lot of ways, you know, he, he also had a drug addiction, which, which was the hardest thing and probably one of the reasons why we didn't have a permanent relationship.

Speaker 2: What got him, what was it?

Speaker 3: Um, well, in addition to alcoholism, um, he struggled on and off with heroin, which I really can't wrap my head around personally have trouble that, um, but I was always afraid that that was going to be how he passed away. But it, it was, it was a car accident. He was hit by a car crossing the street.

Speaker 2: This is life. And, uh, it's um, well, it's an interesting thing, life. It really is. It throws you curve balls, uh, almost consistently. Um, so as far as these kind of groups have a poetry, these books of poetry, um, what, what can I expect if I put them both together, you know, um, what can I expect as a reader? What kind of journey are you putting me on?

Speaker 3: Well, book about. Benny was just called the Cicada and the firefly, a study of love insects. Um, that book a kicks off with the poems that I wrote, um, within a few weeks of learning he had passed away and then immediately jumped back 20 years to 1996 and goes forward all the way through the last time. One of the last times I saw him in 2009. So it is a story of watching a teenager in love with this older guy already had a drug addiction at that point and being frustrated with them but in love with them. Right? It's a little creepy and haunting in some ways. Uh, one of my friends who read it, she, she loved it and looked at it and looked at me and said, you knew she was going to have a short life. I can by the things you wrote 10, 15 years ago, one way or another. Right. What about whether magic, what, uh, what kind of journey is that? I think you'll get deep into some imagery about my personal journey through the use of this nature. Imagery, you know, a lot of, a lot of broken heart in struggle and I'm trying to find my identity and those sorts of themes will be, will be underneath and hidden inside of those. That's cool. Alright, well you've self publish them. Yes. And they're available on Amazon, is that right? Uh, yeah.

Speaker 2: You know, if you are listening, you have heard which, uh, which ones, which you can make the choice or just go ahead and get a, get them both at the same time. They also, I mean, holidays are coming up, Bethany. These could be, you know, gifts.

Speaker 3: They absolutely could. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2: Uh, for the um, I guess for the Pagan in your life. Right.

Speaker 3: Um, I would like to think that a lot and pagans would enjoy it as well.

Speaker 2: Indeed. Well, I can't wait. I'm looking forward to him. A final question, um, is one that we ask everyone, which is on the soundtrack of your life named one track one song that's got to be on there, Beth anymore. What would that be?

Speaker 3: Um, I, I, I always liked that song. Bittersweet symphony, but the verb. Oh, sure. Yeah, it sounds on there for sure.

Speaker 2: When it came out. Uh, it sounded like it was you youtube, but it was the verve. It really, it's very good. It's a very good song. I'm surprised it hasn't come up.

Speaker 3: What's your favorite song on the soundtrack of your life?

Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Very few people have ever asked me this. I think I have said once and so I'll just say the same song again. Everybody's everything by Santana because it's a, somewhat of an explosion.

Speaker 3: Yeah,

Speaker 2: a Beth anymore. Uh, always a pleasure. Our first recorded conversation. I feel like it went well.

Speaker 3: Oh, thank you sir.

Speaker 2: And thank you. Amazon.com. Right? Type in Beth anymore. Pick up the CICADA and the firefly and whether magic. How'd I do on the titles?

Speaker 3: Absolutely correct. Thank you.

Speaker 1: Uganda, Beth. Anymore. See you soon. Operating Insecurity in the cannabis industry. Since 2009 Canada security America has become one of the largest total solution security companies in the US with new management, new leadership, and new ownership. CSA provides everything from systems and monitoring to armor, transportation for movement of cash as well as security arm guards. The three essential elements of security for any cannabis business. CSA provides the highest level of quality service in Colorado, Oregon, Arizona, California, Washington, and Nevada. Go to Canada. Security.com/can economy for more information. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. This works out. All right. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, Michael Bowman,

Speaker 4: how are you alive? Great. Seth, but to be here, you know, I come to Colorado often, but uh, we're in la because you came here. I did as a representative of who I am. I'm the board chair of the National Hemp Association. Okay. So we haven't really talked about hemp here on the cannabis economy. And, uh, this will be the first foray into it. So let's go through the basics, right? Well, the basic set of, of, of Hamp is that it is cannabis sativa. It is that those plants at the contain less than point three percent thc. But unfortunately under federal law there is no differentiation of thc levels amongst any cannabis sativa. So from a federal perspective, it's lumped in on schedule one with marijuana and everything else that is, that is on yet, in fact, it is a plant that has no psychoactive properties. Uh, was the crop literally the crop of our founding fathers.

