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Ep.257: Mac Jones, Colorado Bank & Trust

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.257: Mac Jones, Colorado Bank & Trust

Ep.257: Mac Jones, Colorado Bank & Trust

A lifelong regional banker, Mac Jones joins us and notes that the banking industry is a completely different animal than it was just a short time ago. He shares that two things have happened in tandem- there has been an increase in regulations on banks while bankers have come to have less of a relationship with depositors and merchants. All the while, there’s no longer true accountability in the industry. That said, Mac’s always kept that relationship with the merchant and so when legal cannabis arrived in Colorado, with an understanding of the Cole Memo’s, Mac saw no difference in cannabis merchants and provided traditional banking relationships in the industry- providing structural support for the industry. And there’s much much more.

Transcript:

Speaker 1: Mack Jones, a lifelong regional banker. Matt Jones joins us and notes that the banking industry is a completely different animal than it was just a short time ago. He shares that two things have happened in tandem. There's been an increase in regulations on banks while bankers have come to have less of a relationship with depositors and merchants. All the while there is no longer true accountability in the industry. That said, Max always kept that relationship with the merchant, and so when legal cannabis arrived in Colorado with an understanding of the Cole memos, Max saw no difference in cannabis merchants and provided traditional banker relationships in the industry providing structural support for the industry and there's much, much more welcoming to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the habit can economy. That's two aunts in the word economy, one of the unsung heroes in legal cannabis. Mack Jones, thank you for having me.

Speaker 2: You. Uh, so we've got the, the, the family running around here. You got five grandkids all onsite. Yes. Yeah. And uh, they range in age from young to a almost old is what I've noticed. Is that fair? Yes. You've met them all. Yeah. And your kids are, are kind of young, right? Kind of young. Right. And you, how do you feel as far as A. Are you young? Are you old? How would you answer that? Some days I feel both ways. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I have noticed as I go along here because I'm 41 years old, so I've noticed that I am realizing how uh, how dumb I am kind of week every month.

Speaker 3: Every year I'm getting dumber because of the, I'm realizing how much. I don't know. Yes, right. We're all that way. It should be. Right. So you, I mean it should we call you a banker, but I feel like you, we just talked for about two hours. I feel like you would think that was an epithet if I called you a banker. That's correct. Very much so. Are you, do you know that is the business though, right? Yes. Alright. So we're here. And how do you provide. See, I see the Sinai say low hunter. No hunter hunter, it's not so much the how did we get to log onto the Santa Fe railroad? It's means junction splitting place where the railroad goes north and south and east and west and land is a place where there are more streamlined and less water, more cows and less milk, and you can look further and see less than anywhere else in the world.

Speaker 3: I know I sound like I'm from the Chamber of Commerce. Exactly. Exactly. So this is literally, you know, this is the crossroads. Yes. In in many respects, yes. For the railroad, which was very important to the West as we opened it up. Right. And so this gets into the fact that your business is generation. Yes. Right? Yes. My grandfather came to the bank in the 19 thirties just before the depression and his first job was to take our note case meaning all the people who owed us promissory oldest loans and pledge it to the Federal Reserve so that the bank could stay open. Okay. The 19 thirties, a very specific time in finance, right? Yes. So how did he get into banking then? Really and truly chef, I think that he got in business in a little town in Wiley, I think it is working for the Federal Land Bank and someone said you ought to go to work in La. Hunta I bought in Colorado. Yes. And so he gets in and um, and then how did this become something that everybody, your father, how did your father learned from his grandfather who were talking about that this is something that should be a family business.

Speaker 3: I don't know. It's a, it used to be a pretty easy business. So I guess everybody was, took the easy way out. I got you. We'll get into that. When, when, when you came in, when, when did you start working with your dad? How, how young were you? Well, really, uh, I started when I was about 10 or 11 years old because we used to have a thing in the banking business called counter checks, meaning that it did not have your name or account number on the check. It was just a blank check and you would walk into a store

Speaker 2: and all the banks in the community would have their checks there and you would write it out for whatever it was. And there just weren't any account number. So my job, my first job was to go around and make sure that all the stores had our banks checks in it. Got It. So, so if I have a store I can use whatever I want, I can use whatever, a bag checks that I want, um, and let's just make sure that they're from, uh, from our bank. Well, yeah, that's what we. That was the goal. A little salesman ship their. Yes. And so what was the approach from a what, what was the reasoning? Well, a customer convenience and how so make sure we had our bank checks so you could buy whatever that merchant was selling, I guess for the customer and for well, both being the customer, right.

Speaker 1: Mack Jones, a lifelong regional banker. Matt Jones joins us and notes that the banking industry is a completely different animal than it was just a short time ago. He shares that two things have happened in tandem. There's been an increase in regulations on banks while bankers have come to have less of a relationship with depositors and merchants. All the while there is no longer true accountability in the industry. That said, Max always kept that relationship with the merchant, and so when legal cannabis arrived in Colorado with an understanding of the Cole memos, Max saw no difference in cannabis merchants and provided traditional banker relationships in the industry providing structural support for the industry and there's much, much more welcoming to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the habit can economy. That's two aunts in the word economy, one of the unsung heroes in legal cannabis. Mack Jones, thank you for having me.

Speaker 2: You. Uh, so we've got the, the, the family running around here. You got five grandkids all onsite. Yes. Yeah. And uh, they range in age from young to a almost old is what I've noticed. Is that fair? Yes. You've met them all. Yeah. And your kids are, are kind of young, right? Kind of young. Right. And you, how do you feel as far as A. Are you young? Are you old? How would you answer that? Some days I feel both ways. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I have noticed as I go along here because I'm 41 years old, so I've noticed that I am realizing how uh, how dumb I am kind of week every month.

Speaker 3: Every year I'm getting dumber because of the, I'm realizing how much. I don't know. Yes, right. We're all that way. It should be. Right. So you, I mean it should we call you a banker, but I feel like you, we just talked for about two hours. I feel like you would think that was an epithet if I called you a banker. That's correct. Very much so. Are you, do you know that is the business though, right? Yes. Alright. So we're here. And how do you provide. See, I see the Sinai say low hunter. No hunter hunter, it's not so much the how did we get to log onto the Santa Fe railroad? It's means junction splitting place where the railroad goes north and south and east and west and land is a place where there are more streamlined and less water, more cows and less milk, and you can look further and see less than anywhere else in the world.

Speaker 3: I know I sound like I'm from the Chamber of Commerce. Exactly. Exactly. So this is literally, you know, this is the crossroads. Yes. In in many respects, yes. For the railroad, which was very important to the West as we opened it up. Right. And so this gets into the fact that your business is generation. Yes. Right? Yes. My grandfather came to the bank in the 19 thirties just before the depression and his first job was to take our note case meaning all the people who owed us promissory oldest loans and pledge it to the Federal Reserve so that the bank could stay open. Okay. The 19 thirties, a very specific time in finance, right? Yes. So how did he get into banking then? Really and truly chef, I think that he got in business in a little town in Wiley, I think it is working for the Federal Land Bank and someone said you ought to go to work in La. Hunta I bought in Colorado. Yes. And so he gets in and um, and then how did this become something that everybody, your father, how did your father learned from his grandfather who were talking about that this is something that should be a family business.

