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Ep.303: Tim Cullen, Colorada Harvest Co.

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.303: Tim Cullen, Colorada Harvest Co.

Ep.303: Tim Cullen, Colorada Harvest Co.

As we make our way into what will be the fourth year of adult-use cannabis in Colorado, Colorado Harvest Company CEO Tim Cullen returns to share how things have changed and how things have remained the same. For Tim, 2014 was his fourth year in operation, so while it was a transformative moment for the industry and the world, in some ways Jan. 1 was another day at the office for Tim. That said, operations were set for 2 or 3 customers at the time and 1500 people showed up. Moving into today Tim says that the water has found it’s level and the cannabis business has evened out.

Transcript:

Speaker 2: Tim Colon returns as we make our way into what will be the fourth year of adult use cannabis in Colorado, Colorado Harvest Company, CEO Tim Collin, returns to share how things have changed and how things have remained. The same for Tim. Twenty 14 was his fourth year in operation, so while it was a transformative moment for the industry and the world in some ways, January first was another day at the office for him that said operations were set up for a few customers at the time and 1500 people showed up. Moving into today, Tim says that the water has found its level and the cannabis business has evened out what we're going to cannabis economy. I'm your host, Seth Adler. Check us out on social, but the handle can economy. That's two ends in the word economy. Tim Colon.

Speaker 1: Oh, this one depends who's working for me, but yeah, I mean you're on the taller side, right? I am. I'm 64, right Sam, so it's gonna. Be Tough to find an employee that's going to be taller, right? You'd have to go out of your way to find them. I, I am on one edge of a bell curve. So Tim Collin, thanks for sitting down again. We got your history last time we spoke and you and I will at least I thought it was a good idea to kind of check back in and say, hey, it's a, you know, we're making our way into 2018 now and that's a different timeframe than 2014. These are different moments and I wanted to kind of hear from you, tap into your id as much as possible on the life of an operator and the mindset of an operator as we make our way into what will be the fourth year of legal adult use cannabis. Can you believe that

Speaker 4: having lived through it, I, I actually can believe that and I actually thought it was a good idea that we sit down again to go to your podcast. Thanks for chatting with you. I think you covered all sorts of relevant topics, so when you asked me to be back, it was an absolutely. Where can I meet you? So thanks for having me back.

Speaker 1: Fantastic. So let's just, uh, you were sitting down in October of 2017 podcast land knows no time but um, give us a sense of 2014, what a week was like, you know, in February versus October 2017.

Speaker 4: I would go as far as night and day. So, so interesting that for years have gone by since recreational sales. October third is also the eight year anniversary of Colorado Harvest Company. We just had our eight year anniversary anniversary halfway into that creational sales happened in Colorado and that was amazing. So Colorado Harvest Company was fortunate enough to have to have the first 12 licenses that the city of Denver issued for recreational sales and I'm, I would never want to not live through that again, but I'm not sure if my, my self at 45 could deal with that. Again, seth, it's almost hard to describe like you have to imagine for four years we're a medical marijuana center. We're really designed to have two and three people trickle in throughout the day. That's, that's kind of the volume and the. We had a three point of sale systems and we can handle a rush at with that and this is before 2014, before 2014 and then recreational sales hit, so January first 2014, we had 1500 people show up at 8:00 in the morning before the doors were open and we opened the doors and when there is no way, well how do we even dent align like that.

Speaker 2: Tim Colon returns as we make our way into what will be the fourth year of adult use cannabis in Colorado, Colorado Harvest Company, CEO Tim Collin, returns to share how things have changed and how things have remained. The same for Tim. Twenty 14 was his fourth year in operation, so while it was a transformative moment for the industry and the world in some ways, January first was another day at the office for him that said operations were set up for a few customers at the time and 1500 people showed up. Moving into today, Tim says that the water has found its level and the cannabis business has evened out what we're going to cannabis economy. I'm your host, Seth Adler. Check us out on social, but the handle can economy. That's two ends in the word economy. Tim Colon.

Speaker 1: Oh, this one depends who's working for me, but yeah, I mean you're on the taller side, right? I am. I'm 64, right Sam, so it's gonna. Be Tough to find an employee that's going to be taller, right? You'd have to go out of your way to find them. I, I am on one edge of a bell curve. So Tim Collin, thanks for sitting down again. We got your history last time we spoke and you and I will at least I thought it was a good idea to kind of check back in and say, hey, it's a, you know, we're making our way into 2018 now and that's a different timeframe than 2014. These are different moments and I wanted to kind of hear from you, tap into your id as much as possible on the life of an operator and the mindset of an operator as we make our way into what will be the fourth year of legal adult use cannabis. Can you believe that

Speaker 4: having lived through it, I, I actually can believe that and I actually thought it was a good idea that we sit down again to go to your podcast. Thanks for chatting with you. I think you covered all sorts of relevant topics, so when you asked me to be back, it was an absolutely. Where can I meet you? So thanks for having me back.