Speaker 4: It was grown on Thomas Jefferson's motto. Cello was brought on board a grown on Washington's Mount Vernon, uh, you know, we've, for years and 18, and in fact, in 18, 62, there were 16 million acres of hemp being grown in the United States. Our draft documents from the declaration of independence and the constitution, the drafts were written on hemp paper, Benjamin Franklin's paper mills relied on hemp paper to, you know, to, uh, to help found our, our, our country. So then the first question obviously would be, what happened? Well, you have to, you have to roll back to 1937. Okay. Right. Uh, when, when they instituted a marijuana tax, uh, so they didn't really make it illegal. They taxed it out of existence. Uh, that was, uh, that was, uh, uh, uh, a timeframe in which there was also the hydrocarbon economy was, was moving forward to keep in mind at that time, Henry Ford had envisioned a bio economy.

Speaker 4: He had built his iron mountain facility in Michigan. He was working on all kinds of, of bioproducts, uh, he was getting ready to, to roll out his, his four door sedan made from industrial hemp composites half the weight of steel twice as strong a. and he envisioned a car that was, that was grown from the soil and ran from the soil. His, his, his wasn't going to be a biofuels future. Uh, at that same time, also, Rockefeller discovered all of his oil reserves in western Pennsylvania. Dupont had been working with is authentic. Uh, Mr hearst owned massive amounts of forests and wanted his paper made from his forest. And so there was just this interesting intersection of time when we have all of that happening. You have the war star just be just before the war effort. And uh, so we, we, we were just post prohibition, there was an army of, of federal agents that they treasure needed something to do with its alcohol prohibition and alcohol, part of this audience, alcohol prohibition.

Speaker 4: And so it was just this kind of, this toxic stew of what do we do next? Yeah. Uh, so they, and there was a real, you know, there was a real anti marijuana push at the time, the reefer madness days. And so, uh, they, they started with the marijuana tax and unfortunately then farmers were growing industrial hemp, uh, we're, we're caught up in that and it was taxed out of existence. And then, uh, with the exception of, of, of a, a small, a short period of time during World War II when we had the hemp for victory campaign whereby our government actually encouraged and forced farmers to grow hemp for the war effort because the military was very dependent on, on hemp fiber or just to take that tension for what? For clothing, for rope, uh, uh, for predominantly those troops supplies, uh, we were getting our, our, our fiber at that time from the Philippines and the, and the Japanese cut off our supply lines to, that's where farmers, uh, we're, we're required to grow it.

Speaker 4: Now, interestingly enough, in 1942, our government sent packets of seed to every four h club children in Kentucky to grow the crop. And 42, four, multiply for seed now so that the 19, 43 crop, then it can be grown over a seven state region in the Midwest. So if you look at the irony of all of this today, they, the, the federal government literally treats this, uh, on, on par with meth. Sure. From a scheduling perspective. And we had four h kids growing it in 42 for the war effort. So on came this marijuana tax. And you differentiated, you said industrial hemp. And I hear industrial hemp all the time. We all do. Why do we have to call it industrial hemp versus just plain ha? Well, the significance of it in part is in 1969 when the controlled substances act was being put in place, uh, the, the congress actually specifically narrated in there that nothing in that act was meant to preclude the cultivation of hemp grown for industrial purposes.

Speaker 4: A Nixon ignored that. And by executive order it ended up on the controlled Substances Act any way. They just throw it all together. So, uh, so industrial hemp is really, really number four for something other than recreational use, right? It's to be feed, fuel, fiber, industrial, hemp and hemp are synonyms. Yes, they are. Okay. They are looking at that. Yeah. Industrial hemp though does sound more like what it is. It is, you know, it, as I, as I, as I mentioned, it's food feed, fuel, fiber, uh, and, and, and, and in fact, Pharma. Now, today, if you, if you think of the, of the health pro health components, subcomponents of the plant, it's the five F's. Well, let's, let's knock those down. Let's take one effort at a time, I think was first food was first. You know, that the hemp seed is one of the best protein products.

Speaker 4: Uh, there, there are on the market, uh, and one of the most, the, the most digestible protein, uh, of anything you can, you can consume, right? And now I've seen that in, in whole foods, right? My, my hemp seed, a little baggies. How were they able to sell that? Well, interestingly enough, the United States is the largest consumer market in the world for him products and the, and the only g seven nation that prohibits its farmers from a federal, from a federal perspective, to cultivate it. Well, we know about that part, but square the circle of how we're already assuming it's not illegal to import him from other countries. It's just illegal to grow it. Well, that makes all the sense in the. Of course that doesn't totally. Our government could design something like this, you know, the gymnastics that need to happen. Yeah. So that's how I have my, my bag of hemp seeds that I get it at whole foods.

Speaker 4: So that's number one is food. And we're already ingesting the most. We have a $600, million to $700 billion market today. Besides the hemp seeds. What else? We have most of the protein, the powders. So if you, if you, if you a cold press, the, the seed, you'll get hemp oil, which you can also buy in health. Food stores have very rich and um, in, in the omega is a balanced set, very, very similar to fish oil. In fact, many would say it's close enough that it's a good replacement for Fisher. We could literally solve the problem of overfishing in the ocean of which, which has been caused in large part by the insatiable global demand for fish oil, right? Uh, with hemp oil. Okay. Once you do that, then you have a protein shake left that protein cake again as something you'd, you'd buy in the protein powder as a protein powder in the aisle at whole foods or, or frankly, it isn't just a whole foods issue anywhere you go to Safeway, Kroger's bonds, everybody has a little lamp on the shelf.

