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Ep.221: Kristi Knbolich & Dennis Depaolo

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.221: Kristi Knbolich & Dennis Depaolo

Ep.221: Kristi Knbolich & Dennis Depaolo

Kristi Knoblich, Kiva Confections & Dennis Depaolo, Curio Wellness

Cultivator turned multiple license holder Dennis Depaolo joins us and takes us through the fact that there is high quality cannabis being produced on the east coast. He shares that he went to school to study plant science to prepare himself for a career in cannabis. He discusses his early days as a cultivator in ME and his path to licenses in Maryland, Massachusetts…and hopefully Pennsylvania. Kristi Knoblich then joins us from Kiva to share her journey which began way back, when there really wasn’t edible product on the shelves in northern California. Testing from day one, Kristi takes us through the changes made regarding information shared on packaging, product assortment and the true connection she feels that must be made between consumer or patient and plant.

Transcript:

Speaker 1: Dennis apollo and Christy knobloch. Cultivator turned multiple, license holder, dentist to paolo joins us and takes us through the fact that there is high quality cannabis being produced on the east coast. He shares that he went to school to study plant medicine to prepare himself for a career in cannabis. He discusses his early days as a cultivator in Maine and his path, the licenses in Maryland, Massachusetts, and hopefully Pennsylvania christie knobloch than joins us from kiva to share her journey which began way back when there really wasn't edible products on the shelves in northern California. Testing from day one, christie takes us through the changes made regarding information shared on packaging, product assortment, and the true connection she feels that must be made between customer or patient and plant. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host seth aDler. Check us out on social with the handle can economy. That's two ends of the word economy. Dennis to pAolo and christie novolin

Speaker 3: with the nooks and crannies. Of course. Absolutely right, so I'm pepper. Actually. No, that's. You've got to respect the egg. Dennis, you got to respect the plant. You're a cultivator dentist. apollo. Thank you for joining us. You are a cultivator, aren't you? Absolutely. You know how this whole thing works. Some would say. Yeah. All right. Well, let's, beCause you and I really don't know each other. Um, you're in Massachusetts, right? you're in the northeast for our folKs on the west coast. The people that listen, they don't think that real cannabis is grown in the northeast. So let's start there. Yeah. The northeast is my territory for growing cannabis from Maryland to Maine. Um, have

Speaker 4: businesses in three states right now where are cultivating some of the finest quality cannabis on the planet earth.

Speaker 3: So we're going to have to ask you to prove it in, in some way. Uh, you know, this is audio, so there'll be no produCt, but when you say some of the finest cannabis, you know, the, the folks in the emerald triangle say, well, you know, beat our environment. Uh, it's perfect for, you know, making what we make, um, you know, how are you doing it in these tough climates?

Speaker 4: There is some truth to that. Yeah, it's hard to replicate a northwest us by the sea coast up there and that's what's known as the emerald triangle, but nowadays we're growing this stuff indoors as well where we can fully control the climate for everything, temperature, humidity, light intensity, airflow to really create the perfect environment to grow any plan.

Speaker 3: And so you set it up and knock it down. It's a continuous harvest and everybody's happy, right?

Speaker 4: More or less. Yeah, it is a science. There's a science to it, so there's no magic to it. You know, it's all about genetics and environment,

Speaker 3: but uh, what if I care about organic product? Dennis?

Speaker 4: Yeah. Organic is a way, one way of growing cannabis, which we do as well, I believe in growing plants using any method under the sun. Veganic organic. Hydroponic. Did you say your name? Yeah.

Speaker 3: Oh, I thought you said be ganache and I will if you're requesting that, but it's veganic is what you were saying. So I can have indoor cannabis that is organic and that's based on the, uh, oil you're using and, and nutrients and such.

Speaker 4: Absolutely.

Speaker 3: All right, good. We just need you to, you know, kinda give us the bone of feed is uPfront when you say a Maryland to, to main, um, let's, uh, let's do that. You're one of these guys that got one of these licenses

Speaker 4: in Maryland. The teams I've been working with have been able to acquire licenses and Maryland and Massachusetts so far. We're going for a license in Pennsylvania as well. They just opened up the application process about two days ago. Um, and I've been working in Maine for the past two years as a director of cultivation for multiple dispensary's.

Speaker 1: Dennis apollo and Christy knobloch. Cultivator turned multiple, license holder, dentist to paolo joins us and takes us through the fact that there is high quality cannabis being produced on the east coast. He shares that he went to school to study plant medicine to prepare himself for a career in cannabis. He discusses his early days as a cultivator in Maine and his path, the licenses in Maryland, Massachusetts, and hopefully Pennsylvania christie knobloch than joins us from kiva to share her journey which began way back when there really wasn't edible products on the shelves in northern California. Testing from day one, christie takes us through the changes made regarding information shared on packaging, product assortment, and the true connection she feels that must be made between customer or patient and plant. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host seth aDler. Check us out on social with the handle can economy. That's two ends of the word economy. Dennis to pAolo and christie novolin

Speaker 3: with the nooks and crannies. Of course. Absolutely right, so I'm pepper. Actually. No, that's. You've got to respect the egg. Dennis, you got to respect the plant. You're a cultivator dentist. apollo. Thank you for joining us. You are a cultivator, aren't you? Absolutely. You know how this whole thing works. Some would say. Yeah. All right. Well, let's, beCause you and I really don't know each other. Um, you're in Massachusetts, right? you're in the northeast for our folKs on the west coast. The people that listen, they don't think that real cannabis is grown in the northeast. So let's start there. Yeah. The northeast is my territory for growing cannabis from Maryland to Maine. Um, have

Speaker 4: businesses in three states right now where are cultivating some of the finest quality cannabis on the planet earth.

Speaker 3: So we're going to have to ask you to prove it in, in some way. Uh, you know, this is audio, so there'll be no produCt, but when you say some of the finest cannabis, you know, the, the folks in the emerald triangle say, well, you know, beat our environment. Uh, it's perfect for, you know, making what we make, um, you know, how are you doing it in these tough climates?

Speaker 4: There is some truth to that. Yeah, it's hard to replicate a northwest us by the sea coast up there and that's what's known as the emerald triangle, but nowadays we're growing this stuff indoors as well where we can fully control the climate for everything, temperature, humidity, light intensity, airflow to really create the perfect environment to grow any plan.

Speaker 3: And so you set it up and knock it down. It's a continuous harvest and everybody's happy, right?

Speaker 4: More or less. Yeah, it is a science. There's a science to it, so there's no magic to it. You know, it's all about genetics and environment,

Speaker 3: but uh, what if I care about organic product? Dennis?

Speaker 4: Yeah. Organic is a way, one way of growing cannabis, which we do as well, I believe in growing plants using any method under the sun. Veganic organic. Hydroponic. Did you say your name? Yeah.

