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Ep.212: Troy Dayton, Part II & Ryan Hurley

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.212: Troy Dayton, Part II & Ryan Hurley

Ep.212: Troy Dayton, Part II & Ryan Hurley

Troy Dayton, ArcView & Ryan Hurley, Rose Law Group
Ryan Hurley joins us and discusses the renewed focus on the medical market in AZ in the wake of adult-use not passing this past election day. Ryan shares that he came to the industry as a patient, which turned him into an activist, as it’s wont to do.
Speaking of activists, Troy Dayton then joins us beginning the conversation on Arizona. His bottom line is that if we were not outspent in Arizona we would have won. He then points though to the eight wins featuring cannabis businesses stepping up to get behind each of the winning initiatives. Troy goes on to discuss focusing on harmony as opposed to discord in dialogue.

Transcript:

Speaker 1: Troy Dayton and Ryan Hurley joins us and discusses the renewed focus on the medical market in Arizona in the wake of adult use not passing this past election day. Ryan shares that he came into the industry as a patient, which turned it into an activist as it's wanting to do, speaking of activists, Troy Dayton, than joins us beginning the conversation in Arizona. His bottom line is that if we were outspent, we would have won. He then points though to the eight wins featuring cannabis businesses stepping up to get behind each of those winning initiatives. Troy goes onto discuss focusing on harmony as opposed to discord in dialogue. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handle can economy. That's two ends of the word economy. Ryan Hurley, followed by troy. Date, enjoy.

Speaker 2: Because you've been around. I have, yeah. What a veteran. Now six years, six years put you at 2010. Yeah, right when Arizona is medical marijuana law passed. Okay. Yeah. So what happened here? What happened with Arizona? Yeah. Well our opposition spent a whole lot of money to lie to the public and you know, when they do that and you lie often enough with the big enough bank account, people start to believe. Sure. And so, you know, yes. Okay. Uh, there wasn't truth, but the bank account thing, so we got to get people more involved in, in Arizona, right. If we're going to beat them. Yeah. I mean, I think the crazy thing is, is we had an amazing showing from the industry. I mean we raised over $5,000,000 to put this on the, on the ballot and to get it past, nobody anticipated that kind of level of opposition in Arizona.

Speaker 2: I think they raised $7 to fight us and obviously they didn't have to spend 800,000 to get it on the ballot in the first place. So yeah. Okay. So, but it sounds like we're going to need about 8 million or 9 million next time. Yeah, potentially, uh, you know, we'll see and it'll probably be four years, so we'll see what kind of opposition is still around at that point in time. Maybe Sheldon Adelson dies by that point, you know, hopefully, who knows, you never know, who knows? But yeah, I mean I think another four years of seeing a all these success stories out there and it will get it done in 20, 20, so 2010 though, you know, you guys really do have a very good a medical program we do in Arizona. So talk about the early days in 2010 when it came to be. Yeah. So it was, it was chaos, uh, when, when the law passed, it was a, you know, everybody thought it was gonna pass and then it took about two weeks of counting the votes and it only ended up passing by 4,000 votes.

Speaker 2: So it was a, the slimmest of margins. Uh, and then, uh, the, the Department of health services rolled out the, the rules and start getting patients cards pretty quickly. But then the governor filed the lawsuit and tried to hold up the dispensary part of the program and so we had to deal with that. We went to federal court with her and obviously a brewer and that, uh, that got thrown out and uh, we had a little, a press conference to try to get some applications in and then they held that up again. So it was a 2012 before they actually issued dispensary licenses. Ah, about two year delay. Okay. Yeah. And so a dispensary licenses when, when did the first a one start to pop up that, uh, yeah, so they got issued in August of 12. And then right after that, our county attorney, who was our main prohibitionist and chief, so to speak and filed his own little lawsuit and kind of put a hold on everything.

Speaker 2: So there's about six or eight month period after licenses got issue where everybody was afraid to open pending the results of this lawsuit. And um, one of my clients just decided they were going to go ahead and do it and uh, you know, dared him to come and get them basically. And they opened up and literally the day after the court case came down saying that we were okay to do it. So I mean, they, I don't know if they just had a premonition or if they'd had enough and they'd spent enough money and so they had the first opening and we had 2013. Uh, so it was December of 12. It was, they made it in, in, in 2012. And then they started to pop up along the way in 2013. Yeah. And then, uh, over the next couple of years we opened up about 95 dispensary licenses in the state and they're all vertically integrated in Arizona.

Speaker 1: Troy Dayton and Ryan Hurley joins us and discusses the renewed focus on the medical market in Arizona in the wake of adult use not passing this past election day. Ryan shares that he came into the industry as a patient, which turned it into an activist as it's wanting to do, speaking of activists, Troy Dayton, than joins us beginning the conversation in Arizona. His bottom line is that if we were outspent, we would have won. He then points though to the eight wins featuring cannabis businesses stepping up to get behind each of those winning initiatives. Troy goes onto discuss focusing on harmony as opposed to discord in dialogue. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handle can economy. That's two ends of the word economy. Ryan Hurley, followed by troy. Date, enjoy.

Speaker 2: Because you've been around. I have, yeah. What a veteran. Now six years, six years put you at 2010. Yeah, right when Arizona is medical marijuana law passed. Okay. Yeah. So what happened here? What happened with Arizona? Yeah. Well our opposition spent a whole lot of money to lie to the public and you know, when they do that and you lie often enough with the big enough bank account, people start to believe. Sure. And so, you know, yes. Okay. Uh, there wasn't truth, but the bank account thing, so we got to get people more involved in, in Arizona, right. If we're going to beat them. Yeah. I mean, I think the crazy thing is, is we had an amazing showing from the industry. I mean we raised over $5,000,000 to put this on the, on the ballot and to get it past, nobody anticipated that kind of level of opposition in Arizona.