Speaker 4: Heb. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to throw a regional guy. Uh, and then also if you look at the, the protein sources for animal agriculture, we know that there are people, uh, it's, this is being driven by consumer demand, right? By the way, 98 percent of the soy beans in the United States today are gmos. They're being bathed in glyphosate, uh, and used in the, in the supply chain for most of the protein requirements in our food supply. And consumers are frankly not, don't believe the government when they say that the glyphosate glyphosate is not a carcinogen, uh, and that they want, they want options. So we know right now that the, there's a consumer demand driving people that particularly in the, in the egg industry, the chicken egg industry, but also in the poultry industry, just for poultry meats to start displacing soy protein with hemp protein.

Speaker 4: But we can't grow it, but we can't grow it. We'll get to that in a second. Second F. Yeah, for food feed feed, which we, we just, we just talked about. Uh, so we, we, we've, we've an aquaculture frankly in a fish, uh, we know that it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a near perfect fish food as well. So in the aquaculture world also an application. Amazing. Alright. Fuel I think is third, third fuel fuel is. And this was when we go back to our Henry Ford discussion, uh, the, the hemp stalk of the biomass part of the stock, the stock that isn't a food component of that plant, uh, is, is, is a great feedstock for an advanced biofuel. Ford was making ethanol and methanol out of it at the time. And so we know that we could displace a lot of our fuel needs with that.

Speaker 4: Now there's a lot of probably worthy of an entire segment, the whole issue of the advanced biofuels, the ethanol and the system, the collision between federal policy and what we could produce a, but at the end of the day, the hemp stock a is a, is a prolific producer of biomass and that can be, that can be economically converted into biofuels for the current fleet of automobiles and trucks and things that are on the road. Absolutely about about 25 to 30 percent of our, of, of our liquid petroleum that when you put in your car tank is a, is aromatics, so benzine, tyleen, xylene, those three aromatics are caustic to human health. We've known since the Clean Air Act, EPA has actually had the authority to regulate them out, uh, of the, of the system, but because of the influence of the petroleum industry on Capitol Hill have always been on, had been unable to do so.

Speaker 4: Ethanol advanced ethanol could displace those three aromatics and, and eliminate those health, those health risks, uh, from, from our missions. Okay. So they, all, these are just terrible. So far. This sounds horrible. Fourth, fourth that we're, what are we up to? Fiber, fiber. So we're back to, uh, you know, our, our, our, our fabric, back to we're back, we're, we're back to pulp for paper. We're back to what we, what we were, uh, and uh, you know, uh, a, an acre of hemp absorbs four times more atmosphere co two annually than a standing forest. But what do you mean what does that. So if you think about, uh, as we're talking about climate mitigation issues, and one thing we need to do is pull CEO two out of the year that can come from healthy soils that comes from the crops that we choose to choose to grow is generally, I think, believed that if we just plant more trees, that's, that's, that's solving part of the problem.

Speaker 4: And yet right now we could, if we, for every acre of hemp, we, we can, we can pull more atmospheric co two from the air and put it back into the soil that we could with a standing forest. Uh, and that, that creates a long chain of carbons in hemp, which is why the navy used it for rope and, and, and, and, uh, in suits and clothing in the early days. It's a very durable fiber, uh, and uh, and, and, and provides us a lot of environmental benefits in this growing cycle. So if you compare it to, let's say, let's just say today is cotton world. Sure, cotton is grown on about three percent of the global acreage. It consumes somewhere around give or take a little 25 percent of all pesticides and herbicides consumed. It takes a lot of water to grow it. Uh, if you, if you compare that and contrast that to a hemp plant, which needs a fraction of the water a cotton crop would, would need and doesn't need any pesticides or herbicides and could produce four times more fiber per acre than a cotton crop.

Speaker 4: Then you look at it and say, well, there's, there's plenty of reasons. Let's just look at California as an example with your new climate action plan. Sure. Because of the drought. You because of the drought and you think of of Industrial Hampshire role and possibilities in that as a displacement crop that can not only absorb a lot of atmospheric co two, but create a lot of new opportunities in the central valley and make the what little water we do have golf go farther and, and better. So that's just one example. We would have had the same discussions with some third generation cotton growers in Arizona who have said know our granddad did do cotton. We grew cotton. We think this is a really bad idea to go to camp. No, no. To maintenance to continue the current system we're in. We want to look at options.

Speaker 4: Good. You know. So I think there's a real awakening and part of that is, you know, it's a push pull on this. Part of it is getting that, getting our voice out gonna. Make sure that people like yourself and, or anybody knows the facts and what [inaudible] role could be in an economy for a number of reasons. Whether it's jobs or resource consumption or climate mitigation. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's all in play. What's the fifth f? Just before we say Pharma, you know, we have a cbd production that's coming out for P, h a r, m, a s, F arm. It's the three, uh, it, the three r's, reading, writing, and arithmetic. That's exactly right. So now, you know, we know what we know that these sub components of the plant, whether it's cbd or any of the other extensions of, of the CBS are, and what they can do for general health.

