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Ep.208: Tim Cullen, Colorado Harvest Company & David Brown, Lift

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.208: Tim Cullen, Colorado Harvest Company & David Brown, Lift

Ep.208: Tim Cullen, Colorado Harvest Company & David Brown, Lift

Tim Cullen joins us and takes us through the very early days in Colorado leading up to today. He candidly discusses the banking and taxation issues that persist for cannabis producers, processors and retailers. But David Brown of Lift first joins us to discuss the Task Force recommendations to the Canadian government for a federally regulated adult use cannabis economy. The recommendations soundly showcased that it’s a question of how not if. The Task Force recommends home grow, retail, consumption, limiting prosecutions and allowing for true and unencumbered capitalism with craft cannabis companies producing along side large scale players.

Transcript:

Speaker 1: Tim Cullen and David Brown, Tim Culen joins us and takes us through the very early days in Colorado leading up to today. He candidly discusses the banking and taxation issues that persist for cannabis producers, processors, and retailers, but David Brown of lyft first joins us to discuss the task force recommendations to the Canadian government for a federally regulated adult use cannabis economy. The recommendation soundly showcase that it's a question of how not if the task force recommends homegrown retail consumption, limiting prosecutions and allowing for true and unencumbered capitalism with craft cannabis companies producing alongside large scale players. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handle can economy. That's two ends. And the word economy. Tim Coleman proceeded by David Brown. So, uh,

Speaker 2: David Brown, international sensation. David Brown. Yes. Thank you. So you got an, a question there. Uh, the task force recommendations just came out. Uh, you got a question in during the press conference. Let's start with the end because that was a really kind of how it ended. Um, you know, talk about your question and then let's talk about the fact that we got pretty much every single recommendation that we could have hoped for.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, my question was, uh, you know, in the report they mentioned that they had visited many compassion clubs. Dispensary is in Canada and they specifically named the British Columbia Compassion Club society, which is the oldest compassion club in. I asked a hand McClellan the chair of the taskforce to speak about her experience visiting those places and she talked about a rather life changing experience she had as a PCC, uh, which I think, you know, it was really nice to hear that because I think there's a lot of people who are concerned about this idea that legalization is going to wipe out, um, you know, the existing players. Uh, and she talked about her experience there a, despite it not being federally illegal and it working its way through the city licensing process. I think it really highlights how this is a task force that really looked at the evidence. They didn't come in with an agenda like previous government might had done and they were willing to, you know, have their minds changed about a lot of things.

Speaker 2: Was remarkable. Hearing her name, check a bccs. I mean we've been talking about this for years. The importance of um, you know, the, the storefront, the retail experience for, for the patient and for it to come out, uh, you know, not only in their recommendations, they recommended a retail, they recommended provincial oversight of that retail. So if your province doesn't want it, that's fine. Talk to them and then she just a really, you know, to, to, to give that human kind of peel a was just remarkable. That goes along with home grow four plants. It goes along with all of these recommendations that we could not have imagined. You know, what, what, what surprised you most from the recommendations

Speaker 3: during the press conference? One of the things that made me the happiest, there's two points that I think Mcclellan handled really well. One, there was some questions about drunk driving and there's been a lot of concern about, you know, we don't have the tools in place yet to deal with drunk driving and she pointed out as, as Dr were pointed out, um, you know, drunk driving is not created by legalization already here. If something already existing a and, and while, you know, there are tools needed, I think that really highlights that. No, it's a bit of a red herring to say, uh, that legalization is going to create this massive issue. There are already people out there driving stone there already people out there driving on painkillers. And so this idea that we're going to see a massive increase in that I think is a bit absurd.

Speaker 1: Tim Cullen and David Brown, Tim Culen joins us and takes us through the very early days in Colorado leading up to today. He candidly discusses the banking and taxation issues that persist for cannabis producers, processors, and retailers, but David Brown of lyft first joins us to discuss the task force recommendations to the Canadian government for a federally regulated adult use cannabis economy. The recommendation soundly showcase that it's a question of how not if the task force recommends homegrown retail consumption, limiting prosecutions and allowing for true and unencumbered capitalism with craft cannabis companies producing alongside large scale players. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handle can economy. That's two ends. And the word economy. Tim Coleman proceeded by David Brown. So, uh,

Speaker 2: David Brown, international sensation. David Brown. Yes. Thank you. So you got an, a question there. Uh, the task force recommendations just came out. Uh, you got a question in during the press conference. Let's start with the end because that was a really kind of how it ended. Um, you know, talk about your question and then let's talk about the fact that we got pretty much every single recommendation that we could have hoped for.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, my question was, uh, you know, in the report they mentioned that they had visited many compassion clubs. Dispensary is in Canada and they specifically named the British Columbia Compassion Club society, which is the oldest compassion club in. I asked a hand McClellan the chair of the taskforce to speak about her experience visiting those places and she talked about a rather life changing experience she had as a PCC, uh, which I think, you know, it was really nice to hear that because I think there's a lot of people who are concerned about this idea that legalization is going to wipe out, um, you know, the existing players. Uh, and she talked about her experience there a, despite it not being federally illegal and it working its way through the city licensing process. I think it really highlights how this is a task force that really looked at the evidence. They didn't come in with an agenda like previous government might had done and they were willing to, you know, have their minds changed about a lot of things.

Speaker 2: Was remarkable. Hearing her name, check a bccs. I mean we've been talking about this for years. The importance of um, you know, the, the storefront, the retail experience for, for the patient and for it to come out, uh, you know, not only in their recommendations, they recommended a retail, they recommended provincial oversight of that retail. So if your province doesn't want it, that's fine. Talk to them and then she just a really, you know, to, to, to give that human kind of peel a was just remarkable. That goes along with home grow four plants. It goes along with all of these recommendations that we could not have imagined. You know, what, what, what surprised you most from the recommendations

Speaker 3: during the press conference? One of the things that made me the happiest, there's two points that I think Mcclellan handled really well. One, there was some questions about drunk driving and there's been a lot of concern about, you know, we don't have the tools in place yet to deal with drunk driving and she pointed out as, as Dr were pointed out, um, you know, drunk driving is not created by legalization already here. If something already existing a and, and while, you know, there are tools needed, I think that really highlights that. No, it's a bit of a red herring to say, uh, that legalization is going to create this massive issue. There are already people out there driving stone there already people out there driving on painkillers. And so this idea that we're going to see a massive increase in that I think is a bit absurd.

