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Ep.230: Henry Rollins & Alex Rogers

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.230: Henry Rollins & Alex Rogers

Ep.230: Henry Rollins & Alex Rogers

Alex Rogers joins us and takes us through his history. He found himself in a prison in Germany which helped put him on the straight but not so narrow. Alex shares his philosophy’s on business and life. While he does wear beige pants, he’s interested in finding a way to ensure that the cannabis industry adds more people of color.
Henry Rollins then joins us and shares immediately and directly that he’s currently not a cannabis consumer but he’s an advocate for cannabis due to the fact that those against cannabis are coming from bigotry and prejudice…and when the day comes that he needs it- he wants it to be available. Henry debunks the myth that cannabis is a gateway drug but promotes his theory that illiteracy is a gateway drug to future stupidity.

Transcript:

Speaker 1: Alex rogers and Henry Rollins, aliCe rogers joins us and takes us through his history. He found himself in prison in Germany, which I'll put them on the straight, but not so narrow. Alex shares his philosophies on business and life. While he does wear beige pants, he's interested in finding a way to ensure that cannabis adds more people of color. Henry rawlinson joins us and shares immediately directly that he's currently not a cannabis consumer, but he's an advocate for cannabis due to the fact that those against cannabis are coming from bigotry and prejudice, and when the day comes that he needs it. He wants it to be available. Henry debunks the myth that cannabis is a gateway drug, but promotes his theory that illiteracy is the gateway drug to future stupidity, vulgar to cannabis economy. I'm your host, seth adler. Check us out on social with the handicap economy. That's two ends of the word economy. Alex rogers and Henry Rollins,

Speaker 3: the internet, and you're actually international. We're going to berlin after we're. We're sitting here in san francisco. You're going to berlin in two months. Yeah, that's right. And you know, when I, when I first, it's funny because I was thinking of my niche when I started this conference a few years ago, I was like, you know what? I'm going to be the international canvas and our first three conferences just on the west coast. And everyone's like, well, how are you international? You know, what I saw, what I did before I was able to go international was I just brought a few people from other countries here to make it a more international vibe. Yeah. And, but lo and behold, sooner than later, we were able to go international. Our first international conference was in vancouver. Does that count accounts? Okay, good. And, but, but our first real international, it's good to be in a, in, in berlin in April 10th through twelfth.

Speaker 3: And uh, I'm totally excited about it foR a whole bunch of reasons. Well, yeah, you were just saying there, um, before we turned on the microphones, uh, things are changing for the better, right? Things are big changing in Germany. I don't tHink people really. Most people don't understand what's going on in Germany, but basically they had a medical maRijuana program for a long time, many years they had about 500,000 patients. Just kind of stagnated at that because it was very hard to use cumbersome process to get your prescription from a doctor. Uh, you have to go through that rigmarole, uh, uh, that's actually all changing in a few weeks and they're going to allow folks, uh, so, so, so before it wAs, as it was stagnant for years, it was a, uh, uh, about 1000. Then what happened? Uh, uh, uh, about eight months ago is there's a court decision, uh, a german patient, medical marijuana patient have been suing the government for many, many years for the right to grow as his medicine at his house.

Speaker 3: HomegRown home though, right? So he actually won his case. He took to the highest court about eight months ago. He won the case. And, and basically this put the impetus on the german health ministry, gazuntite minister to, to uh, uh, basically come up with rules and regs because, you know, the did not want a quad precedent, but everyone was willy nilly growing and we just have no control, you know, it's very german, right? so they waited until they had to. so they waited until they had to and then they, uh, and then they said, you know what, we're gonna we're gonna come up with rigs. And they just like took the bull by the horns. They didn't, they didn't really have a place to do a, like a placation of sorts. They may say, you know what, we're gonna we're gonna really do this. And so what's, what's going to happen?

Speaker 3: And just a few weeks before the conference is, and it's a done deal. Three major things, it's going to be easy for one to get their, their, their prescription insurance will pay for it. Also. How about that? Um, and then, uh, uh, so right now you get at the pharmacy and you will get at the pharmacy, you will continue to get at the pharmacy. I was just fine and like Uruguay, he, I kinda, I mean I have some ideas on that. We can get into the nuances of that a little bit, but, but the overall construct is that it'll go through the pharmacies and uh, and uh, right now they have to import their cannabis for the thousand stations that they do have. They imported from federal kin in, uh, in the Netherlands shore and they tweet tweeting candidate and charlie.

Speaker 3: That's right. Exactly, exactly. Exactly. I actually, I actually asked him to come to the uh, conference and uh, he said he said no because he thought it was too counterculture event. Of course we're known as the non counterculture event in our spirits. Whatever. I saw him speak at this irish event that was, that was way more counterculture than our event. So I don't know what the hell's Going on y'all. Y'all hit me up, jonathan. Yo, shout out. Anyway, uh, so they're going to have, they're gonna allow for domestic license producers in, in Germany. I, and this is huge. They're not going to limit it. They're not going to just say bio or the artist or whoever can do it. There are these big companies. There's goIng to be the average joe. We're not the average average joke. But you know, you gotta you gotta, you gotta put your time in work in here, but it's going to be like Canada.