Speaker 2: I think they raised $7 to fight us and obviously they didn't have to spend 800,000 to get it on the ballot in the first place. So yeah. Okay. So, but it sounds like we're going to need about 8 million or 9 million next time. Yeah, potentially, uh, you know, we'll see and it'll probably be four years, so we'll see what kind of opposition is still around at that point in time. Maybe Sheldon Adelson dies by that point, you know, hopefully, who knows, you never know, who knows? But yeah, I mean I think another four years of seeing a all these success stories out there and it will get it done in 20, 20, so 2010 though, you know, you guys really do have a very good a medical program we do in Arizona. So talk about the early days in 2010 when it came to be. Yeah. So it was, it was chaos, uh, when, when the law passed, it was a, you know, everybody thought it was gonna pass and then it took about two weeks of counting the votes and it only ended up passing by 4,000 votes.

Speaker 2: So it was a, the slimmest of margins. Uh, and then, uh, the, the Department of health services rolled out the, the rules and start getting patients cards pretty quickly. But then the governor filed the lawsuit and tried to hold up the dispensary part of the program and so we had to deal with that. We went to federal court with her and obviously a brewer and that, uh, that got thrown out and uh, we had a little, a press conference to try to get some applications in and then they held that up again. So it was a 2012 before they actually issued dispensary licenses. Ah, about two year delay. Okay. Yeah. And so a dispensary licenses when, when did the first a one start to pop up that, uh, yeah, so they got issued in August of 12. And then right after that, our county attorney, who was our main prohibitionist and chief, so to speak and filed his own little lawsuit and kind of put a hold on everything.

Speaker 2: So there's about six or eight month period after licenses got issue where everybody was afraid to open pending the results of this lawsuit. And um, one of my clients just decided they were going to go ahead and do it and uh, you know, dared him to come and get them basically. And they opened up and literally the day after the court case came down saying that we were okay to do it. So I mean, they, I don't know if they just had a premonition or if they'd had enough and they'd spent enough money and so they had the first opening and we had 2013. Uh, so it was December of 12. It was, they made it in, in, in 2012. And then they started to pop up along the way in 2013. Yeah. And then, uh, over the next couple of years we opened up about 95 dispensary licenses in the state and they're all vertically integrated in Arizona.

Speaker 2: So that gives you the right to grow and to dispense a. and I think we're at about a 250, $300,000,000 industry for this year. Um, and now it's over 100 licenses, but just type of thing. Yeah. So we had 95 open and then they just issued 31 more. So yeah. So we should be better at our cap now. Okay. And uh, what's the population of Arizona again? Just if we're like 6 million, something like that, it's slightly, slightly bigger than Colorado. Right. So, but uh, with many fewer dispensary's yes. A lot fewer dispensary's for sure. A 100,000 patients. Um, my guess is that after the election failing, I got a lot, a lot of emails from friends saying, how do I go get my card now? They were all kind of waiting to see if they had to go do it. That's exactly right. So I would expect we'll be closer to 200,000 patients, so within a year or two.

Speaker 2: And then why do we talk to you about cannabis? How did you get yourself mixed up in this whole thing you said, you know? Yes. Okay. They voted it in and then let me jump in. But not everybody jumps in on day one type of thing. Yeah, it was a, it was a kind of a weird confluence of events. First, I am a patient and a consumer and have them. Do you mind if I ask you about the patient side of things? Do you know what, what? Uh, what's the deal there? Yeah. So I've had migraines, pretty debilitating migraines since I was in seventh grade and they would knock me out for 48 hours, 24, 48 hours, and the only thing I could do was take a whole bunch of Ibuprofen and try to sleep for 24 hours. Uh, I was pretty goody two shoes in high school, never did a really much wrong and got to college and tried marijuana just casually as a, as a social thing and started to realize that my headaches were going away and I started to talk to a few other people and they say, yeah, that's, you know, that's why I use it.

Speaker 2: I use it for, for a number of different reasons. But one guy had migraines and I started putting two and two together and you know, I, after I became a semi-regular user of cannabis, my migraines essentially went away. And so that's, that's what my patient card is for. Yeah. And so, you know, uh, you know, the benefits. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, did you know, but that's how you have your patient card now. When was that? What was the timeline of when you started to realize that cannabis was related to the. What year was that is what I'm asking you? Yeah. So, well, 2010 was when the election was up. No, no. What year was your day? Or did I get my card? No, what year? Oh yes. So you're, you're a patient. That's fantastic. What I'm saying is you became aware of cannabis as medicine.

Speaker 2: Yeah. You in what year? Yeah. Gosh, that would have been probably [inaudible] 97, something like that. So 97 and then 2010, they come around and they're saying, okay, we're going to do legal cannabis. Yeah. Well, what kind of professional were you that said, okay, fine. I know that it kind of misses medicine, right? But I, I still, you know, here's the last step. I know that I can do some, you know, effect change in the industry. What was it? Yeah. Well, so it was again, a weird sort of confluence of events. Uh, I'd gotten to know the campaign manager for the medical marijuana initiative and reddit and realized that they were going to need help if it got past a, at the time I was doing a lot of renewable energy work. We had started a renewable energy practice group, but my firm and the same election, there was a slate of, uh, Republicans running for the corporation commission, which regulates electricity and solar in Arizona.

Speaker 2: And I was probably a little too vocal in my opposition against those folks. And they unfortunately won their election and shortly thereafter they told me I was no longer welcome to practice law down there. Oh Wow. Total, absolute retribution for differing political views and wow. Crazy. Yeah. And I was a little more naive at the time and didn't think anything like that would be possible. Um, but the same election is when the initiative had passed. And so I kinda just started running with it and have a little bit of interest in necessity opportunity. Sure. Thinking that I was going to have to leave my firm to do it because they were relatively conservative and uh, on the right side of the aisle anyway, and I think it was, uh, you know, the firm hadn't fully recovered from the real estate crash yet and uh, so it was, it was good opportunity and we're a unique firm.

