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Ep.292: Heather Jackson, Realm of Caring

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.292: Heather Jackson, Realm of Caring

Ep.292: Heather Jackson, Realm of Caring

Heather Jackson returns and takes us through the Realm of Caring registry which is one of only three like it in the world. And in one of three Realm of Caring associated studies, past Cannabis Economy guest Ryan Vandrey is researching patients in the registry to provide further information on how the plant affects conditions by testing with vs. without the plant. And they’re going as far as providing information on the economic impact of choosing cannabis as a solution. Heather provides an overview of what’s happening at Realm of Caring now- and how they’re call center, which they call their care center is providing refined feedback to families that need it.

Transcript:

Speaker 2: Heather Jackson returns and takes us through the realm of caring registry, which is one of only three like it in the world and in one of three realm of caring associated studies. Past Cannabis economy guests, Ryan boundary is researching patients in the registry to provide further information on how the plant affects conditions by testing with versus without the plant, and they're going as far as providing information on the economic impact of choosing cannabis as a solution. Heather provides an overview of what's happening at realm of caring now and how their call center, which they call a care center, is providing refined feedback to families that needed welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the hammer can economy. That's two ends and the word economy. Heather Jackson.

Speaker 1: That's next Friday. Who knows where I'm going to be. Where are you going to be next Friday? We're going to be getting ready for our walk. Okay. Tell us about the walk Heather Jackson. So we have our national walk every October. Okay. And so that's what we'll be taking place on Saturday, the 14th in Colorado Springs and then there's virtual options for folks who are not. I'm here virtual so I don't even have to walk in the walk to walk the walk where your slippers and hang out on the couch and, and. Yeah. And benefit a great cause. This is don't have to leave your house. I mean you meet up with your friends or your reimagining the way people walk. We're reimagining the way people do everything. It's what we're doing. So you have a new realm of caring, which I mean if anybody, Heather Jackson's name, they know realm of caring and if anybody knows the realm of caring, they don't necessarily know your name.

Speaker 1: They should but they don't have to. They may not. Right. Sometimes that's a good thing, right? Sure. Yeah. I don't need to know. Hi everybody. Exactly. Like they should know the operator's name, whoever they're talking to or whatever. Right. But they don't need to know heather's name, but there's a tagline now that we definitely should know. Yeah. So I mean we've really been organic and our process processes that at rambled caring and just responding to what's needed so we are reimagining the way that people think and talk and respond to cannabis and the people who use it. Perfect. So that's very well said and what I want to do now is go backwards to make sure that everybody's caught up so that we can go forward. Great. You and me and paige had a nice conversation which is an episode which people can go back to.

Speaker 1: Great. But just for the purposes of saving people time, when was that? Do you remember when? That was? A year and a half ago, I'm guessing would guess that. Okay. But what I'm asking is how did you get to the point of, you know, what we should do our little tagline and this is what it should be. So you know, all the way back when, you know, let's just quickly rediscover your way into cannabis here. Sure. Right. So you know, what happened as far as why I'm in the industry in because of my son. So I, yeah, if you've followed wherever scaring, you know that it is ran by a bunch of parents who had sick kids and so my son was receiving hospice palliative services and had a very severe seizure disorder and suffered for almost a decade and so we started using cannabis in July of 2012 and it puts a Chi's condition in remission.

Speaker 1: Literally his seizures stopped within three months. And so of course I'm extremely passionate about this and the plant and felt I'm not just an obligation but a real need to inform the community about this option. I didn't hear about it from my doctor and so a lot of families are really out of medical options and those were primarily the families that we serve. So we wanted to find the nearest mountain top and, and, and begin to say, tell these stories and help families use cannabis realm of caring is on the top of a hill or at least on the side of the hill. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. So you actually did find a mountain top in, in Colorado Springs. People don't have to go to you because you have this whole phone bank thing. How did you decide on that? Well, originally what we did was we had a private facebook group and that was what we could do and we would respond to inquiries that way.