Speaker 3: I don't know. It's a, it used to be a pretty easy business. So I guess everybody was, took the easy way out. I got you. We'll get into that. When, when, when you came in, when, when did you start working with your dad? How, how young were you? Well, really, uh, I started when I was about 10 or 11 years old because we used to have a thing in the banking business called counter checks, meaning that it did not have your name or account number on the check. It was just a blank check and you would walk into a store

Speaker 2: and all the banks in the community would have their checks there and you would write it out for whatever it was. And there just weren't any account number. So my job, my first job was to go around and make sure that all the stores had our banks checks in it. Got It. So, so if I have a store I can use whatever I want, I can use whatever, a bag checks that I want, um, and let's just make sure that they're from, uh, from our bank. Well, yeah, that's what we. That was the goal. A little salesman ship their. Yes. And so what was the approach from a what, what was the reasoning? Well, a customer convenience and how so make sure we had our bank checks so you could buy whatever that merchant was selling, I guess for the customer and for well, both being the customer, right.

Speaker 2: Then the merchant, the merchant being in the customer as well. In that case. Uh, what did you, uh, kind of take off the front lines? What were you telling your father when you went out there and kind of said, okay, well I'm trying to get our checks into, to each of these merchants. Uh, and, you know, what, what were you learning along the way? They're nothing was 10 years old. You were 10. You literally were 10 years old. Ten or 12 years old. My goodness. Now what about the child labor laws? We weren't paying attention to that. I wasn't getting paid. Who was just, it was voluntary, so to speak, and in air quotes. Right. What were you doing in your off time at, at 10 or 11? Were you into sports at all? Were you into. What kind of stuff were you into sports at all?

Speaker 2: Nothing. Nothing. Alright. Nature, you know, nothing. No interest. Just making it. Just a business guy at a 10. All right. When you, uh, you know, went through high school, what uh, what, what interests did you, uh, did you come across? Nothing really. Schiff, I meant the, I made the top half of my class possible. You made the top half of your class possible by not being in it? Yes, that's correct. That was so kind of you always a community guy. I guess now if you knew though that we have this family bank which know needs to continue here and I've been doing business in it for you. No more than, or for at least us roughly half my life in high school. Uh, where you're not applying yourself. Was the schooling not measuring up for you? What was the, what was the story there are just really knew what I wanted to do, which was be a banker.

Speaker 2: So did you go to school? Did you go to university or no? Yes, I went one year to a university and majored in poker and beer drinking. We had the same major and my, my dad got paid for that and said okay, come back and be a teller at the bank. That's it. Um, as far as poker is concerned, how good are you? Not Good at all? No, not very good at all. How about the beer drinking? You better actually, yeah. Excellent. All right. So then when you came back, he 18, 19 ish, right. Probably in my early twenties, early twenties. You know, what, what, what was, uh, what were we able to give you at that point? You know what, uh, what were you capable of doing? Not much. All right. What did he give you?

Speaker 3: A teller job. She was just basically taking people's deposits and stamping or receipt and send them on out the door.

Speaker 2: Right. Did you know each and every customer that came in? Because this is not a what? A metropolis.

Speaker 3: No, this is a city of about 6,500 people and yes, we pride ourselves in trying to know who our customers are.

Speaker 2: What was your dad's a thought process as far as he knows that you're going to meet everybody that comes in. You're a teller now, right? He understands that you're going to meet every single customer that we have basically. Did, did he instill any kind of a thought process in you or did he let you learn on your own?

Speaker 3: I think he thought and learning on my own was the best experience

Speaker 2: right after the poker and the beer drinking. Right. He's going to have to figure it out for himself. Right. Um, when, when was it that you started to actually get some, uh, you know, um, responsibility beyond a, do this job for this many hours?

Speaker 3: Probably in the 1990 [inaudible] early 19. You're probably about mid 19, 80 now, but probably about 1985 or a little bit for that. I really don't recall.

Speaker 2: Okay. But in, in the mid eighties, uh, you know, uh, how would you compare banking in the mid eighties to what we have now?

Speaker 3: Hmm. How do I, uh, answer that properly for your listeners deed, it was much simpler. It was much more customer focused. You spent all of your time on time on trying to satisfy whatever your needs of the customer or as opposed to dealing with laws, rules and regulations and best practices. That's the new terminology. In banking, this would be Susan a lot, but it would be your best practice if you did this,

Speaker 2: uh, is, it would be a shame if anything happened to any of your best practices type of deal. It's awful. It's awful. Now, where's the inflection point, do you think? Between all of the various players? Right. Because we again spoke for, for awhile before we turn this on, which will be frustrating for our listeners, but that's my fault, um, between the Regulatory Agency of the government, uh, the bankers themselves, uh, either larger institutions or smaller institutions, uh, the customers following rules, following rules, having good credit, not having good credit, you know, that kind of typhoon, you know, that site clone of a responsible players and non responsible players. Um, what happened along the way from 1985 to 2017?

Speaker 3: Well, you know, we used to get a, it's, it's from the regulators. We used to get a little brown envelope once a month and then had a couple of changes in the rules and the regulations and then the next couple of years it became two envelopes a month and then one every week. And then they just started publishing it online because there are tremendous number of rules that you have to follow in the banking industry. Now there are now there are and they add on every time very highly regulated business because we're dealing with other people's money and the government wants to make sure that we do the right things

Speaker 2: now in dealing with other people's money. Right. You are. You're allowed to, as a banker,

Speaker 3: kind of do a lot, right? Sure, absolutely. That's one of the issues that I have in banking today is is it bankers aren't held accountable for some of the things that they do and they often forget that it's not their money, it's the depositor's money and they do some really screwy things with it and if the banker screws up and loses the money, the only people who really lose or the depositors, if they have more than $250,000 in the bank or the. If you're a borrower and the bank does not succeed or fails, then it puts an awful crush. Especially if you're in the middle of farming season or you're running a cow herd or some of those things,

Speaker 2: all of a sudden it becomes a very big issue. That's correct. Right. How we kind of talked about the relationship, you know, how that's changed between you and regulators. Um, meaning there's just more rules. How has your relationship changed with the depositor? With the consumer

Speaker 3: really hasn't. We've really tried not to change it with the deposit or the consumer when it's changed more with the regulators because they used to be here to help us and now they're here to it feels like to thump us and make us wrong for doing something.

Speaker 2: Well then how does that shake out? You know, and, and we can either leave this in or take it out later, but how does that shake out that these guys are thumping over the head and then when something happens,

Speaker 3: something big happens like in 2008.