Speaker 2: We try to be on the cutting edge of issues and we just started to run with it and you know, at the time nobody else was willing to touch it. So we kind of built a little niche for ourselves. So talk us through, you know, as far as affecting policy once again, talk us through the, the kind of generation of, of the thing that we just voted on in Arizona. So what do you mean creating the, the proposition? Yeah. So that was, that was quite an effort. I mean, it was really one of the hardest things I've ever worked on in my life. And you know, of course the election result was devastating. I didn't get out of bed for a couple of days shorting, um, but, uh, it was really, I found myself in this really strange role where I was representing National MPP, but most of my client base for the dispensary in Arizona and I felt a real obligation personally and ethically to the patients.

Speaker 2: Sure. Consumers, right? So I'm kind of in the middle of this triangle of interests and everybody hated me at one point in time or another, of course. And in the hard part was I'm kinda hanging myself out there and my clients are like, what the heck are you doing? Why are you doing this? You know, this is not, we, we'd rather have it this way. And so I try to maintain that balance was, was tricky. And uh, you know, I think we, under the circumstances, we got the best thing we could on the ballot at the time. And uh, you know, a couple of things had gone a little different. We might have passed it, but. And so what is, you know, we talked about just money and how much we need next time. We talked about the opposition and um, the freedom with facts, um, uh, you know, or how liberal they are with facts about that.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm and elected officials who are lawyers by the way, having no problem lying to the public as far as I'm concerned, as unethical. That's fair. Um, what needs to be done, you know, if you're going to wait four years. Okay, fine. What does need to be done to make sure that it's passed next time? You know, it's going to be interesting to see how much a sort of maybe policy type decisions that we have to compromise on. I think one of the biggest weaknesses that we had was, um, you know, no standard for impaired driving that was, that was something we got hammered on a lot. It's something that the public is worried about, rightfully so. Right. And we didn't, you know, the only really response we had was we don't know what that level is, so it'd be irresponsible of us to put that in an initiative.

Speaker 2: Exactly right. Uh, you know, I don't know how receptive to the public was to that. And, and uh, so maybe do that differently. Yeah, maybe that's a compromise. We gotta make 'em one of the, I think self inflicted wounds that we probably could have avoided was limiting the number of dispensary licenses available that would largely have gone to the existing medical marijuana dispensaries. Obviously those guys, the vast majority of the bill, right, for the initiative and they wanted to make sure their interests were protected and understandably so, but I think with the headstart that they had and the way that they were positioned, we probably could have not had that in there and they would have been fine. Leave that alone next time then we wouldn't have actually four years from now. Right. And then we wouldn't have been susceptible to the, Oh, this is a marijuana marijuana.

Speaker 2: And we got that argument for both sides. Right. We got it from the activist from the probation, of course. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Welcome to helping people. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That was a crazy thing. I mean, I knew I was going to be attacked by the prohibitionist of the world, but these people that I thought I was trying to help call me a sellout, no corporate, you know, corporate weed guy was like, come on man. I mean I'm putting myself out there to help you and what have you done? Right? I'm laughing with you with pain. Makes Sense. Yeah, for sure. I'm in support of you is what I'm saying. It's come time for a three final questions because we only have a couple minutes, so I'll tell you what they are and then Alaska them in order. What's most surprised you in cannabis? What has most surprised you in life?

Speaker 2: And then on the soundtrack of your life named one track, one song that's got to be on there. Oh man, that's last saw. What has most surprised you in cannabis? Uh, I think just the, the astonishing pace of the growth. I mean, it really is phenomenal to watch. I mean, I, you know, first few events that I started coming to, it was like, you knew everybody and it was like, you're a big fish in a small pond and now I'm here and it's like, Oh man, there's 10,000 people here and I know, you know, a small fraction of it. So that, that's just been astonishing to watch. It's amazing. And, and the pace at which it's a, you know, the paces which it's gone. I mean, I know that Arizona lost, but hey man, we want eight and nine. Yeah, that's amazing. That's it. I mean, to me that's the death now.

Speaker 2: A prohibition right there. Well, let's hope it's not going to add a varsity. What has most surprised you in life? What has most surprised me in life? Oh Man. I don't know. That's a deep one. Um, yeah. I don't know. I think that, uh, figuring out how to roll with the punches and really take the ups and the downs and appreciate the downs for what they are and try to learn those lessons. I think that, uh, you know, it really, it just takes a mindset to decide that you're not going to let this get you down and that you got to keep moving and there are things that are more important like your family and your friends and you put that first and, and uh, I think, you know, I don't, I don't know if I would have had so much faith in my ability to do that earlier on when she was younger.

Speaker 2: And so I guess that's, that's something that's pleasantly surprised me. Indeed. And when you were younger, I would argue that you didn't have the ability to do it. Yeah. Probably not put your faith in A. Yeah, on the soundtrack of your life named one track. One song that's got to be on there, man. Uh, you know, I don't know. That's a good one. Um, the uh, uh, I think it's the pixies. The, a song from the end of fight club. Oh Wow. Oh sure. I did. Yeah. When the buildings are going down. Yeah, that'd be a good one. That's a, that's an a. again, there's a, a, a, a one to 10 scale than epic scale for music

Speaker 3: that I like to, uh, you know, put in, put in play and that would be

Speaker 2: beyond that, uh, that epic scale towards the top. I mean, that movie was a huge, a crystallization of my life of seeing, you know, I don't know, kind of fighting against the status quo and it was, it was also at the right time in your life, if I'm not mistaken, or early twenties, right at that point. Perfect time. Yeah, exactly. You know, early twenties, male in college. Yeah. It was like, that movie was made for me for sure. Yeah. And then watching those buildings crumble, that song's going on in the background was just impressive to say the least. Uh, Ryan, thank you for your work. We know it didn't work out quite the way that we wanted, but um, the groundwork has been laid and we'll see them next time. Absolutely. And thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. I'm glad we finally got the opportunity to do it. You've got a man.