Speaker 1: Fantastic. So let's just, uh, you were sitting down in October of 2017 podcast land knows no time but um, give us a sense of 2014, what a week was like, you know, in February versus October 2017.

Speaker 4: I would go as far as night and day. So, so interesting that for years have gone by since recreational sales. October third is also the eight year anniversary of Colorado Harvest Company. We just had our eight year anniversary anniversary halfway into that creational sales happened in Colorado and that was amazing. So Colorado Harvest Company was fortunate enough to have to have the first 12 licenses that the city of Denver issued for recreational sales and I'm, I would never want to not live through that again, but I'm not sure if my, my self at 45 could deal with that. Again, seth, it's almost hard to describe like you have to imagine for four years we're a medical marijuana center. We're really designed to have two and three people trickle in throughout the day. That's, that's kind of the volume and the. We had a three point of sale systems and we can handle a rush at with that and this is before 2014, before 2014 and then recreational sales hit, so January first 2014, we had 1500 people show up at 8:00 in the morning before the doors were open and we opened the doors and when there is no way, well how do we even dent align like that.

Speaker 4: So we had to. It wasn't selling cannabis. That was the difficult part was dealing with the volume of people. How do you get people through a line fast enough? So a lot of stores were. The word on the street was, oh my, Oh my, we're going to run out of product. We weren't worried about running out of product. We were worried about about people waiting three hours outside and you have to imagine this is Colorado in January also. It's cold out. It was snowing. It was. I mean we. I had to go by theater ropes to cue the lines. We had to go buy space heaters, like big tall outside heaters that people weren't so cold. We started updating the q and handing out numbers so that people could look at their cue numbers on, on social media instead of standing out in the cold.

Speaker 4: People were waiting three hours to get into the store. So that was the reality in January of 2014. I just want to stay there for one more second because I think that, I don't remember where you told me this anecdote. I, it might've been on the medicine men a video thing. Um, the two different people who exclaimed how long they had been waiting. Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think people were fairly accepting of this quarter mile line when they stepped into it that on January first or January, maybe not so much. I mean, literally the line persisted out the door through most of March also. It just became how it was for several months. And, um, we immediately realized our setup was not gonna be adequate for that volume of people. And a couple of months later we were able to take over the whole building.

Speaker 4: We were able to double the footprint. We were able to quadruple the number of point of sales right at the same time that Denver issued a whole bunch of licenses and spread the crowd out. And we went. Oh no thanks. It looks a little empty in here with no line out the front door. But to step forward to today. Yeah, you're right. The water has, has found its level. It's evened out. There are um, what started out as two of 12 recreational licenses in the city of Denver are now to have 200 licenses. There's lots of opportunities for people to shop for cannabis recreationally in town and there is no longer align coming out of Colorado Harvest Company. So just to make sure that we hit on that anecdote of the, of the two different, uh, or the, the multiple different perspectives but to specific perspectives that you remember from the line on January first 2014.

Speaker 4: So I'm glad you reminded me of that because I added, it slipped my mind. But that was funny. So people really were waiting hours in the cold to get into the store. And when one guy pipes up that he's been waiting three hours to get in the door and the guy behind him goes three hours, I'd been waiting 67 years to walk into this store and that put everything in perspective for everyone had been waiting all morning to get in to get it. And so, uh, it gave me some perspective also needed at that time. And so, and again, this is to say you've been, you know, these were historic times, you've been through those historic times and now flash forward to what you just described, which is kind of hundreds of stores and you're one of those folks. And so whereas it was crowd management to begin with, are we going to have enough product?

Speaker 4: Right? What should we put on the shelves now that there's adult use? How do you look at the licenses now? How do you look at the establishment is now. Sure. Well, I'm, I mean, it really has changed the whole market. Having, having recreational become a part of our lives for what I've seen as a trend over the years is um, medical sales have slipped year over year over year and I think a lot of that has to do with if the product is available to people, they would rather not jump through all the hoops to get the medical card. They'll pay higher taxes on, on a purchase to not deal with that. And just shop on the recreational side. I've also found it really fascinating that a huge percentage, I would say upwards of 50 percent of people that are shopping on the recreational side are still asking the same questions that we saw people asking on the medical side.