Speaker 2: Heather Jackson returns and takes us through the realm of caring registry, which is one of only three like it in the world and in one of three realm of caring associated studies. Past Cannabis economy guests, Ryan boundary is researching patients in the registry to provide further information on how the plant affects conditions by testing with versus without the plant, and they're going as far as providing information on the economic impact of choosing cannabis as a solution. Heather provides an overview of what's happening at realm of caring now and how their call center, which they call a care center, is providing refined feedback to families that needed welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the hammer can economy. That's two ends and the word economy. Heather Jackson.

Speaker 1: That's next Friday. Who knows where I'm going to be. Where are you going to be next Friday? We're going to be getting ready for our walk. Okay. Tell us about the walk Heather Jackson. So we have our national walk every October. Okay. And so that's what we'll be taking place on Saturday, the 14th in Colorado Springs and then there's virtual options for folks who are not. I'm here virtual so I don't even have to walk in the walk to walk the walk where your slippers and hang out on the couch and, and. Yeah. And benefit a great cause. This is don't have to leave your house. I mean you meet up with your friends or your reimagining the way people walk. We're reimagining the way people do everything. It's what we're doing. So you have a new realm of caring, which I mean if anybody, Heather Jackson's name, they know realm of caring and if anybody knows the realm of caring, they don't necessarily know your name.

Speaker 1: They should but they don't have to. They may not. Right. Sometimes that's a good thing, right? Sure. Yeah. I don't need to know. Hi everybody. Exactly. Like they should know the operator's name, whoever they're talking to or whatever. Right. But they don't need to know heather's name, but there's a tagline now that we definitely should know. Yeah. So I mean we've really been organic and our process processes that at rambled caring and just responding to what's needed so we are reimagining the way that people think and talk and respond to cannabis and the people who use it. Perfect. So that's very well said and what I want to do now is go backwards to make sure that everybody's caught up so that we can go forward. Great. You and me and paige had a nice conversation which is an episode which people can go back to.

Speaker 1: Great. But just for the purposes of saving people time, when was that? Do you remember when? That was? A year and a half ago, I'm guessing would guess that. Okay. But what I'm asking is how did you get to the point of, you know, what we should do our little tagline and this is what it should be. So you know, all the way back when, you know, let's just quickly rediscover your way into cannabis here. Sure. Right. So you know, what happened as far as why I'm in the industry in because of my son. So I, yeah, if you've followed wherever scaring, you know that it is ran by a bunch of parents who had sick kids and so my son was receiving hospice palliative services and had a very severe seizure disorder and suffered for almost a decade and so we started using cannabis in July of 2012 and it puts a Chi's condition in remission.

Speaker 1: Literally his seizures stopped within three months. And so of course I'm extremely passionate about this and the plant and felt I'm not just an obligation but a real need to inform the community about this option. I didn't hear about it from my doctor and so a lot of families are really out of medical options and those were primarily the families that we serve. So we wanted to find the nearest mountain top and, and, and begin to say, tell these stories and help families use cannabis realm of caring is on the top of a hill or at least on the side of the hill. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. So you actually did find a mountain top in, in Colorado Springs. People don't have to go to you because you have this whole phone bank thing. How did you decide on that? Well, originally what we did was we had a private facebook group and that was what we could do and we would respond to inquiries that way.

Speaker 1: Uh, but then people need, I mean they have detailed and so they need to be able to reach out and we used to do that via volunteers and we had about 30 volunteers and now one 800 phone number that people could call. And hopefully we answered your call because you couldn't leave a message because we just couldn't get back to the number of inquiries, you know. And so it was, I'm very systems oriented, very customer service oriented, Nim that family that needed to have that information. Right? So we said, you know, we need to do this, right? And we developed a call center, we call it our care center filled with care specialists and they're really experts. So you're able to call, talk with them about your particular situation. And we guide them to what the data and the research would suggest. So if someone were to call and say, you know, I'm dealing with Migraines, will cannabis help me?