Speaker 1: Alex rogers and Henry Rollins, aliCe rogers joins us and takes us through his history. He found himself in prison in Germany, which I'll put them on the straight, but not so narrow. Alex shares his philosophies on business and life. While he does wear beige pants, he's interested in finding a way to ensure that cannabis adds more people of color. Henry rawlinson joins us and shares immediately directly that he's currently not a cannabis consumer, but he's an advocate for cannabis due to the fact that those against cannabis are coming from bigotry and prejudice, and when the day comes that he needs it. He wants it to be available. Henry debunks the myth that cannabis is a gateway drug, but promotes his theory that illiteracy is the gateway drug to future stupidity, vulgar to cannabis economy. I'm your host, seth adler. Check us out on social with the handicap economy. That's two ends of the word economy. Alex rogers and Henry Rollins,

Speaker 3: the internet, and you're actually international. We're going to berlin after we're. We're sitting here in san francisco. You're going to berlin in two months. Yeah, that's right. And you know, when I, when I first, it's funny because I was thinking of my niche when I started this conference a few years ago, I was like, you know what? I'm going to be the international canvas and our first three conferences just on the west coast. And everyone's like, well, how are you international? You know, what I saw, what I did before I was able to go international was I just brought a few people from other countries here to make it a more international vibe. Yeah. And, but lo and behold, sooner than later, we were able to go international. Our first international conference was in vancouver. Does that count accounts? Okay, good. And, but, but our first real international, it's good to be in a, in, in berlin in April 10th through twelfth.

Speaker 3: And uh, I'm totally excited about it foR a whole bunch of reasons. Well, yeah, you were just saying there, um, before we turned on the microphones, uh, things are changing for the better, right? Things are big changing in Germany. I don't tHink people really. Most people don't understand what's going on in Germany, but basically they had a medical maRijuana program for a long time, many years they had about 500,000 patients. Just kind of stagnated at that because it was very hard to use cumbersome process to get your prescription from a doctor. Uh, you have to go through that rigmarole, uh, uh, that's actually all changing in a few weeks and they're going to allow folks, uh, so, so, so before it wAs, as it was stagnant for years, it was a, uh, uh, about 1000. Then what happened? Uh, uh, uh, about eight months ago is there's a court decision, uh, a german patient, medical marijuana patient have been suing the government for many, many years for the right to grow as his medicine at his house.

Speaker 3: HomegRown home though, right? So he actually won his case. He took to the highest court about eight months ago. He won the case. And, and basically this put the impetus on the german health ministry, gazuntite minister to, to uh, uh, basically come up with rules and regs because, you know, the did not want a quad precedent, but everyone was willy nilly growing and we just have no control, you know, it's very german, right? so they waited until they had to. so they waited until they had to and then they, uh, and then they said, you know what, we're gonna we're gonna come up with rigs. And they just like took the bull by the horns. They didn't, they didn't really have a place to do a, like a placation of sorts. They may say, you know what, we're gonna we're gonna really do this. And so what's, what's going to happen?

Speaker 3: And just a few weeks before the conference is, and it's a done deal. Three major things, it's going to be easy for one to get their, their, their prescription insurance will pay for it. Also. How about that? Um, and then, uh, uh, so right now you get at the pharmacy and you will get at the pharmacy, you will continue to get at the pharmacy. I was just fine and like Uruguay, he, I kinda, I mean I have some ideas on that. We can get into the nuances of that a little bit, but, but the overall construct is that it'll go through the pharmacies and uh, and uh, right now they have to import their cannabis for the thousand stations that they do have. They imported from federal kin in, uh, in the Netherlands shore and they tweet tweeting candidate and charlie.

Speaker 3: That's right. Exactly, exactly. Exactly. I actually, I actually asked him to come to the uh, conference and uh, he said he said no because he thought it was too counterculture event. Of course we're known as the non counterculture event in our spirits. Whatever. I saw him speak at this irish event that was, that was way more counterculture than our event. So I don't know what the hell's Going on y'all. Y'all hit me up, jonathan. Yo, shout out. Anyway, uh, so they're going to have, they're gonna allow for domestic license producers in, in Germany. I, and this is huge. They're not going to limit it. They're not going to just say bio or the artist or whoever can do it. There are these big companies. There's goIng to be the average joe. We're not the average average joke. But you know, you gotta you gotta, you gotta put your time in work in here, but it's going to be like Canada.

Speaker 3: Well, it'll be like a few hundred licensed producers, right? Yeah. So, so the system in Germany right now is coming online just like Canada, except for instead of licensed producers selling directly to the patients, they're going to. The pharmacies will be the, the, the, the middleman. But the analogy is the exact same. It's, it's extremely robust system. And uh, we expect, well how many people in Canada? 20, 30 million. I don't even know something like that. But a, germany's got $80 million. Okay. So we expect about one point $5, million medical marijuana patients, uh, uh, uh, in the next five to six years because the deal is, is the whole market is primed already. You'd be surprised you don't wAnt to go to europe and they tell you about them, more about the beatles than you would ever know. So it's kinda like that they know a lot when they've been following what's going on here in a little caveat to that is in berlin when we went after the November 4th election or whenever it was, elections, our election, our election have, uh, uh, all that.