Speaker 3: Oh, I thought you said be ganache and I will if you're requesting that, but it's veganic is what you were saying. So I can have indoor cannabis that is organic and that's based on the, uh, oil you're using and, and nutrients and such.

Speaker 4: Absolutely.

Speaker 3: All right, good. We just need you to, you know, kinda give us the bone of feed is uPfront when you say a Maryland to, to main, um, let's, uh, let's do that. You're one of these guys that got one of these licenses

Speaker 4: in Maryland. The teams I've been working with have been able to acquire licenses and Maryland and Massachusetts so far. We're going for a license in Pennsylvania as well. They just opened up the application process about two days ago. Um, and I've been working in Maine for the past two years as a director of cultivation for multiple dispensary's.

Speaker 3: What were the key lessons learned? You know, as far as growing cannabis that's actually going to patients in illegal cannabis? Uh, you know, a marketplace.

Speaker 4: oh, the lesson learned from a cultivation standpoint is designing your cultivation facilities properly, you know, to reduce any type of contamination, pests, insects, mildew. It is a medicine. So you want to keep it as clean as possible.

Speaker 3: And you said that it, uh, it wasn't magic, but there is an art to it. I've been told that the, the plant knows who the cultivator is and sometimes the plant doesn't get along with the cultivator

Speaker 4: fair statement cultivated or doesn't know what he's doing. It's not magic. It's science so that plants do behave differently. There are different types of cannabis plants. I would call it an ico types. People say sativa, endeca. I would argue that, but that's a long story that I don't want to get into what they all have evolved in acclimated to natural conditions where they usually grow. So you have to replicate those conditions to make the plant thrive and be able to express their genetic potential.

Speaker 3: Express its genetic potential as though it has a resume. I love it. Alright. So a canoe and others up in, up in Maine, um, you, you kind of figured out that you knew what you were doing as far as growing legal cannabis. Um, what was the next step? And we'll go back to the ultimate history. You know, when you, uh, your formative years later if we can get to it. But, uh, you know, you got all these licenses in the east, we got to talk about it. When was the next step after Maine,

Speaker 4: after I was applying both in Maryland and Massachusetts were able to solidify licenses there. Um, but it's, uh, it's a long process. Anyone that's getting into it should understand that it takes years to go through the application process and deal with all the red tape and the politics. So really work hard and be patient. What I would recommend,

Speaker 3: work hard and be patient to be a good guy. That's fantastic. I, uh, you know, you seem like this, this nice guy, uh, you're a cultivator yet. You understand the plant, but you also, uh, have other experience. In other words, what experience did you draw from in, uh, you know, getting the Maryland license together. Let's start there as far as you know, your own experience, your network, how, you know, what levers did you have to push and pull to, to make that thing go to speak further to what your point is, which is it's not easy to get this license

Speaker 4: it to be working with a good group of smart people that really know what they're doing and are true stakeholders in the industry. Um, you need to be involved in it to go to legislative meetings, town meetings, gather local support. Um, it, some political connections definitely hurt. Being well capitalized is huge, especially nowadays a few years back, five, 10 years back, you didn't need much capital grille for where these license. Now it's costing millions of dollars to get these companies offering going. And that's what the state wants to say to that. You're well capitalized, you know, you have a science or research background because you're trying to produce a medicine here, not just growing cannabis recreationally. Speaking about the medicinal market, sure speak. Um, so if you're under capitalized, there's a lot of restrictions with your build out, the quality of the staff, the quality of advisors or consultants that you're able to obtain to build the best company possible.

Speaker 3: There you go. And you mentioned these town halls, these, these, uh, you know, city meetings. Um, I, you know, I like to urge people to do that. What actually happens, I mean, I will say this, I've been to a few that they are not necessarily incendiary places. In other words, they're, they're a little slug. Well, you might call it a little boring, but, but what happens within those meetings, you know, what are you getting done and why are they so important

Speaker 4: mean the state will hold public hearings, give the citizens a chance to speak up. Um, so I would recommend anyone that is a stakeholder to get up there and voice their opinions on, you know, why it should be allowed in the state. Um, you know, maybe the best way is to produce it, are the best ways to get it into the patient's hands. Um, and just try to have a voice because this is such a new industry that no one really knows what they're doing here, especially the legislators. Um, so it's our job to go tHere and to educate them as well. I'm the, one of the biggest parts of my jobs is even thought of my cultivating. I'm an educator. Um, and really that's first and foremost is just educating everyone just on my own team, a note on a legislative reviews and I'm just trying to push the sciences forward because at the end of the day that's what really matters.

Speaker 3: Yeah. Within your circle of influence, if you will, if I may borrow a phrase. So essentially you see yourself as an educator with whoever you meet. Is that fair? Yes. Okay. And as far as your team, fantastic. Okay. You're in business as far as legislators you just mentioned they really don't know as much as they could. And then what about the general public? Will you bother yourself? You're such a busy guy, but if you run into somebody at the grocery store,

Speaker 4: absolutely. Um, you know, I'll talk to people at the grocery stores. Sure of a holding for informative sessions, uh, for town members to come in, potential patients, um, you know, seems like the younger crowd is more up to date on it, but the older crowd who has lived through the drug war, you know, kind of has a stigma against it, so they've been misinformed for years. So it's important to get out there and put some good information in their hands and let them decide for themselves with a real scientifically backed up data.

Speaker 3: And you, you know, you're, you're holding your own meetings, you're going to these uh, uh, these meetings as well. You're explaining what the value is. Um, you know, besides information in education, what are you really missing by? Not necessarily holding your own because you've got the licenses, you're doing your business, you know, if you're, if you're looking to get in or if you're in and you're not going to these meetings, what would you tell us you are missing by not going to town halls, not going to public hearings,

Speaker 4: no. Socializing and meeting other people that are also stakeholders in the industry and how you can collaborate with those people. A good friend of mine, nialta manna, who is the ceo of mann and molecular sciences, also the person that put us in touch, also the person that put us in touch. I met him at a department of public health hearing in worcester, Massachusetts, and uh, you know, we made a connection and if it wasn't for going to those meetings, uh, I might not even know to this day become great friends and share great ideas with research and he's been able to create a really interesting transdermal patch that is used with cannabis.

Speaker 3: If notHing else, you and I would not be speaking today if you didn't go to that meeting. Uh, you know, uh, so there's empirical evidence. Okay, fantastic. We get it. The meetings you keep bringing up this science. Um, why do you keep bringing up this science? And uh, I'm kidding. What I'm trying to get at is, uh, you know, besides just simply being a, a, a farmer, a cultivator, you've also got a few, a few other tools in the belt there.