Speaker 1: We asked them if they're in front of their computer and we show them on our website where the research is and, and then they can make an informed decision about whether they want to use cannabis as therapy and if they do, then we're able to walk them through some dosing protocols, some things to know how to have this conversation with your doctor or things that you need to consider, um, contra indications, all of those things. And again, that information is based off of the data that we've collected in our registry. So it's very, you know, as scientific as we can get it. Well wait a second. You started to collect the data into your registry. At some point we didn't start. It was excel spreadsheets. So originally we just, we knew that we needed to do a good job of. And, and that's not, it's not an unusual thing for, for moms and dads who have sick kids to track everything, you know, to have that trusty notebook and you're right.

Speaker 1: For our situation, we're writing down seizure activity, we're writing down his mood, what he ate, how long he slept, um, all the therapies, different supplements and trying to figure out is anything working here. Um, and so this is something that, you know, the families we serve, my family, we're very used to doing this. So originally, yes, we had a little files and we did excel spreadsheets and we started to discover some trends in dosing and, and it's really changed a lot. So what we used to recommend it really changes over refined and, and has been refined and as science has progressed as well. So when we found out halflife information, which happened in the course of the last five years, you know, how long this lasts in our body. And we said, Oh, uh, that gave us some good information to say we probably should slow down the titration and how people work up on their dosing and things like that.

Speaker 1: And again, we're not medical professionals. We're not giving anyone medical advice. We're giving you information that we want you to talk with your doctor about and we understand and that, that some doctors are available and open to this and some aren't. And so you took the information that you had in and pushed it out, but that wasn't good enough for you, Heather Jackson. You want it to also kind of work on the information that was coming in. And so you've introduced me to an, a couple of different folks and now you're introducing me to more people. Let's at least start with people that have been on the podcast. Sure. Uh, our old friend Ryan Vandrey. What's he up to these days, right? Yeah. Ryan Vandrey as I'm an associate professor at Johns Hopkins University, and really he's a behavioral pharmacologist and he's been studying cannabinoids for about 18 years now.

Speaker 1: And so when we wanted to do a couple of things, we wanted to be able to otherwise we needed to validate what we were seeing. Otherwise, my son's story and the thousands of others have families that we reach out to and impact. It's just a good story. So it's anecdotal, anecdotal, which makes me want to swallow back a little bio, you know what I mean? It's like, no, it's more than anecdotal. It's my life. And at some point there's this, you know, this huge pile of anecdotal evidence that you've got to do something with. So how do we stop calling this anecdotal? Right. Exactly. And so we decided we really wanted to do this as scientifically as we could. We knew that we needed to work with a reputable institution, which we did. We knew that it needed to be someone who wasn't biased because I am and he's not.

Speaker 1: I've spoken to them, we can listen to that overnight. I remember listening to that interview and I said, sounds like Ryan, if you try and get them into a corner and talking about all the positive things about this play, he just won't go there and you know, needs more science and we need more evidence and we need more and we need more. And that's great. We, that's why we needed him. And so we formalized what we used to do in excel spreadsheets and now it's like the registry on steroids and we use all validated, lack of a better analogy. I mean, that's just because that's the wrong medicine, I think. Right? Right, exactly. So, you know, it's, it, it uses all validated measures, which is really important. Uh, it's, it's, it has to be that way for, for science to take a look at this and say this, this actually means something.

Speaker 1: You can't just say, what's your pain one through 10, there are validated measures for sleep and anxiety and depression and many, many other things. And so one of the really important things that Johns Hopkins brought to the table was helping us with those validated measures because as a mom and as someone who's heard these stories for so long, I'm interested in a lot of things that you can't measure or is subjective like caregiver burden. For example, how, how, how tired am I? At the end of the day, how many hours did I spend taking care of my son? Things like that. The fact that it's a human, the fact that it's a mother, in fact, that it's so many things that Ryan is not going to be focused on or isn't focused on. He's focused on, oh, you, you ptsd. Got It. Okay. What? X, Y, z. It was a really a beautiful marriage of what we know we need to be collecting on this community.