Speaker 3: There's all the weeds stuff on the bat. Almost all of it. Past. Yup. Literally a day after the berlin, a legislature, parliament said the senate said that they would, uh, legalize wreck. Okay. And they had already been talking about that. There was a mayor of a book of mice and monica hammon, which we did a mrs. Herman, the mayor, monica harmon of pittsburgh, which is a very nice, super hip, central district of berlin. Very famous district of history. It's got. It's got a place. Got gordon. It's a hog and goat. It's a poc is where all the africans actually sell weed there. Right. Just a fact. And it's out in the open and they and they sell it and nothing really happens. Right. Well, she's talked years ago she said, let's just look. We know what's happening. Cops ain't doing nothin small amounts or tolerated, right. Let's just open a. Or like a social club is kind of how like barcelona, they know it's all they know over here.

Speaker 3: Right? But yet they know about the dispensary model now too. So at church I think when they do attend your hi betty [inaudible] 86 that you know, but with a lot of conversation about it kind of went back and forth and then just after the election they, they put it wide wide open again. so we're so not only going to see the business players within medical marijuana right now in Germany, it's huge camp. You understand it. Yeah. But a cool little caveat is that these north, because germany's like America, the south is conservative, the north is liberal, know general statement. But, but it's true. Bavaria and charleston, a conservative and northern Germany is liberal and so and so some of these northern cities aren't going to do rec models starting very soon. Look at that. So it's perfect timing. It all lines up. It makes all the sense of the world by alex would go to Germany if it wasn't for the fact that alex was in jail in Germany.

Speaker 3: So here's what the hell happened. That, hey, you know, I was selling, I was a stupid punk kid. I, I, you know, I learned a great lesson, you know, I, I, uh, you know, not that there should be anything wrong with selling weed, but I didn't, I shouldn't. People shouldn't make money off prohibition. That happens at a lot of different ways. So I understood I was dumb punk kid and I was selling weed in bavaria. Buyin the most conservative area in europe, right. I was just stupid, right? Just as dumb as a post directed short. However, uh, you know, I'm an upper middle class kid from, from, from minneapolis, and my sister went to princeton and I went to prison. Okay. So basically I had to get my gun, I sWear at work I had to get my shit together. Okay.

Speaker 3: Yeah. No, it's just for herb, you know, I mean I had whatever. I thank god it was only just for her, you know. But um, what were you doing in Germany anyway? I was just chasing girls and learning german that was doing nothing, man. We'll go over there. I don't know man. I just, my parents took me to europe a couple times and this is nice. I ran the high times cannabis cup from 98 to two. Oh three. I ran the concert house for them. It was just a couple of weeks out of the year, but enough for me to be like, yeah, I worked for high time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they paid me nothing when I got a lot of girls out of it, you know what I mean? I mean I ran the whole thing, you know. Sure. And so I worked it, I got emails, you know, french girl swiss whatsoever.

Speaker 3: So I just go travel around and because that's kind of right there. That's the year in europe, man. So coming from America, you like, you go from like a portland, san diego, you can go anywhere in europe. Absolutely. And so yeah, I was just, you know, anyway, but the point is, is going to prison was shocking. It was three screws, traumatic. What did you learn? And I learned that I wouldn't, I wouldn't spend any time breaking the law anymore. I'd spend my time changing law. And when that, when I came to that conclusion, I actually started making money. So I ended up moving back to America. I was a, I was a rapper in a rock star in Slovenia, under, under what? Monitor job. That's my job. Um, and uh, and you're huge and sylvania? Yeah. I'm a big Slovenia slovenia's number one dance hall artist.

Speaker 3: That's what I used to say. Yeah. Sounds good. So the thing was, is I had my hot girlfriend who I ended up marrying. I was thinking very much in 13 years now. and uh, uh, uh, I had a hot girlfriend, I was in like four different bands and I was making no money and I was just happier than a pig in poop and I stopped selling herb a year and a half for it had been a year and a half. so what I did, I went down for some shit that I had done in the past. Right. I gotcha. It didn't matter. I still realize I need to go back. So I went and graduated magna cum laude in political science a year and a half after I got out of prison from what's southern Oregon university part of the Oregon state chain. Sure. And I, I'm, uh, and some of my credits transferred when I was a kid going off at college.

Speaker 3: And so thank god a year and a half and it's crushed it. And then I started, uh, uh, uh, uh, one of oregon's biggest medical marijuana clinics. I'm the first person to advertise medical marijuana on network television in America as far as I know, people don't do that. I just made a super professional commercial is what I did. Uh, like, hello, this is Alex Rogers. Did you qualify or medical marijuana card? If so, come on down. And how did they let that off? I don't know. I squirreled it in. I squirreled it in. It was really tough actually. It's most stations didn't take one station. Took it and I was like word, you know, that's great. And it blew my business up. It was like bam all of a sudden. And it legitimize the end. people come up here in the street and be like, oh my god, I had this tagline.