Speaker 4: Yeah. So my background is in the plant sciences, tend to graduate degree from umass amherst plant biology. I studied plant genetics and molecular biology and my interest was cannabis going into it. Honestly, obviously I could not study cannabis at umass event though they were trying to obtain the dea license for the past 12 years now. UM, and that was turned down, but still being in that environment and studying plant genetics and nutrient uptake, it, it's directly relatable.

Speaker 3: Okay. So tomatoes, uh, what else would you tell him? What are the most closely related, uh, uh, things that you studied that are in cannabis that act like cannabis,

Speaker 4: hops, that is used for the production of beer is the closest species related to cannabis. Same genus. Kenneth bc, um, other plants, you know, tomatoes for instance, like I mentioned also produced tricombs and turpines. So we can use other plants to study tricoMbs for example, instead of using cannabis and will get an idea about tracker in production and terpene production and oil production. Um, that is also directly relatable to Canada

Speaker 3: as far as the tomatoes are concerned. I believe we're on the stems. Is that about right?

Speaker 4: Yep. The stems.

Speaker 3: Alright. And then just bring us through the one on one just in case on tricombs.

Speaker 4: Uh, so, you know, tricoMbs are small hair like sells groups of cells that produce a essential oils pretty much so, um, you know, when you rub up against a track home, it opens up and volatile compounds called terpenes are released into the air, which is what you smell and that is kind of what you're harvesting a when you're growing cannabis or any other crop, wherever you're extracting terpenes.

Speaker 3: It's the good stuff. So there you go. Okay. Now he's not only a cultivator enabled to talk about it, he actually has a degree in it, so People are liking you more and more dentists as we go. you know what I mean? Um, so, you know, a while you're still in Maine, you're applying for the Maryland license. You explained kind of how that came to be. I'm also Massachusetts, uh, same team, different teams. How does it all work?

Speaker 4: A different team? Two different teams go in here. How sell our work.

Speaker 3: You don't have to, you know, you don't have to tell us every, everybody's name and middle initial, but uh, in other words, are the Maryland people a more Maryland based in the messages people more massaChusetts based or how did you kind of develop a two different teams? So if I'm an entrepreneur and I'm a would be business owner or if I am a current business owner and I'm looKing for another state, you know, how did you differentiate between the two teams is really what I'm looking at or for

Speaker 4: consulting, like I said, I like to educate people, so I'm also a consultant in the industry, so I'm aware and connected with other people in other states and what they're doing and just keep up to date on the application process. Like I said, go to the local meetings and meet people, interact. You're going gonna interact. I'm a plant biologist, but I go to these meetings. I interact with businessmen but more capital, more political connections are interested in getting into the business but know nothing about cultivation. Right? So it's a real good way to link up and that's how I was able to link up with different people in different states.

Speaker 3: Is curio the name of the business in Maryland and Massachusetts are. Are there two different business names?

Speaker 4: A curio wellness is in baltimore county, Maryland. I'm the one in Massachusetts. The nonprofit name is Kem organics or doing business as berkshire roots are located in pittsfield, Massachusetts.

Speaker 3: You're and you're very close to tanglewood?

Speaker 4: Yes, I'm actually looking at it at my hotel window right now.

Speaker 3: Alright. so that's Massachusetts. That's, that's fantastic. It sounds like that one's getting going. Pennsylvania. How, how close are we? If, if they just opened it up. How much of your work have you already done? So when you know maybe other states come online. I can, I can be prepared. So they just opened up, you said two weeks ago,

Speaker 4: two days ago, two days ago. Published some preliminary regulations to give people guidelines as they're going through the application process.

Speaker 3: Okay. So they opened up two days ago. They give folks a preliminary, you know, kind of understanding of what they're looking for. How much of your work is already done?

Speaker 4: Well, we have assembled the team already and that's about it. Looking for locations, you know, local support, you know, the whole nine. It's a long process. It's going to take about a year to really pull it all together. So we're just at the beginning stages.

Speaker 3: Got it. It's a year long. I already do have my team though. I know who's on the team. I know what each, each of us generally is going to do and be responsible for.

Speaker 4: You need a diverse team, so you want someone that is a professional business, you aren't strong lawyers. Political connections. Make sure they have capital raised ahead of time is a good thing. How easy is that to do? That's not. It depends. It depends on who you know. Yeah.

Speaker 3: Okay. Let's, let's just go back to when you were in the shoes of being the regular guy cultivator. Um, how did you develop relationships with folks that did have a capital that would eventually kind of allow you to not only apply for these licenses but, but get them now? What kind of networking did you do there? I'm sure that that wasn't a town halls, right?

Speaker 4: No, that wasn't a town halls. And you know, first you go to friends and family, if you know anyone that has money that knows you and trust you to send it to you.

Speaker 3: Uncle joe would be good.

Speaker 4: Uncle joe would be great if he has a lot of times our family doesn't have money come from. But then you would reach out to other investors, angel investors potentially from local areas. Yes. To get out there and know someone. uh, so for our pittsfield group, for instance, our ceo, his father has been involved with angel investors and uh, getting financing together for multiple businesses of all different types so he had some experience and some connections there. So just, you know, keep asking around. Really just search high and low wherever you can.

Speaker 3: Leave no stone unturned.

Speaker 4: That's all right.

Speaker 3: So, uh, as far as your, uh, your day right now, you've got the busiNess in Maryland, you've got the business in Massachusetts, you're applying for a Pennsylvania, I mean, what, what's uh, how many hours are we putting in here, dennis?

Speaker 4: Probably a of 70 to 80 hours a week.

Speaker 3: Roughly double what a, what folks think of when they think of nine to five with respeCt to dolly parton. Of course

Speaker 4: it's typical of any startup startup. Most startups fail as you know, and it takes a lot of work to get them going. So if you're not willing to put in double time minimum, you know, I wouldn't even dream about it.

Speaker 3: Well, so Then here come the formative years because my question to you was, you know, were you always a nose to the grindstone? I'm going to put in 110 percent no matter what. All the time. Is that something that was built in from day one?

Speaker 4: Yeah, I personally, I do. I like doing things right the first time, working hard, really understanding of the nuanCes of all the details before assembling them together. Um, so the more you put in, the more you get out. So.

Speaker 3: and then detail orientation, is that from your mom or from your dad?

Speaker 4: Neither. I think that's self taught. self taught and no offense mom.

Speaker 3: No, no, none. None. None. None taken on her behalf. But what I'm getting at is, here's little dennis, right? Maybe 10 years old, and you know, where does that come from, if not from your mother, your father,

Speaker 4: from a passion. Actually, it's specifically for cannabis in this instance. You know, when I was young, I just developed this passion. I saw cannabis has this thing in 1996. I was 14 years old, you know, I knew what cannabis was. Um, and I kind of was questioning why wasn't legal, even though I was so young and I saw a California for proposition two, six, 2:15, I'm legalizing medical use. And then I thought to myself, well, yeah, there is a medical value to this. I want to promote that as well. And that's why I went to school. I worked hard. I went to graduate school that were in plant genetics and biology. It was all for cannabis and to promote a good name around the canvas plant and hopes that one day a, the stigma would be taken away.