Speaker 3: So it was great to hear her say that and it was also really great. There was two questions where reporter asked 'em a question based around the idea of the corporations will dominate legalization. And it was really great to have her point out that that's a false dichotomy from the beginning. Um, there are already numerous, very small scale mom and pop licensed producers. Uh, there are probably more small ones in, there are big ones and they continue to licensed producers. And so I think that that was, it was really nice. See that directly addressed this idea that um, you know, the only people being licensed or these big corporations with no ties. The existing industry is just not true. There are tons of small producers who are licensed who used to grow under the old regime. It's not this, it's not just all government cronies who was nice to see that

Speaker 2: she also, you know, the recommendation is to continue with that diverse set of producers, make sure to have, you know, producers big and small for the market because that is what the market should be.

Speaker 3: Indeed. And she and the report specifically mentions craft producers, which I think is enormous now. People have really been lobbying around the idea of craft of being a placeholder for people who have been operating in the industry for a long time, unregulated. That adhering to good practices. I'm producing things, high quality on a small scale and it. And it really emphasizes the need to transition some of those players. And so I think I really know some of the concerns that I think we're maybe a bit more fearful than necessary was that the government is looking to, you know, wipe out all of that in it. Again, it's going to be this corporate legalization and I think they put in into writing, um, the need to really allow some of the good operators to transition and the need for small, um, small operators all across Canada to be able to have a plague in the market.

Speaker 3: And we need to really ramp up approved producer. We've got 36 right now in Canada. We need, you know, probably well over a 100, uh, in the next 18 months or so if legalization is going to succeed. So, you know, it called for more resources for Health Canada, more inspectors. And these are all the things that if you follow the industry, these are all the little pieces that are really holding things up. And Health Canada is underfunded, understaffed, and a lot of this ticket was started under a conservative government with a very, very different approach. And so, you know, it's, it's sort of the analogy of turning around the aircraft carrier, it takes a long time and you're dealing with, you know, on the fly, you're trying to transition approach can program into a working program, uh, without interrupting any service in the meantime. So I think it's incredible and this really highlights how the liberal government really is taking an evidence based public health approach to legalization and not starting at an ideology and then reverse engineering from there.

Speaker 2: It's so interesting, the dichotomy between the US and Canada, you know, you're going from conservative to liberal. We're going from liberal to conservative. Um, and we've got, you know, questions of our own. None of them have to do with a federal, uh, adult use program. Um, you know, having said that, you know, from your perspective, what are the chances that this, you know, kind of falls down. I say that with the understanding that you and I are standing next to each other. When Dr Mark, where I'm at, the lift expo said it's a question of when, not if a or how not. If so, you know, what, what are the, what are the potential hurdles in the way of this, uh, actually succeeding, if any?

Speaker 3: Nothing substantial. I don't think anything is turning back this wave. Um, and I think that counts in the US. I think that there are good arguments to be made that prompt is not popular enough to really turn back to the wave in the United States either in the liberal government tried to decriminalize, uh, I want to say 2001 and there was big push back from the US. I don't think that we'll see this again. I think that this is a global way and Canada is the first country. I'm really, really doing it right. The first large scale g seven nation, taking this from a top down approach, uh, I think it's going to take many years. Uh, there's some people saying, you know, maybe even 2019 before we even see retail sales. So, you know, it's not going to happen overnight, but I think that that actually encourages its sustainability.

Speaker 3: I think that, that, you know, as the government works to make sure that everyone, it was a stakeholder even at the global level dealing with these UN, uh, inventions that have inside, um, I think that will ensure that those hurdles don't come up, but I think that, you know, we'll see. We'll continue to see things like provinces saying, hey, we need more time. We're already seeing that we're seeing law enforcement and, you know, really trying to make a big deal about drunk driving and they have a lot of political sway. I think it's gonna take many years.

Speaker 2: Okay. So you know, folks that see this as a potential thing, you're not necessarily one of them, you're, you're looking at 20, 19 type of thing.

Speaker 3: I'm still sticking to January 2018. That's been my prediction. Yeah. But I'm starting to hear more people say, you know, realistically we could be well into 2019 before we see retail sales and looking at some of the concerns from the provinces and the territories right now. Some people saying, um, you know, we need a month or years to do this.

Speaker 2: Which one? Who's dragging their feet?

Speaker 3: Oh, there was a, a minister of justice from one of the territories, um, who had a quote in the immune about a month ago. They're from some feedback from him, from a department ministers of justice and meeting a couple months ago was that, that was what all of the ministers of justice from across the country were saying was we need yours. Uh, and then there was a premier from Manitoba. He other day basically said the same thing, which is kind of funny because for a while now the line has been we need the federal government to hurry up and tell us what's going on. And now they're like, oh whoa, now hold up. Now we need time.

Speaker 2: Wait a second. If these are going to be the recommendations, we're going to need more time.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Easily. We could see something where, you know, some provinces perhaps implement a system, uh, in some provinces take longer. It might be better to take longer. I'm a province like DC who has a lot of embedded growers wanting to transition. It might be better to take a law a long time to ensure that they have a time to transition. Do you have a province like Ontario? It's really itching to handover a distribution to the existing liquor lobby, the Lcpo that can happen very fast, but that might not really be positive.

Speaker 2: Well, so here we are. I cannot believe the number of recommendations from home grow all the way to retail. Um, uh, that they just came out with. Um, David, congratulations on your, uh, question. Uh, not only being asked but, but actually answered.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I was very happy she stumbled a bit. So I was very happy when she gave the candid answer and I think it shows specifically has made comments in the distant past very negative kind of typical prohibition comments up cannabis. And so I think in that context, the fact that she visited the oldest compassion club in Canada, one of the oldest in North America built around, uh, you know, the models is established in the bay area in the nineties. Um, no, she went there and she had a transformational experience. And I think that that right there highlights the kind of transition that we're going through. This isn't a, this isn't about making a small subculture from prohibition legitimate. This is about bringing cannabis into the mainstream, convincing people that didn't use to be convinced, showing them that this is a legitimate medicine and that a lot of fears around recreational or not really founded.