Speaker 4: They're still looking for a way to sleep better, a way to reduce anxiety or a way to relax in the evening that doesn't involve alcohol or they're, they're looking for similar similar remedies to their problems that the medical folks we're looking for too. And I think what a lot of people thought was recreational is exactly that. It will be recreational. It'll be fun and people swing by before the concert. I don't think people are thinking that the 95 year old grandma who doesn't want to be on the medical marijuana registry still wants access to the arthritis cream. That was helping her out.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Let's break that down for a second because this is an interesting kind of a view into the mind of the customer. What you're saying is for wellness sake, for medical purposes folks are coming to the adult use side and they're coming from the medical side because of the registry, because of the hoops that they have to run through or jump through to get that card. I did. I hear that. Absolutely. No question about it. Taxes are lower on the medical side are. Okay, so I'd rather pay more and have. Do you think it's a libertarian, you know that Colorado kind of purple mindset of if I don't have to tell anybody about where I am and what I'm doing, I'd rather it that way.

Speaker 4: You know, it might be a little bit of that. I think a lot of that fell into the rec market in terms of people who wanted access to cannabis, but we're not interested in being a part of the state's licensed programs. Could shop on the recreational side and do it anonymously in the same way you can walk into a liquor store and buy whatever you want and no one knows who you are. You can shop for recreational cannabis, but I also think that it's kind of a convenience thing as well. So you're right, the taxes are higher about three times higher, but I'm so 22, 23 percent on the recreational side, more like seven point two percent on the medical side, but at the end of the day for most customers is that, you know, five to $7 to not have to be a part of this whole program.

Speaker 4: Go see a doctor, send in paperwork, wait for the reply. It was. It was just in the last 12 months that the state of Colorado started to operate the medical marijuana program using this cool new thing. Maybe you've heard about called the Internet where you can send all your stuff in like that and you can get a reply in a in a, you know, 24 to 72 hour period versus a a week, six week waiting period for your card. So I think the state has also has also made it easier and less expensive to get the medical cards, but that still hasn't addressed the convenience side of it for the consumer. That is also okay. Just paying a little more in taxes to not take a day off work to get a medical card. Sure. But if I, if it only takes me 72 hours and I now don't have to take a day off of work because I can do it all online.

Speaker 4: Right. Will you or do you expect that kind of deep in medical sales to stop to satiate, to Kinda maybe bought them out? I think I do expect that it will bottom out, but I'm not sure where the bottom is. I think the registry in Colorado right now is about as low as it's ever been in compared to four years ago. Sure. About as high as it's ever been, it was at one point in close to 180,000 people. It's down closer to 80,000 people right now. So you have the same number of stores competing for a much smaller group of, of people that could potentially shop in them. Um, and then also plant count is also tied to, to the medical patients. So for every person that signs Colorado Harvest Company up as a caregiver, we can grow six plants for those people and it starts to be this sort of downward spiral of if you don't have enough selection on yourselves than people don't want to sign up to make you their caregiver and then you can't grow plants for them.

Speaker 4: And it's hard to. It's hard to regain that robust medical program if it starts to slide and I see it sliding all over, but our oral borrows what, what's the, the snake that eats itself? It is sorta like that. It's like this catch 22 is a, as it goes through, but at the uh, at, at the same time, um, it's in the constitution in Colorado. It's amendment 20 and recreational is amendment 64, and so regardless of how successful the program is or the number of people associated with it or what, what the state makes on the taxes are licensing fees, it is here in Colorado to stay. It's virtually impossible to repeal an amendment to the constitution here and last year it got harder to repeal and amendment to the constitution. It is going to be there forever. Why did it last year? It get harder. The state made it more difficult to, uh, to get petition signatures in a, in a way that Colorado was becoming a, a testing ground for a lot of special interest groups because it was relatively easy to change the constitution in Colorado.

Speaker 4: They made the signature gathering much more difficult. It has to be across the state instead of one pot. You couldn't come into Denver and get a bunch of signatures and then change the whole Colorado constitution. You have to get those signatures from all over the state. And so it's much more expensive to run a much more representative of it is probably more fair. But I also wonder if marijuana will be legal in Colorado if that rule was in effect. We don't have to worry about that too because they made it in and now the door is closed and I don't know if you'll see amendments to Colorado's constitution for a long time. Yeah. So then

Speaker 5: going back to this registry thing, if I continue to want to be a medical patient, I would have to go into the registry if I want to be an adult use patient. I don't correct. How helpful is the registry to you as a retailer?