Speaker 3: Look at you. You're perfect. That's exactly. Uh, you know, the, the, the kind of thing that uh, we know will be coming into the industry now for the most part, you know, obviously for the past 30, 40 years and, and more, um, it's been folks that have had to kind of learn along the way. Uh, you seem to be just young enough to have kind of built this whole thing into your education, which is great. Yes. Yes you are, you are lucky. And we're lucky to have you, dennis. So because we're not sitting together, we'll make this a short one and I'll ask you the three final questions. I'll tell you what they are and then I'll ask you them in order. All right. All right. First one is what has most surprised you in cannabis? The second is what has most surprised you in life? And the third question is on the soundtrack of dennis's life named one track, one song that's got to be on. So that's either the easiest or toughest question that I'll ask you depending on who you are. But first things first, what has most surprised you in cannabis? You might've already touched on it as far as cannabis, the industry, the plant, take it however you want.

Speaker 4: What most surprised me coming in undergraduate school and joining the industry was lack of structure, structure, facility design. So, you know, I walked into some scary situations, not to mention any names, but um, and they were producing this medicine in what was an environment that was very sub quality, um, and it was really disturbing to me as a plant scientist and someone that understood environmental controls and have been growing plants and you considering growth chambers for years and then to walk into some of these warehouses built out with wood and particle board. And it was, it was just a mess. So that was the biggest surprise to me.

Speaker 3: How much has that changed? You know, I'm obviously not. You're not talking about who you're talking about as far as bad examples. We're not going to talk about you as far as good examples, but just generally as far as the tours and the people that you meet, how much has that changed?

Speaker 4: Leaps and bounds. You know, the professionalism of the teams and people that are acquiring these licenses these days, as you know, second to none. It's really about quality now days, five, 10 years ago when the industry was just getting a foothold, especially here on the east coast. Um, no one had anything to reference too in terms of quality or production standards, but you're saying the regulations increase everyday, especially here in Massachusetts, here in Maryland. Um, and that's helping drive more seriousness to this industry.

Speaker 3: Yeah, no, absolutely. We've got every kind of person and now we even have suits. Yes. Alright. What has most surprised you in life? You admitted, you know, that you're in, you know, as far as the grand scheme of things, you're not too old, but what has surprised you most in life so far?

Speaker 4: the ability to make progress. If you work hard and believe in something. I think if you're passionate about it, you know, coming out of grad school, you know, I was an academic my whole life really for 29 years and I was an academic. So when I joined the industry, I didn't know what effect I would have, um, and just putting, keeping my nose down and working hard and believing and doing things the right way, um, has really opened up doors left and right for me. Um, so it's just about working hard and believe in what you're doing.

Speaker 3: I love it. I love the answer. Let me ask you this because you've got the degree, right? So it's not like you're, uh, working on, on just hustle. Uh, you also have the intellect, but percentage wise as far as what, uh, what helps you, um, can you break down a percentage between hustle and intellect?

Speaker 4: They go hand in hand really. And that leads to effIciency. I find myself working very efficiently, efficiently because I have the intellect and I worked so hard. That is a huge thing in this industry. Um, efficiency. They, those two really go hand in hand with the other.

Speaker 3: Let me make sure I understand why you say efficiency is a huge thing in this industry. Um, I think it's because cannabis, here's our dog ears. We are moving so quickly. Um, so, you know, being efficient, getting it right the first time and being efficient about it, I would imagine that's why it'S so important. Specifically here. Is thAt what you're talking about? Are you talking about something else?

Speaker 4: Yeah, from a business perspective and it pays off quick if you do things right and do them the first time.

Speaker 3: There you go. Alright. So that's fantastic. Uh, we, we now have at least a decent understanding of dentists. Um, what really drives the point home though about who you are is what song you Choose. So on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on there.

Speaker 4: It took me by surprise,

Speaker 3: by the way, you can download a cannabis economy, the podcast on itunes or google play.

Speaker 4: Excellent. Yeah, I'm a big bob marley fan. Three little birds.

Speaker 3: Oh sure. It's sitting on my doorstep singing sweet songs. Melodies a pure and true. This is my message to you, right? everything's going to be all right. Is basically what that song says. That's correct. dennis, uh, appreciate your time. I know you're a busy guy. You're between three, four states, whatever it is, keep going, keep being a scientist to keep being an activist and keep being a businessman. Man. You got it all. You got it all lined up the right way.

Speaker 4: Thanks a lot of sense. I appreciate your time.

Speaker 1: You got it. This episode is supported by Brandon Branch. Brenda branch provides intellectual property legal services with a focus on the cannabis industry. Shabnam malik and amanda commonly founded Brenda Branch in 2015 to provide nimble cost effective intellectual property services. Brand branch is proud To offer high quality services with flexible billing arrangements, including flat fees and monthly subscription plans to meet the needs of early and mid stage companies. Brand new branch helps companies with branding creative content and compliance. Go to brenda branch.com/can economy for more detail. Exactly. Perfect. Knob link is from Germany, from Germany. Adler means eagle in Germany. What does novelty? Yeah,

Speaker 3: garlic. Oh wow. Like a spin on garlic. I love too.

Speaker 5: I always put in cooking a little bit more and I always put in too much garlic, which is just enough for me. Right. As long as whoever you're reading is also eating the same amount. Exactly. Those are girlfriend meals where we're both eating the same, you know, it was early in our relationship. She established that she's like, I'll eat this, but you also have to eat this. So. Alright. So besides garlic, there's kiva. Kiva is one of the better known, let's be honest, brand names in the industry for us to not have sit sat down yet is surprising. So let's dive in on you and kiva. Was this kiva thing your idea? Actually, I have a business partner and now has been. So um, no, I can't take all the credit. His idea. yeah, he's, I like to call him the mastermind behind the brand. So um, yeah we got starteD early on because there was an opportunity to do cannabis edibles better than what was currently available in the market currently available. Being what year

Speaker 6: being on. So we started develoPing the brand and the concept in 2010, early 2010 and we sold our first bar at the end of the year 2010.