Speaker 2: Amen. As goes, Canada so goes the entire world. David, thank you so much. As always, and I'm sure I'll see you soon. Somewhere

Speaker 1: writing insecurity in the cannabis industry since 2009, Kenna Security America has become one of the largest total solution security companies in the US with new management, new leadership, and new ownership. CSA provides everything from systems and monitoring to armor, transportation for movement of cash as well as security arm guards. The three essential elements of security for any cannabis business. CSA provides the highest level of quality service in Colorado, Oregon, Arizona, California, Washington, and Nevada. Go to Canada. Security.com/can economy for more information. I've rushed to start is because I want to start there. You're, you're a musician. Oh, I dabble. I dabble, you know, how to play, do you know how to play a guitar? I can hold my own and I really enjoy

Speaker 4: it. Um, influences such as. Oh, I, I a lot of grateful dead. Um, recently some Bobby Dylan. Sure. I'm also all sorts of. Anything that can be plucked away on an acoustic guitar I'm open to. And then where are you as far as grateful dead? Because there's a quite a catalog though. It is, it is. I'm playing like a rhythm guitar so I'm not, I'm not, I'm not in the 72. Jerry jams to, into the set a more. You could get the gist of the song from me playing along with it and got it. You will shake it sugary. I will. I will shake that sugary. It's funny how it started because I um, I got involved with it mostly because I have this weird knack of being able to hear a song and know all the words to it and wow, that's a, that's a good knack I guess.

Speaker 4: So sort of, but I wasn't sure what to do with it and I thought, well, playing a guitar along with these words should certainly elevate that. So I, I, so now now I have some accompaniment to my random collection of bizarre songs that I know all the words to, to you, seeing you play guitar and then you say piano. I, I do have a keyboard. I, I'm, I'm much further along with the guitar. I used the piano to interface with the guitar band to be able to add new instruments in, but I'm not a great keyboard player but on it means. But there's a couple of folks in my neighborhood and we all get together and we have a little impromptu jam sessions. And that's fun. I really enjoyed. I really enjoyed playing. Music is so different than listening to music that um, how so?

Speaker 4: Because I don't play music so I don't know. It's, it's a, it's like talking only. You're talking with your music. If you start to play faster, you'd push everyone that direction. If you play slower, they have to slow down with you. You have to give each other breaks and pauses and, and let the drummer has his solo and it is a whole way of communicating with sound that's not speaking and it's sort of a magical kind of a vibe that just makes you feel good. It's awesome. I, I love it at it. You make me want to learn an instrument. I think everyone should jump in there. And then what are you playing? Are you back to that grateful dead Bob Dylan type stuff? Playing with the guys for sure. For sure. Well, you know, the drummer has to go along with whatever voted guitar players can play because he can beat the drums to anything and so it sort of goes like that for the basis to also sort of whatever the guitar player dictates the setlist.

Speaker 4: So whenever I work on I share it with them and then replay and it's. So what you're saying is you, you know, for, for those of us that see, you know, guitarists, something like a Jimmy page or something that, you know, we think that that's all flash and you followed the style. No, that's not the point. You just follow what he can do because that's all he can do. Oh, and that guy is on an entirely different level. I am a, I am not Jimmy paging it out there, but the amazing we were able to rise up to Jimmy page and you've rise up to whatever the threshold of your guitars is. Exactly. Your band is no better than your guitarist, that's for sure. And um, I mean the, to take it to that kind of level is just out of hand out of hand.

Speaker 4: Like I don't, I don't know where the top is for me. I see lots of personal growth in the guitar in my future. I don't know where it, Jimmy page goes with what he's doing is he's a master a master. Right. How to maybe one day I'll get there. I don't think I'll live long enough. Fair enough. It's good to hear that you do feel like you've got a, you know, a pathway. It's also good to hear that, um, you know, that you have day job. Tim Collins. I do have a day job. It's amazing how my day job has changed without, without purposely seeing that Colorado harvest company just had its seven year anniversary. The anniversary. Thank you. Thank you. It was great. But I'm taking the time to speak here in Las Vegas meant I had to take some time to reflect on 2009 and talk about some of the changes that we've seen through this process.

Speaker 4: And obviously when we started I was the only employee if there was a bucket of plant medium moving from one side to the other. That was me doing moving the bucket and the bucket. I was doing the watering. I was, I put the texture on the walls and painted and um, I mean it was everything was me and to be at a point now where I'm in Las Vegas, I was able to have two days and I have tomorrow. All the stores are open. I'm not there. That in itself is a sense of accomplishment to be able to get it to a point that I can walk away and everything still works. Everything's still working. So how many stores does it now? So we have two locations in Denver and we have two locations out in Aurora, one of those Aurora locations. We'll open this spring. So we're sitting at three open with one more to go and you have somewhat of a relationship with open vape.

Speaker 4: Right. I'm like, I'm one of the founding partners of it. So yeah. How does that all go on whatever relationship, you know, it goes a lot like owning two companies that we really try to keep separate, open vape offices in different locations. We, um, we have different holiday parties. We, uh, we face different challenges. Um, my business partner, Ralph Morgan and I are still partners in everything, but we had to divide and conquer for a little while. We Ran Colorado Harvest Company and open vape together and we were both doing a poor job at both. Ralph and I are great partners. We can just go sit down and have lunch and talk about anything. He really is an amazing business partner like that. And we sat down and I said, man, I'm dying. He said, I'm dying to. And I said, what are we doing? I said, which one do you want when you want to do?

Speaker 4: And he said, I'm in love with the oil, it's what I want to see through, it's my dream. And I said, then stop showing up for work at Colorado Harvest Company. I want to see anymore. I have it from here. And he did. And so he is the CEO down at open vape and I'm the CEO of at Colorado Harvest Company. And we talk every day mostly just to trade war stories and double check in on each other. But I'm dividing and conquering was the right decision in that case because open vape, open vape is a rock star with a number one hit single that is going nationwide and there's no slow in that train down. And um, you just can't do both of them,

Speaker 5: right? You can't do both. And you did mention, uh, you know, growth and, and we're, uh, you know, where you're going with that. I want to kind of get to where you realized that open vape was a thing that you should do. Um, you know, you, you, you have, you have the, the, uh, the, the first dispensary we've spoken to others about 2009. I'll probably, we'll probably get to that with you as well. And you know, uh, January first 2014, we'll probably get to that as well. But we're along the path. Did you say, you know, here's something else that we can do that we should do that we're going to do that we need to do right now.

Speaker 4: Right. So we saw that market coming long before open vape is a matter of fact per previous to open vape, even existing, um, we launched three different pen lines. None of them stuck to the wall. All of them failed. And it was, it was, it took time for this meeting of the technology involved with electronic cigarettes to, to match up with the extraction technology and actually be able to put a pen out that worked. People were excited and would buy them and then they'd be back the next day because the thing didn't work.

Speaker 5: Give us a, I know what you're talking about as far as the science just not catching up. But, so what were the initial pens? What were the issues there?