Speaker 4: Uh, these are uh, you know, frankly, these are the components that we did. We were just understanding more about, uh, and uh, so it's a really exciting time because if you look at the breadth of the, of the role of the cannabis plant and what it can do, you're gonna understand why 12,000 years ago, you can track it back 12,000 years. It was part of a civilization then. Sure. And it does provide us with a lot of opportunities. I, I hate to be, I'm an old farm kids, so I hate to be one to overhype anything. I generally try to shy away from that, but it's hard not to overhype this plant and an old farm as far as. I just want to make him an old farm boy. All right, so let's take this tangent. Where are you from? I'm from Colorado, so this works out okay.

Speaker 4: This works out really well. It was a very active in the campaign to legalize. We legalized both industrial hemp and recreational use on the same ballot initiative. He, interestingly enough, that was amendment 64 and prop 64 years, so I don't know if that was by accident or by design, but it was by accident, but I love, I love this, you know, 64 words, you know, let's just keep going with it. And so Colorado and it became the first unit of government in the world to end prohibition, you know, it is in our constitution. Our farmers have the right to grow and, and, and our citizens have the right to consume. So we're, you know, we're really proud of that and that really set the dominoes falling. If you think back to 2012 when we pass that today, we have 29 states that have now fallen.

Speaker 4: Colorado's lead illegalizing industrial hemp at the state level is concurrent with that. Now we're trying to tackle the problems with the federal at the federal level, uh, with the industrial hemp farming act, uh, which is Senate bill 1:34 and house bill five slash 25, which would reschedule schedule industrial hemp from, from the controlled substances. So here's where you get some of the audience that's going to fall away from you, right? Because you're separating the plan, right? Just those two. Let's talk about it so that we understand. Well, for starters, we, we, we look at this as an agricultural crop. If you go back to the founding of our nation, this was an agricultural clop, like, like anything else we are growing, whether it was corn or a whatever it might be, and it just needs to be completely scheduled. Now, part of our problem at the federal level is, and why this is part is carved out is because the United States is a signatory to a 1961 UN single single convention treaty on narcotics that defines what is marijuana and what isn't.

Speaker 4: At that point, three percent is part of that treaty. It's a number that arguably nobody knew what that I mean there, I think, I believe the French were the ones that proposed this, the point three level. You're just saying that to get people to agree with you, I always like it when people agree with me, but I'm not always right. But for the US to sign that treaty, I mean, in fairness, everyone was doing it it correct. I mean it was a treaty, but initially enough from an industrial hemp perspective, yeah, six of the seven g seven nations and China who were all signatories to that have basically thumbing their nose and said, we're not, you know, we're gonna go, we're gonna grow industrial hemp. Right? Uh, and, and today, if in conversations and part of the argument with dea for really trying to keep their hands on this is their argument is, hey, we're, it's, it's our obligation for to keep our country compliant with the 1961 treaty.

Speaker 4: Uh, and so they see that as, as not carving out industrial hemp, all, you know, all of the addresses as cannabis sativa, marijuana, right. And so for them, whether it's a, whether it's a ruse for some other reason or whether they really believe that even though everybody else has left that, that convention from the industrial hemp perspective perspective, we haven't. What is your talking point a to the folks that want to legalize and dea scheduled the entire plane? Well, uh, you mean for both, for all, for the entire spectrum of the plant. We're also abortive, I think this country needs a grown up discussion about the whole plant, you know, this is cannabis sativa and it provides us, you know, uh, benefits from on the entire spectrum. So I'm, I'm, I'm one particularly being from Colorado. It's, you know, it's like once we passed that bill, we have grown up discussions at the state level about what it is and what it is and what the challenges are, what works, what doesn't.

Speaker 4: Uh, unfortunately that's a very hard discussion to have anywhere else in the country who hasn't dealt with that at a, at a state level. So you, so, so people, you find that congressmen in particular, they'll, they'll, they'll still see us safe harbor in industrial hemp because you can make a very credible case of why this is an agricultural crop and why it's idiocy. But this is on schedule one a, but they don't want to go anywhere near even medical marijuana. Sure. You know, they won't, they in their mind they have to build this wall. So our perspective, we think that's, you know, it's, it's all a journey. Yeah, absolutely. So as we have these 25 medical states, one by one by one as we have these for adult use stage one by one by one, let's carve up the plant. Yeah, piece by piece by piece.

Speaker 4: And just get the, you get to that adult conversation that we had nowhere near having. Exactly. And, and you know, and that unfortunately, that the only thing is going to change that as the ballot box, right? I mean, that's really what's going to change this conversation because the senior members on Capitol Hill that hold the keys to committee hearings and end this discussion on legislation are from another era. You know, they're there from the reefer madness era. That's what they believe. And uh, you know, uh, my, my parents are 80 you, they are, whether it's, whether it's cannabis or anything else, if you, if you believe something your entire life, it's very hard to unbelieve it. Yeah. You know, so when you look at this becomes a fact. It does. And so you, you know, you really have to, you have to deal with that reality because the people who are holding, like said the gatekeepers, many of them in Washington, uh, are of that genre, you know, that's what the, that's what they are.