Speaker 5: Two. Great. Question to jim at south bay Crc in santa fe. So walking that back a little bit, where do you come into the relationship with him? How much of a conceptioN was already there? Um, you know, if you were there that day, we sold our first ball friend

Speaker 6: scott and I met long before kiva was a sparkle in anyone's eyes. So we met in photography school and then graduated. I was from the bay, the bay area. He's from san diego, so we decided to come up here and I'm afterschool tried to start photography businesses. The economy was tanking and um, so we had to pivot and look for creative ways to make money outside of the photography world and the restaurant industry. So, um, decided to do a cultivation and our garden shed and uh, turned out we weren't farmers and I was going to be harder to differentiate with a, with a cultivated product. Um, especially at that time, there were nO branded flower concepts being I'm being joined with, so edibles kind of phased it or, um, sort of came, came to light as a way to differentiate with a huge opportunity, right. There just weren't Any edible products that we were.

Speaker 5: Nothing, nothing on the shelves is what I've been sitting on the shelves

Speaker 6: was catered to somebody like us or like most of the consumers out there, right, that go to starbucks shop at target, have an iphone, right. It wasn't anything that was speaking to us. Nothing tested at all. Required you to be extremely experimental, which we of that, uh, of that variety.

Speaker 5: All right, fair enough. That's the quick version. Let's, let's dIve in on this. Let's talk about this whole photography thing. What's that about? So you're from the. Well, you're from the bay area, right? Where,

Speaker 6: um, so I grew up in san leandro, went to school in castro valley. Um, since

Speaker 5: when you went to school that you mean high school or do you mean high school in castro valley. And what was, what was christy into in high school? What was that about? Well, I was a cheerleader. You're one of those. I see, I see. And uh, yeah. You know what, it's funny because I come inside, outside, outside, inside. Is that what it is or what do you mean? I don't know. I think that's a cheerleader team. Something like that. That's our customer. That sounds about right. What was the name of the team that we were the castor valley trojans or the trojans? Of course you can. Yeah, you can make all kinds of jokes at that, uh, at that mascot. Why? See now my mind just goes to anti spartan. That's, that's all I'm historical. That's all I care about. Right. All right. So the, the cheerleader also into what? Yes.

Speaker 6: So, um, so funny, uh, so I've come from a culture, a family culture, and just being in the bay area of acceptance of cannabis so

Speaker 5: early on when you were a kid, what the gel was? Yeah.

Speaker 6: SAy so. Um, and my family is, they're huge supporters of what we do and they are excited about the cannabis world. So cannabis was in my growing up, right? So I was smoking cannabis long before it was before, I probably should've been and had boyfriends that were probably doing things they shouldn't have been with them.

Speaker 5: CaNnabis cultivating, cultivating off the line here, keep it honest.

Speaker 6: So it was something that I grew up with it. I was just very comfortable with. So when I'm scott.

Speaker 5: So skipping ahead, hold on one second. Yeah, no, this is fine. So you, you graduate from high school, you did go to college. So I went to photography school. So this was the school that we chose now where does this photography thing come from?

Speaker 6: So, um, I did a start a photography in high school, had family members that were photographers as well and it was sort of documenting family history and just documenting creatively was part of my upbringing.

Speaker 5: So fit family history. So when we had like family over christy's got the camera out, everyone's going to get some stuff done, like portraits or you know, candid or a little bit of both black and white color.

Speaker 6: A little bit of both I can say. Um, and that really comes from my, uh, my grandpa when girl, when my grandparents or my parents were going up, they were always filming on their super eight video cameras. So that's like a common family thing. And you were doing still? Yes. Yeah, I gravitated towards still, I have a cousin that still am video, another cousin that does still, I ended up.

Speaker 5: So this is a novel type, the novel type Deal. Okay. And then you also said a little bit creative. so what were we going out and hiking and um, yeah,

Speaker 6: well, creative. I guess from an art standpoint, photography standpoint, I'm just, uh, I guess there is a level of creativity that just comes along with being a photographer, right? By nature you're taking something that doesn't exist. Oftentimes in photography you're starting with a black room, right? Geography is all about capturing light, so you're taking nothing and you're adding light to it to create something. So there's a lot of creativity involved from that element.

Speaker 5: So I have limited, uh, you know, knowledge in this space, but ansul adams comes to mind. Is that a, a hero of yours? Definitely. Because whY,

Speaker 6: um, because he was an absolute creator and master of his craft and I'm extremely patient. Uh, the work that Angela Adams did took a lot of innovation and, and patients.

Speaker 5: Tell us how for us non photographers.

Speaker 6: Sure. Yeah. So what ansell adams did, um, I think he coined. It's called the zone. And so your, your camera only has a certain dynamic range that it can capture. So when you look out, when you're inside your office building and you look outside, the office is dark and the outside is very light. Your eye is excellent, your brain is excellent at capturing very bright, bright and very dark darks. But a camera is not. So when you, uh, when you shoot into the sun, take somebody's picture into the sun, their faces dark and the sun is his info, or is that is captured at the right exposure. So you only, you hAve to choose with the camera quality. So Angela Adams was a master at capturing dark darks and light lights all by playing with exposure time, all those different elements.

Speaker 5: AperTure. Yep, exactly. Shutter speed and aperture. So basically it took him forever. He had to stand very still and then there you have your beautiful and so adam thing that's on your wall and you don't even know why it's so beautiful. Yeah,

Speaker 6: exactly. And it looks real. It looks like nothing you've ever seen before.

Speaker 5: Well, is it fake? That's always the question. Is that what he was? What was he messing around here?

Speaker 6: No, I think it was absolutely intentional. I think it probably experimental in the beginning, but extremely intentional.

Speaker 5: Yeah. But those are real pictures. Those are photographs as your point. They're not photo shopped by any means. No. I mean I think that was before the whole photoshop phenomenon shopped in a with the darkroom equipment. There we go. Alright. So now and you know, we'll, we'll lay off of this because we got to get to cannabis, but as far as the dark room is concerned, I, you know, took a couple photography classes and I do remember thinking that I was making a beautiful photographs. Right. You make a photograph if I'm not mistaken. Uh, and then I would get to the dark room and it would, it would seemingly all fall apart there. That's, that's, that's very possible, right? Absolutely. Yeah. So what's the key in the dark room and then we'll get off this. Keep it dark. Light leaks. You're going to have problems.

Speaker 5: That's the issue is what you're saying. Yeah. So stopped going out for breaks and coming back in. You're killing it. Your phone don't do. You can't, can't introduce any light into the dark room. That's a good place to start in the white room with black curtains, et cetera. Okay. So there's the photographer. Okay. Now this is great. We've got an artist, christy, she's walking around. It's part of the family. So then here comes in mr. Mr. Right? And was he talented as a photographer? You can tell us if he wasn't. Yeah, he was, he was a better photographer than I am. Oh really? And you admit that? Yeah. Interesting. It's clear. It's without question. It's undeniable. Alright. Um, so we'll, we'll, we'll spare everybody loves story but, but how did he do it though? just the quick version.