Speaker 4: Oh, they're how we ran. We ran a bunch of, a part of the issues. We're just having, um, having manufacturers that would stand behind their warranty. Almost all electronic cigarettes and pens are made in China and once they arrive to you, they really are yours working or not testing or not. They're, they really are yours and the company wouldn't stand behind it. And it was, it was very hard to not honor some type of warranty. When you've sold something that doesn't work, you're going to lose that person forever if you don't make it right for them. So, um, so we really, we've vacillated on whether or not to launch launch open vape because we'd, we'd tried before and it just didn't seem to work. We brought in some new partners who had some new fresh ideas. They were really savvy with the marketing side of it.

Speaker 4: And that seems to be what, what really made it open vape, stick to the wall. So we found ourselves in this position where we had a product that we couldn't make it fast enough to get out onto the shelves. We were there always this bottleneck of the actual physical extraction to get it into the pens and then we started to get contacted by different groups outside of the state that wanted licensing agreements. And that's a much harder thing to do than people realize it's very for love him or Hayden. But Mcdonald's is amazing that they can make a hamburger that tastes just like a big Mac on either side of the country and anywhere around the world. Right? And if you're trying to replicate that process, it's very, very difficult. And at the same time protecting your brand and making sure people are doing the right things with it.

Speaker 4: You don't, you can't just hand your baby to someone in another state and hope they do a good job with it. So it took a long time to stabilize that process. But at this point and open vape has moved into 13 different states. We have eight different countries working with cbd products, um, and otherwise and otherwise, of course, right, and we're, we're, we're, we're moving forward. It is, it is. My hope and dream that opened. Vape becomes one of the first national brands just like Jim beam or Jack Daniels, that whether people use it or not, that they know what open vape is inside the industry. It seems like it already is. What, what would be missing from, from your point of view? Oh, I think just just the map changing more and more states adding on the ability to move forward were, um, were politically active in the areas that we operate in, in terms of working towards fair rules and regulations, but we're not proactive in terms of, um, states that don't allow for medical marijuana.

Speaker 4: You will not see open vape there. We're not pushing an agenda when a state opens up, we'll move into it. And so the more and more states that do that allow for more and more expansion. And just to go back to the science and you know, where it actually kind of all came together. You mentioned partners and you mentioned a suppliers, but as far as you know, making it go and actually coming together, what was the kind of the epiphany that the moment of all we have it. Oh, these pens that came before it. Not so much. This one right now. I'm still waiting for that feeling and it's always been. It's always been a challenge. There's always something new and there's always a shiny object to chase out there. Um, I think, I think where we nailed it was we decided we're an oil company, not a vaporizer company and the vaporizer as a vehicle to sell oil.

Speaker 4: And so we took a play right out of the Gillette Razor model and we said if you buy two of the cartridges you can have the battery for free and we must have given away more than 100,000 batteries that got the product out onto the market and let people be able to check it out. And now they own the pen and they're coming back for the cartridge refills. And that is when it really took off, when we decided to stop reinventing the wheel and do something that it was a successful marketing strategy from another industry and home run. There you go. All right. So then now let's go back with you. Right. Are you from Colorado? I am a born and bred, you know, I was actually born in New Mexico, which I'm not, I'm not ashamed of it, but my parents only lived there for about three months and then I was raised in Colorado.

Speaker 4: So technically my passport says I had to learn how to spell albuquerque because it's occasionally I have to write it. Um, so yeah, I was raised in Colorado but I'm not a native. Got It. And where were in Colorado? In Denver. So you're, I mean this is very rare that we have somebody right now. I grew up, I grew up right here. So watching this whole thing happened has just been amazing to watch it unfold, to watch the changes in the community. Give us a sense of Colorado in Denver. I'm in the seventies, you know, the late seventies, early eighties. So one of my favorite Colorado memories of the late seventies, which I am 44, so I have a couple memories, seventies. Um, I got to see a John Denver concert at Denver at red rocks in 1979 and get this, the woman sitting next to me had a boat, a bag full of wine.

Speaker 4: I mean it was so 19 seventies and in hindsight is just the best red rocks experience to call your first concert. John Denver at red rocks is a, is a solid one. Absolutely. All right. So that's you as a little kid with a, you know, a little bit of entertainment, but you know, what was day to day life because the city of Denver, what I'm getting at is the city town completely changed absolutely in 25 years. So, so back then. Sure. Oh yeah. Low was a place you did not go. There were, it was a warehouse district. Um, there were still sporting venues like mile high and mcnichols were around. Denver has always been able to hold this sort of special geographical location where it's not exactly in the middle of the country, but if you're a touring band and you're gonna stop in the middle, it's Denver that you're stopping at and then your next stop is here and so Las Vegas, Denver, Denver, even back then got a lot of shows, but it was, it was small town.

Speaker 4: There was not great restaurants, there was no performing art center. We didn't get any broadway, anything rolling through town and Denver is just absolutely grown up and I mean the good and the bad. The, the traffic issues like the homeless issues, the pan handling, the overcrowded can't find an apartment issues. Denver has real big city issues now. That wasn't the case when I was growing up. It's amazing. Do. Where'd you go to school? Did you go in Colorado? Yeah. Yeah, I graduated. I graduated from rangeview high school out in Aurora and then I think I've been to almost every school in Colorado. My undergrad is from Colorado State University. I have a teaching license from Fort Lewis in Durango and then I have a masters from UNC before we get to the master's license. This teaching license. What's that about? Well, I come. I come from a family of educators.

Speaker 4: My father is a retired principal and my mom's a retired teacher. My wife spent 13 years in education. It just seemed really natural. It was sort of. It wasn't a deep desire for. It wasn't like I felt like education is my thing. What really happened to me as I. I graduated with this degree in biology and I really wanted to go be a mountaineering guide and a climbing guide and moved down to Durango and took a job doing that. And then my student loans came due and I went, Oh man, I'm going to make money. I'm going to have to figure something out and it's not screwing around on the side of these rocks. And I thought, well, I'll go back to school. So I went back to school at Fort Lewis and I was able to defer those loans for a couple more years by getting the teaching license.

Speaker 4: But then I found it, it really is something I really enjoy it. I really loved the interaction with the, like that age group is so much high school, high school teaching, high school teaching high school biology. Right. And I, I loved interacting with that age group. It took about 10 years for me to get to a point where the mytosis lecture was no longer exciting to me. It is my Tosas, it's kind of a grind. No one cares about it except me in the room and they are all going to get tested on it and that's how it's going to be. And I just got to a point where I felt like the energy that I had and what I wanted to put forward was not going to be rewarded in the education field. And so I made a really drastic, drastic change. I, um, I started looking for warehouses and I found one, I, um, we negotiated a lease and then that summer I got to go to Australia with my wife.