Speaker 1: This episode is supported by Brandon branch. Brenda branch provides intellectual property legal services with a focus on the cannabis industry. Shabnam Malik and Amanda Conley Founded Brenda branch in 2015 to provide nimble cost effective intellectual property services. Brand new is proud to offer high quality services with flexible billing arrangements, including flat fees and monthly subscription plans to meet the needs of early and mid stage companies. Brand of branch helps companies with branding, creative content and compliance. Go to brandon branch.com/can economy for more detail. Troy date. So here we are, right? It's, it's almost exactly a year later rather than what they say it

Speaker 3: was 5,000 people. There's 10,000 people. Yes. You're here in Vegas at the thing. Uh, rather than minus eight states. We are plus eight states. Eight out of nine. Can we let's start there, right? Yeah. It's really unbelievable. Eight out of nine. I mean, even the most optimistic predictions wouldn't have predicted. Eight out of nine victories. I mean, I put a prediction of the night before. Right? Man, what you have in California, Massachusetts. I think he had one other one or. Oh No, I thought we were gonna win a. I Actually thought we were going to win all of the adult use. Ah, you had Arizona. I did have Arizona, but I had, I said that it would be so close that they'd be counting the weekend for months. Uh, but, you know, it wasn't as close as I thought. Alright. Yeah. And you know, we just talked to lilac power, I don't know if you know her and operator in, in Arizona.

Speaker 3: And she said, you know, we were hopeful there at the end because we got up to 52 percent. Yep. Um, but you know, Sheldon's money did win one one place, right? Yeah. And I think, you know, Arizona is a wake up call. I mean there's a silver lining and the loss and Arizona and it means that we can't not keep donating and keep fighting. I mean we lost Arizona because we were outspent by the opposition plane should not happen. If we did, if we had not been out spent, we would have won. And the reason we were outspent was because people who cared and people who had businesses in this sector that could have contributed, didn't. Okay. Let's talk more about that troy, because you know, um, I, I sit across from SSDP Troy, right? Yes. As well as the CEO of Arcview. Let's talk about involvement.

Speaker 3: Let's talk about what the industry should be doing needs to be doing, you know, because we've got the wind at our backs that feels like. But also there is that, that lesson in Arizona and there also is that opposition in Colorado that try to get the, uh, you know, your percentages on the ballot, you know, so it's not, we're not, uh, you know, kind of out of the woods. Yeah. So what are you calling on businesses to do? Well, I didn't mean to start with the negative. There I. What I want us to really say is that this was the first time that the cannabis industry played a very considerable role in funding the ballot initiatives. I mean, particularly in Arizona and Nevada. It was the businesses that stood out the most to gain, that really stepped up and donated in a way that was truly inspiring to me as well as a number of the bigger companies.

Speaker 3: A nationally really stepped up. We had over 25 companies, uh, that are in the cannabis industry, contributed over $100,000. That's a lot more raise, raise, razor contribute. And then we had, um, I mean some, some real standouts. Um, you know, uh, people that are over $200 to 50, you know, Mass Roots Med men, a Dr Bronner's at arcview. Uh, what we've just raised from our stage and what from just me on the phones with people. Sure. We raised one point $5, million dollars. There you go for this stuff. Weedmaps over a million. Right? And so, you know, there's been some really significant, inefficient and, and you know, a lot of the companies. I mean, you know, I really want these companies to get as much promotion as possible of the people that are on that hundred k lists because it really made a difference. And I think that we are turning the corner where you can't really be in business without having built into your plan donating to change the laws.

Speaker 3: Look, I mean, it's, it, there's the, there's the, the part of it where you say, hey look, we're trying to sit here and make money off of something that other people are sitting in prison for. Right? And so, you know, if you're going to do that, then you've got to take a role in creating justice for your consumers. Right? There's that. But there's also just numbers, basic business numbers, basic business. Okay. This is a very small investment to open up a very large market. Um, and so we need to be able to have the robust lobbying presence, uh, that it's going to take to defend the laws that we've passed already already stay where we are even exact, let alone get further. Yeah. And so I think now we've really got to turn our attention federally, uh, and, and really, uh, make sure that we have a robust presence there so that cannabis businesses can be treated like any other business.

Speaker 3: And we've got Steve Fox on the, on the job from an NCAA perspective, which we love. That's the right guy. Absolutely. But when you say it's a small investment to make on a very large a market potential, you mentioned the investment that some folks did make and uh, that's very much appreciated as far as the market potential. I mean, you guys put put out numbers all the time. Where are you right now on the size of the market and what we're actually looking at? Yeah. Yeah. Um, so we, we predict that our estimate that in 2016, this is a seven point $9,000,000,000 market this year. This year already? Yes. Growing to a $21,000,000,000 market by 2020. And just on the elections, just what passed on election night a is going to account for about seven point 4 billion new dollars by 2020 annually. Right? So on top of. What's the tone?

Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no. So we're still at $21, million. 20. I just mean that, that the, that what passed on election day as a third is going to make. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, yeah, it's a third of it, but it's also basically the doubling what the current market is. Sure. Right. So, uh, it's really just enormous and it's, it's, it's, uh, there's nothing more powerful in a world than an idea whose time has come and the time for ending marijuana prohibition has clearly come. Um, we, this was marijuana's moment and it seems to be the one thing that Americans can agree on. Absolutely. Without question. Um, we've been saying all along and as has been the case all along, no matter if you're Democrat or Republican, cannabis gets more votes than you. That obviously happened on this ballot as well. What is just amazing though, is that on as far as the presidency without going there, what I can say is that obviously there's a tremendous split in the way people see that there is not a tremendous split in the way people see cannabis.

Speaker 3: Everyone seems to be on the same page, including Montana and North Dakota and Arkansas. Yeah. Well, at least on medical cannabis shrink, we're, we're really, let's just take one step at a time. Yeah, I mean, you, you look at Florida, I mean, we really, you look at all of the states. I mean, look, most people had Arkansas like, marked off the list, right? Because you, you haven't had to ballots to initiatives on the ballot that was going to lose. Steve Fox was hopeful. I will give you a guy, but these margins are amazing. Sixty five percent in North Dakota and [inaudible] 71 percent in Florida. I mean, come on. Yeah, I mean that's obscene that nothing gets 71 percent. Nothing. I've been saying that I don't even agree with myself. Seventy one percent. I know. Right? And, and you have these, um, you have these demographics, uh, in the larger election that we're driving different populations to the polls than we tend to do best with.