Speaker 1: What science says is good. So what are what's called core data elements would, you know, make sure we're asking all those questions. Um, and then, you know, one of the things that was really important to me is the economic impact of using this plant. So does it. When I use cannabis with my son, does it cost us less money? Does it cost the insurance company less money? And so that is a really big part of the registry. So he's doing that. He's focused on economic impact as well. Well that's in that, that's information that I wanted to collect that is in our registry. So this is a great marriage between John's realm of caring. No, but I figured that it was just about the medicine and the medicines impact on the patient and what you're saying is part of that includes the economic impact as well.

Speaker 1: Fantastic. Yeah, and and so you collect that for several years and then you can begin to see like right away we saw on the baseline data between people who use cannabis and those who don't use cannabis. So this is the other really exciting thing about this registry is all of the rest of the registries that exist and there are three, only three large ones. The one in the United States is done by realm of caring. The one in Canada, I'm collects very limited information and it is done by a researcher called mark where, and it's Dr Mark where of course I had him on through lyft. Absolutely. That's great. Wonderful Guy. And he has actually currently the largest registry in the world. It's also connected to the Health Canada's system. So if you want to receive your cannabis, you need to give your reporting. So it's a pretty sweet situation for him because people are going to obviously be entering their data.

Speaker 1: They're not going to fall off. He was also on the um, you know, the task force as well. And then Israel has one as well. Now both Israel and Canada are not collecting on nonusers so you don't have this control group and we have a very strong cohort of people who are not using. So now we can take a look at the differences between, um, those who are using cannabis and those who aren't. And that's really Ryan, you know, for the next few months here. He's focused on that. Yeah, absolutely. We, I think when I spoke to him offline, he said maybe first quarter, second quarter ish. Yes. I'm praying first quarter, second quarter really is when we can probably expect exactly because podcast land knows no time of 28 days. Yeah, that's exactly right. Alright, good. And uh, as far as Israel is concerned, we spoke to a Uva land shaft who's running the regulations there.

Speaker 1: So. Alright, we're attacking it from a couple of different sites. Yeah, they're really great thing that Ryan is doing with the other people who have registries, is formalizing and standardizing the methods so that if anyone sort of comes into the game here, forward, please use these because now we can compare notes, which is, you know, really important. Amazing. Fantastic. I can't wait to talk to him again. And he told me I can't talk to you until it's published. And I said, oh, come on please. And he said, I'm a scientist, I can't, can't just, I'm not just going to be rapping with you. Um, another friend that you've introduced me to, Marcel von Miller. Right. So what's he, what's he up to? Yeah, Marcel is still with University of Pennsylvania. He's left the Va, so he was associated with the va and is now with Zayden Aruba, which is a pharmaceutical company and one of their projects that they're working on is some cannabis based medicine.

Speaker 1: So, um, they did a different delivery mechanism, which we're familiar with and dispensary's a patch for epilepsy and it actually didn't show I'm more efficacious than placebo. So they're working on some, some other indications now including fragile x. So that's what he's up to, his work with us. We do through the University of Pennsylvania. So I don't work with pharmaceutical companies but I. But I do love Marcel. He's a brilliant researcher. I and has been published in excess of 150 times or something. His CV is, it's an, it's, it's, he's showing off really is what he's doing when he sends you his resume to include all of this, right? Yeah. So he, he helps us with um, all of our sports studies. So our former player study in our current players study. Did you say I'm fragile? What did you say? Fragile x. What does that. So it is a genetic mutation and results in very severe autism and intellectual disability and I think seizures as well.

Speaker 1: And so he's working on that. He's working on. Yes. Cannabis, pharmaceutical based cannabis product for that indication. How, why have I never heard of that? I don't know. That's my issue. Not Yours. So we'll move on and I guess we'll go to Harvard. So I haven't had the pleasure yet of meeting stacy, is that right? So what's going on there and see Gruber, she's working on a ptsd study and she's doing really great stuff because she's bringing people into the lab and doing clinical testing Mris, um, you know, so I almost view it as this range you've got mark were in Canada where it's a very thin sort of lots of people participating but not that deep of information. Why exactly which is really good to have. And then you've got realm of caring that's, you know, really got the fishing net pretty low. Um, and we've got over a thousand people in this registry now mark where has about 1800.