Speaker 4: And this was before we had children. We rented a camper van and we were traveling up the east coast, the Gold Coast in Australia, camping in a camper van resorts and I woke up in the middle of the night, sort of having as close as I've ever been to like a panic attack and I kind of got up and I sat at the kitchen table and my wife woke up and she said, what are you doing? I said, I'm just trying to figure out what life is gonna look like next year I'm going to come back from this trip. My original plan was don't quit the teaching job. This marijuana thing is so unsure. Like the warehouse was for cannabis. You're right. The warehouses for cannabis. And I'm going to leave you at the table and the camera for a second because I want to come back to the realization of getting a warehouse and getting a lease.

Speaker 4: Sure. So what year was that? A. So 2009. Okay. So was 2009 and so there was a little bit of direction from the federal government in that we are not going to. Oh No, no. This was before October? Yeah, before the Ogden memo. What I saw was a lot of stores starting to pop up hanging signs. They were, they were open for business. They weren't hiding on the back page of the westward. They were, they were doing business. So I started to go in and check them out. And what I noticed is that almost everyone in the store is someone wearing a backpack selling wares. I thought how crazy that all these stores are set up and no one's set up a commercial growing operation where they contract out for their product and there's certainly a market for that. There's no way that this industry is going to take off with people.

Speaker 4: Right. So that's, that was the beginning of Colorado Harvest Company and desire to start that company was based just on what I observed on federal and Broadway. But a, you're a teacher's kid, principles kids. Right. So, um, where does this cannabis thing come from? I understand it. It sounds like we found an entrepreneur in this teacher. Oh yeah. But you know, how were you someone that was okay in the cannabis space, which wasn't. It was the marijuana space. Absolutely. You know, how did you find it? So it was um, it was in 2002, my father was diagnosed with Crohn's disease and he went and got a medical marijuana card and I talked to him a little bit about it at that time, but he's a Vietnam veteran. He grew up in the sixties. He's been around marijuana and it wasn't a big surprise to me that he got a medical marijuana card and he said it was helping them in Soviet and then that is it as a patient with cannabis as medicine, that's your way in.

Speaker 4: And so two years later I found out that I had it also unlikely Crohn's crones and got it. My best friend has crohn's as well from him. For me it's not a life changing event. I have to take two pills a day and as long as I take those two pills, I don't have any issues. And so thank goodness because that's one of those things that if you google it when you come home from the doctor's office, it's not good. No. Um, so mine is very well under control, but at that point I talked to him a lot more about it and he said, yeah, the medical marijuana is really helping me. I really liked these edibles and da Da da Da da. So I looked into it a little more and I went and got my card and that's when I realized this lets you grow plants and also inside told him you can sign me up is your caregiver.

Speaker 4: And I pushed some boxes out of my basement and he signed me up as a caregiver and I hung up a couple of lights and I started some plants and I thought. And my first crop died of spider mites. I, I had no idea what they were until a buddy of mine came over and was like, Oh man, you're starting over again. This is all dead now. But now you know what a spider mite looks like. So learn that in the future. So I was really impressed. Not so much with the quality of the products I was growing at that time, but with the biology background and this sort of tinkering mine that I have playing around with different soils, substrates, lighting, pesticides, environmental controls, nutrient blends, and I started playing with this little laboratory that I had at the time and over the course of the next few years I got really good at it, but what's crazy looking back at it is that that gave me the confidence to quit my job.

Speaker 4: Lisa warehouse say I'm doing this because I had a couple of lights in my basement. I still turn around and go. That was both. Well, yeah, that's retrospect. You're a little bit older now than you were then so that you know, we take all those points. Absolutely. So now we're back in Australia. We're in the camp where we're at the table in a panic attack and she says what's wrong? And I say, I cannot imagine what my life is going to be like when we get home. I'm going to get up at 5:30 and I'm going to go to work. High school starts early. So you're out early, I could probably be back at the warehouse about 3:00 and then I can work at that until 9:30 or 10:00 and then go home and go to bed and I was just like, I'm not sure, not sure I can do this like that.

Speaker 4: And with her support and her idea, she said quit put your teaching license on hold, step away and jump into this and see if it works. And one part about teaching science is that you can always get a job teaching science. There's just not enough of them out there. And in Colorado supply and demand client demand you can get your job back if you want it. You have to physically take your teaching license to the Department of Education. So I drove down, it's off of Colfax and I had to physically hand it to them and so it's still sitting down. They're frozen in time so I dropped out. Why do you have to hand it in? I don't know. I guess they don't want you using rope teaching or something. I Dunno. Whatever. They must have had an issue. I didn't ask them, but I handed it to him.

Speaker 4: I went and signed the lease on the building. Yeah. I had my letter of resignation in the car. Once I signed the lease, I drove over to the school and I was a little awkward too because in the summertime there's almost no one at the school. The principal wasn't there who I'd worked for for years. So I talked to his secretary and said, Tracy, I'm really sorry but I'm, I have to let someone know that I'm not coming back. I'm resigning. And um, so I resigned and then I drove over to golden and I took my parents out for lunch and they just thought we were meeting for lunch in the summertime and here I tell him I dropped my teaching license off. I've leased a warehouse, I quit my job and I did that all in the last couple of hours and now I'm going to start growing all this marijuana.

Speaker 4: And they were like, oh my God, kid would have you done more concerned for my safety and everything and everything really at that point. Um, then he's gone mad. Yeah, they knew I hadn't gone mad, but they were like, how is he, where did you come up with this crazy idea? Why? So I said, you know, this is my, I have a backstop if this all doesn't work, the least isn't that long. Um, I'm using the license still down, down, down, down there. I'm using my own money that I cashed in my retirement from teaching to be able to buy this. I'm not in debt. If this whole thing goes sideways, I'll be back in the classroom next year. And they said, just be careful. So careful. And so, um, that is, that is where it all started. And I started with production and then house bill 1284 passed and that meant I had to open up retail and that's how Ralph Morgan and I came together. He had a big retail and I had a big grow and we had to get married. So we did and it turned out that we're great partners together and we make a lot of good decisions and we're still good friends and, and seven years down the road it's still beautiful.