Speaker 3: Right? We don't, you know, Latinos and um, uh, and, and conservatives are not generally the people we do the best with, those aren't our votes, those. And then we had suppressed sort of liberal and younger and intermittent voters. Right. That was like a, a lower turnout, right. Those are the ones we do the best with. Right. And so in, in a, in an election where the demographics of who was coming out to vote, we're not traditionally in our favor, getting 71 percent is absolutely remarkable. It's stunning. I mean, we've really shifted and there is just not a single audience where medical marijuana does not have a majority and we're moving into a place where there's not a single, a demographic pool of people who, uh, is not at a super majority. Right. So, I mean, it's, it's an absolutely incredible time. Now anything, everyone's at 60 percent or more type of thing, right?

Speaker 3: Yeah. It's amazing. And then for them to vote that much for a specific proposal. Right. Because you always lose when you give specifics, here's actual words. Right, right. Yeah. And there was real money spent against it and so, uh, yeah, I mean, I just think it would be absolutely political suicide for the administration to go against something that was so popular. It's the only thing that everyone agreed on, right. It's, it literally is. So for the incoming administration you're saying to, to, to kind of bat that back seems well the ludicrous politically. Absolutely. Yeah. And then you look at California and Massachusetts and Nevada, we really significant margins of victory. I'm mean Maine's a squeaker, but sure. But you know, these are significant margins of victory. I mean, when I got started in this in 1995, there was 36 percent public support for cannabis legalization.

Speaker 3: Thirty six, just over a third. Now we're at over 60, almost two thirds doubled. It's Crayon believable. It feels, I feel really like, just totally blessed to have to be around for such a shift on something I've devoted my life to write. Most people don't that. And, and I'm reminded of a chuck Thomas who helped who co founded the marijuana policy project and I'll never forget when I was maybe 19 or 20 and I was talking with him and I said, um, when do you think it's going to happen? When do you think we're going to legalize cannabis? Chuck? And uh, and him like, do you think it's me in five years, mean seven years? He said, troy, it doesn't matter when it happens, you know there's always going to be people who want to deprive other people of liberty for what they choose to do with their lives.

Speaker 3: Right? That's just part of the human existence. Right, and you get to decide whether you want to fight on the side of liberty and freedom or if you want to be passive and let these things happen, and sometimes when you're alive, the issue you're working on for freedom is going to be in the win column and will have passed various thresholds or sometimes it's actually going to be going the other way, but you wouldn't know which way. You wouldn't know where it would be if it wasn't for you fighting on the on the one side, and so you got to figure out how to find joy in getting up and fighting for the for, for what you believe in for what's right for you, and let the chips fall where they may let. Let let political pundants be the ones that get all worked up over that.

Speaker 3: You're just, yeah, you're just proud to be fighting for freedom and so it feels good that we're winning on this issue right now. Um, that feels great. I'm trying to generate as much, uh, excitement and as much, um, charge in the system because there's going to be a lot of other issues we're going to need to fight harder on as we go. Yeah. So speaking to that activism and uh, you know, I want to speak generally to the country, but first to prop 64, because I know you live in California. I do. Um, and you know, uh, in our, uh, wonderful industry, uh, not everyone was vociferously behind prop 64, so I'm in the industry where even against it. Yeah. So to those people that didn't love the language or even were against it now that it has passed in terms of activism in terms of making things, um, affecting change to what you believe in, what our folks to do now, uh, specifically in California.

Speaker 3: And then we'll obviously paint a broader brush across the country if you're in Montana or whatever. What do you do if you really want to effect change with the way that prop 64 was written? Oh, well, I mean there's, you know, prop 64 was not perfect, uh, and, but it's so vastly better than the previous status quo of not being a, not a rabid market. Yeah. And so, but there's a lot of opportunities for improvement and I think that, uh, you know, we've got to go to the legislature, we've got to work to make some of those changes and um, and, and, and I think a lot will happen in the rule making process as well. Um, and I think they're going to be doing public comment on it an mean it's going to be years before this is implemented, right? Um, and so we've got some time to really make some of those changes and I think, um, you know, there's good reason to believe that we'll, we will be able to make some of those changes.

Speaker 3: How important is it for somebody that cares about what's going on to, to show up at that public commentary, to show up at those meetings, to show up at those workshops? And it's vitally important, you know, I mean, a lot of people think that the, there one act of democracy is voting, uh, and you know, that's just the beginning said, you know, you've got to be engaged in the process and if you want to have an impact on it, um, and you know, if, if only sharing things on facebook could count as civic civic engagement, we'd be the most civically engaged country in the world. So just to that end and not speaking to any one part of the political spectrum, but to the entire spectrum as one. Uh, what I've noticed is that, um, everyone seems to be yelling at each other, uh, with vitriol.

Speaker 3: And there are very few productive conversations at all, specifically in a digital form and very few even in person. There's almost no effective political discourse between human beings now here in the United States. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, man, thank God we have cannabis. It's a surprise because a, it's not just the plant but the, but the issue is we've got the plant in the issue. It seems to be bringing everybody together. I'm for real. Yeah. Um, yeah, it is. Oh, the polarization is, it's really shocking to me. It's, it's, and, and I've played a role in it too, right? You know, like, I mean, I don't think that I'm a, you know, I'm immune to being totally dismissive of other people's opinions. Like, I mean I'm as susceptible as anybody else and it's just hard to even make sense of what's happening right now.