Speaker 4: It's somebody that doesn't make them bad people. It just makes that just whatever. That's what happens. So we have to understand everyone's beliefs, allow them to have them and try to bring them, bring them through to me two years with my parents. I've got them there, but it was not a, it was not a journey. Not fraught with. Not Without fraud. It wasn't quick. No, it wasn't quick. Alright. So you said 23 states. Industrial Hub, 29, 29 states industrial hemp. What, uh, where are we in that process? Our plants in the ground in all 29 states or you know? Well, yes, for the most part, uh, interesting enough, Colorado that we're growing more hemp in Colorado this year than all other states combined. We have close to 9,000 acres. Kentucky's just behind that with I think about 4,500, but collectively those 29 states, uh, uh, there are a few states, interestingly enough, your very own California, the sixth largest economy in the world has zero acres grown this year.

Speaker 4: Sure. Uh, that's, that's in part because CTFA hasn't, you know, it really kind of bought in by, by leading, right in Colorado. Our Department of Agriculture is fantastic on this issue. We have a couple hardened warriors on the inside, they're just passionate about this, they get it, and so they've made it very easy for the farmers and Colorado in setting the regulatory schemes and trying to find that balance between realizing we're pioneers. Nobody's out. They're willfully trying to break the law, but because we don't have certified seed, because we don't, there's a lot of unknowns, you know, people are going to get tripped up once in a while. So what we wanted in Colorado was to have a, an environment where we were, we allowed entrepreneurship to flourish and let farmers go out there and make mistakes and they weren't going to be fatal. But if you look at the situation like for instance here in California, you know, very, very different scenarios.

Speaker 4: CTFA hasn't taken it on as a cause. They haven't put the, the permitting process in place. There's just doesn't appear to be a champion inside CTFA, uh, for that. So we need a voice, uh, in each geography that, that's a clear. And that's true with the rest of the plant, so to speak. And I can point to every state where, where things are really happening and you have a small handful of real, you know, they're advocates are passionate about. And when you say where things are really happening, what kind of numbers do we have so far, because, you know, we talked about the five x a four plus one f yeah. And uh, and you know, we can see the future, how, you know, how realized is that case, uh, on the ground in the 29 states or at least in Colorado or wherever. Well, it's, it's, it's varied.

Speaker 4: And you know, in Colorado we have, we have, we have an emerging food industry around this new food products all the way to a group at University of Colorado study a hemp waste and turning it into a graphing replacement for battery storage. There's a whole, you know, uh, a whole scientific arena around this. This displacement of graphene will make some really cheap energy storage from hemp plants. So we've got the whole range in Colorado, have that today, battery storage. So I'm going to use my hemp. The hemp waste can be turned into a to a supercar it strands in a super capacitor to hold storage. To put that in. Practice that in perspective. Well, I know where I'm going. I'm going to have to come up with another APP. I don't have a good one, but if you think of one, call me effing amazing. Amazing. Yes.

Speaker 4: And so if you, if you look at it, they've, the researchers at in, in, in New York have been able to produce this graphing replacement for about $500, a ton of product to put that in perspective. Graphing that they're using today is over a billion dollars a ton mined for this. So to give you an a give you a just a feel for what we could do for the end and driving the cost of energy storage down. Yeah. Hemp is going to be a player. Have. Have you talked and I'm not. I mean have you tried to talk to Elon Musk and tesla and [inaudible] that sounds like that's right up that alley. It is right at Belannzia las. There may be other people having discussions where they might have it yet, but all right, this is, you know, this has emerged as a conversation over the last six months, these, these findings.

Speaker 4: So we know it's, we know it's there, we know it's possible and yet just another example of things we can do with the hemp plant. So we're, we're absolutely in the, in the first inning here, if it's the past six months, we are 29 states took how long that period has been from really 2000, I'd say the legislative 2013 legislative sessions forward. So we've only had about four legislative sessions now, uh, where, where, where the state legislators have had acted the last and in the war room where you got the map up with the pins. What are we looking at, you know, the next couple of legislative sessions, how many states are we are on the table? Well, I'd say with the exception of about four. Um, and those word that doesn't appear to be really any movement right now. And those are South Dakota, Kansas, Idaho. I have to think of the fourth one.

Speaker 4: Okay. But, but, but with the exception of those, an absent the 29 that have already done, sure, there is activity in the balance of the states that will, we'll see laws proposed in, in 17. Okay. Let's talk about jobs. Okay. Alright. First off you mentioned your friends, uh, in, in cotton. So let's talk about current farmers that are receiving subsidies or not for the crops that they do grow or don't. Yeah. And with the success that they're having or not yet? Uh, what is, uh, what's the message to the current farming community? Well, I think we have a, I think it's fair to say that in the, in the. Let me back up to the 2014 farm bill please, because section seven, six, oh, six of the farm bill, which is what a is, is what really enables the states to do research and development under the Farm Bill Act.