Speaker 3: Well we're just going to battle them out. Right? Why wouldn't it be? Well see, this is what we've been thinking. A thumping you over the head about what wouldn't it be that, shouldn't it be that we're banking regulators or usually because it's a bureaucracy of the government, they're usually far behind on what the reality of things are. So they always come in after the fact and bankers actually I think over the years have gotten very good at hiding things from the bank regulators. In fact, I actually gave a speech to the bank regulators on how you hide things. Yeah. A banker. So I'm not going to ask you about was in the speech. That's fine. But I, I will ask you, uh, what do you, what do you think is going on there? In other words, you know, we, we've kind of referenced the fact that not everybody's kind of doing their part in ensuring the best things happen. Safety and soundness is what you call it, safety and soundness. So what's going on there? We got too many regulations and now we've got some bankers that need to kind of go around those regulations just because there's maybe too much.

Speaker 3: But those same actions are then, you know, bringing in more regulations. So what, what's happening there? Well, where's the chicken? Where's the egg? Where's the tail that wags the dog? Where's I'd ask you where the consequences are to the bankers. You referenced 2008 when we had the savings. And loan crisis back in the eighties, some people went to jail and were in prison and found guilty of violating various banking laws in 2008 that you referenced who went to jail. I think there was one guy not counting Bernie madoff, which was different, which was different. But did any of those big guys that were with an insurance company or a bank or go to jail? Not realizing their people to do it? No. You think that will ever happen? Well, do you think it'll ever happen? Because I don't. I don't either. No. Why is that?

Speaker 4: Um,

Speaker 3: that's a good old boys club. They're all, they all went to some Ivy League school together and then they all went to work for an investment firm or a bank together and they're all protecting each other. And then they were to work for the government right backwards and forwards. And this guy's sure you know, we, we, you can see names that go from one to the other and then back and then for. Right. I mean, I guess I'd have to ask you, how many people in various countries around the world or from Goldman Sachs,

Speaker 2: how many people are. Yeah, but many. Well, you know, I think that Goldman Sachs a brings in the best talent from around the world, right?

Speaker 3: Yes. The very best talent and then they let those people go to work in various administrations in various countries and they still have all ties back to Goldman Sachs. But um, what are you going to do about it? You're going to do about it. I mean, I think that,

Speaker 4: um,

Speaker 3: I can't remember the guy's name, seth, that wrote a big article about the squid bankers and in something like, I don't, I don't remember what it, what you're referencing. Yeah. But they're, they have their tentacles everywhere.

Speaker 2: I gotcha. I gotcha. All right. Well let's talk about your tentacles then. Right? Okay. Yeah. Because you're here in Colorado, you happen to be the, the, uh, the family happens to be for nearly a hundred years if not more. Right? Right. All of a sudden these crazy people legalize cannabis, right? First they do medical. Yeah. Then they do adult use. Yes. So you this ordinary average banker, what, what were you thinking when you saw all of this starting to occur?

Speaker 3: Really not much. It's just another line of business that's the is now legal in the state of Colorado that was very and legal and for 33 years I spent, I was a reserve auxiliary policemen and was busting down doors and trying to catch the drug dealers and all of that kind of stuff. And then about 10 years after I quit doing that, it became legal. It was kind of ironic to me actually.

Speaker 2: What was I doing back then type of thing.

Speaker 3: Thanks. I doing back then that now, but the majority of the people in Colorado wanted to have medical and recreational cannabis,

Speaker 2: uh, auxiliary policemen. But you said, you know, when it was all just about getting, you know, getting into banking. Let me make sure that I'm working for the family business. When did the auxiliary police a kind of a thought come into your mind when, when did you add that? Probably about 1970. Oh, so early on.

Speaker 3: Very early on. Yeah. But I, I wasn't 21, so I joined the fire department, the volunteer fire department. Yes. Folks are still volunteer fire departments out there. Indeed. And then when I became 21, I joined the police auxiliary. Why was that important to you? I thought I could help people. I mean that's what policemen do used to be. That you taught your children or I was taught anyway that the policeman is your friend. I was taught the same thing and if you're ever lost or need anything just go right to the police. And if you're doing that as a young person, I, I wonder how many other families or fathers or mothers are doing that with her children because today there seems to be an adverse feeling towards policemen and quite the opposite of when 19 seventies.

Speaker 2: How long were you a. Did you do that? Thirty three years. Okay. Did you notice a shift along the way? Because you're the, you had some sort of badge on. Right? And obviously there's a different feeling now than there was.

Speaker 3: Uh, yeah. Uh, in the 19 seventies in this community, have you found a drunk driver? You didn't necessarily take them to jail, you took them home or following the mom, right? You didn't arrest everybody when you cut teenagers drinking, you made them go clean up the city park as opposed to all of them before the judge. Right. Um, than mothers against drunk drivers came along and, and, uh, basically the city, the county, the State found out they can make money from arresting drunk drivers or giving more tickets or something like that. Obviously it's involved into what it is today.

Speaker 2: Yeah, right around mad, right. Mothers against drunk drivers. We also had the war on drugs and just say no. Yes. When, when that kind of started that kind of rhetoric, uh, which is what I call it. Those are my words, not yours. What uh, did you have a thought as to, uh, you know, that's an interesting thing that they're saying, oh, I was very much against cannabis or other drugs. Cannabis was in the same bucket as everything else as far as you can. And this was in,

Speaker 3: in the same bucket as everything else. And I can remember one time when a 16 officers all on overtime and we went out to make a big drug busts and I asked the lead guy how much marijuana or are we going to get, wasn't cannabis marijuana and that's right. And he said, well, we're, he's a really bad guy. We're hoping to get a safeway sackful of marijuana, which is not much. Not a lot. No.

Speaker 2: The really bad guy with the cannabis. And you said when they started to legalize it, it was just another industry. When did your mind change or what changed your mind as far as cannabis and separating it out?

Speaker 3: Well, I, I, you know, I really don't know. That's a great question. I can't answer that. Uh, I really can't. It just, it was just a business.

Speaker 2: Again, something we might take out. Yes, I got older. Yeah. Now what does that mean, right when, when you say I got older, what do you mean? What we were talking about earlier? I just got older and wiser. I right. And

Speaker 4: um,

Speaker 3: I learned more about the cannabis. I'm not cannabis and other drugs as we went along.

Speaker 4: And um,

Speaker 3: I could never find anybody that said cannabis really was a drug that lead to

Speaker 2: heroin or cocaine or meth or something like this gateway drug talk. You couldn't find evidence of it. No, that's it because it's not true. So that's a, well, I don't know whether it's true or not, but my, my own opinion is just not true. Fair enough. Well, that's what we will leave it there as far as that's concerned. So then, uh, you know, uh, we'll, and we'll kind of go back and forth here, but, but catching back up with a, they legalize it and you're okay with it because, you know, again, you don't see it as a, as a gateway drug. What was the first person to, to, to kind of come to the, to your banking institution and say, uh, hello, I'm in cannabis and I'm interested in doing business with you.