Speaker 3: But, you know, I always just sort of touch back on things. It's like, wait, is, is the perspective that someone sharing, is it going to. It is it, is it, is it, is it out of love? And is it a, is it seeking harmony where there's discord, right? Um, and I think that we are going to need the people who will stand on the side of finding harmony. I'm more than we've ever needed to. Uh, and, and it's particularly hard in our, um, you know, newsfeed filter, bubbled world because most of the news that we're getting is the most extreme versions of things like things don't get shared that are balanced, right? They get shared like people, when you share something, people assume that that means you agree with what you, what you shared, right. Instead of it just being, here's some information that might be valuable as we're considering whatever the big issues are, if we're having a discussion, maybe consider this and then it's instead of that, it's you, that person that shared it are saying those words and you must think these words, prescribing additional words to whatever is being shared.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And I. and I think that it would be a disservice in some instances to equate different opinions, right? Because to equate them as, as, as equal. And I remember what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. Let me, let me go back. So when I was earlier on in the, in fighting for cannabis legalization, when most people didn't agree with me, right, they'd be like, oh, well we just have a difference of opinion. I think cannabis should be legal, you think it should be illegal, but I said no, we don't have a difference of opinion that you can have difference of opinions about like, you know, peanut butter and Jelly, right? Or like, you know, food, right? But like you want to put me in prison, right? And I think that you shouldn't put me in prison and that's not a basic difference of opinion. These are not, that's not one of us likes eggplant, one of us doesn't, you know.

Speaker 3: Right. And, and so I think there is some real, um, I think, I think when you're talking about oppression and you're talking about persecution, um, there is uh, there is a different dialogue to be had. Um, that being said, it's, you got to meet people where they're at. Even if we're there at is despicable to you. Yeah. I mean, well, look, and sometimes you not going to have the ability to do that. Sometimes you're going to just fly off the handle and you're going to send people further away from you than, than you intended. And like, Hey, that is just part of being human. We're not perfect, we're, we're, we're, we're sensitive. We're, um, you know, I get it. We're emotional beings. I get it, I get it, I get it, I get it. And there's a lot of ways I don't get it right.

Speaker 3: You know, I'm, I'm not the one thereafter. Right. And, but that being said, I'm, I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure that, that in the end, the way to when this is going to be meeting people where they're at and keep in mind that the world didn't change its opinions on things in the last, you know, couple of weeks. Right. Yeah. You know, more people, you know, if, if didn't vote, if didn't vote was on the ballot. You but have one device in a landslide. Right. So most of this country is, it is carrying. And I would, I would say that, that, that, um, that most of the people who voted for either presidential candidate, I would, I would say are, are basically good human beings who have different levels of priorities and they're reachable. They're reachable, but they're not going to be reached by yelling. No. It has to be productive conversation.

Speaker 3: You A, your point being a great one that has to come out of love. What about though, you know, you heard an activist, right? So, so did not vote. It's 50 percent, you know, it was only 25 percent for him. Twenty five percent for her. Right. But that's 50 percent and then the other 50 percent didn't vote. I'm just counting the third party candidates for an easier message not to discount the fee. What is, where, how can we, uh, as voters, um, I in on either side relate to the, did not vote because that's another third conversation that also isn't happening. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well I think a trump will, will, will make the biggest contribution to civic engagement the world has ever seen. Okay. Well, why do you think that? How do you, how do you get to that? Uh, oh, I, I think, I think that, that people, that everything's, everything's.

Speaker 3: Everything's up in the air now, right? Every issue is sort of like, don't jump ball. Who knows what we're going to do, right. Yeah. Whereas everything up until now at least seemed scripted. Sure. Right. It was like, what's the point? Tweedledee and Tweedledum, right? Um, which is the appeal of him obviously. Right, right. I mean, and so, you know, look, it's jump ball now, you know, you've got a every issues that we have no idea how he's going to govern. We have no idea, you know, he's changed his opinions on things so much. It's very tough to, to know how he's actually going to govern and so everything's sort of in the air. And, and, and I think that what this really the silver lining here is that it is really going to, I hope, create an incredible level of civic engagement, um, on, on a wide range of spectrums and on both, on different sides of the spectrum.

Speaker 3: And it's no longer, you know, a binary situation, right? You know, you've got, you've got all the factions in the Republican Party, you've got all the funk factions in the Democratic Party. You've got the libertarians who are like, wow, it's anyone's game now. Absolutely. It is anyone's game now. It's anyone's game. It really inspires people to get engaged. And also what we learned in this election was that we can't trust the pundits and the pollsters and at all at all. And so, uh, I think that makes predictive capabilities more difficult and when you can't predict when there's that much uncertainty got and you got to act right. Um, so I have very little doubt that we will make the best of this situation. And also, uh, you know, the jury is very much out. I think, um, I think particularly on our issue, I think the trump administration is most likely to be, um, excellent.

Speaker 3: I mean, this is fascinating because, let me just interrupt and say with, with Chris Christie, who seems to now be on the way out, and Rudy Giuliani who seems to now be on the way up with those two voices, we were thinking and we were saying before the election that, well, if that happens, that might be very terrible. And then now you're saying something quite different. Well, I, I, so look, trump has been very consistent on the campaign trail that he supports states rights on this issue. Um, he has meant to the 10th amendment, yet he has spoken very, um, uh, well about medical marijuana. I'm not saying I know people. It's helped. Yup. Right. Um, and this is, you know, I would be very interested to hear anyone's actual political chess game argument for how going after cannabis makes any sense no matter where you are on the spectrum.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Okay. I'd be very interested to hear that argument. And because of that, um, I think that, you know, will actually, you know, he was even asked if you, if Chris Christie was your age, would you still have that? And he said absolutely right. So I think it's likely to be part of the deal, right. Part of the deal in, in being age hopefully. Um, and I also see this as a huge opportunity for the Republicans to take it, to take this issue. The Democrats have not really totally, really totally embraced it and they're at a big disadvantage now, right? Because they don't, they're not part of any of the houses and their part. No, no. And they're not. They're, excuse me, they're not in a leadership position. And so for the Republicans, you've got a very interesting opportunity here, right? I mean, they're losing, they're not young people are not supporting Republicans right now, et cetera.