Speaker 1: I'm just this last year. You might be nipping at his heels pretty soon. We probably will be. So we usually gain a hundred or 200 every month. So yeah, pretty soon hopefully in his goal is 3000 and our goal is as many people as we can for as long as we can. Our goal is a mark where plus one, I'm not competitive or anything, but we will sync that registrar. And then you've got stacy that's, that's a smaller cohort and so probably I think it's probably around 30, but it is extremely extensive and so she exactly that all the way to functionally and clinically and, and so I think all of that science is really important to inform of course. Right. Fantastic. And so that's what you're working on a through the research or how about, you know, day to day what's going on with the, uh, the care center, you know, what are you hearing now that you maybe didn't use to here?

Speaker 1: You said you're, you're kind of informing a differently. What about information in to you? What, what's happening there? So in the, in the care center currently we have nine staff of nine back there and we take 8,500 inquiries at least every single month and they speak five languages. So these calls are coming in from all over the world and it really has changed the information that we used to give, used to be very type a personality mamas and Papas like me. Tell me where to pick it up. I don't need to know what it is that I know, like I've researched it. I can give you the mechanism of action of CBD, right? That, that, that was the personality of, of uh, five years ago. Give me the final mile. No, it's like, you know, my neighbor told me to call you back to the not quite sure actually why or you know, tell me about this cme stuff or interested.

Speaker 1: They have no, they have no real knowledge base and so they're starting really at point zero, right. Graham zero and figure this out. So it was like the, the medical refugees is what we call them, the folks that were in the know that found out themselves and then found you and realize that you could give them the final mile and now that we're in a kind of a different place as far as cannabis and society is concerned and availability and. Exactly. Yeah. It's, it's, it really has changed. And so we track everything in the, in the care center, um, where they're calling from, what they're calling about, um, you know, who referred them. I think it's also really interesting. So it used to be strictly parents, that's it, and in fact, coming up with our provider system, so for doctors, which we now have about 750 physicians that are connected with us 30 outside of the, of the United States.

Speaker 1: And um, it used to be all, all parents and it was an afterthought to go, we should, we should include the doctors, right? They get pretty angry when you get going without them and now it's our fourth highest referral source, our physician sending their patients to us. So they learned that we're a very reliable organization to get their, you know, their patients to for very solid information. Let's take that tangent. How do you find physicians, how to physicians find you? Because specifically for instance in New York, it, we need more physicians to be on top of prescribing so that the patient count can go up so that the actual entire program can survive. Right? Exactly. So how do we get in touch? How do you get in touch with the physicians? How can they get in touch with you yet? Usually right now, and that's almost a one way street.

Speaker 1: So they were finding us just a word of mouth or referral or they might hear us speak at a conference or something like that. So they find us that way. They learn that we have some resources on our website, they'll register. I'm also, they can make a public profile so that they can receive referrals because we want to parents wanna and, and adults, they want to work with doctors who don't look at them cross side who are going to be supportive of them using this option. And so doctors do have an option to make public profile so that they can receive referrals as well. And then all the way from talking to the care specialists to figure out. Because even folks who are making recommendations when they're new, they, they really don't have any place to start as far as dosing. They may not even understand a whole lot about the endocannabinoid system, you know, they, they've got a really steep learning curve.

Speaker 1: So we help them through that. We do a free online education for them. Um, we're going to be partnering, um, probably within the next couple of months where doctors can earn continuing education credits both here and in Europe and then we're going to be expanding into Latin America as well. So that's how, so we'll be working with the corns. I'm steven and meredith corn with the answer page. So they currently have a system where you can take a class and earn CEOS or Cmos, they call them. And so we'll partner with them to get the cms back to the physician. So then, hey, look at this. Right? So now we've got something. Physicians, pharmacists, nurses, any state in the United States and Europe right now it's approved. And so what, why I approached them originally was a so that we could work with them to translate all of this into Spanish with Mexico recently, recently legalizing and a lot of activity in Argentina and Uruguay and Brazil.