Speaker 3: We said, okay, now did you hesitate longer than that or no? No. And there were no rules or anything. It was just another. He wanted to open up a chicken account and we said, okay, what is the difference between you and the Taco place across the street or the dairy queen down the street? I didn't see much difference in it because the citizens said legalized it

Speaker 2: so that it was the law of this land of Colorado. Yeah, here we go. And here come these, you know, entrepreneurs, these business people who need new need banking. And you said to yourself, okay, fine, why are you different than the Taco truck? Uh, or the Taco, a restaurant, right? Um, how much of that has to do with your Dad's and probably his dad and, and your concept of understanding, you know, that customer and knowing that customer.

Speaker 4: Well,

Speaker 3: couldn't tell they passed it. I mean, it's what the majority of people wanted and if they wanted it, if the majority of people in Colorado wanted it as they voted for it, why shouldn't they have a banking account?

Speaker 2: And I take your point and now I'm asking, uh, as far as this dispensary owner walking in versus the Taco restaurant owner walking and you see those people as the same cut from the same cloth simply because they're entrepreneurs and they need banking. Sure.

Speaker 3: It was really. And truly the very first guy that we ever had a, when I talked to the sheriff's department, he'd been growing cannabis in his garage for 30 years. You know, what we just never could catching right now. The state of Colorado gave him a legitimate reason. He put up $20,000, uh, for his license to have medical. And I remember I said, well, you have to be licensed. That was the only requirement at that time is you had to be licensed. And he brought me in his license, which was one of the typical three on a page receipts that you get. So I called up the state of Colorado Med department. Sure.

Speaker 2: Probably Louis Kosky at the time, right?

Speaker 3: Yeah, I, yes, it was. And it was him and one other girl and I said is just legit. And he says, yeah, but it's just the two of us and we don't have a thing to make a a license yet. Right. But yeah, he's one of the first people that enter our door and was approved for, actually it was entered our door and pay these $20,000 or whatever it was. And he had a license. So yeah, he's legitimate. And that was the only requirement really at that time you had to be a license holder.

Speaker 2: So here's a guy auxiliary police, right? And uh, not, not a guy that had cannabis in his life even, you know, more had cannabis on the, kind of the wrong side of the tracks in his own mind. A generations, at least two of bankers. Um, you know, from the middle of a southern Colorado that's not like, this is a kind of a, a liberal bastion, you know, it's very John Wayne country. There you go. You know why I drive in here, uh, you know, passed a farm after farm after farm. How is it that these were just regular people to you? How is it that these were just regular businesses to you? What do you think it is who instilled in you or how did you instill in yourself the opportunity to simply look at the person for who he or she is?

Speaker 3: Well, back when I started in banking you, you had to judge people on their character. You had to be pretty damn good at it and if you weren't good at it then you're lost money on him. So I guess I developed an innate sense of being able to tell who the good people were, who the bad people. We're not that we haven't done business with some bad people. Sure. But as soon as we identified him as bad way, we had an astronaut deleted the bank.

Speaker 2: There's this concept of a grouping people and putting them into an other bucket. Well, we can't. We can't deal with them, you know, or you know, those people always think this or.

Speaker 3: Well, when I grew up, I, I grew up in a generation and my parents always drove it into me because the community that I live in is about 60 percent Hispanic to be nondiscriminatory. And that was time that we were seeing on our old black and white tvs, a lot of people in the south being mistreated and reading stories in the newspaper and my parents instilled into me to be nondiscriminatory. And so I think to answer some of your earlier questions in a very succinctly, it was discriminatory not to let these people have a bank account. Why would I discriminate against them? Why would I discriminate against somebody because of their religion as a banker or because of the business that they're in? Any reason why would I discriminate against them? And at that particular time when they first passed, medical marijuana banks weren't taking them a cannabis re a medicine retailers because, and I never could understand why it was discriminatory

Speaker 5: and

Speaker 3: I don't know why banks chose to be discriminatory against.

Speaker 2: Well, even even with, we've mentioned the, uh, the Cole memo. Now, I don't remember if it was on Mike or off, but we, we've discussed the Cole memos a few times. The third Cole memo came out with Fincen guidance from the federal government, which says to bankers, you can do this. Yes. And so why do you think with, especially with that guidance, the big guys don't, uh, now they're doing it a little bit, but not certainly not out loud. Right. Why do you think that is?

Speaker 3: Um, I think that. Let's just take Colorado's and example. I don't know how much it passed by, but two percent 50, two percent. Forty eight

Speaker 2: percent. Yeah. Again, uh, whether you're a democrat or Republican, cannabis gets more votes than you and cannabis did for. It was a presidential year for the president, for the senators. Cannabis got the most votes,

Speaker 3: right? So I don't know why. I mean, I really don't know why I'm, they haven't entered into this. I guess they're afraid or afraid of the federal government will find them or whatever. But uh, the Cole memo clearly lays out what a bank has to do in order to be able to bank cannabis.

Speaker 2: Now we are in a new administration, right? We've been talking about a kind of letting these folks come in over the past eight years. We're now in a new administration. How much does your thinking change when, when an administration changes? Meaning, I'm not trying to talk about this administration versus that administration. You've been through a few of them, right? So when we go from, uh, you know, from a, a whatever, if Ford to Carter or quarter Carter to Reagan, you know, as, as far as your business and how much of that is taken into account.

Speaker 3: I don't mean it's the choice of the people. I always think that the people,

Speaker 4: um,

Speaker 3: either they should have their way. I mean, and, and if there are some new law rule or regulation that needs to be on the books should already be there. If the majority wanted it in the majority wanted cannabis in Colorado.

Speaker 2: So the majority, one of cannabis in Colorado, you said, okay, fine. Here come these guys. You got more involved in the space. Meaning, you know, you have more than one customer at least. Right? Uh, as far as you know, the, the industry itself, you know, you, you deal in, uh, any, any number of industries, what do you see in this industry versus a maybe other industries or just simply what do you see in this industry? How do you see, it

Speaker 3: doesn't really matter what I feel it's I'm in business and being in businesses, taking care of your customers. It used to be the, our customers was a small group or small area, but because of cannabis now we almost encompassed the whole state of Colorado.

Speaker 2: Right. Dealing with the whole state. A veil is different than [inaudible], right? A little bit. Just a bit. Yeah, just a bit. We don't walk around with our sweaters over our shoulders tied in a knot here. And that's the only difference. Is that what we're saying? I think the restaurants are better in Vail. Absolutely. How would you, and for those that are not from Colorado, how, how would you kind of share with us here is this and bail? Is that what, what would you say?

Speaker 4: Um,

Speaker 3: well I guess I guess if you're asking my personal opinion, Vale is, um, for the most part, a lot of people who inherited their money and the people in southern Colorado that people are still trying to make.