Speaker 3: It's your medicine. It's your right. And I point I'd say get legal and people would come up to me on the better call saul. Yeah, no, totally. It was like what fast eddie george? All crazy idea guys eat. Yeah. Crazy. Eddie, you us small boys. Uncle actually. Crazy eddie really up to the jail. SepHardic massive from New York. I think he went to jail too, probably. So why don't you still in the distRict? I've, well I've never been to the summit. I don't a clinic. So those condition over that. It's a misconception that it's inexpensive, but no, it's just a doctor's office. No medicine. Ricardo over six. Now we card with 5,000 people a year. There you go. And the business stakes in almost a million dollars a year. It's still a uh, uh, and I don't you touch the medicine, so I'm a big answer that every guy.

Speaker 3: So going back to Germany because I was in prison was formerly experience and uh, I just feel I just, I just feel anger and guilt, you know, to myself. Right. And so, and so I always had this vision that. So when I picked berlin, when nothing was going on, I booked the venue year and a half and everyone thought I was an idiot and I thought maybe I am an idiot, you know, there was a, there was a lot of poetic autism that was pushing me, uh, uh, to, to oberlin. And I basically just got lucky or it was serendipitous or whatever you want to say. Sure. I'll say serendipitous. Pretty hippie. Yeah, sure. So we got this guy, obviously you have a certain way of thinking and when Alice Rogers is in the room, alex rosner is definitely true to that. So where is that for?

Speaker 3: I mean, how much of that was built before prison that I beat. You kind of explained the evolution of your thinking in prison. Like you got a strong personality, where's that come from and your folks like that that I've always had a strong personality. I mean I've been a front man for bands, so that really helps me in branding. I think that helps anyone in bits. I don't think I'm the best business person but I've got to but I'm. But I'm an extrovert. Right? So just being a social person and knowing how to make people feel good about themselves and being an kind of nurturing male I think is a, is a redeeming quality. I've always had it. I've always been just crazy as a. I've just been crazy. You know, you know what I'm, you know what? I'm basically just this white kid from Minnesota who went to minneapolis who grew up in the city, went to public schools.

Speaker 3: And, you know, I had a lot of black influence in my life and so I, uh, you know, I, I would, you know, I was speaking black, if you will, you know, black american english. I'm a time I was like six or seven years old, right? So I just, I, you know, I, I, I give a lot of, uh, you know, I come from a line of crazy white boys, there's no doubt about it. But then you add some soul in that from american culture, from the brothers, then that's kinda what I am. I go. And so then I, and then being a rapper and a lead singer and a front man, it's just, it's just, it's kind of what I am right now. It feels almost the same. But then in terms of the band, was there a different musicality where the different. Were you in punk at all?

Speaker 3: Is that how you read that type of? No, no, no. I, you know, I respected punk later. I hated punk. I hated most like kind of what a white music if you, if you will, like I never like metallica or guns and roses or anything contract like, like I can get it, like the white music I liked when I was a kid and was creedence clearwater revival and the allman brothers or leonard skater, some that rockabilly stuff. I really thought it was groovy. Even as a kid when you get into the punk or the metal and you lost me, I actually have a lot more respect for that music now. Like I'll, I'll listen to like metallica and like shredding. Right. And obviously I was like, oh my god, that is, that's amazing music. Now you can kind, you caught up with it or it caught up with you without.

Speaker 3: It was just a wigger from minneapolis and, and, and it just wasn't part of my culture. I never learned how to look. I'm from minneapolis and I never learned how to skate on ice. Okay. because basketball season and hockey season, slided that's are intertwined and of course I'm playing. I'm playing tonight. Do you know how to. I mean, can you, can you play them? I couldn't play anymore, but I was to guard. I'm guessing the us forward. I'm 62, so I'm so, so back then that was pretty tall. Powerful. That's a powerful. So you would rebounding. You were like kind of Charles Barker? That was drunk because I was a lineman on the football team. I was the same size when I was 16. That's what it is. Yeah. Okay. So like you were human sized as a child. Mr. Baby. Maybe helion shit. Let me ask a final question. What is most surprised you in cannabis now? Oh, before I asked you that, you said you don't touch the plant. No, I don't. I don't. In business I. Oh, I smoke every day. Fair enough. I smoke euro traps though as well. cash in tobacco, you know, my hippie friends are like, I think I'm a sellout. really adulterating the product, but I've lived in europe for so long. It's a wonderful functional way for me to smoke them. I'm so ready to smoke more now. There you go. What has most surprised you in cannabis?

Speaker 3: What surprised me the most is, is a lot, is that it's become really whitey and sterile, that whole industry. I thought we can legalize like the brothers who are, we want it, we want cannabis legalized, we don't want people going to prison, but the brother of slang on the street, I kind of asked out, you know what I mean? And I thought they know the white boys were always running the candidacy, the kind bug, you know what mean. Yeah, sure. and they always run to that and it kind of makes sense that there'd be a white industry, but it's just too white for me. So I, you know, I really make a huge app. So that's what surprised me. I thought I've camps we legalized. Oh, you know, I was like, oh let's do this. Should be a little bit more technical. Yeah, exactly. And you know, we, you know, I, you know, and a lot of cannabis events, it could be like an insurance confident Iowa.