Speaker 4: So let's back up to the very beginning because I think you know where I'm going with this. At the very beginning, Colorado harvest company's bread and butter and whole focus was medical. And so we've always felt this. Our roots are in the medical side of it and even though we see the sales decrease and the margins are next to nothing and it's a lot of work and effort to maintain these licenses, the returns are lower and lower. And lower to the point now where medical is making up a just above 10 percent of our overall revenue percent. Is that it right? Versus um, what was 100 percent at one point in time? And so I'm 10, I didn't know what that low. We've held onto that idea and still continue to hang on to it because that is how we got our start. We will always have a medical program at Colorado Harvest Company even if it starts to cost us money to have it. It's, it is where we started.

Speaker 5: Am I hearing though that at least if it's just two guys talking that you may think or it may be that if there was no registry on the medical side, we would see many more medical patients.

Speaker 4: I think you would. I think you would if it were, um, if it were regulated differently, I think you would.

Speaker 5: What are your thoughts on the registry for alcohol sales?

Speaker 4: I think cannabis and alcohol should be treated the same. There is no registry for alcohol, no registry. And strangely enough alcohol is absolutely a schedule one drug. So it was so as tobacco high tendency towards abuse and addiction and no medical benefits,

Speaker 4: alcohol should be sold in child resistant containers. You should not be able to drag your child into a store that sells alcohol. Alcohol should not be on television. I'm the same rules that are being applied to marijuana should also be applied to alcohol or that's how we started. But I know, I know that's how it was sold to the voters in Colorado too, because as regulated like alcohol and it almost couldn't be further from the truth about. The only thing that's similar is that you have to be 21 to purchase it and it's a regulated substances. Um, outside of that, you can walk into any liquor store in Denver today and show up with a u haul truck and fill it up and no one will as much as write your name down. You can buy as much as you want. You can do whatever you want with it.

Speaker 4: You can stock pilot. Yeah, you're not being hyper. That's not hyperbole. You can literally do that. Yeah, no problem at all. Whereas whereas marijuana, you're still regulated to how much you can purchase, how much you can possess different types, have different amounts. Eight grams. I'm edibles. Eight thousand milligrams of cannabis, one ounce, so 28 grams. And so depending on what you actually have, depends on how much of each one of those you could actually have and be legal with your possession would be like saying, I'm sorry, you can only have a six pack if you're also going to buy this bottle of wine and then you also wanted a schnapps shooter. Well that's as much as you can buy today, seth. Yeah. Before I check out here, I just need to look in the basket and see what's in there and make sure that you're allowed to buy these.

Speaker 4: Exactly, exactly. So I, I feel like the intent is, is there and the state of Colorado is followed through with that. Clearly, if you are an adult who's 21 who wants access to cannabis, there is no better place than Denver, Colorado to come shop for it. It's available and you can buy it. In terms of being regulated like alcohol, absolute. Absolutely not the case. It is, it's just not regulated like alcohol. I want to come back to that, but take a side step to what might be a stupid question. Is there a registry as far as over the counter pharmaceutical sales? You know, I, I think in some cases there are, you know, in the last six months my wife got sick and I went and bought her some sudafed and I had to show a driver's license. I did, I had to, I had to sign some paperwork.

Speaker 4: Did. Oh yes, absolutely. Interesting. I think they're looking for, I think they call it smurfing, like am I, am I shopping for Sudafed at 20 different places today or did I just shop for it? So there is that and that's called smurfing you say? Yeah, well I think that was the term that the pharmacists, I was like why do I have to sign all this stuff? This is over the counter medication. Right? And he's like, yeah, but sort of like we're trying to make sure this isn't everywhere. How does the a verb work? Who gets smurfs? Oh, I am not exactly, I'm not exactly sure. I talked to marijuana enforcement division and they use a different term called looping where a customer might shop at one store and buy announce and go to another store and go buy another ounce and another store that's. Now you're back to cannabis.

Speaker 4: I'm focused on on pharmaceutical pharmaceutical. So there is a system in place for pharmaceuticals. Okay, fine. Fair enough. Because it's medicine and we want to kind of regulate that. So as far as a registry is concerned, there isn't one for alcohol, but there is one for pharmaceuticals so we're somewhere in between. Right, right. Yeah. The only issue is that with the pharmaceuticals I buy, I know from the television ads that I see there are side effects. While there are side effects to cannabis also, well I don't know why people are so opposed to it, but euphoria happens to be one of them, that if every drug has a side effect of euphoria, then people, maybe they wouldn't have to make them taste so funny to read it, but if there are so many ifs to that equation, I think the world would be a slightly different place.

Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean, uh, increased appetite. Uh, certainly one side effect. Drowsiness could be another one. In some cases, anxiety. People sometimes suffer from, from marijuana. So though not on the list on the list yet, strangely enough, not still not one case has to be the most highly regulated, safest product ever introduced to mankind. So my analogy to the pharmaceutical industry is a false equivalence. Oh, absolutely. It is, absolutely. It is. Marijuana is not a schedule one. Drug. Marijuana should not even be on the schedule. It is, it is. It should be. It should be regulated like watermelons are.

Speaker 5: Yeah. Not there. Not. No, I, I, I've now, you know, we are in October, we mentioned in the last couple of watermelons. I bought were, were not so great, so maybe some better regulations on the end of the season.

Speaker 4: Oh, right, right, right. I mean, you do want the Department of Agriculture involved in on, right. You don't want, you don't want ddt being sprayed on your watermelon. Same time. I mean, public safety is important, but I've never seen government agencies take the opportunity to exploit a product that is a safe as marijuana in such a way that the regulations behind marijuana are just amazing. But in the same light. I also. So October first was a, was a rule change date for us in Colorado were edible manufacturers and concentrate manufacturers had to increase the font size of the potency on the labels. Had to either use a circle or a square to outline that potency.

Speaker 4: And that was the big rule change that, that came through this year was, was doing that. But I. and, which is better than former rule change was. It is. It was much easier to live with it because a, it didn't cause a huge, uh, a huge wave through the market they gave. They gave people enough heads up. They they sort of phased it in, it was expected and fine and in some ways I, I enjoy these little tweaks and rule changes because what they're doing is taking marijuana products that are, that are being cultivated, grown and produced in Colorado and packaging them in a way that pretty soon they're going to look just like products that would be on a walmart shelf and which are going to gain public acceptance and they're going to look like things consumers are comfortable purchasing and, and that is a step in the right direction. So Colorado is sort of this incubation tank for products that are going to be able to make an appearance as a mass mass adult use product.

Speaker 5: Absolutely. Which is wonderful and what we depend on you for. So thanks. Do you think that there's an appetite for going back in and looking now at the top of the regulations and looking at the registry and saying, hey, maybe don't need this?

Speaker 6: Oh, I think there's definitely some room to think about that, but I. The issue, seth is, is the issue with, with all things that are regulated, there are government agencies who now have their funding tied to this cdph. He is who regulates the whole medical marijuana market. They are the ones that collect the registry fees. They're the ones that have that portion of their budget designed off of that and even though they might scream and holler all day long that they don't, they don't want that. They do want the revenue that it comes from it. Oh, I'm just saying anonymizing it. Oh, it's absolutely should. People should be able to choose whether they, whether they want to shop on the medical side or the operational side. Um, which also brings up another point. If you continue to walk down that path that, that, can marijuana be both medical and recreational.

Speaker 6: And I don't think that it can. I was going to say in my life, it certainly is. So please do tell. Well in my life, it certainly is. Also I've suffered from Crohn's disease for the last eight years and, and marijuana plays a big role in how I, how I treat that Crohn's disease. And most nights of the week I'm taking marijuana 10 milligrams before I go to sleep in an edible form in a medical way, but there are also Friday nights that I come home from work and there's nothing magical about it. I'm recreationally enjoying some marijuana and so I moved through both of those really easily. But if you were to look at any other adult use products or prescription drugs, products like that, no one gets to walk that line. No alcohol company would be allowed to come out and say, Hey, we've developed this medical line of alcohol that you can jump through these hoops with your doctor.

Speaker 6: And because it's not true because I don't have an alcohol cannabinoid system. That's true. We have an endocannabinoid system which is attached to cannabis, so there is no other thing like this. I agree. I agree. I just think it's like, I hope it can be treated differently, but I feel like as as regulations moved through as groups like gw pharmaceutical and develops products like spiriva and things that are. That do have a really medical slant to them that some of these pharmaceutical companies are going to take over some of the medical side of it, which is going to make the Colorado dispensary model look a lot like a liquor store model. If you want a prescription, you go to your doctor and they'll prescribe you a gw pharmaceutical product if you want to smoke a joint on Friday night swinging by the dispensary,

Speaker 6: you're saying that that's where you see it going. You're also saying you don't agree with that. I don't agree with that. I, I also, um, but I'm just watching these pharmaceutical companies, they're there at all these conferences. They're present. They're watching the market there. They're working outside of the United States and countries that allow for them to do clinical trials with marijuana. Um, they are, they are getting ready and teed up to move into that medical market. I just don't know how far they'll be able to penetrate that into that market. And then, and there are certainly some products that I think most people would recognize us on the medical side, but not necessarily that medical have a product. Like I think you're going to have a hard time finding a doctor that recommends you smoke anything. It's just not the best way to ingest it.