Speaker 4: So it really became a safe harbor place for states to stick their toe in the water user land grant university to help help the movement. And so that was, that was really the first enabling legislation. Now Congress has done a really good job since then at the Omnibus Act, basically defunding dea, his ability to go in and cause trouble at a, at a state level where there is a, where there's the law has been passed and the permits are in place. So Congress has done, you know, with, with all the dysfunction that's been going on in Capitol Hill Day. They've actually been good on, on some, you know, on I'd say some foundational legislation. Excellent. Good. Uh, so if we, as we move then forward to, you know, what we're, what we're doing really what's next. We want to continue to build it at the, at the state level.

Speaker 4: But the important thing I think on the, on the, on the farming side is I think most of us would agree. I think that most of the country would agree that our farm bill has gotten upside down. Sure. You know, uh, we incentivize and subsidize the things that we don't need to, uh, we say we don't need to because they're not something that really contributes to our health and probably does more damage to the environment than it does than it doesn't. And it's growth for some of the reasons I mentioned her. So if you look at, you know, we don't, we don't subsidize the things that would be white. Why, why should, why should I eat an apple cost three times as much as a twinkie, you know, those kinds of things. Right. So, you know, I think we need a, we need a series.

Speaker 4: There's no rule that is right, that's true. But how do we do that? I mean that, that goes back to the ballot box, right? I mean, I think there's a growing awareness that things are upside down. I've gone awry and so the irony is when the industrial hemp world, we're not there, we're not even asking for subsidies or any of the things that anybody else gets. We just want the right to grow it. Yeah. Let us know there was more than enough there we, we'll figure it out. You know, this is the old Yankee ingenuity that with that, that's all in our DNA. We just wanted, we just want to do is get out of our way, but we don't, we don't want to be a part of that show. Well that's, you know, we're, we're the, we're the new emerging, you know, ideas around what 21, the 21st century agricultural system looks like.

Speaker 4: Yeah. For, for those farmers, for that agricultural community, uh, you've got some folks that are with you. Are you hearing some pushback? If so, what are they saying? And then how are you refuting, you know, that pushback. I would say that given the opportunity to have a discussion like you and I are having today with a group of farmers or group of advocates, it doesn't, I don't care whether they're on the producer side of the consumer side and you them a history of, of, of the plant, and you give them what the plant can do and why it should be a white should be legalized. Uh, you don't. I'd say we're batting a thousand. I mean, so it really goes back to how do we get this, how do we get this message out and permeate it amongst the 300 plus million people in this country and make it, make it something that's an issue that's important enough to them that they would vote and in the absence of anything else, they'd vote because somebody thinks that we need to start, we need to end this stupid laws are stupid laws. We just stop being stupid.

Speaker 5: It's a, I think, a good goal. Yeah. Uh, let's talk about additional jobs. You know, we just talked about the current agricultural community. We can turn these crops over into maybe something that is more beneficial for the environment as well as more profitable for the farmer, him or herself. What are we talking about in terms of the economy of scale, the potential for jobs and in this industry?

Speaker 4: Well, the Nice thing about it is there's a lot of consumption going on in the U. S that's relies on imported products. So there's, we can displace domestic product with that. Uh, but that, but we believe that we've just seen a little tiny sliver of the pie that's, that is available as we start permeating into other, other supply chains. So I, I'll give you an example. I know that there's a group in Colorado on the western slope looking at an opportunity to take turn to turn a, a hemp plant into textiles and rope and uh, that would, that would employ 123 people under their plan, uh, with, with about, I'd say a minimal investment given that this is 123 people that would have jobs in an area that were coal mines are being closed and the lumber mills are gone. And so it's a. So when I look at that, when I, you know, the, the, this, this opportunity, you know, that's just a, just one specific case in one region where there is somebody who believes that that could happen. And in you know, and it isn't pie in the sky stuff, there were, they're addressing markets that exist today. That the nice thing is we don't have to go out and reinvent or invent a new invent a new market.

Speaker 5: Well, and to that end, as far as the import, I don't know if you have those numbers and I'm putting you on the spot, but you know, how big is that market, you know, as far as you know, revenue or, or.

Speaker 4: Well, today it's estimated to be somewhere, but at the ars has added somewhere in the 600 to $700 million range annually right now. And that's just the import. Just the current, just the importance. What's hempcrete? So hempcrete is, is a very interesting product. A replacement for concrete. Yes, it was, it was used in the Romans used it back in the back of the day, the, and uh, but it is a, it is a, uh, is a product that is lighter than concrete, has some elastic city. So a particular areas where you'd have earthquakes, uh, would be, uh, would be uh, uh, you know, a valid, you know, building material, it absorbed it, absorb a fertile ground. Again, absorb CEO to uh, and you know, stronger, lighter. A great and a great installation. Uh, there's, there's a couple of homes being built on Maui right now that from the ground up that are, that are new there.