Speaker 6: Um, so actually he invited me to shoot a wedding with him for a friend. And so we bonded over this wedding photography experience. It was down in san diego where he grew up, so we had to drive three hours from santa barbara to san diego and back and we chatted the whole time. Um, I had a boYfriend at the time, but I, uh, called my dad at the end of the day and I said, if, if this guy isn't, if I, if I don't marry this guy, he'll at least be my best friend for life. Oh, wow. Yeah. I guess I knew

Speaker 5: which also means that you're close with your dad. Yes. Are you similar to him in makeup or. And I mean physiologically as opposed to an application. Yeah, exactly. Yes.

Speaker 6: Uh, yes, I definitely take after my dad and I, I joke that my dad, I can be a doctor or a lawyer, but he would not be as happy as if I'm in the canvas into,

Speaker 5: oh, we need to know more about him. Okay. So what did he do for a living? He was a horse shoer, so really

Speaker 6: modern day. A blacksmith. Wow. Yeah. So he started his own business. He then invested in real estate. So he, um, we call kind of, he's like a slum lord, so he buys old dilapidated buildings, rehabs, um, rent them out. That's one of his other ways that he made money. So.

Speaker 5: So you're poking fun at him when you use that word? YeAh, of course. That's true at the same time. Yeah.

Speaker 6: So, um, so yeah, no, my dad, uh, my dad is like the funniest guy, very outgoing, friendly, warm. He's like the cool dad, right? All my friends love my dad.

Speaker 5: Cannabis enthusiasts. Yes. Cannabis enthusiasts to you just wants to have fun because that's my dad in a nutshell. Good. And then um, how did that work for your mother? Um, so my mom actually works at kiva now. Yes.

Speaker 6: So she's been, she's, my mom is also amazing. I'm very patient and hardworking and entrepreneurial. We have her doing what she's learning department of course she is horse. Right. And who better to help you pay your bills on time then your mom

Speaker 5: now does she know? Uh, andy and sally and pete's mother from medicine? Man, I don't think so because they're both in accounting and I think maybe we should like connect them, you know what I mean? Accounting moms for Canada. Absolutely. Absolutely. Alright. So she's like the reasonable person. Your father's the crazy person and then that makes you the crazy person courtesy me somewhere in the middle. Somewhere in the middle. Okay. So what, what do you leave behind for him? Like he, where do you defer and then you're more like your mother in what area?

Speaker 6: Um, good question. So my dad is very tolerant to risk, which brings me to my ability to operate in the cannabis industry. Right? Absolutely. Um, and then what do I get from my mom? My mom? No, I'm just kidding. My mom is, they're both very hard working, but my mom in particular is relentlessly hard working. So I get my work ethic. Yeah. I get my attention to detail and my organization from my mom.

Speaker 5: Good. Alright. Sounds like a nice combination. So here we go into the economic apocalypse that we all experienced and actually for cannabis, um, if there's a silver lining to the economic apocalypse, it is the cannabis industry. We have so many people that were in. I was in real estate, I was in this, I was in photographY, uh, and I needed to figure out what I was going to do. And so you kind of discussed the fact that you saw an opportunity because there was nothing on the shelves that sure there's flower, but there's nothing I can actually kind of engage with as a consumer. When did the journey stArt as far as we're going to build this brand and it's going to be called kiva.

Speaker 6: Yes. So, um, May, 2010, that journey began and scott started on this path that we're going to do something else. We have to have another way to stand out. So I'm actually, We thought maybe we'll start a dispensary while it's a not for profit world. Um, we have no business experience and it's going to cost a million dollars to build out a place that looks like spark right at the time, at the time. It's even more now. Right? Exactly. So, um, so that wasn't going to be a more difficult path to go down. So we pivoted and sat and, and saw the opportunity to novels.

Speaker 5: So the, the two of you, uh, start this in may and are on the shelves by the end of the year, Is that really true on

Speaker 6: the shelves by the end of the year? Which nine slash 11 months yet? Well, yeah, nine, seven, somewhere in there. Date night. Who knows math, not us, but not a lot of time. Not a lot of time though at that time. It felt for abs felt like forever and scott was in there tinkering with formulas and um, you know, I was in the garden shed with my mom actually cutting clones and we were vending clones to the dispensary's at that time. So, which really gave us a leg up when kiva came about because we had these clones that, um, that we were, we, those relationships created. Yeah.

Speaker 5: They were already buying the clones. Yeah. Right. So now instead of columns we were bringing in chocolate. Where did you, why did you, how did you come up with the application of chocolate? Why was that? What you did?

Speaker 6: So, um, it, it came to be known that chocolate was very scalable and I'll, I have to give scott the credit because he's the research king and we joke that kiva was built on google. Um, so it's thanks to his relentless research and dedication to learning and knowledge that he determined chocolate is the right medium and low water activity so it won't spoil. It has a long shelf life and the equipment. I'm actually the equipment that we had first purchased when, when we saw the idea really catch, catch fire and get going. We still have that saMe type of equipment and use that exact same.

Speaker 5: Oh, do you want a name? check it. I'm, no, you don't have to. It might be intellectual property that you were not, who you wouldn't, you don't want to share

Speaker 6: unless the equipment and more of the methods like really all done by hand. We want to make more bars, we extend the shift and we were longer. So, um, it's, it's kind of in the chocolate world, we're seen as, as teeny, teeny tiny on the cannabis industry. We're pretty size larger, but the equipment that we use is, is, you know, it's all done by hand, so.

Speaker 5: Okay. That's where we'll leave that I think because I'm looking at your eyes, but you're telling me to stop so I will. All right. So, so, uh, the, the first, you know, kind of chocolate bar, you know, I'm in your offices right now in the bay area and I can see a whole lot of information. How much of that information was on the first packaging? Uhm, most of it reallY in 2010. Congratulations to you.

Speaker 6: Thank you. Thanks. Um, one major, major change is, um, we've taken off the word doses. So our first package said a four doses on it, isn't foursquare's? What does that mean exactly? A dose, a dose for dose for me, that's completely different. So we moved away from that, but otherwise

Speaker 5: you had the. So then instead of that, I guess you gave us percentages as you should have done. Nice. So

Speaker 6: we, um, so now we don't use dosing it all. Say start with five milligrams, wait two hours for full effect, but we don't tell you, you know, take 10. We say start here, see what it does for you, and then we'll make adjustments. And if you're, if you're experienced with edibles and now you've learned your, your dos and your milligram content, that's what's milligrams all about, the milligrams only thing you can really quantified. Then you know, you know, okay, I know 45 is for me or whatever. So if you're experienced than you're okay, you're brand new, you're like, okay, I'll start with five.

Speaker 3: The instructions. Absolutely a start low, go slow. If you're not from California and you are eating a California product, start low and go slow. I promise you I'm from New York. I know of what I speak. So, uh, okay, great. All sorts of information. We have one chocolate bar. When did we start to say, oh, we should maybe do a couple skews. So few skews. Where did you start to scale off? Great question.