Speaker 2: Okay. So a politically, again, because now everything has political politics involved in it. Why? Because why? Well, I'll tell Ya. Okay. Yeah, just because I'm a, you and I can have a conversation about politics like we used to be able to. In other words, if you were a Reagan guy and I wasn't you, you and I could get into a conversation about trickle down economics and why you felt that that would work and, and why I felt that maybe it wouldn't. Now if I bring up, um, you know, uh, um, I'm not for trump and maybe you are. And again, these are not facts will the, I'm not for trump, but that's a different conversation. All of a sudden we cannot have a conversation. There is no dialogue, there is no discourse. It's impossible to, to, to talk. Do you feel that way or do you not feel that way? It's impossible talk that way.

Speaker 3: How do you mean you can't because you're either on one side or the other that may result in eventually in some kind of a civil war in America.

Speaker 2: Okay. Here's what I think now, right? I'm trying to. I come from the left. I try to be in the middle and so what I'm trying to do is, is have a conversation with everyone and I feel like I'm a, without knowing you before today, I'm kind of trying to look at people for just who they are, who's the person that just walked in. It doesn't matter if they voted for this guy or that guy. What, what do you think? Okay, now where can we find common ground? Maybe it's not in a political conversation, but maybe it is, you know, uh, or maybe it's just about the type of pie you like. Do you feel like we can get back to evaluating each other that way when the, when the person walks in the door? Let me see how I can find common ground with this person so that I can either give that person alone or not.

Speaker 3: It's going to be a lot easier to do in southern Colorado than it is in New York.

Speaker 2: How so?

Speaker 3: Um, I, I guess there's few people in southern Colorado than there is in New York. I don't know. We don't listen to each other. Seth. We don't listen to other people's point of view because so much of what we hear and do or influenced by whoever or whatever TV station or magazine that we or newspaper that we read.

Speaker 2: Do you remember learning the lesson of thinking

Speaker 3: for yourself? Oh sure. Always have.

Speaker 2: Was it a. was it a lesson or. Or was it instilled in you from the beginning and you don't remember and it's just

Speaker 3: fill in the beginning. I don't remember. Yeah, I mean you have to short through of it and with the all of the devices and facebook and twitter and all that kind of stuff. You really don't know what is fact and fiction anymore or who to believe in my opinion, but somebody likes what somebody says and that guides their way to what newspaper, tv or twitter, facebook person they're going to follow or like or whatever it is. I don't know. It's. It's very disconcerting to me the number one that people don't listened to each other and actually think for themselves and are two initially it'll lead down the path that a path, whatever the path is, or to easily laid down some path that may not be accurate or a good path to go down.

Speaker 2: See you. Thank you. Mentioned technology. Of course some of it has to do with that. There's the ease of being able to, you know, you know, have that in front of me and just the fact that they. It is in front of me that it's been invented and all of that. How much of it is technology versus people changing?

Speaker 3: Well, you know, it used to be when I started in banking that you had to mail everything. If you wanted to commute with communicate with somebody, you, you actually send them a letter that, that people actually read and read wrote for that matter with the pardon and a piece of paper out, a piece of paper and a pen and I can actually remember when we got our first copying machine and it was a two step process to make a photocopy of something and it was very expensive, like $5 or copy or something like that. And now I'm telling you how old I am, which is okay. I don't have a problem with that, but we stopped communicating with each other. We stopped going to coffee with sheets each other. I noticed that my family dinner table and Newman, a lot of my family here today. Um, you know, it seems like everybody's got their head down in their iphone or something.

Speaker 2: But what I heard you say is that, that started to happen before the technology met us where we were and kind of maybe metastasized it, right?

Speaker 3: Yes, yes. Absolutely. Yeah. We stopped talking to each other. We stopped listening to each other. We stopped being reasonable. You know, you're either on one side of the fence or the other, there's no gray anymore.

Speaker 2: Well, so that's the price. I think my problem is going to be that I'm all about the gray [inaudible] and Austin cannabis. We're all about the gray, right? You know, but uh, you know, you've got a, you've, you've got a kind of the, the left kind of comes, I like to think of it as, you know, uh, the left thinks of it as, as a we proposition and the right things. If it is, I proposition kind of pull yourself up from your bootstraps and go and um, and you know, for the past five months we're sitting here and talking actually April, first, April fool's day of 2017. And, and I've been thinking to myself, well, wait a second, I believe in the community and I believe in the fact that we can do this together, but I also know that I have to get up every morning and work really hard. So it's, it's maybe it's we plus I, meaning it isn't either side, it is the combination of the two. Right? And so we're given this false, you know, reasonable. That's reasonable, right? Yes. That's reasonable. So, and what, what's the problem with being reasonable now? I guess.

Speaker 3: Well, I think that's a good question. But you'd better ask it something.

Speaker 2: That's right. Because you're a reasonable guy, right? Most of the time. Most of the time I'm going to ask. My family is left to. What's that?

Speaker 3: I'm glad most of my family has left. Not so that they can't disagree with that, Steve.

Speaker 2: Right? That you're reasonable most of the time. Exactly. Now, let me, let me ask you a couple of tough questions here. About a year ago, you're diagnosed with als. Sure. When you have a question, when you, I'm just not a question yet, I guess. Right? But when you walked into the doctor, what were you expecting and what happened that, that first visit?

Speaker 3: Nothing. I want him to find a cure for what ails me. What was going on at the time, uh, was having trouble walking and standing and falling them down a lot. And you had no idea why. No idea why. And my local physician here, you know, we still have country doctors out here that know, you know, I've been in practice as long as I've been in banking. Right. And his father was a doctor for the town before that. Right. So this is, that's how smaller community Ohio

Speaker 2: we in New York would call it that Americana. Right. I don't know why you're in New York would call it. I don't know very many people from New York. Well, I'm pleased. I'm pleased to meet you. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3: Um, and I forgot the question. Oh, als, uh, and the doctor spent about 10 minutes minutes with you and said you have als. And I said, okay, what does that mean? Well, I knew what that means. You did know what it meant. Oh, sure. Okay. Yeah. Just means I'm going to die. Did He tell you

Speaker 2: it? Did he give you any kind of timeframe? Did he tell you this is what's going to happen over this next couple of years?

Speaker 3: Whatever course. That's the first question you asked the guy after he starts telling you, you have all the first grader while I'm, do I have to live? Right? What did he say? I don't know. That's what he said and this is the guy that knows and yeah, it was just the guy that knew. He said, I don't know. And I said, well, what's the course of treatment? The stem cell injection is, what are we going to do here? What pill are you going to give me? Right. You said there is no cure, but the less you do, the longer you'll live. And I said to him while I've been a banker for over 45 years, I don't do shit

Speaker 2: anyway. I've been given back hours left. I'm going to live a long time because I've been a banker for a long time.

Speaker 3: So basically, uh, I had my diagnosis, I had my course of treatment, which is the less you do, the longer you'll live. And then of course as friends and found out about it, they all had something for me to do, but there's nothing you to do, right? It's just a, it happens to be a disease that there is no cure for.