Speaker 3: Yeah. And so I thought when cannabis will be legalized that we would have more so like it'd be more of a cultural shift too. And I think that cultural shift is still happening. It's just not having this needs to happen a little bit quicker. Yeah. Not as many, uh, you know, beige pants. Yeah. Look at me and Henry Henry Rollins was just me for my time because I told the story about dreadlocks on haight ashbury and he's like, I hope the irony is not lost on that. I'm like, no, dude, the irony is not lost. Okay, here's my, here's my, here's my, here's my, here's my black power fist, you know, with my tie. Okay. If you're telling me that looked like joe whiteboard, I dread locks for 18 years and uh, I looked like to a whiteboard now and I literally do. I look like I could be like, someone told someone that I did that. I thought you were a tennis instructor. There you go. Can I look like I'm from the marines know? I know. I know. I was like, really? Me, let's be real here, you know, come on. What? I got to prove myself. So, uh, but anyway, it's great because I looked like Joe White boy. So what I want to be joe whiteboard and talk to Joe White people, you can do that. I can do it. What has most surprised you in life?

Speaker 3: That I'm famous, not for my musical talent, but for my business acumen. For your brain. Well, yeah, trying kind of. well, is it tenacity? Is it like what is it? Do you think? What's driving you and how is that driving the business? You have to be resilient. You have to be tenacious, you have to be solution minded. I think those are some of the top tenants in business. I mean, there's no problem. There's no solution. It's like confluent hip hop in business are the same thing for me. Kung fu, there's always a solution. There's always a solution to get out of it or to, to get on it, whichever you need to do to get down on it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Shout out cooling gay and uh, uh, and hip hop there in freestyle, there's always, there's an infinite amount of styles and there's always a place where you can go to make it work.

Speaker 3: RigHt? So business is the same thing. Uh, uh, to be, you know, being an entrepreneur, I think resiliency is, is, is the number one thing, the whole thing. It's the whole thing. If you can just grind through it, you don't want it to be the best at it. You don't have to be the smartest, you just have to stay focused. And, and, and, and I'm, I'm a, I'm an assessment person in that regard. Sure. So a data that's not, yeah, you have, you have to be and you know, you don't want to do it to the point of I tell people that I'm going to be as successful and famous and rich as, as time allows me because I will not sacrifice. I spent at least a minimum even on tHe, my, on his days, days, 90 minutes with my daughter and absolutely has to happen. Will happen twice.

Speaker 3: Oh, I put her to bed every night, you know. So even if a little kid, right, how old she's five and she needs me and loves me and I can sense when she's not getting enough of my intention and immediately I'm completely in tune with that and I'll just shut off or whatever I do and spend time with her. And that's good. That's great for me. I mean we're, she's, you know, she's my heart and uh, I can go right in the moment when I'm with her and don't have to think about anything. And so you have nothing else falls away. That's my mantra. Health is number one. Health and family are number one. And then money's money follows somewhere after that. And uh, I like to work and so, and I'm passionate about it, but the money means very little to me compared to just the health and the happiness and the, um, you know, saying I did something that made a difference in the money.

Speaker 3: I was just talking to somebody else. The money is the means. It's not the end. Yeah, exactly. It's, look, look, if money becomes the end, and of course in America it is in so many instances. So, so even though I might just the industry and says it's all white and pasty and it's still more conscious than anything else. Anything else? Exactly. Exactly. So, so, so I give things on the soundtrack of your life. I can't wait for the answer one track one song that's got to be on there for Alice Rogers. Uh, you mean the song I can pick? That's got to be honest. So, you know, we got the soundtrack playing one of the songs that's on there that must be on there like a real, like a real song. I'm not when I can make up. Right. Or you can do whatever you want. Oh, I'm to interview me. I didn't think, you know, everything. What is it? Uh, did you want to make one up and say wow, you know, I mean, so, you know, probably. um, let me think. A fisherman, curtis mayfield because it was who I was. And, uh, it really, I still relate to kind of, I'm still a gangster inside, but what I realized is when you go legal and you're dealing with all these, these other people with money and part of the institution, more gangster than enough.

Speaker 3: Explain that. Tell us what you mean by that. You know, shit. It's like gangsters who are gangsters doing their little thing. Like I stopped selling weed and I started making money. Okay. So it's just like the world is gangster and I'm, and I'm not. look, I'm looking, you know, I'm a tough guy, you know, it's like I'm not just a pushover, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, be tough this. But I definitely know, you know, you've stepped to me. You're taking the walk, right? Walk in the park and kick off. yeah. So, so I just liked to, I still like I'm a fighter and I, and I am a, I'm an outlaw mentality. Even though I am not an albino anymore, I still love that mentality. But so what I want. So it's incumbent upon me then to use all my energy and power to now change laws where we can, where we can be, uh, you know, do our thing, and that's all we want to do.