Speaker 5: It's beautiful. I know we again, so we just did work our way through 12, 84 and I could do a January first 2014 because that's a special day, but I haven't spoken too much to folks about the kind of the real old days of I have all this cash and now I have to put all this cash in my car and find a bank somehow. Some way. We've talked around it a lot. Can you talk directly to that? What it was like? Oh

Speaker 4: sure. About. We held to have the first 12 licenses in in Denver for recreational sales, so January one, 2014 was a day I will never forget. It was absolutely incredible, but as a result of that, we were able to process credit cards on January first of 2014. By January third of 2014, they were waiting on to us. Yeah, they cut that off and that started. That started this process of accumulating cash. I never once put it in my car and I was terrified. I'd never want anyone to think that I have the, a bunch of cash at my house and coming, coming to find me, we locked it in safes and we hired our security guards to stay overnight and they would literally sit in front of a safe with a gun waiting for someone to steal it and oh, it's just such an unsettling feeling.

Speaker 4: Um, it sounds like a great reality show. Like here's millions of dollars in cash and you can't put it anywhere and you have to guard it and data. It's a nightmare though. It is really a nightmare. Wasn't, it? Wasn't fun. It wasn't enjoyable. It was. It made business really difficult. You've, we've physically got to a point where we could not run the business in cash. You could not want a person full time going out. Getting money orders from grocery stores does. Still was not enough. We couldn't, we couldn't get enough money. Orders to pay all the bills. Were trying to make payroll for 80 people in cash would take my bookkeeper all day long. And that's when partner Federal Credit Union and Colorado Bank and trust champion bank, a handful of small local banks started to come onto the scene and we grabbed onto them really quickly. The, um, we had, we had 14 bank accounts closed before we finally got in with a bank that recognize where a marijuana company and would work with us as such without everything transfers

Speaker 5: parent and that, those bank accounts closing and opening and closing, opening and closing, opening and closing it. Take us through that because now we're far enough away from it. And, and banking relationships, all I'll be at not out loud are there, you know. So, so talk about that, you know, it's, it's

Speaker 4: just the most uncomfortable feeling because you know, when you get that letter that's a single sheet of paper and it's from your bank that it's your account closing. And it happened over and over and over. Sometimes it would be, you have five business days to wrap it up and we'll have checks floating and they're going to bounce and there's nothing you can do about it. Sometimes we'd have 45 days and we'd be able to do business and run around, but we got to a point where banks got also got to a point where they were wise to the marijuana industry when I walk into a bank and you sit down, you said like to open a new account, they asked for your driver's license and I always thought they were filling in some of the information to start to get your application going and the Nice lady would look up and say, Mr Cullen, it would appear that you're involved with marijuana and we're not going to be able to open this account. They're googling me.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 4: Oh, I was like, well, if you're going to google me, I'm never getting a bank account. And that's when we decided maybe we need to figure out how to do this without a bank account until, until partner federal credit. Yeah.

Speaker 5: Until they come around. Right. So, you know, as far as you, as a person, uh, you, you, you've held your chest when I asked you, you know, to talk about it. Um, you know, you have your wife, you have your parents that are, you know, worried about you to begin with, what was it like internally, you know, kind of walking around town to each of these banks knowing that you're probably going to get rejected and if I can get a bank account open, it's definitely gonna close, right? Absolutely. It's, um,

Speaker 4: the challenges that are presented to a cannabis business owner are so varied and so many that I would just put it on my list as another impossible thing that we're going to overcome this week. And it doesn't matter if it's only going to last for two weeks. It gets us two weeks further down the road. And if you're an entrepreneur you cannot, you cannot be anything but an optimist. It's always got to get better and there's always room for improvement and that's how banking was. Also. We just put our heads down and plowed through it, did the best we can persevere and hope for the best.

Speaker 5: Good. I only want to talk about fun stuff with you because the next thing I want to talk about is to 80. Oh, right, awesome. Well that's one of my face. Let's hit it because that still is the old days, meaning um, you know, sure, there's something in the house to hopefully maybe pass and maybe we'll get somewhere with it and sometime this year or next year, whatever. But uh, at this point in time, you can't deduct anything. Um, and that's what, uh, what to 80 is to 80 is, so how do you do it? You have to run your business in a different way than every other business owner in any other industry does, right? How do you do it?

Speaker 4: It's a, it's painful. It really is. We fall into a tax bracket that doesn't exist. Um, it is higher than the highest tax bracket with no ceiling to it. They can run it all the way up above 100 percent. You can owe more money than you ever made. Um, to ads something we've gotten a lot wiser to like

Speaker 6: how

Speaker 4: in terms well advertising is, uh, is, uh, like buying a diamond ring. You can spend all the money on advertising that you want assets outside of the store. Right? But it's also not deductible by two 80. He any, any expense you have towards advertising is not going to not going to be a deduction. So we had to really look at advertising budget as much as every business would like to be coca cola or Mcdonald's and plaster their name on every surface that they can on the planet. It costs too much. We have to get really smart about our advertising. Um, and so we, we did and we scaled back a lot of our advertising and tried to try to pinpoint what was really working and then not spend more. You also get penalized for employees that I'm directly deal with the transaction of cannabis. And so that's all the bud tenders and sales associates that work on the floor. So we really thought long and hard about that model and developed an ecommerce website that gives a standalone kiosk experience. So customers that walk into the store and already knew what they wanted, don't have any questions, are able to check themselves out. Essentially they have to hand the money over. And the product happens at the, at the fulfillment center. But it eliminated a number of those people on the floor and unfortunately that was the two e decision.

Speaker 5: Right. And we'll get to customer experience in a little bit. But what you're saying is kiosks, we're not a customer experience decision. No, no, not at all. Not at all. And it it, it is really

Speaker 4: fair and I really do feel like to eat, he will go away. You can't have the situation where you have these licensed legal businesses supplying millions of dollars of tax money into the economy, but we're still going to treat you like you're a black market street dealer.

Speaker 5: My, we're in compliance with the affordable care act. Might people have 401k's like let me take honest business deductions. I'm not trying to work the system. I'm just trying to do as well as the next guy is. And conformed vibe if you can be. If you can be taxed up to over 100 percent. This is a survival question. Not anything else. So absolutely no. At this point in time,

Speaker 4: marijuana is not the lucrative cash cow that that I think the public perception is until you get to to add and you start paying your taxes and go, oh my God, we're every dollar. We make forty five cents of that is going to the federal government. It, it does make you cringe. It's, it's, it's incredibly unfair and it's hard to watch politicians talk about not having to pay taxes for a long period of time when we just get raked over the coals on the grind every year.