Speaker 1: We want to make sure that the doctors there are really understanding how this works. So you want it to have a conversation about Spanish and they're like, you know, we, we should talk about cms and it's also because we have, you know, we just get a lot of volume so it's, yeah, it would be great to add and that's one thing that our doctors request. So we do it for free through an online orientation, which is really great information, but you know, they've got a, they've got to earn continuing education credits anyway. So this is an online accredited program where you can take three credit hours all the way up to almost 30 credit hours in cannabis. Alright. So I have to take. So what heather saying is I've got to take, you know, x number of hours, why not take them here and learn about something new.

Speaker 1: Exactly. That's exactly right. And they're inundated with their patients asking them these questions and they don't have answers for these guys. So you know, who does heather does caring dust. Come on. How hard is this? It's not hard. It's not hard, but they just didn't connect with, with the, with the information. Fantastic. How are you as a human being? What's, what's going on with that? Because we're, whenever I see you, it's any city, it's a different place. Right, right. Um, uh, I mean, are you breathing? Are you sleeping? I, I breathe well, uh, I, I sleep less than I'm sure, um, but I'm actually, you know, I'm doing really well. I think that, um, personally I've definitely found a groove and I, I'm trying to be really vigilant about being more balanced and taking a little bit more time off and that sort of thing.

Speaker 1: There's so many people that need help and it's really easy for it to turn into what I call a half day, which is the 12 hour a day or even a little bit longer, you know what I mean? Like you detect, detect the kiddos in and you're like, I got another two hours a day. That's what I'm really trying to, um, to, to remain more balanced. I started meditating, which is, which is the equivalent of pulling my teeth out. It's very difficult for me. So I, I know meditating in the morning and um, you know, trying to make sure even at realm of caring like not just me, that we really take, take care of ourselves because it's a, it's a lot of emotional energy and everybody who calls it's this either end of life situation or no other option and it's just, it's, um, can be emotionally draining.

Speaker 1: So it's really important that we try and take care of ourselves. So I relate very much to everything that you just said. I am now understanding why we get along so well because I have not started to meditate, although it's like on my list of things to do of course. And I can see I haven't started for the reason that you say it feels like I'm going to be pulling my teeth out and you're saying yes, I will, but you will benefit me. It absolutely benefits here. It absolutely would benefited you painfully sap. Um, and that whole thing of I could work for two hours right now, but if I actually don't, I might fill the battery a little bit. Of course, of course. So. And, and read a good book and you know, go snuggle with my Kiddo or, and that what it does is that actually gives you more energy the next day I'm more, I'm more productive.

Speaker 1: I literally am learning this as we speak over the past six months, you know, I'm 41 and it's like, oh wait for recharge. It's better. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's better for everyone. You may stay in your relationship lager and you made. Why she does. She likes me. I mean she also doesn't like me because it's easy not to like me, you know? But uh, yeah, yeah, I know you got to pay attention to make sure that you're good and the others around you were good and all that. Exactly. Alright. So I have three final questions for returning guests is somewhat new that I'm doing these. I'll tell you what they are and then I'll ask you them in order. What would you change about yourself? What would you change about anything else and on the soundtrack of your life? One track, one song that's got to be on there.

Speaker 1: That's always the last question no matter what. So what would you change about yourself if anything? And that is, might be something that you're already working on. So like I'm trying to actually take a minute for myself. That might be the thing that you would change about yourself. I would say the thing that I would change about myself is reducing the need for perfectionism. Oh yeah. Um, because I think that's a, it drives me crazy when things aren't perfect perfectly right and he'd. Life is just not perfectly right, you know, so I, I can also drive my team crazy probably, you know, with, with um, and I think it's not to the point where we're going to lower standard because I think it's just going to have really high standards. Right. You know what, sometimes you just need to get things done, still register the a plus with a 97 percent and not worry about that last three percent, that type of thing. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that would be something that I would change about me. I like it. Anything else? What would you change, if you could? Anything else? That is such a broad question. We try to make it like a big question, right? The, the, uh, the second question for first time guests is what has most surprised you in life? Also a very big question. So what would you change? Anything else?