Speaker 5: So let me make sure that I'm understanding this. It seems like if we keep this as schedule one as long as possible, then Pharma can come in and take over medical and then you know, you hippies can have the recreational market. Go ahead. I,

Speaker 6: I do not think marijuana can stay as a schedule one drug. I mean in a selfish sense, but it's also held off. A lot of those pharmaceutical companies are not willing to play

Speaker 5: to this day

Speaker 6: now in a sandbox because of that federal scheduling. And so the competition is as sort of local. It's relatively organic, if you will, uh, from, from the companies here versus versus. I don't have to look at a huge tobacco company and, and the marketing power they have as my competition. I just have to look down the road at another company that has a couple of stores in the same problems I do and we compete on a, on a pretty level playing field. So, um, I am not sure where it's all headed, but it

Speaker 5: sits. I mean, it is, it's, is what it's always been. If we can reschedule this, we don't have to worry about that. If it gets rescheduled, that's the land that we live in.

Speaker 6: Oh absolutely. I mean a schedule two would mean it's only available through pharmacies and I don't think there is a pharmacy on the planet that wants to look like a dispensary

Speaker 5: Uruguay to spend a year dispensary's Uruguay's pharmacies just told us that, right?

Speaker 6: They don't, they don't want that and neither do the pharmacies here. But people do want access to cannabis. I mean, legal or not, there is a market for it and always has been. And if it became illegal tomorrow, there would still be a market for it. Um, so this is, this is a, a reinvention of the wheel. In the same way that alcohol became legal as prohibition swept across the country. You're seeing the same thing happened with cannabis and that's why for the same reasons that Utah has what I would consider kind of crazy alcohol rules around their sales. Um, Minnesota has some different ones. It just a few years ago, it became legal to sell alcohol on Sundays in Colorado. Those are, those are all as a result of prohibition and states coming up with their own rules. That's exactly what you're seeing with cannabis right now to all these states are reinventing the wheel all coming up with their own rules.

Speaker 6: And at the end of the day, the federal government is going to bless cannabis. It is going to be come federally illegal. There are 29 states that it's legal in right now. There are only for medical use that medical use only. They're only going to be more when California comes on in January. It is gonna Rock, the whole market for recreational. Um, and when that happens, what does happen to the medical side of it? I think it'll be really, it's always been interesting to watch how this unfolds, but you're gonna have the same issues with alcohol that you know, maybe in Utah it's always, always medical and recreational. Cannabis is not available. Whereas in Colorado recreational cannabis is available but only until 10:00 PM and in Las Vegas maybe you can buy it until midnight and I mean the rules are just going to be different all over the country as a result of the federal government staying out of this until it's down to 50 states that are voting for it.

Speaker 1: Or we see this. All. The reason I was picking around at the registry is because I do think it's high time to deregulate now. We have to. I think that all of the hearts and minds and and great folks that worked on amendment 64 and the folks that continue to work on legalization state by state. It seems like the focus should be on deregulation as opposed to making sure that we also get ga.

Speaker 6: Right. Oh I absolutely agRee. I'm the pendulum swings and and I think the black market would represent no involvement from the government where we are in 2014 or 2017. Feels like the pendulum is swung abOut as far as it can to the other way. LIke we're regulating the tiniest aspects of this business circle or square circle square. Make sure that font is 10 point in bold. Like I mean, yeah, it's important that we're dotting i's and crossing t's point. It should be on there but, but, but to what end are consumers safer as a result of that?

Speaker 5: But the point is the regulations have gotten to the point where we are dying dotting where we are, dotting i's and crossing t's. RIght, right, right. I feel like we are good at this point. If there were no more rule changes, the number of people that have died from marijuana since it's been legal is still zero. Right? Regardless of the font size on an edible product. So. Alright. So deregulations, you know, you heard it here first folks. No, you didn't hear it here first. I don't mean. I don't mean full deregulation mean in my heart. That's really. I think you should be able to have marijuana plants growing in your backyard. Be keep them out of your kids' hands and away from your. I'll be fine. I said deregulation, dea, schedule fee schedule. That's what I mean. Oh, I'd be fine with regulation is not. I don't know if we're ever gonna the pendulum will swing that far. You know, I'm not. I'm not talking about deregulation.