Speaker 5: We're going to leave that one alone because we've discussed the. I'll leave it alone to discuss politics and I want to know, make sure that not every, each one of these episodes has that in it, but you know, so you've, you've got this thing though that is forty five cents goes directly to the federal government. Then of course you've got the state. Then of course you've got to pay the expenses that you need to pay to run your business. Not In the municipality. On top of all that. The city that we operate in also gets a cut. Got, yeah, there's um, yeah, the opera, these businesses are extremely heavy on the operating. We, we out of seven

Speaker 4: different buildings today. Um, it is, it is an extreme amount of overhead and what's leftover at the end. We make payroll with and get everyone's insurance paid and go by and go buy lunch and say we're gonna try. We're gonna. Try and do it again next month. We have new goals and get out there again. Now having said all that, establishing the fact that you are in no way, just like every other business, the goal is to run your business just like every other business. Oh Man, I'm so excited when that day comes, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. Wake up with a refreshed sense of, of energy and get back out there. That is what I want. I want to be treated like everyone else. I don't. I do not want to walk into a bank and be told my bank account is closing. I want to be able to walk into a bank and say we'd like to borrow $500,000 because we want to build this building out and we're going to repay you over 30 years.

Speaker 4: Like just like anybody else, like anyone else, like no other businesses are going to loan sharks, trying to get 22 percent interest rate loans with a 14 percent cap rate. Like it's crazy. It's just. So we're, we're just, we're just biding our time being patient, expanding with money that we have, making sure that we're watching our birds in hand and doing a good job with what we have. And if the opportunity comes to us to get bigger, we will. And also presenting a consumer experience that feels normal. So talk about that. Oh sure. I, it's one of my biggest pet peeves in the marijuana industry and I just got to do a whole presentation on it. So the, um, we call that a song and dance. It is the song and dance, the, the customer experience in cannabis is damaged and has, has a lot of room for improvement.

Speaker 4: I, I want customers to walk into our store and say, oh my God, this place is beautiful. I can't believe you sell marijuana here, and they have a wonderful experience, and they walk out and say, I am definitely going back there again. So what pitfalls are we falling through? What are you starting to see? What's out there now that errors that are being made in a basic retail environment? Oh sure. So I, I think you could run across this experience. I'm not going to say that every marijuana center, but if you went to five, three of them, you'd have this experience. You're going to walk in and you're going to be asked to provide government issued ids before you walk in maybe a medical marijuana card. You're going to be outside of your control that's outside of your control. Sorry. You have to do it.

Speaker 4: You're going to be asked to sign a waiver or some sort of disclaimer. You may be asked to sign something to change your caregiver over to that particular center. They may ask you for your gut, the medical for your email address. If you want to get their emails and newsletters, your phone number, if you'd like to get their text blasts, well now we're starting to get into stuff that isn't, you know, a regulated it's not and that and then you can sit there and wait. And to be honest, about 60 percent of our customers have told us that they knew what they wanted when they got in their car. So if you can imagine the same experience at any retail location where you walk in, you're bombarded with paperwork, how the showing ideas, giving out your personal information and then you're left to sit there and wait and you're just waiting to talk to someone who can check you out. And then you may find that the establishment doesn't have an ATM onsite and now you have to leave to go get cash across the street to come back and repeat the experience again. It's terrible. We have to be able to do better than that.

Speaker 5: So some of that is, you know, you kind of lucked out almost with your two. He a kiosks as well because it may makes my experience easier and quicker if I know exactly what I want so that that's some of them exactly. What about this other waiting that you're talking about? Oh,

Speaker 4: well, so most most transactions happen with a one on one experience with a sales associate or a bud tender and you're waiting for that person to check you out. So the new retail model that we're doing looks a lot more like an apple store. They're our employees around. If you have questions that are happy to help you out, but if you really don't have questions and you know what you want, you really can check yourself, check yourself out, run over to fulfillment and grab your products and you're out the door. It makes it really fast and easy. We also, it changed the flow of traffic in the store also, so rather than people walking in and immediately waiting, now they walk in and they're immediately shopping. The weight comes after they've placed their order and before fulfillment does it. So we put a couple of really fun things in the store.

Speaker 4: We pimped out of 1967 vw bus and turned it into a photo booth so you can enter your email in there at countdown three, two, one and it'll snap three photos of you and it sends it to your email. We um, put in live glass blowing studio so we have, it's like a fish tank in the middle of the store and there's glass blowers working in there and we just leased that space out to them and they're making glass and taking custom orders for people. But what it does is gives, gives people something to do for a few minutes while they're waiting for their order

Speaker 5: cause they are going wait. So then let's give them something to do exactly. Rather than I'm kind of realized that well they're going to have to present id at the door and they're going to have to do this and they're going to have to do x, Y, and z. So you might as well just, you know, kind of do it all at once. Your thinking around those.

Speaker 4: Oh sure. I would, I wouldn't, I wouldn't ask someone for their personal information until I knew their name. I want, I want my employees to be able to say, welcome back to the store, George. Hey, we noticed you're shopping here a lot. Would you like to receive the deals we send out on email every week? You have a way better chance of getting that information then the other right off the bat. Don't have no relationship at all. And now you'd want my phone number right way?

Speaker 5: No. All right. So, so we're growing up so to speak, right? It's uh, it's not, um, if we can do business tomorrow, it's how are we going to do business with. Those are two different questions and you're, it seems like you're more asking the second one.

Speaker 4: Sure. Well, at this point I'm. The tax revenue has been outrageously successful or the state for the state of Colorado. They just a couple of weeks ago, the front page of the Denver Post show tax revenue by class and the cannabis taxes collected were half of what oil and gas was in Colorado last year. I mean, it gives us something to shoot for. I think we can surpass oil and gas, but I don't think people realize the amount of, of tax revenue that the state was collecting from cannabis companies and that is one of the reasons that cannabis will always be here once the government is putting that money to work, they need it to continue the programs that, the, that it's funding and

Speaker 5: let, let me just make sure that we understand what you're saying. Every other industry was below cannabis. The only other industry that was giving more tax revenue is oil and gas.

Speaker 4: Oh, there was, um, I, I think wheat farming Colorado, Colorado was, was up there. Maybe one above. It was tied with tobacco revenue. Cigarette taxes I think at the time was at the top. Oh yeah. Oh No. Certainly there were all sorts of things that you would have thought might have viewed out cannabis. But now it's really there

Speaker 5: and that's three years into. And it is hard to believe it. It's three years, but we're only three years into adult use. Right. So we see the figures of flour versus, you know, anything else that's being sold in the store and you know, the astronomical percentage growth is still there. Of course that'll calm down, but you know, as we go here, the tax revenues to the state or just through the roof.