Speaker 4: There was a couple that have been built in Asheville, North Carolina as well. I've been in, I've been in those wonderful, you know, it's just a really nice product and it makes it very nice interior environment in the home. So there you go. There's another product that we didn't mention. Another use another F interestedly enough concrete. The concrete sector in the United States is one of it. It has its own, it, it, it cause it's like something around 10 percent of our entire greenhouse gas emissions. It's a very energy intensive industry. And so if you look at, again, if we're, if our, if our goal is from a climate perspective mitigation and, and uh, that, that one that one of the things we can do is displacement of products that are, that, that address, that and that. And hempcrete is one of those. Okay. So, and we also haven't, uh, obviously, uh, there's not a lot of research in terms of the hemp plant.

Speaker 4: And other uses, because we keep on adding apps here, even in our little conversation and who, I mean, you know, neither one of us as a scientist and you know, the problem with, with research has been that because it's a schedule one drug, now we're back into the same, you know, the federal government won't fund and state governments and, and colleges and universities who all, who all get federal dollars won't touch it because for fear of losing their federal dollars. And so it's become this self fulfilling prophecy about, you know, about, well, why isn't there if it was so good, why wouldn't we do it at, well, we would go do it because we can't. Research will wake up or research well because they will change the law. That's it, you know, so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy on that. But, but the world has, you know, there's, there's, there's, there's all kinds of, of papers and research done around the world.

Speaker 4: We just, we just as a nation have decided not to participate in that, in that a gathering of intelligence gathering of intelligence. So, you know, an environmental improvement, improving jobs. Uh, a kind of reinventing the agriculture industry. Yeah. Uh, are just, that's just a few of these things here. It is the benefit. They say there's 25,000 products can be made from the hemp plant. Okay. I don't doubt it but, but we've, I mean we've just scratched the surface. I think the, the, the, the, the most well known one of the, there's a lot of fascinating things about the story but that, but the great news is that if we were just allowed to experience and, and tests and research and play with what the, what if's, who knows what we could, you know, really what, what, what we could do with that, whether it's battery storage from a waste product, crazy. A war or a health or health and medicinal issues. It's all from one plant. Yeah. It's amazing that I could

Speaker 5: build my, uh, my house and a store. The batteries that I used to build my house and also eat.

Speaker 4: Yeah. And eat it and be healthier. Wealthier. And again, I didn't even mention them.

Speaker 5: The efs. Yeah. So this is fascinating. There's an F and a. So I'm in, I'm in, on splitting up the plant. Why not? Let's just pass what we can pass. Yeah.

Speaker 4: I mean at this point we, we know there's this delicate dance because politics is generally just the art of incrementalism and, and you know, the needle's moving one direction or the other no matter what. No matter kind of just make your issue, don't matter the subject at the federal level. It's incremental ism. So, so I think we're just going to, at this point, we, we almost have to divide, uh, because because of the way Congress works or where does, uh, does it, more importantly, does it who you got in the election? I'm just kidding. Okay. But you know, I think you can learn incrementalism part is there's a real good case for that right now. We know often that the states are the laboratories for, for what works and what doesn't. Colorado was the tip of the spear on that absolute. So we did that which was now causing all of the other state activity. It really led to the, to a valid argument. Why section seven, six, seven, six. Oh, six. With the farm bill should be enacted because we should allow these days to be able to experiment. And then the net, you know, the next step is can we schedule a, you know, the everything below point three just deschedule it and returned it back to the purview of Usta here. Uh, so I think, you know, we are practicing incrementalism by default. Yeah, right now. But we are on it. We're on a journey where we've made our.

Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely. And you've got the 29 states. When, when can we start to expect to hear more about this in the general kind of. Oh by the way, 29 states states have ham and here's the industry that's coming out of it. Yes. Okay. Colorado. But you know, Colorado's Colorado's so who cares, but like Kentucky when, when can we start hearing case studies? When do you expect to start hearing case studies of hemp grown in Kentucky and products coming out? Jobs? Yeah.

Speaker 4: I think we'll, I think we'll probably start seeing a lot of that soon because there's 2016 crop. Yeah. Was really the first year where we had some significant commercial acres. Both in Colorado and Kentucky. So harvest, we're just, we're just now just now in the harvest season, so we'll have some, will have a lot of that data. We'll have the, we'll have the story, we'll have the facts and everybody's getting geared up now to significantly grow and in 2017. Yeah. So the stories building, it's there and we really are at the doorstep on that one now. That's fine.