Speaker 1: Dea scheduling. I think it's. It is. That

Speaker 5: is our moment in time. Right? I think that that's what I'm going to start talking to people about. In other words, that's always been the faraway goal. If you listened to the epIsodes of this very podcast or anything else, it's always been, oh yeah, well, you know, if we could schedule, that'd be great. That's always been, you know, let's get through California for. Okay, now we're through California, you know, now we're up to circle, square dotting i's, crossing t's,

Speaker 6: dea schedule. So I liked the scheduling, but I think there's one step in between there that is changing. Changing the federal tax code to a d, we have these legal licensed businesses. Colorado harvest company employs 80 people, which means we're over the threshold for the affordable care act at 50 employees. We're paying insurance for these people. They have maternity and paternity leave, paid time off. They have. They have all the benefits of working at a job that anyone else would expect and and we get to operate this business in Colorado until we file our federal taxes at the end of the year and then we're penalized like were drug dealers and because you cannot take it, take us through it one more time. Right? Well you, you can't deduct your advertising. What you pay in and leases or mortgages on your building. Your payroll is not deductible. It basically, it basically means you can run this business, all the blood, sweat and tears you want. Have a great month. Just send them more money, have a bad months and I'm less money, but the bottom line is there is no money to be made running a marijuana store today in the United States

Speaker 5: because you're treated like a cartel as though you were doing business in the 1980 [inaudible].

Speaker 6: Yes, exactly. Exactly. Like we're trafficking cocaine around the country were illegal licensed businesses in the state. I don't know if the federal government will ever fully repeal to ate. I think it will always apply to some poor home grower that gets dinged with it and they'll seize their house and hit him with a tax bill they can never pay and just make it not worth their while, but for businesses that are legal and licensed and paying taxes to a should absolutely not applied to these businesses and that would be assigned from the federal government that we were moving forward toward dea scheduling. I would love to see dea scheduling too, but to 80, he has to go away and I see that happening before, before it comes off the schedule,

Speaker 5: certainly because then you can operate your business. we talked about the fact that you're, you are a regular retailer now with that with the exception of two 80 and so you could grow your business differently. Oh, absolutely. You know, based on the fact that you would be treated just like tj maxx or pick a retail liquor store across the street. Here we go. How about that one? How about regulated like alcohol and it will be just fine with me. So we ended where we started. I have three final questions for returning guests. Okay, great. These are somewhat new, but I'll take it

Speaker 6: through them.

Speaker 5: What would you change about yourselF, if anything? What would you change about anything else? If anything, and these we might have been over, both of those are already in this conversation and then on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on there. That's always the last question. So first things first, what, uh, what would you change about yourself, if anything? And it might be something you're already working on.

Speaker 6: Oh, um, I, I am on a big mission of self discovery and have been for a long, long time. I don't, I don't think can be a person experiencing life on the planet earth and if you're not questioning what that's about, you're missing the whole damn point of what you're doing here. So what I've been trying to reflect on for at least the last six months is being really grateful. Being grateful to be here and get to talk to you being grateful about my, my role in Colorado harvest company, being grateful that I was at the right place and the right time to be able to run and operate a cannabis company. Being grateful for the family that I have in my friends and relationships and really trying to always keep that in the front of my mind. That is, that is the thing I'm working on for myself is this idea of gratefulness. And I got to tell you that that changes your whole day. If you can wake up and be grateful about everything instead of waking up and being like, oh, I have to grind through this all day long. Like if you can just be grateful for what you have though the sun is always shining.

Speaker 5: So I think that, uh, that might be the key to life, if not one of the keys to, I hope so. What, how do you actually employ it? So in other words, I take your point on I'm trying to do this and whereas I woke up yesterday and said, oh my god, this is so difficult, which it is a this morning I woke up and I said, I'm grateful for that, that and that. How does that actually, uh, how do you actually digest that? Oh,

Speaker 6: you're, you're, you're near where it needs to be. I the onLy way that I think you can really truly do it, and I'm sort of annoyed that I found this out 45 years into life. I don't want to get too hippy dippy trippy on your show, but you have to meditate. It's the only way to tap into that subconscious field. At the end of the day, seth, we're all made of star dust. This is all part of the universe and your life is part of this much bigger thing going on. It's not the day to day of making a podcast. It's not driving to the store and running errands or nine to five work, it's really about being a much larger thing that you're just have this little bit of time in this little roll in and understanding that you create your own reality with the attitude that you bring to the table and so I had to try to find time in my day to make that happen and the only time I could find was wake up earlier, so I wake up an hour earlier every single day and I take that time to meditate and get in touch with what the universe really and it puts a whole different spin on my day.