Speaker 4: Oh absolutely. Absolutely. And one thing that, that I think the voters we're really excited about too is the first $40,000,000 of the excise tax, which is the internal tax that we pay, not collected at the point of sale. Every pound that moves from her grow to a retail store is taxed at about $300. The first $40,000,000 of that goes directly to bricks and mortar construction of public schools and they've met that every single year. $40,000,000 back into education. And it's not widely publicized, but it's awesome. I, the city of Aurora and uh, and the city of Denver are both now using tax revenue to fund homeless shelters and counseling and homeless awareness and prevention. What great programs to be able to say we contributed to that because I was never going to be able to make a dent in something like that. It takes a city to decide that they're going to tackle that as a social issue. Right?

Speaker 5: So, uh, we, the people in cannabis making a difference. Yes

Speaker 4: we are. Yes, we are. We are. We are though. I mean when you go, when you go downstairs and look at how many people are here, there are thousands and thousands and thousands of people here from all over the world. I, I talked to some ladies that would come from Guam, I to a guy from Canada. There's people from Mexico and Europe and they're all in Las Vegas because they all want to know what's the next thing? What's going on? Where's this going and how do I participate? One of those answers is Montana, right? To go invest too heavily in Montana or North Dakota. I'm proud of him for passing the metric, but I think this hotel might hold more people than the entire state of North Dakota. That's fair. And we'll get back to you on those statistics were up to the three final questions. I'll tell you what they are and then I'll ask you them in order.

Speaker 4: What has most surprised you in cannabis or what has most surprised you in life and on the soundtrack of Tim Collins life named one track. One song that's got to be on there. But first things first. I love it. What has most surprised you in cannabis? I the most surprising thing. Hands down. No question about it. I don't even have to think about it is how quickly the social acceptance moved from 70 years of negative propaganda to oh that's so cool that you brought to joints instead of a bottle of wine to my house warming party and they're actually excited about it. I mean the social acceptance and and losing the stigma associated with cannabis has happened very fast and I don't think it's all the way gone. It's not there. There is still a stigma associated with it, but I think that stigma is going away very, very quickly.

Speaker 4: Absolutely. Sixty percent of the people are in support of medical marijuana. Come on. Well, the fact that Colorado just passed initiative 300, that allows you to consumption and in bars and restaurants. I'm not that it wasn't going on already, but now it's official. I'm happy now there's a license involved with it so that there can be some revenue made off of it. The, um, I mean, that's amazing to be able to come back to the voters three years later and say we'd like to expand the program into the restaurants that you're eating at. And people said we'd like that also. Yeah. That is a crazy place to find ourselves. It really, really is a, what has most surprised you in life? What I. It's been interesting the entire time. I think it's a, is a great question. I think the answer is probably more more personal, but I mean the, my son was born four years ago and he is the most surprising thing in life.

Speaker 4: To me, cannabis has been amazing, but finding that balance between working in a really stressful job and being a good father and a husband has been something that you really have to work at when you're a business owner. Your Day doesn't end at 5:00. My phone can ring at three in the morning and it's the security company in some. It's an actual issue that you really have to deal with. You have to deal with it and it's going to be a three in the morning and someone threw a rock through a window and it's, you know, it's game on. I'm up. I'm working now. Um, but being able to, to find that balance is something that I see a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with. And I also think it is, it is what lets you persist day in and day out on the grind. If you can't find that balance, you're going to be a rocket that burns out.

Speaker 4: You have to find that balance. And, and having a little boy at home that helps, helps to justify and provide that balance in my life. What, what, uh, what kind of stuff is he into? Oh Man, he uh, robots, robots and flies if it flies or, or a flying robot that would, that would like, that's a mix over the moon. But we're kind of old school. My, I told you my wife is an education also. So his toys are like Lincoln logs and Legos. He's got these cool new things called magna tiles that are sort of like magnetic lincoln logs that all clipped together. Sure. That he doesn't have a lot of crazy electronic toys. He's not, we don't really watch TV. So he's not into TV. That's been sort of fun to. I don't know, I guess it's sort of weird in a way to impress your values on another human who has no choice in the thing that, oh, but I really feel like he's, he's going to be a great kid.

Speaker 4: And, and he's, he's exciting and he's excited and he's. But for him, he's going to grow up with me doing this job. And I hope that stigma is gone enough by the time that he realized he thinks I go to school every day because that's what everyone's doing and I'll go to school. And so he doesn't really know or understand what dad is up to. And um, it's my hope that, that society will have changed enough by the time that, that he's, he's aware of that, that that stigma is gone. And His dad's a respected business owner and there's nothing more to it than that. I mean, 10, 15 years. I think it's, it's almost no doubt. I will say my nephew is three and a half years old. So he's a similarity in that zone. And He, uh, he took my sister's scarf, like a big scarf, you know, and put it over his head.

Speaker 4: And he became the superhero that he created named black wax. That's exactly how it says it's his creation. I said, I said to my brother in law, you must have done this. He's like, no, this is all his own. No, what's the power? Um, he, he, we haven't figured it out yet, you know, because I think he still figuring it out. But he does have a Suntan lotion bottle that's a fire blaster. Oh, sure. Yeah. So you know, he's working with that so far. Oh yeah. Probably want to stay out of the way that. Absolutely use it against you. That's right. That's right. Um, so finally on the soundtrack of your life, Tim Collins, a musician of sorts, for sure. God, I'm trying to think of one I'd like, I'd like it to be something something clever and, and, and all encompassing. I'm sure it could also be just a song, get life.

Speaker 4: It could just be a song I liked, but I'm a perfectionist and I can't, I can't just let it be a song that I like, man, there are so many of them. Um, maybe we'll go with the times they are a change and stick with the Bob Dylan theme. I really feel like times they are a changing and that doesn't always mean necessarily in a good way, right? Times the times are changing in ways that we don't. And I think the country as a whole is coming into a time of uncertainty, but honestly, marijuana entrepreneurs live in uncertainty and used to it. I'm a, that feeling in my gut is not new to me and I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm okay moving forward with it. So life's a roller coaster. Hold on tight and that's right manner, but I don't know where it stops or gets off or what the plan is, but it's, it's been a fun ride. It's been amazing. Tim Collin, thanks so much. Thanks so much. I really appreciate it too. And there you have Tim Cullen

Speaker 1: and of course David Brown, very interesting recommendations by the task force to the Canadian government, federally regulated adult use cannabis nation wide. Imagine that here in the United States. So, uh, interesting, uh, to put that along side what's happening in Colorado. Hey, thank you for listening.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.