Speaker 3: Um, there is a fight for the soul of that party. Uh, there is, uh, there's this libertarian wing, you know, Gary Johnson got, you know, five, you know, woody got two and a half, three percent of the vote, something like that. But he was pulling out. I mean, he was pulling it. Absolutely. If I. and, and so, you know, I think Hillary Clinton was, could have really inspired the youth vote by taking a platform on cannabis thanks to Bernie was on the platform and had, but I would've made that could've made a difference. And so this is anybody's game. And I think if I know, if I was the Republicans, I'd be wanting to take this issue, go with the 60 percent, why not? Right. And so, yeah, I like to think of it as like, cannabis is a Indiana Jones's hat. Okay. You know, there's just like this wall coming, closing and, and, and just as it was about to close, we killed it in the elections and the hats going to slip underneath the wall.

Speaker 3: The visual on that is perfect. That's amazing. That is wonderful. So then let's, you know, talk to a Montana, North Dakota, Arkansas, Florida. Let's talk to a new folks, entrepreneurs that are now all of a sudden thinking, okay, maybe I am going to get into this whole cannabis thing, right? And uh, for any California person who, uh, didn't quite think that it was okay now. All right, well we're going to have not only medical but also adult use. Maybe I am going to get into this. What? Say You Troy Dayton to the entrepreneur that is listening to this saying, what do I do? Welcome. Come join us. There's lots of room of water's warm. That's it. Bring your checkbook. Well, let's, let's speak to that, right? Because anyone that I've spoken to, um, basically the first thing that they say is it's going to take longer than you think.

Speaker 3: It's going to be more expensive than you think. Yeah. You need more capital than you think you do because you got to play to where the puck's going to be, not where it is. Thanks Wayne Gretzky, right? Yep. Yeah. And in the end. So I think that we're going to see an unbelievable amount of capital poured into this space in the next six to eight months. Sure. And so, you know, if you look at who's in your, you know, who your competitors are and you look to the right, you look to the left and you think, oh, I need a million or I need 2 million or whatever. No, you need, you need eight.

Speaker 3: Uh, it's just, it's going to be intense. I mean it was already intense before, but now it's just gone gangbusters. So I think that because, and because competition is intense because regulations keep getting rewritten because you can't deduct anything right to 80 because it's tough to get a bank. Right. And anything that I'm missing as far as why this is so expensive and why it does cost more than we think it's going to cost. Oh, I mean that's a general rule for all business entrepreneurs. Look at, in order to be an entrepreneur, you need to have a screw loose, right? We need to have, drink your koolaid really like a lot and needed to be able to take a hit. Yeah. And so you, you, you are a best case scenario person, entrepreneurs. That's, that's you have to be A. Yup. Right? There is no other alternative, but investors tend to be like, okay, yeah, I've invested in enough businesses.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I love your hockey stick. Growth curve and everything else. Well, what happens if that doesn't happen? Um, what happens if you know, this license you think you're gonna get is going to take, you know, a year or more to do what happens then with the property that you just bought? What happens? You know, there's a lot of pieces that need to happen in something that's new and so, uh, people, so many unknowns, so many unknown. So I think people really need to really need to plan. I would also say that probably the biggest mistake that entrepreneurs make when they enter the cannabis industry is they try to start a business without knowing much about that business without having much experience in that space. So everybody wants to be a, to start a cultivation or be an infused product manufacturer or a dispensary. Right. And so if someone's like, oh, I want to own a dispensary, is like, Oh, have you run a retail store in a highly regulated environment before?

Speaker 3: No. Okay. Have you? Uh, and then if they want to have an infused product makers, like, Oh, you, did you own a cookie company or a, uh, you know, other consumer package, good company before. Have you been involved in, have you worked for a company that did that? No. Okay. What about if you're going to be cultivator, you're a farmer, you know, and then, and then also you want to, or even a gardener. Right? Right, right. Or people or people who've grown cannabis in really small environments to plants three plants for plants or even or even bigger than that, but, but, but who haven't done it in a regulated environment will have not done it on the scale that we're talking about here, you know, haven't done in a 10,000 square feet for. Exactly. And I think that that, that, that, those are big questions I think people need to need to ask themselves and also to recognize you can't go at this alone, right?

Speaker 3: You're going to have gaps on your team in order to do that. You're gonna need a lot of help and making sure that you get that help. But I think for most people that don't, that aren't, aren't coming from a specialty retail background or consumer packaged goods background or a farming background, there's plenty of space. They should really look at what their experiences and say, how can I deploy this in support of this industry? Because the ancillary businesses are so much more opportunity in that and there's so much more connection that people have to their own, their existing skill set that can be applied in those areas because there are very few industries that don't touch that. Don't touch cannabis there. Say that one more time. There are very few industries that don't have some relation to cannabis. Right? I mean, you go through almost cannabis is retail, cannabis is pharmaceuticals, cannabis is even banking Rhianna, business banking, cannabis, tourism.

Speaker 3: Cannabis is financial services. Cannabis is, is a lifestyle brands. Cannabis is, you know, apparel. Cannabis is everything. Every media, cannabis is, you know, even then when you add hemp and cannabis really is everything. Yeah, exactly. Including concrete, right? Hempcrete. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean the opportunities are just unbelievable. And then then you look, that's just the US know, look what's happening internationally. Oh my God, it's gonna be amazing. It's going to be huge. It's gonna be you're tapping into a uh, a source. I'm, I'm feeling that way as far as international is concerned. I, you know, um, I think that we here have done a good job in kind of staying ahead because you had Uruguay, but they have their own issues. You have Spain and they have their own issues, you know, um, you know, the Netherlands is, is kind of doing a different type of thing.

Speaker 3: You hear stories about Australia, you hear stories about what Germany's going to do and what, you know Great Britain might do and it seems like it feels like the US is still way out in front is you. Do you have alternative? Uh, well it seems like the US is way out in front and it is, but we have this crazy federal state thing. Yeah. Um, which means I think some other countries are going to leapfrog us, which is the only one I didn't bring up just then is Canada, Canada. Unbelievable, amazing, love Canada federal medical and they're on their way to federal adult use. Absolutely soon. Yeah, very soon. And I think it's amazing. And I, it. And it shows what you can do when you don't have federal state conflict. Right? It's one of the reasons why so much investment is going into Canada right now because there isn't that federal state conflict and well, the, uh, as far as the provinces are concerned, not really until you get to British Columbia.