Speaker 3: It's all about liberty and you know, when I'm dealing with these politicians out there, what I'm doing these, these, these business folks, and I love white people. Don't get me wrong, I'm a white guy, okay? I'm not hating on my own people. And when I say white, it doesn't really mean color skin. It's a cultural reference. I hear, I hear that. That's what you're saying. It's a cultural reference. And so, uh, and so I just think that, that these white, these white people are gangsters. They be running things for a long time, right? And now I'll get a little glimpse of this because I was just like this dreadlock underground rapidly, so long. And now I looked, I don't my point have a little money and do all the thing. I'm like, oh, I get it. I also get how people can be so good, so insular and get into a bubble and not understand what's going on in the streets, you know, but you know what, that's never going to be me.

Speaker 3: And so I. So I. So I carry two torches, you know, I, I can talk in all, in all aspects and all things and uh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm proud of that. So even though not an outlaw or gangster anymore, yeah. My, my, my mentality is, and it just seems like being in the real world, doing real stuff as well. can you do than ever. There you go. So that's my fisherman. Makes sense. The message Is there, the lyrics are there, but I'll tell you as far as pusherman by curtis mayfield, who is was brilliant. That's the greatest beginning to a song, but that there is no pleasure. Thank you bro.

Speaker 1: This episode is supported by brand or branch. Brand new branch provides intellectual property legal services with a focus on the cannabis industry. Shabnam malik and Amanda Conley founded brand new branch in 2015 to provide nimble, coSt effective intellectual property services. Brandon branch is proud to offer high quAlity services with flexible billing arrangements, including flat fees and monthly subscription plans to meet the needs of early and mid stage companies. Brand to branCh helps companies with branding, creative content and compliance. Go to brandon [inaudible] dot com slash kent economy. For more detail. It is henry. Yes, henry. Thank you so much. No problem. All right, so you actually care about this plant and you

Speaker 4: really are very interested in what happens with this industry. I wasn't aware that you were such a proponent. I don't use cannabis. I just not interested. Okay. However, if I want to, I want to be able to go get it and not have to find a dealer or sneak around and if one day I had some malady that can be neutralized, relieved by using cannabis, I will go for it with all speed and hopefully if I ever need that, the market and the industry and the knowledge will be such that solo. Go, you don't want that one. You want this one and here's how you use it and you're going to feel better. So I don't mind feeling better. Right? And so the main thing for me about being such an advocate for cannabis is because of those who are against cannabis, where they get off and where they're coming from, in my opinion, they're coming from, from bigotry, from racism, from prejudice, from a desire to throw people in prison and to make money off that.

Speaker 4: And so I can'T be on board with that. I don't. If you're going to lionize and make alcohol, this thing will you see the ads for alcohol, which is a depressant. When you see people on these beer as you open the beer and all of a sudden the girls are looking really good and they're coming over and everyone's smiling just as her holding a beer and all of a sudden your life with pleasure. Oh, come on. I've seen a lot of people puke and try and punch me when they're on alcohol. So I never saw spring break looking like that. It might look like that, but there's more vomit and so it. If we're going to say alcohol is great, then what's your problem with the. With cannabis that can actually do medical good, or here's another idea if you're going to make cannabis or marijuana is schedule one controlled substance right there with ecstasy, heroine, and lsd.

Speaker 4: Then let's put Alcohol in there too. And let's, let's look at that again. And I'm not a different ambition. I know, but don't tell me that alcohol is okay. As johnny drives his damn car into a phone pole and tell me that marijuana is bad and it's a gateway. To me, illiteracy is a gateway drug to a future. Stupidity. Homophobia and racism are gateway drugs to future ignorance and brutality. Right? And so I don't think cannabis is a problem. I think the ignorance is the problem. And so when you have a country that makes its money filling battlefields in prison cells, overtrained, the perception of cannabis is going to be not easy, but it is possible. And that's why I advocate for it and I advocate for people understanding the medical uses of it. Anybody listening to you now? Anybody who has heard your solo music, anybody's the blacks, flagstaff knows that you have a very specific way of looking at life.

Speaker 4: So going way back, where did you grow up in and how does your brain get built this way? Uh, I come from Washington dc. I was born in 1961 in Washington dc and the ameRica at that time was in a very turbulent place. Washington dc. Being the nation's capital was a very interesting place to grow up in. I had national guard on my corner at one point you could smell tear gas in smoke in tHe air because the damn city was on fire and I was old enough to understand things are burning. That's a guy with a Rifle, right? I'm scared. I saw hippies role cars over the conflict. Rolling back. They hit me with enroll them over again. I was like fourth grade when this was happening, it blew my young mind. I also saw the hardcore whIte black contrast of Washington, dc, good neighborhood, bad neighborhood.

Speaker 4: And I understood as a white person, my american life was going to be very different than the american life of my african american classmates. And I got it by age nine or 10. I got it. And in my own small boy way, it politicized me that made me very aware of racism and very, I hated it. It's the bane of my existence is that prejudice and homophobia and massage, and it just freaked me out. I lose control. And so I started to understand hypocrisy and inequality and how justice is meted out at a very early age. And I was talking on stage today in front of all those entrepreneurs about when I was at a friend's house and his mother had glaucoma, so I didn't know what it was until I understood what it was. Sure. And his mother got cannabis, marijuana cigarettes from the government and I went, wait a minute.