Speaker 2: So my mom, we talked earlier, my mom, uh, was diagnosed with amyloidosis, which is a kind of a blood disease and a rare one to attack the soft tissue. And so for three years, you know, um, she kinda got worse and worse and you do find out really who your friends are at that point. You know, at the, at the time I was dating a girl, she really wanted nothing to do with it. Not that that relationship ended obviously for the better. And you know, these, these friends that were friends, uh, you know, maybe became less. These other friends that were friends became more and some friends became a inextricable. There are friends that I have now that will always be my friends because of that time simply because they would not leave.

Speaker 4: Right.

Speaker 2: So as far as your family, I saw, you know, a bunch of people come through here. They are on board, right. What are you learning from your family and from your friends on, on, on your journey? I had a lot of friends that I have a lot of friends that I've forgotten. Right. That's right. What about God and about their friendship? What about the that you had forgotten about and that you're reminded now? Is that what we're saying? Yes. Because here they come, they keep keep coming back type of thing.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I haven't done. And even strangers, um, it's very all strangers who had been very conciliatory towards. I mean they don't ask what your disease are, but you know, obviously I'm sitting here in a wheelchair and there are still good people out there in America.

Speaker 2: I, I adore for Ya. I'm with Ya. And, and this whole thing is built for those people, you know, that's all. That's the only people we're talking to. You know, if you've gotten nefarious a kind of thoughts and intentions, uh, might as well turn this off. That's it. That's exactly right. Which brings me to the reasonable thing, right? You and I have established that at least we both think that we're reasonable. We, that's our goal. How, how do you, as a reasonable person reckoned with, with what we're doing here with the als, how does that make any sense whatsoever to you?

Speaker 3: Wow. Um, it just is what it is. Can't. I can't do anything about it. There's no cure for it.

Speaker 4: Um,

Speaker 3: there, I wish I could become an advocate more of an I wish I had more of an audience to become an advocate for als because it, from my understanding of it, there are not, there's only about 5,000 people in the whole United States that have als.

Speaker 2: Is it just 5,000?

Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's not profitable for somebody to come up with a cure to come up with a cure obviously. And that kind of comes and goes, but only about 100 people in Colorado are diagnosed with als. Um, it's very difficult. Or there's a wonderful movie out called gleason, which I would encourage your listeners to watch if you want to know more about hail list. He was a former NFL player for 34. He was diagnosed with, with that. And I wish I could meet that guy some day.

Speaker 4: Um,

Speaker 3: and quite honestly, my research with regard to a slash and a cure, there's only two things that work and that shack puncture in cannabis and all, it does slow it down. How does the, how's the cannabis going for you, if I may ask? Well, I'm, I actually had a guy in California, a doctor in California that I think helped write that medical book that every dispensary has every medical dispensary. He actually wrote me an email and said, I can't give you advice, but if, if you were my patient, my father, this is what I would tell you to do. Which was a

Speaker 3: consume or use or ingest, 100 milligrams of cbd every day and vape once an hour with Antica thc. Yeah. And then I talked to one of the great guys in the cannabis industry in Colorado. Pete Williams of medicine man. Yes. The enigmatic people. Yes. And Pete recommended that I take a thousand milligrams a day. I just can't get enough off the shelves of his shop to ingest, but they're were wonderful people over medicine. Man, you got, he got your Pete Williams. She got your Andy Williams. She got your salary Vanderveer? Yes. What have you learned from that family? Oh God. So much. They're such a loving family. They really are. It's all about the love over there. And then yesterday is probably one of them I've learned. How long has your podcasts going to be? It's as long as we talk. I could talk for hours about them. They're just great people, very nice people. Everybody that I do business with in the cannabis business or for the most part are very nice people.

Speaker 2: How, how, how does that, just because we're back here, we know within, in business and banking. How does that compare? Because that's my take as well, right? I talked to people outside of cannabis, you know, I'm a, I do some work outside of cannabis and then I come, uh, you know, to do my cannabis economy podcast and all of these people. I mean there's, it's just amazing the different types of people that uh, we both come across, but for the most part, not everybody, but for the most part, these are some kind of great folks. I would say that 99 percent of them are great folks. How does that compare to other industries that you're working? Not to talk bad about the other clientele, but what I'm asking is, you know, what is it about this industry, do you think? Why does it, why, why does it attract those specific types of characters wouldn't to sending different from many other industries? First of all. Okay. That's a false premise on my part. Sorry.

Speaker 3: Okay. Um, I think, I think that for the most part, a, of the clientele and the people that I know, they really want to do some good in the world. They really want to make a difference in the world with this little we'd been out there, um, and I know some of them are doing or on the verge of making, doing some great things with, in the medical field, at least with the recreational. That's a personal choice, you know, and that's been around forever.

Speaker 2: The idea, the concept of personal choice, personal choice with the recreational. Yes, of course. Of course.

Speaker 3: Uh, that's up to you. Um, but I think that the medical part of this thing, I really wish I could live long enough to see,

Speaker 2: well, we're gonna we're gonna keep putting folks on here and make sure that that information gets out no matter what. So you should know that I want to ask you about mentors. I want to ask you about, you know, you had your dad, right? If, if you learned one thing from your dad, what was it? Patience with other people or just in general? Interested in general and keep your mouth shut. Nobody here wants to hear. I guess the greatest thing I learned from my dad was keep your mouth shut because nobody wants to hear what you have to say, which is why I keep wondering why you're sitting here in my dining room and wanting to. Colorado. I'm going to take this tangent here. I'm going to take this tangent because you said I've got the wrong guy. Right? And because it's really the team that you have that have done any of the work that we're talking about and I haven't done anything. There you go. I haven't done anything. I have the greatest team in the world now, but you know, you hired them all, right? No, you didn't hire them all. Know who hired them, somebody some day, one of them, someone else in the, in the organization is responsible for hiring the others. You know, I think that's A. I think we're on an important lesson here for years. Your

Speaker 3: listeners that maybe are starting up the cannabis business or something with the cannabis business.

Speaker 4: Um,

Speaker 3: where's the. If you think of a coke bottle, where is the bottleneck in the coke bottle? What happened at the bottleneck? I would imagine at the top? Sure. Yes. It is indeed the top at the top. So I can't take credit for anything but know that the card bank and trust is done in the banking industry. You have the people and the major thing that I would tell anybody is don't be the bottleneck in your business. Let your people all you have to ascribe to the theory that everybody who walks through the door wants to do a good job. They didn't walk in the door to say, I'm going to screw the bank up, or whatever business you're in that day. They all want to do a good job. It's just they have a different competency competency levels.

Speaker 2: A leader does have to set the mission and the vision,

Speaker 3: which then get the hell out of the way. There you go. What vision did you set? I just okayed the doing business with a medical cannabis.