Speaker 3: Right. Then there is a little bit. Oh, I'm not sure. I understand. So a BC is a okay with dispensary's, the city of Vancouver, the city of Vancouver, Victoria, our licensing, those dispensary's, the federal program does not A. Right, right. There's that. Yeah. Yeah. There is that, there is a little bit, there is some federal state conflict, right. But, but it's federal state conflict about just how far to go. Right. That's exactly is a different kind of federal conflict and what we have. That's absolutely. Um, and so I think, I think that the US has been the, the biggest exporter of the drug war around the world for the last, you know, 30, 40 years. And I'm the fact that like we're leading the way from the inside. Yeah, right. It's just, it's such poetic, just poetic justice and it. And, and what it causes is, I think, you know, it's going to start being, you were here, you know, uh, Columbia and Australia and Israel and Spain and Uruguay and I mean it's just like Jamaica and communities just like go around and it's like it's happening.

Speaker 3: But Chile, I mean, things are just sort of like percolating and, and moving pretty fast. And then Mexico, I mean, Mexico could be really interesting. I've, I've had the opportunity to spend some time with Vincent de Fox a few times to talk about this former. Yeah, sure. Of course. Mexico and um, you know, he's really put a lot of his energy to this issue and has really made a big impact on it. And I think, you know, is one of the thing with California going legal. I mean it is really going to create an interesting dynamic with Mexico, which I think moves them in the direction as well. Yeah. And, and you know, uh, uh, what does that do? Because we, we saw immediately that the cartel business went all the way down with California coming on. It's going to come down even further. If we're able to get Mexico on board as North America as far as the black market, then, you know, seemingly disappears.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean mostly right. I mean, I think, you know, we need to be careful with our, um, with our um, uh, uh, we need to be careful with our tax structures and you know, eventually we're going to need to change federal law so there can be interstate commerce, um, you know, look, as long as there are states in this country that don't have a regulated market for adult use cannabis, there's going to be architects. Right. Alright. So we're, we're feeling pretty good about where we are. We're feeling pretty good about maybe finding a way to talk to each other. I think we discussed that, which I think that that's a big, huge thing. I think that, that, you know, yeah, in, in the industry, but also just as Americans and as human beings. And it's not even just American speaking internationally. I mean, you know, this sentiment of I'm kind of this populous sentiment, uh, seems to abound all over the world.

Speaker 3: And, you know, while we're doing this, let's make sure we're all talking to each other because otherwise, you know, where are we? Right. Absolutely. You know, you, you remember the 19 eighties? Vaguely they were, they were from the nineties were really fun. You remember the nineties? I do. Yeah. That was before to a nine slash 11 and all that. And uh, I'd like to get back to the nineties. It seemed like there was a more open dialogue with everybody to everybody from everybody. I'm sure people would disagree with me, but, uh, but that's what I think. Um, it, we've come to the final three questions. Of course I've already asked you the final three questions. And so I'll only ask you the one question that we ask on a second interview, which is the same as the last question around the first interview, which is on the soundtrack of your life. Name one track one song that's got to be on there. I remember what you answered the first two. Let me see. Oh shoot, I should've had something prepared for this.

Speaker 3: And while troy was thinking, if you, uh, if you want to go back and be entertained, go ahead and listen to, uh, not only what troy says his song is, he sinks his song. Oh Man, what is. Well, it's, it's funny. Uh, I, uh, so we had our big arcview event shorthand I the last couple of days. And uh, I always, we come up, we'd have music, everybody comes up with music, right? And I'm on stage a couple times throughout the thing. So you have the same song that plays every time I'm there and I was originally going to come up to lose yourself by M and M, right? Um, but you know, that song was about like, you know, like having a chance to triumph, right? But after these eight and nine victories as well, all of these like eye of the tiger lose yourself. Like these kinds of songs are very much about like, like getting ready for the fight in order to win because you've got this great chance.

Speaker 3: And I felt like it was important to have a song that was like, move it forward, you know, acknowledged that we'd, that we'd won and that and that we were strong. And uh, and so I came up to Katy Perry's roar. Wow. Yeah. Which was just like, it was kind of funny. Sure. But if you actually listen to the lyrics, it's, it's really, it's, it's really a triumphant song and it's, it's any lyric just because you know, of course, no of the song done. I don't hold it near and dear. But to understand your mentality and the way that you're thinking about, oh my God, how's it go? Have you held me down? But I got up already brushing off the dust. You hear my voice, you hear that sound like thunder going to shake your ground. You held me down. But I got up, get ready because I've had enough.

Speaker 3: I see it all. I see it now I got the eye of the tiger of fighter dancing through the fire because I'm a champion. And you're going to hear me roar louder. Louder than a lion because I'm a champion. And you're going to hear me roar and I feel like that was, we did as a movement over the last few months. Dennis, really important to remember that we did this for decades of work and people that came before me, people that came are going to come after us. I mean the, this is the moment where we will remember for I'm really fighting and you know, look for most of my adult life people told me I was silly that I, they laughed at me when I told him what I wanted to do. Oh, that's. So, that's so adorable, troy. You know, and now it's like we were winning. Well we, I think we've passed the tipping point now we just need the other side of the head. Now we're on the other side of the mountain. It's, we still need to keep driving down that mountain. But it's so nice to go down to go down a mountain with the, you know, on the other side. It's kind of kind of fun. It's easier. Yeah. But it's not easy. It's just easier. Right. Exactly. Different problems. That's it. Troy Dayton, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. All right, and there you have troy Dayton

Speaker 1: and earlier on. Ryan, thank you to both of them for joining us for Ryan. Not An easy conversation to have and for Troy. It's always good to hear troy's positivity, so very much appreciate him, very much. Appreciate you. Thanks so much for listening.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.