Speaker 4: So the government is okay with marijuana until it's not okay with marijuana. And I was like 15 at the time. So I couldn't go deep on the hypocrisy of that. But I understood it was hypocrisy. Something wasn't right. Something wasn't right. It was something will basically. It Was denetta one way for this, these people and another way for these people. And that probably shouldn't be the american way. Definitely not what the constitution is telling you. What should be, and so that's where my politics formed and I got immediately into music where I'm hanging around with a Bunch of people who spend the afternoon inspired by something they put into their bodies. Sure. And so I was around everything from alcohol to heroin, marijuana, whatever, and I've had a life in music and in the entertainment world where I know a lot of good people and they died because of their fund they were having or ended their lives a little early because their body is when we give up because this kind of packed it in.

Speaker 4: And so I've been around drugs and all of that. All my life, I've never. It Was never interesting to me. Now I used smoke pot once out of boredom in 1987 and I didn't enjoy it. It's just not for me. I'm not putting it down. I hear you. It's just, it wasn't for me, but it very well could be. It just wasn't the right stuff at the time. I just sat there feeling incredibly Self conscious and I just sat there until it was over. Uh, but I, I tried lsd a Few times in the eighties. Interesting. Nothing I wanted to make a pastime time of. I was afraid of losing my mind, but I have been living in California for decades now and in the eighties were all very young and crazy and I saw a lot of really amazing young people die. Meth, heroin, reallY scary drugs was never a marijuana that got them.

Speaker 4: It was street drugs, you know, it was, it was speed and dope and they died awful, you know, with a mouthful of vomit face down on their bed, did not know one, found them for three days and I know a lot of these people and I used to know them. They're dead now. That's what I know, the dangers of drugs. But I started to understand it was the ignorance around the drugs that was dangerous. The drugs are dangerous, But it's not being able to get information that made it really dangerous and it was the lifestyle you had to adopt if you fell into that way of life that was dangerous. And so a lack of information was always the danger. And I think with cannabis, it's the lack of information that lets people like, well it's bad and it's a gateway drug. I'm like, well now You need to.

Speaker 4: If you can possibly shut up for a minute and get some real information and you know your hands look swollen, you have arthritis. Yes. You know what we got? We got something for you. You might not be happy with what you're about to do, but if you're swelling goes down, what are you gonna do about that? And so I think that's the America is always on his way to the next thing. We're always evolving, I hope. Well yeah, but we were always moving and the evolution, the forward movement has to come from a grassroots thing where it sits down to like you and me standing here talking or that room full of people listening to me and then talking amongst themselves and listening to a bunch of other people talking. It comes from thAt. These people yesterday what the lieutenant governor of California, san francisco will tend to.

Speaker 4: Governor of California was here last night. yes. He was on that stage short talking about hooray. Legalization of cannabis, that's amazing. Now that in your lifetime, right, that that is change. You can believe in as they say, as they used to say, right, and so and so. There it is, but it comes from enough people like alex who talked about years ago. He's the robey here, the kid with a sign legalized marijuana on a on haight ashbury. It comes from that, but it turns into law and legislation as perception changes as we move on in 100 years from now, cannabis, the illegality of it will be seen as the brief weird moment In America when had prohibition and above a bunch of people died from drinking, poisoned alcohol and the mafia got their legs selling right, and so the future looks bright for cannabis because I think the information is so solid in the good far outweighs the bad and on that level I want to be part of it just because I want to be part of that, which is good.

Speaker 4: I don't. I never need to take a breadth of marijuana to be for it right now. Yeah, and you mentioned it comes from the ground, right? Yeah. It's an analog thing, it's not a thing in a, in a laboratory, you know, I love the idea that you grow it. So how bad can it be if it's a plan. All right, so I have three final questions, but just right before the three final questions I gotta ask you about the career and the formation of black flag. How did that all happen and what a ride was that from inside black flag was an established band before I was in it. uh, I was actually the fourth sInger. They kept leaving. Okay. And, and so they were my favorite band and they were holding auditions for a singer in New York and they knew me and they said, henry, you're a crazy guy.

Speaker 4: Why don't you come up here and audition? And I looked at my chocolate covered apron at the ice cream store I was working at and my $3 and seventy five cents an hour wage and my future and the minimum wage working world. Or I could go to New York and audition to be in black flag. how much do I have to lose? what is the definItion of nothing, and so I went to New York and I yelled and screamed and rule microphone for two hours not knowing any of the lyrics and they said, you're in and I quit my job, packed a bag, gave all my stuff away, and I got their tour itinerary, got a bus ticket for detroit, which I still have and I met up with a band and the rest, as they say, is history. Absolutely. How was it that you were in the band?