Speaker 1: I think I'm,

Speaker 1: I want to give you a non cannabis sort of answer but, but all I can think about is if, if there was anything else I could change, it would be, um, most likely how the medical community is sort of treating and interacting with this plant because it's probably my biggest source of frustration at this point. Yeah. So I think that would be probably what it is. So I wish that they wouldn't try and hold the plant to a standard that they are not holding even their pharmaceuticals to, you know, this whole, you know, it's not fda approved and it's like how many, how many times did you pull out your prescription pad and give my son a treatment that wasn't fda approved. So I mean, if I could change anything, it would be to scramble them a little bit so that they could not have all of the propaganda and stigma associated with it and you know, and just come to it as a blank slate because if you just came to this as well as a blank slate without all of that, you would think this was the most incredible thing ever.

Speaker 1: You mentioned a doctors and prescription pads and I don't know if I told you my mom was sick for about three years and then passed away about 12 years ago now. And yes, we got prescriptions certainly that, uh, had not been gone through approval. They were permitted to give them to us, right? More often than that though, we had to stop taking medications that had been prescribed because they got pulled off the market because of the problems that they were causing. Really FDA drugs that had been approved, that had to be called off. Figure out exactly what, wait a minute. Oh, so team know that pill that you're taking every day. We need you to stop doing it because it's killing people. Right? So you know, I'm with you as far as exactly and I, I understand the predicament that they're in, they've got this human's life in their hands.

Speaker 1: Sure. So I get that, but why not go with the plant that's never killed anybody ever would be a good idea or why? Why? Why are we so antagonistic against this plant? If we, if this is also happening in our office is I think both what you and I are saying. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it would make sense. Yeah. Okay, good to see. This is a good answer. That's why we asked that question. Okay. And it is also kind of not cannabis, although it does have to do with cannabis, it has to do with the naacp cannabis part of cannabis. Yeah, it was. I was thinking I could come up with something not cannabis related, but I think I'm at a point in my life where I don't have anything else to say besides something cannabis related. I hope in it and a couple of years that changes, but right now that's pretty much my answer for everything.

Speaker 1: Well, but your [inaudible] you know who specificity right? Specificity the guy that had the big boulder that he had to push. Of course, of course. Yes. Your office. Right. So yes. It feels like that. Yeah. So that's fine that everything is about that. Is that. That makes sense. It makes sense that you'd be thinking about pushing the boulder up hill, right? Yeah, it does make sense. Thank you. On the soundtrack of your life. One track, one song that's got to be on there. So last time I said I'm Ben Harper is always right. Who I would mention, but I would have to say and honor of Tom Petty. Oh yes. Sadly. Rip. Right? So that'll give people timeframe of when, when we recorded this dude a can't back down. Woolpack down. I won't back down there. So Tom Petty won't back down. Yeah, I think that would be the song for the day.

Speaker 1: I like it. And uh, I will double down on your Tom Petty with waiting. The waiting is the hardest part. It is. Absolutely. It is. You and me. We'll just wait for the rest of them. Did get here and then when they get here, you know I want to have to push the boulder up. There you go. Right? There you go. Perfect. Heather Jackson, realm of caring. Give, give them the website. A good website is www dot the rock, which is t h e r o c.us. Let me give you a phone number. Two, seven, one nine, three, four slash seven 5,407, one, nine, three slash four slash seven slash 5,400 people should reach out. There you go. Go to the website, call them on the phone. We're here for you. Get some answers. Excellent. Thanks Seth. Heather, thank you. Of course as always, and hey, keep fighting. Police. I won't stop.

Speaker 2: And there you have heather Jackson. Heather is a one of these great people that they talk about in the cannabis industry. I really, I very much enjoy all the time. Anytime that I get to spend with heather. Anyway, thanks to her. Thanks to you. Stay tuned.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.