Speaker 6: It's, it changes how I interact with people. It changes how I look at the challenges that we face. It changes how I, how I love my family and how I spend my time.

Speaker 5: A full hour, a full hour. Wow. You have to work up to that though, if I understand correctly. Did you

Speaker 6: do there? I mean there's a lot of. There are podcasts, there are apps, there are meditation centers, there's all sorts of things. That one book that's been really influential for me is this joe dispenza called breaking the habit of being yourself that really breaks this down. But it addressed it for me personally in a way that really resonated with me because my background is all in science. I'm very analytical, so it's actually hard for me to talk about spiritual things like this because it's not really up my, at my core and I've had to come to this acceptance that I'm really not exactly who I think I am. I really am part of this much larger thing. Um, and he's able to break that down into by talking about quantum physics, which really in a super geeky way totally turns me on it. Quantum physics is fascinating and as soon as you start to know a little bit more about it, you start to realize the world is not exactly like you think it is.

Speaker 6: Things that are solid or not really solid, things that appear in your life or maybe just kind of part of a dream which is, um, check the book out. Breaking the habit of being yourself. It's on audible and it's an easy way to listen to it in your car. I will. I'm on it, tim. So let's quickly get through the other ones. What would you change about anything else? Could be anything. Anything else? Well, I wish the world were not such a scary place right now where the last time you and I talked, we were in las vegas, las vegas and the tragedy that just happened there over this weekend. UM, man, I, I think if everyone meditated the whole world might be a little kinder to each other, a little more accepting and understanding. um, my wife is as going on a girl's trip this weekend now to New York and we had a long talk last night.

Speaker 6: She wanted to cancel her trip. She was so afraid to go and I was like, oh my god baby. Like you can't, you can't let them win. Like you have to go. Like, I mean, you have no control over the craziness in this world. That could happen. It could happen here at this hotel we're sitting in right now. it could happen anywhere. It doesn't, it's not about New York, it's not about where you are, it's about your attitude coming into life and the experiences you're so excited to go meet your girlfriends. UntiL some can I say asshole, asshole. That's the appropriate term in. I mean, even worse than that. Um, and to let that influence your trip is just broke my heart. LIke I want my son to grow up in a world that is kinder than, than the one we're sitting in right now. I like it.

Speaker 6: I do too. Um, and she gone on the trip, right? She's going on the trip. Hell or high water, man, I got, I, I gave her a pep talk that would make you proud, I guess further to that point on the soundtrack of your life. One track, one song that might be on there. I love this question, seth and I, I should have thought of it beforehand. Um, because for the last two questions, that's all I've thought about. Really. What song am I picking for this thing I'm going to, I'm going to go this time with, uh, with, with the grateful dead. What a long strange trip it's been because marijuana years, even though we just celebrated our eight year anniversary, they're more like dog years. I'm, I'm feeling like the eight years could feels a lot more like 50 years of running a marijuana company. Um, and it really has been an amazing rollercoaster.

Speaker 6: I wouldn't trade the experience for anything but I'm also not sure I would have jumped on the ride again if I knew how crazy it was. it's just been some of the highest highs I've ever had in my life and some of the lowest lows and, and in between those things. Trying to pick out the special things that keep you going and motivated on the day to day and trying to stay focused on the business and the people that really make the magic happen there and just trying to keep it all in perspective. But also trying to find that balance between being a business owner and being a husband and a family member. And also having some personal time to go for a run and go, go see the fall colors. Happen out there and spend time with a little boy after school and also make sure the p and l is balancing and that products are being ordered and that the production schedule is on time and I think it takes a special person to delineate their life like that and, and be successful with it because any one of those things can consume all of you so

Speaker 2: long. Strange trip. Absolutely and maybe even play that yourself. Found the guitar. I still play guitar. I love it though. 10 men always catching up on my pleasure. Thank you. I'll be back in time and there you have tim cullen. Very much appreciate the old anecdotes and sharing. You know what's at the top and front of his mind now. Marijuana should not even be on the schedule. It should be regulated like watermelons. thanks to tim, thanks to you. Stay tuned.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.