Speaker 6: So, um, we, uh, we have the 60 milligram bars was with what we started the company with. We actually intended to start only with the dark chocolate bar and when the chocolate arrived we put it in the machine. We made our first batch, we started to wrap him. We went on. This isn't, this isn't dark, this is milk. Okay. So call the printing company. Now we have two skews because there was no going back. Right. Okay. So now we will get dark to start. So we made it along that way, that path until about may of 2011. And then we started getting feedback from customers or potential customers like harborside and I said, you know, we don't want it. big important customer, big important customer. And so you listened to their feedback, right? And so, um, they said we don't want it twice as strong. we want it three times as strong. And we looked at each other and said, is that possible? People really want this, that much stronger. So we gave it a lot of thought and we said, okay, we have to, this is, this is the next chapter for us. So we came out with our hundred 80 milligram bars, we added some flavors so that the, um, the, the taste experience is still very pleasant. Um, and then that's what kind of launched us into the rest of the company, but it's taking feedback like that. So important

Speaker 3: of course it is. Um, the, you know, the most important thing in any relationship is listening. Oh Yes. as I, as I always say, I'm. So you only have one mouth, you have two ears, et cetera, et cetera. So, so greaT. There's the feedback from harborside, you've got this, what you thought was a tremendous, uh, you know, kind of amount in a bar. I shared that opinion still to this day. I wonder initially, maybe three months later, four months later, whenever you got feedback, have enough time. How were sales comparing as far as milligram to milligram? The lower and the, and the uh, you know, through the roof one,

Speaker 6: right? Yeah. So the 180 days are definitely our most. They're the best sellers.

Speaker 3: So they sold and they continue to sell through the roof.

Speaker 6: Yeah. And then, and so then, um, now are terabytes are the most popular products. So it's interesting, right? You get feedback that says make it stronger, but then we come out with a product that's a different format. That's key and lower dosing. That's also key, but it's more convenient. So it, it, it reaches a whole new set of.

Speaker 3: And there you go. I'll bring us back to the comMent that you made. There was no product

Speaker 5: on the market for us. And so you have this uh, photography guy from san diego and you have this cheerleader girl from here. And what you are is people that go to target. What you were saying there is that everybody is a potential cannabis patient, you know, consuMer. Uh, and so if it's five milligrams or 180 milligrams, there needs to be product for everybody. Yeah. Speak to that. Yeah,

Speaker 6: absolUtely. So when the way we approach product development, and that's our, I would say one of our strongest, um, one of our best assets or her best skill sets is coming up with new stuff. We're trying to solve a new set of problems for somebody. So rather than, um, you know, replicating what we've done in cannibalizing sales of a different product that we already have. Um, there's just a, there's a vacuum for great products out there and there's still people that aren't being served and apple tv. Um, well. So for example, we just launched our mint product and um, that is a non chocolate and a microdose format. so it's two and a half milligrams thc per piece. And so what it does is it takes the edge off. It's the easiest, most convenient. You can put it in your purse, you put in your pocket, it doesn't melt like chocolate.

Speaker 6: And you're right, you can't put a chocolate bar in your pocket and you can, it. It's a such a small amount that it's just easy to use. It's very friendly, consumer friendly. For somebody who hasn't tried cannabis or is a little afraid to go down that path, it's very disarming and the product format itself lends itself to going slow. So chocolate you can eat a whole, whole handful of blueberries, right? That's like a serving size and in the virgin chocolate world, but for men's you're used to eating one, two, three, maybe four was sitting, so it's not something you take a handful and throw it back so that that product is, is totally geared towards that new emerging cannabis consumer.

Speaker 5: What, uh, if you're a listener and you are introducing all of these different types of products, that is something that you think is one of the reasons that you are where you are. What else are you hearing from consumers? You know, let's bring it forward to January, 2017. That's when we're talking, you know, what do people tell you now? What do you hear that

Speaker 6: see recently? We've always heard make it stronger.

Speaker 5: Okay, got it. Check. We did that and we'll keep doing it. Great. Fine. Whatever. Yeah, yeah. We know who that is. Yeah, I know who that is. That question still

Speaker 6: persists. make it sugar free, make it cbd. Cbd is huge. So we want greater. We see people asking for greater ratios of cbd, but what I think we hear without necessarily being one, no people ask for it. So just new new products, right? What's new? What's new? Yeah. So they may not tell you what to do where they used to write, give me sugar free chocolate or some very specific example. They just want something else. Right. And it's just, it's like the way we live our lives, we've always want new new,

Speaker 3: of course it's 2013, 2014, 2015, et cetera. When you were ramping up in skew, you know, uh, where did you get to at the top? Are we still at the top? Do you just continue to introduce products? Do you sunset any products? How do you do it? Yeah. So, um,

Speaker 6: we haven't had to sunset anything as of this point. I'm not that, that will be true for forever. You would sense that as needed. Um, but we want to come out with products that are outstanding so we won't come out with anything that's just, okay. I'm internally, we're kind of known for constantly pushing out our product launch date because it's not going to go out if it's not perfect, right? The difference of launching a product six months in the lifetime of a product is like nothing. So you might as well take the extra time, make it freaking perfect, make it, you know, knock the socks off of people. And it's got to be it. You just have to take your time and you have to come up with products that are meaningful and people appreciate that. I think you, you, um, you, uh, you, you could potentially offend the consumer, don't if you don't give them what's, what, there, you have to respect them and you have to give, um, you know, information where they want it. Not too much, not too many flavors, don't, don't dumb them down with flavors and product types that they don't find important.

Speaker 3: So here we are in an area where, you know, traditional products don't necessarily apply. You said that you have to put out meaningful products. An auto manufacturer certainly puts out a great product, but not necessarily one that's truly meaningful. When you say meaningful for your products, what do you mean?

Speaker 6: So we are asking our consumers for a lot, right? Because we are potentially changing their state of mind with every single product that we come out with every time they enjoy your products. That's what's at stake, right? So, um, we need to give them the tools to, to obtain the experience that they're looking for. So for us, that commitment is consistency. So they need to be able to have a square of chocolate every single time and get the same result. So we're constantly looking to maintain that promise that we write. We're always consistent. That's just, that's easy. now that just goes without saying, right? But then we want to find. Yeah, exactly. So now we want to find better ways to serve them so meaningful. And I find the mince to be meaningful because they allow you to use cannabis in a way you never have been able to before, which is small, small, small amounts all throughout the day. And that's, that's brand new to people.

Speaker 5: Yeah. And you discussed the way that you told me about the product was through a day in the life of a consumer. So I kind of get it, uh, as far as kiva is concerned, what's in a name? Where did that come from? Good question. Okay.