Speaker 4: In other words, were you classically trained as a, as a singer? No. Or was it all attitude and it wasn't all emotion. My entire life has been all attitude. I'm a high school graduate who crawled through high school and in my life I've written about 27 books. Why? I own a publishing company. I sleep with the owner every night. There you go. I've made a bunch of records because I have some big juicy recording contract. No, because I know how to set up microphones and I know how to hire a studio. I just get up in the morning and do stuff, and so my entire life has been intent and attitude. Talent does not really play into what I do. It's tenacity and a desire not to sit around and watch the grass grow. Sorry about your wonderful suit. No, that's fIne. It really isn't that wonderful.

Speaker 4: I'm sorry. I wanted you to say thank you. Three final questions. Well, actually, just before that, you also are the most in shape. I'm a musician. You've ever seen a musician? I mean like, uh, what is that all about? Why is that? I've been working out since I was about 15. Yeah. And for me going to the gym and all of that, it's an antidepressant. It's a stress alleviator and it helps me take on this schedule which I entertained on a daily basis, which is full of expectation and obligation. One of the ways I keep from not having panic attacks as I go to the gym, they're young and it's just been in my life for so many years. I don't understand a life without working out and I'm no tough guy or anything. I just liked going and sweating, sweating it out. There you go. Just like on stage in the gym as well.

Speaker 4: Alright, three final questions. Uh, I'll tell you what they are and then I'll ask you them in order. What has most surprised you in cannabis? What has most surprIsed you in life? And then on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on there. Could be your own. Could be otherwise. First thing's first, what has most surprised you in cannabis? The thing that surprised me most with cannabis is the friendliness and the almost surprising moral decency I, I've encountered of people who utilize an and then an educator where they're just good people. I've been around a bunch of drunks who swung at my head through all of that. No guy high on marijuana has ever taken a swing at me. Uh, back in the punk rock days. I lived in the south bay, south los angeles international airport. Black flags friends were stoners.

Speaker 4: We would go to the stoner houses and play it. Stoner parties. Why? Because they're all really nice and really friendly. Where you play in front of 500 drugs and by the third song they're swinging at your head and calling you all kinds of names. Oh, that never happened. When the stoner guys like, hey man, player garage. Okay, sure. And it was big fun. And so it wasn't really a surprise. It was this really cool to find out that the marijuana fans were the readers, the thoughtful ones and not the one swinging at my head. And I got my head's going out a lot in the eighties and nineties and a few of the 2000. And so that was the surprise. Yeah. Did you mind getting swung at so much? You've mentioned that a few times. Yes, I did. Okay. I'd rather just show up and sing and not get beaten up.

Speaker 4: can we just do the songs? Can we just do the songs? Because I have to do it again and again and again. Can you not hit my face? I'm pretty well. What do you think that comes from though? In punk rock? Why is that? That uh, you know, that it, it actually explodes into physical violence youth. Alright. Youth testosterone. And an uncorking of that uncapping. The hookup can of coca cola. Bam. That's it. That's it. That's what that is. Is that energy? Yeah. What has most surprised you in life? Henry rollins. What has most surprised me in life is almost anywhere I go. And I've been to every continent from antarctica to wherever, all the way up. Okay. We're all the way down. Well, the short from my room saying, uh, yeah, exactly. Um, what does, what does surprise me? It took me going out into the world and going all over the african continent, going to central asia, southeast asia, south America, central America, and walking through villages, slums, souks bazaars, being in islam about Pakistan.

Speaker 4: When buddha was assassinated, wow. And no one was violent to me, you know, walking the streets of tehran and everyone was so friendly to me and seeing that humans, we, homo sapiens are not so bad. Right? And that when you put us in the right environment, we will always skew towards decency and generosity and kindness. When you scare the hell out of us, we get tribal and this is mine and that's yours. Don't touch mine or I'll kill you. That's when you fill us with fear. Fear is the enemy fears an enemy because it nothing good comes from it, but when we're not full of fear, we're giving you half of our sandwich and pulling you out of a burning car. Sure. And that has been how I gotten in and out of these countries. Traveling alone, I guess people are cool and and so that's been kind of a surprise, but mostly it's just been a reminder of what my job is onstage, what my job is as a writer in different publications is to promote that in whatever way I can wake up and do shit and don't be a jerk about it.

Speaker 4: You don't need to hurt anybody. And like today, this conference, a lot of these people are here about making money. Good. But you can do that and be good mean. I know a lot of rich people, a lot of them are really cool. They're film directors, they're actors and they do a lot of really good stuff and they also happen to make a lot of money, but they're not jerks about it. And then I know some, they're just there. They were awful as 10th graders and now they're awful ended. Rich, right? Same deal. Different daY. Wake up and do shit and don't be a jerk. All right, so I can't wait for the answer to this on the soundtrack of your life. One track, one song that's gonna to save a song. If if you could down on the street by the stooges from your second album, funhouse. That's another guy that's in shape. You and iggy pop both going to Mexico city next month to watch him play three shows. Tell hIm I say hi Henry Rollins. Thank you so much. All right.

Speaker 1: And there you have Henry Rollins. Obviously this is a guy that thinks about stuff. Obviously this is a guy that knows how to use his words. So very much appreciate henry given us some time. Very much appreciate alex given us some time. That's a unique character right there. Very much appreciated my time with him. I hope you appreciated your time with us. Thanks so much for listening.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.