Speaker 5: So, uh, here we are at the doorstep. I guess what is a knowing that you know, we're going to gain more from this harvest and your next six, nine, 12 months, what did, what do those look like for you? Messaging and etc. Well, we're, we're

Speaker 4: really working right now on our efforts have been over the summer working on building a cosponsorship of the, of the two federal bills, hoping that we could get some committee hearings, you know, the slim chance. It's probably slim to none this year. That lame duck might provide some opportunities to take another step and share your opinion. So, uh, you knoW, we'll see where that goes. But we know that education is key and we know that empowering the people at the state level and, and really just magnifying their stories of what's going on. For instance, I'll be on a panel here at 2:00 today with tony to vera, who's the research grad student at cal poly pomona who is now managing the only industrial hemp test plot in the state of California. Great young kid. Uh, you know, so. So we'll, we'll, we'll help tony build his story. Yeah. Because until you have so many people, until you have something that's real, something they can look at, something can drag a politician and say, here, this is what it looks like. Look at this, look at this, touch it, feel it. Yeah. Um, then it, then it becomes real and then they can, they can start acting. And that's, that's been the case. Certainly there's a case in Colorado, it's the case in any other state. It supports being grown. So, you know, the, the, the value of, of even tiny projects can't be undersold.

Speaker 5: Absolutely. Yeah. All right, so I'm going to come over. I'm going to a watch that panel. I'm excited, which would lead us to the final three questions are going to tell you what they are and then I'll ask you them. Okay. All right. Uh, what has most surprised you in cannabis and for you, we'll add him. What has most surprised you in life and that one you can still answer. And then the third question on the soundtrack of michael bowman's life, a named one track, one song that's got to be on there. So we like to end like that. But first things first, what has most surprised you in cannabis or hemp oil?

Speaker 4: Well, I think for me, the fact that we're, you and I are even having this discussion every day. I mean I started my personal journey on this in 1999 in a tent in Zimbabwe with a couple from Australia who had just came from India where they were in the, in that transition of going from hemp to gmo cotton and all the things that are happening in that transition that haven't been terribly pretty right. And so I got interested first office of a over social justice. Okay. You know, it's like, this is, again, this is the early stages of, of our, our, our big ag corpse, you know, exerted their influence around the world, but there was some real detrimental social ills that were being caused by because of that direct because of, because of that directly. So my interest started there and then as soon as I started understanding about the plant and its history and what it could do, then I have been, for me, it became a personal journey to see it brought back and legalized.

Speaker 4: So it took, it really, it wasn't until 2006 when I started being a real advocate at a state level and then it was, you know, from six to 12 where we did a lot of education, right to our, to our legislators, you know, bar association, law enforcement, all of that. We did all the groundwork to, to, to introduce everybody to it before we started that and acting bills. Uh, so there was, there would have been a one point in time not that long ago, let's say 2000, 10, 11 even pre, pre, pre amendment 64. That, I just hope I live long enough to see some research plots, you know, grown. Yeah. So here we are today, you know, in, in, in 2016, uh, you know, literally looking at this, the, the reintroduction of this crop and, and how it was all rooted in large part from the industrial hemp side in Colorado.

Speaker 4: Well, and for, for even for the, for the whole cannabis plant. Yeah. Colorado, you know, we took the, took the risk and now you're reaping the reward. We are, we are. Yeah. Well, what were you doing in Zimbabwe in 1999? Michael? I do a lot of work with a savory institute on holistic management on a healthy soils is always. I grew up on a ranch, a healthy soils and conservation has always been important to me. And allan savory has a really a great program where they use integrated grazing animals in the, in the equation to rebuild soils. I mean, so you know what you're talking about here. This is the right guy. I try, I try. We got the right guy on the case here. What has most surprised you in life?

Speaker 4: Uh, this, I, I think the status of where we are as a divided country today, how divided we are. Sucks, doesn't it? It really does. You know, we're better than this. We are totally better. We're better than this and it does surprise me that we have allowed ourselves to get to this point. I was born in 1975 and I know that we haven't been on the same page the whole time, but I do remember us liking each other more. We could have civil discussions, you know, the, the, the era of civil debate is gone. Yeah. I think we'll reclaim it. I guess you always ended the chaos theory, you know, this is, I hope this is, I hope this is the chaos theory playing out, but uh, the bit that has surprised me, you know, I came from a, you know, from a very conservative part of the state and the country yet I didn't grow up in this, in these kinds of worlds where you couldn't talk to your neighbors can even tell you.

Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. And I've been an anomaly as I've gotten more progressive as I've gotten older, but, but still, you know, these having these discussions, uh, not having to not have it and more importantly not having them today is what's really sad. I'm with you. I'm with you on that one. One of my favorite answers. Yeah. Uh, and then finally on the soundtrack of your life named one track, one song that's gotta be on there. Oh, it's got to be katrina and the waves and walking on sunshine law. That is a very positive song. I know. I mean, you won't be able to get through the day now with the, with the right in the beginning with the. And then you got to put it on if you don't know that song, but it's ridiculously happy it. But I would say it is, it's like it's a, it's a happy Michael Bowman.

Speaker 1: Thank you so much that it's been a pleasure. And there you have Michael Bowman. So, uh, just a tip of the cap to jack career. It's obvious that his name should come up at some point in this episode. I'll be late. Thanks to Michael Bowman once again, thanks to bethany more once again. Again, a pagan for halloween. You can't get any better than that. Thank you for listening.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.