Speaker 6: Yeah. So it's kind of a funny one. So when we were looking at our business model and what we wanted to do when we were back to the dispensary thing, right when your dispensary, we wanted to call the dispensary in that guy that's a place where you go and hang out, relax shell. Yeah. It sounds fun. So then, um, when we decided to do the chocolate bars, we said, okay, cool, we'll call them into, right? So we got all the packaging and we, uh, the, the boxes are waiting to be printed, right? The press is like turned on and ready to hit go. And we'd just go, oh god, this isn't right. What is it, nicole? What, what is that? What are you buying? A chocolate called sweet. Like it, it made no sense. It didn't give the consumer any information. It was confusing.

Speaker 5: Also. What if the strain in the bar is sativa, sativa? Then what do you do? Right, exactly. You just loaded with problems. Yeah.

Speaker 6: So we said, you know, hold the phone, let's figure out a new name. So I'm kiva came about and it took scott about three weeks just going over and over and over in his mind. And his mom was a. I'm a really big fan of native american studies and so she knew the word kiva and she said, oh my gosh, that is a underground ceremonial meeting place for the pueblo indians and that's where they go to celebrate religion and spiritual holidays. And it's a place where people come together and celebrate community. And we're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we switched out the word into for the word kiva and here we are

Speaker 5: also fewer letters better, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Okay. So, um, since you have done this, if someone's listening who says, hey, you know, eight or nine states just voted in cannabis, I'm thinking about getting in and if I just heard you, I might say, okay, I'll just do exactly the same thing that christie did. Please explain the difference between 20 2010 and 2017 as far as our wonderful industry is concerned.

Speaker 6: Yes. Wow. Um, everything is different. Um, but uh, with upcoming regulations, getting started is going to be more difficult. So I'm extremely thankful for the time that we got started because we were able to start in our home kitchen and just grow organically and very simply we were thoughtful about what regulations should be in place. So we were testing for potency and safety, all that stuff

Speaker 5: before it was ever required. And we still do it still not required here in California from the beginning. That's what I heard. When you were able to put it on the packaging, that means that you were testing from demo on. Kiva would not have been born without testing. We would not have. That is a brand promise and a pillar of our brand is consistency. So if we couldn't test that would've been possible. We wouldn't have existed. We're going to go take some pictures. Yeah. Perfect. So, um, so yeah, the, the landscape now is extremely different, but there's still a lot of opportunity to get started. Make sure your products are good and the people are gonna. Want to buy them, make sure your products are good and the people are gonna. Want to buy him? Any other tidbits? Be patient. Don't be too hard on yourself.

Speaker 5: Everybody's ever like the problems are. Look problem straight in the eye and say, bring it on, right tackle. tackle your problems. Don't let them go on too long. But when you started, nothing was on the shelves, almost nothing. Now there's a ton on the shelves. So how can I find space up there or down there on the, on the shelf? If I'm a new guy or gal, I think, um, work on your sales strategy, work on your pitch, be professional, and if you have a product that's different and that's good and it's quality and that tastes good or smokes well or all those things, if it, if you, if you have a strong product that people can say yes to than your, your chance of success is extremely, uh, is much greater. Exactly. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. It's not a, not a, not a certain.

Speaker 5: Alright. So christie, we haven't even started but we have to start to end. So I hope that we can come back and keep talking to you next time. I'm in town. Whatever. Okay, great. All right. It's time for the three final questions. I'll tell you what they are and then I'll ask you them in order. What has most surprised you in cannabis? What has most surprised you in life and on the soundtrack of christie novelex life? What is one track? One song that's got to be on there? So first things first, what is most surprised you in cannabis? What has most surprised me in cannabis is I would say the length of the length of time that it took to get regulations that was very surprising and it doesn't tend. I was like, oh, this is like as soon as we can at all, just fall into place. Um, and also the lack of knowledge out there among, among who? Yeah, among almost every general public, the legislator. But what's refreshing is how interested people are and how much they want to learn is, is nice. I'm sure was a different time or excuse me. The conversations were different in 2010 when you would say what you were doing as opposed to now saying what you were doing. In other words, in 2010, I'm sure you said, oh, we're working with chocolate and now you're like, we're definitely a cannabis company. Right? Oh, so true. Yeah. nailed it. What is most surprised you in lifE?

Speaker 6: Um, that you don't really have to know every, uh, that you can just, you'll never know everything. Never know everything. No one else knows everything. And I Think, um, different people serve different purposes and have different parts of the puzzle. Are you saying find a lane and stay in that lane? No, I'm saying just go for it. Just, you know, you're not going to be perfect. It's not going to be perfect. You don't know everything. So just do what you know and be who you are and add what you can contribute, contribute how you can. Got it. Don't give up. Don't give up and don't be afraid to, to make your contribution. How many times have you been knocked down? Not down. Is it countless or is it a or at least, you know, knocked down. I felt like not down to me isn't really a, I don't really like that concept because if the sun rises tomorrow then do you have it? You still have to get up in the morning. You still have to eat breakfast or breakfast. That's the point.

Speaker 5: You just made my point by not answering that question. You're like, I don't know. I don't know. I, I got to wake up tomorrow. I don't know what you're talking about. Failure. What do you mean? I love it. All right. on the soundtrack of your life. One track, one song that's got to be on there.

Speaker 6: That one is so hard. It's either the most difficult or easiest one. You know who you are. I love music. So to just nail it down to just one is like impossible. SUre. Well, it doesn't have to be the perfect answer. It's on the soundtrack. One song that's gotta be on there. So it's, you know. Okay. So it could be one of a thousand indeed. Um, you know, from forever and ever ago, there's a song by mazzie star called fade into you. It's like a kind of a dreamy 19, 97. Totally. It is. It just pops into my mind.

Speaker 5: You're older than you. Look is what I just found out. There's only some people on earth that no mazzie star, you have to be a certain age. And also that goes back to the cheerleader, not necessarily being like cheerleader cheerleader because the cheerleaders weren't listening to mazzie star, at least at my school,

Speaker 6: you know. See, it was all, it was just a song on the radio. So I can't say I'm like a huge die hard math.

Speaker 5: Okay. You're breaking hearts right now. I was giving you magically start. Yeah, you're taking it away. Christina. Thank you so much. Thanks for risky it at the beginning. Thanks for succeeding. And uh, I'll see you tomorrow. How about that? Sounds good. How could it be

Speaker 1: here? Appreciate it. And there you have christy knobloch and of course dentist apollo up top couple of different stories from a couple of different coasts. Very interesting to hear the difference obviously in the, uh, in the two cultures. Um, and just really appreciate it and talking about dennis and christi and of course very much appreciate you listening. Thanks so much.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.