Speaker 2: Yes. That's. And that's the one thing I think we're having. We happen to be having a bigger conversation and, and when, when the, the team looks at you or, or you know, it's their first day or you know, the first day of the first person that you hired or whatever it was. What vision do they know is in that institution?

Speaker 3: I don't know. What's the purpose of the institution? Well, you know, we spent in early in my life I spent a lot of time writing mission statements and vision statements and that was a whole bunch of worthless stuff. Obviously you can sum it up in one sentence to make money. Okay. It's actually easy. Sure. Okay.

Speaker 4: Um,

Speaker 3: and then as you make a little money, then you start looking to say,

Speaker 4: um,

Speaker 3: what else can I do? So then you start looking at your friends and the community and, and now we're looking at the whole state.

Speaker 2: I never got the sense that uh, you go in to work every day was about uh, making money. It isn't okay, but you stay, you, the institution has to make money so that it's here tomorrow so that it can do more business space so they can pay their people so that they can do more business. That's it. Is it, is to serve the community, is it to serve the customer? Is it to.

Speaker 3: Well the community is the customer. So I guess I'd have to say it's to serve the community to make it a better place that we all want to live because at least in southern Colorado, if the bank,

Speaker 3: if it opens its checkbook and his liberal with lending policies, the community is going to do fabulously for a little while, for just a little bit. If it closes it down the checkbook. And then that's why you drove through so many towns that Martin necessarily doing so great that weren't doing so great. Right? Yeah. So it's somewhere in between there and you know, so that's a. and that's a tough balancing act to try and do because you try to have to try and forecast what the economy's going to do, what the administration is going to get elected and what their views on things are going to be.

Speaker 2: So, uh, I want to get back to mentors, right? So we talked about your dad patients and kind of keep your mouth shut. Just keep your mouth shut. That's going to do the best, right? Uh, what other mentors have you found along the way?

Speaker 3: Where else would we discussed offline here? Buckminster fuller was a big influence on me and he hated bankers and I picked that up. There's, I don't have any banker friends. I don't, that don't work for me. Um, because bankers in general are a bunch of jerks. And um, as we discussed earlier, when somebody came in and one in a checking account for the cannabis business, like a lot of people always thought we had to have a box of ipads out there for customer service when they crawled him begging or which is just ridiculous to me. So

Speaker 2: the concept of that, the nature of that relationship is a

Speaker 3: and you know, why are people scared to go into the bank and talk to somebody.

Speaker 2: And so that's why you say when, when you say, when he said when Buck Mr said, and when you say I don't like baggers, they're, they're kind of pushing that theory, right?

Speaker 3: Yeah. And just taken hinton with that Bronco taken aback by Buckminster Fuller's comment like that. But now he's right. Anchors are a bunch of jerks. Who else along the way Marshall Thurber and why? Because he helped me find myself. What does that mean? Most people, uh, in my belief, most people live their lives the way they think. Some other relative mother, father, grandfather, grandmother, uncle or aunt wants them to live their lives. And that goes back to being your own man discussion that we had a little earlier. You need to find yourself and who you are not live your life like you think someone else should want to do, want you to live that life, you know, and it, and my wife Perilyde paralleled my grandfather's life, or

Speaker 4: very

Speaker 3: great number of years until I met Marshall Thurber.

Speaker 2: What changes did you make or what did you realize or how did you come out of that? A different person?

Speaker 3: I think the biggest change that my employees, the employees at the bank, not mine, but employees at the bank would say is, is that I quit yelling and screaming and being a jerk and my trying to micromanage everything. And that's when, I mean, he taught me about the bottleneck at the top of the bottle. That the top is where things always get screwed up and slowed down. And I think we see that in today's society as well. Sure.

Speaker 4: Um,

Speaker 3: so I think, I think that any taught me about responsibility, meaning you told me.

Speaker 2: So. So we, we went through an exercise, right? Let's, let's just play that again, right? You ask me first to what was it? Demonstrate love, right. Demonstrate love. And I said I'll, I'll go up to, you know, like Andy Williams and give him a hug and a kiss that's easy. Boom. And then demonstrate trust. And then I said, you know, I'll just go to andy again and I'll, I'll fall back, you know, into his arms without looking, you know, I trust that he's going to catch me. That type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. And then you asked me to do the same thing for response to that. I couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. Right. How do you do it?

Speaker 3: Right? You have to find out to find the most of us in our lives. Lay blame and justify things and don't take responsibility.

Speaker 2: I've, uh, come upon the one, I'm pointing my finger at someone. There are three fingers pointing back at me and so then you know, they are more fingers pointing back at me to kind of adjust and figure out why I'm pointing that that other finger and pay more attention to the three fingers than you do to the one that points away from me. Good point. And maybe let's do. Do you have an alternative a thought there?

Speaker 3: No, no, I think it makes sense. You're, you're reasonable.

Speaker 2: Is, is the, is the entire journey here about finding that responsibility about finding a way to be responsible? Is that the biggest thing?

Speaker 3: Sure. I mean I would ask the question and ask your listeners to think about the question. Are they responsible because it's a very misused word, very misused word. I'm a responsible parent. I'm responsible father or mother, or am I responsible somebody?

Speaker 4: Are they really?

Speaker 3: I mean, we have so much. It seems to me we have so much chaos on the world that we have people who don't take responsibility for themselves and lay blame and justify whatever dilemma there and I guess or whatever they feel is a dilemma they really need to.

Speaker 4: Hm.

Speaker 3: Take her course on how to be responsible, how can it be so chaotic at a local level? At a personal level.

Speaker 4: Okay.

Speaker 3: If each of us are as responsible as we can be, maybe we're not. Maybe we're not. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't. I don't think we are.

Speaker 4: I mean,

Speaker 3: back to banking, 2008 where we were a minute ago. What bankers in jail for 2008 for the Mesh in 2008. And again there's the one guy who's like kind of three little rungs lower than anybody and there's nobody. No, I think there's a couple of guys who went to jail and you're right, there were three rungs lower and yet we read everyday about how you're responsible bankers are and nothing ever seems to come of it. You see, you see this, that whole thing happening again. Oh absolutely. And in, in the next five or six years. So I see.

Speaker 3: Barring US getting in the war, I see that happening again, that there'll be another huge financial crisis. So it'll probably make 2008 look like a black child as a mild event. And my reaction to you is how could it not, which is, which is certainly not good if that's what I think. Of course you're right. Well, I don't know if I am. Only time will tell, but they're, in other words, there's been nothing put into place. There has been no change in behavior in any way that would make you think otherwise. No. And the bigger banks are bigger than they were before 2008. And, and now they're all too big to fail. I mean truly from New York City mean you're from New York City, you have limited choices. So is there a community bank in New York State? And there is, there's a community bank that now is larger than it used to be because it put five community banks together. Right? Right. So now, I don't know, I'm not so sure how community of a banket is because it's a, it's a, nobody has a community banker,

Speaker 4: uh, the one

Speaker 3: a community banker ought to be, or a personal banker even that, that word is misused. A personal banker, personal banker.

Speaker 2: Why is that? Uh, how many, how many. I mean, let's say you shifted,

Speaker 3: you were in La Junta, Colorado and you needed to buy a car to get home immediately. Sure. How many could you call your banker up and say, Hey, I'm writing a check for a car. Can you hold it until I get home? I've done that many times. Right? So you have to know who your customers are and bankers don't know who their customers are and that's evidenced by the fact that every time you go into whatever brand should do business with, there's a different somebody there that you have to talk to and you have to reacquaint yourself with.

Speaker 2: I, it's interesting. I, uh, I just moved in New York City and I go into my branch and now the branch manager, I, I made friends with her if you will. And now every time I go in I do see her and we know each other's names. So I am at least trying to know my banker for that matter, you know. But you told me where you bank. Yeah. I would really sincerely honestly suggest otherwise that you move to community bank. I will. I will find one. How about that? That's, that's my lesson learned, right? I've got A. I've got three final questions for you. Sure. I'll tell you what they are and then I'll ask you them in order. I could, we could go on forever. But again, there's people listening so you know, we got to make sure that. Yeah, exactly. So, uh, what has most surprised you in cannabis? Because you know about it. What has most surprised you in life? That's the second question. On the third, uh, the third question is on the soundtrack of your life. One track, one song that's got to be on there, but that's last. First thing's first. What has most surprised you in cannabis? We talked about, you know, seeing it as every other business, we talked about, the fact that you are indeed a cannabis patient. What's most surprised you in cannabis?

Speaker 3: How far they've gotten in such a short period of time?

Speaker 2: Is there. We talk about.com and you know, the, the trajectory of that. And, and this is certainly even outpacing that which was, which outpaced anything before it, you know. And by definition, have you ever seen anything like this? The pace of this industry?

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 2: No one. There's so much more to go. Yeah. Just at the. We're at the front. The starting line.

Speaker 3: Yes. At the very start. I mean, the gun has name. Yeah,

Speaker 2: gone off yet. We're still stretching. There we go. We're still stretching. It's important to stretch. What has most surprised you in life?

Speaker 3: Wow. I guess I to think about that, how fortunate I am. There are so many wonderful people that I've met or known that have either taken me under their wing or been my friend

Speaker 2: or a. had your wing go over them for that matter. Right? You've taken some people under your wing. No, you were. It's the, uh, the ego is a, I can't take how much ego you have. Rights, you know, I'm sure it's the last thing. Maybe this podcast will never make it right. No, I, I think we'll be fine. But, uh, the, the amount of ego that you don't have is stunning, is all I'll say on the soundtrack of your life. Mac. One track one song that's got to be on there.

Speaker 3: Well, you asked the most difficult questions and you didn't send them in advance.

Speaker 2: No, no, no. We never send them in events.

Speaker 4: Um,

Speaker 3: you know, I really don't know. That's all right.

Speaker 2: Let me ask you, this is music and important thing for, you know, particularly when you were a kid. What kind of music did you listen to?

Speaker 4: Um,

Speaker 3: well, whatever was popular at the time, you know, rock and roll, right? Chuck Berry. I'm not that old.

Speaker 2: So then what are we talking? We're talking about what? The Rolling Stones, the rolling stones you had your Beatles, right?

Speaker 3: Beatles, rolling stones, all that kind of stuff. Right. I don't know of one song. I, I, I'm tone deaf. You know, I probably have 400 songs on my or 500 songs on my ipad and I haven't listened to it for a year. It's not about the song, it's not about the song, it's about life.

Speaker 2: What message would you give everybody then, you know, walking out of this, uh, interview here, what, what, uh, what would you like folks to kind of be thinking about beyond that responsibility piece that we talked about it?

Speaker 3: Well, if, if there's any bankers listening to this, um, don't be afraid to give him the business of banking cannabis.

Speaker 4: Um,

Speaker 3: I don't understand why the big boys won't do it. I just don't simply understand it because they have the software, they have the people. They have tremendously more resources than our little main concern. Then Colorado House, and yet they refuse to do it for whatever their reasons are, which are justified in their minds. But to anybody else who's thinking about getting banking candidates, I'd say do it, you know, the regular. I don't know about it yet. It's, it's another crop. I mean, regular skin come in and look at my loan portfolio on site. You're unreasonable with this farmer because we know what it costs to plant or grow hay or corn or Alfalfa,

Speaker 3: but nobody's the examiners, the bank examiners yet on it costs to grow cannabis. There's no, there's no easily recognized standards, there's no any of that kind of stuff, but for the most part, 99 percent of the people aren't just trying to do the right thing and support their families, make a living and bankers should bank cannabis people in the cannabis business. They really should. Because after all here we are at the starting line, right? Yeah. We really are and and my hope was is that we could be a service to the people in our communities and I find out we need to be a service to the people of the state of Colorado because there's only 10 or 12 maybe banks that are banking them and, and I would guess that only 20 percent of the retail medical or recreational cannabis businesses are banked in Colorado.

Speaker 3: And that's a shame for all the reasons that you've probably discussed with patient access to taxation for schools, for the whole talking about the banking part of finance. It's just, you know, it's unsafe. It's, I mean, dumping $300,000 if you're a big cannabis dispensary and dumping 300,000 out on a table and spending two days with Phil in your envelope on a weekly basis is idiotic. I mean, and it's still happening. It's still happening. It's still happening and people that work for the cannabis people, they're the forgotten people right now because they can't get government guaranteed mortgage loan, which most young people need when they're starting out as they need some kind of a government guaranteed lawn and you put a trimmer to cannabis business on your application and you're thrown out automatically and that's it. It affects so many more people. And particularly in Colorado, I mean, um, we have a branch in Pueblo and I believe there's about 1200 people that work in the cannabis business.

Speaker 3: What would you take a class of people based on their, their religion and say, well, we don't do business with them. We don't do business with them. Why would you do that? I just, that's beyond the realm of, of my comprehension. I can understand that. And the bigger banks throw, people will work for cannabis businesses out there, individuals. So the bottom line is, is that uh, not only are the people that own the medical licenses not being banked, but the people that work for them can't do what they need to do to make lives better for

Speaker 2: themselves. And, and, and there you have sir, why I am sitting here, which is if these businesses can't bank, they have to be in cash, which is unsafe. If they're employees can't bank, they can't live their lives. You have literally saved lives and made lives better already. And for that, I thank you because you have normalized cannabis here in the state of Colorado and you have done that and you have done a big thing. My people, I have your, I'm sorry, your institution has and you had nothing to do with it, but I still thank you mack. I really appreciate it. Thank you for coming to my house. Of course. Yes.

Speaker 1: And there you have Mac Jones. That's an inspirational guy. That's a good man. That's a guy who, he's a business person but as a person. And that's what I took away from him, as well as focusing on responsibility among many, many other things. Thanks to Max so much. Thanks for listening.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.