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Ep.309: Tae Darnell, Sensi

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.309: Tae Darnell, Sensi

Ep.309: Tae Darnell, Sensi

Tae Darnell joins us and takes us through his background. Roughly 75% of the his brothers and sisters were adopted by his father- a musician that toured with Buddy Holly, who himself-that’s his dad- was adopted by the last traditional spiritual chief of the Lakota Sioux Native Americans. Tae was running around the studio with the likes of Stevie Wonder, Elton John and others as a kid. His father left producing to pursue spiritual medicine. Tae was a direct witness to the War on Drugs and how it’s really the only thing that makes gangs possible. It’s the ultimate catalyst for destabilization as he says. Tae got himself into college, went to run a record label. The music industry was digitally disruption and booted Tae to law and eventually, cannabis.

Transcript:

Speaker 2: Tae Darnell joins us and takes us through his background. Roughly 75 percent of his brothers and sisters were adopted by his father and musician, the toward with buddy holly, who himself, that's his dad, was adopted by the last traditional spiritual chief of the Lakota Sioux Native Americans. Tay was running around the studio with the likes of Stevie wonder, Elton John and others as a kid. His father left producing to pursue spiritual medicine. Tay was a direct witness to the war on drugs and how it's really the only thing that makes gangs possible. It's the ultimate catalyst for destabilization, as he says, take out himself into college, went to run a record label. The music industry was digitally disrupted and Buddha tate to law, and eventually cannabis. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handle can economy. That's two ends in the world economy. Tate Darnell, that's read a first launch was in.

Speaker 1: No, it was not. Yeah, it was late in 2016. You launched this thing launched in 2016 and I've just built a juggernaut quickly. Why does it feel new still to me? You know, I think because we started in Denver, boulder really kind of refined the process here and have had really started launching all over the country. So you know, I think much of the countries is getting familiar with the brand now that we have people on the street in many cities and getting rolling. Alright. So we started in Denver, Colorado because if you're going to do something in legal cannabis, it's almost as like a tip of the Cap Colorado. Right. When Rowan approached me and told me it was crazy, he said, you want me to get involved with the magazine? There's not a chance. You know, I really did. I laughed at me. He kept coming back with, for sale for magazine.

Speaker 1: I'd never seen it. Said, what are you talking about? Didn't you know the magazine yet? And you know, he uh, he comes from big industry magazines, you know, his last company he built from one to 600 markets in four years. And so we're going to get into your background and kind of, you know, how you got to here and what we're doing now, ron though. So Ron cold is your partner. That's right. I will not say partner in crime. Uh, but your partner is far as he's concerned and you're saying since he was a brand that was already out there and since he wasn't a brand that was out, there was nothing that he created, you know, we've developed and built it over this really over the last couple of years when he came to you in 2016, he said, I think this is a good idea because why?

Speaker 1: Because he, you know, he has a son with autism. Okay. And he came to Colorado looking for answers, um, and was looking for resources and it looked at all the different available publications and really saw a place where we could fill a niche that was relevant and, you know, jumped into it. He's a medical refugee is, that's what we called him and he was looking for, okay, I'm here in Colorado. I might as well read some stuff. That's right. That's right. So it's really what launched it, you know, it's really a passion project and you know, it's, it's a place where we want to get the information out there, but we want to make it accessible. How did he meet you? How did you meet him? How did you guys know? He met me. He came to Colorado and wanted to partner in the business with an attorney.

Speaker 1: <Unk> also had experience in cannabis and started asking a number of people. So my name kept coming up, I guess. Um, and one thing led to another. You know, what's interesting is one of my good friends from college, I kept seeing the sensee mag on social media. I called my good friend because I had seen him doing some video for them. And so what is sensory? You know, I've never even heard of this. The next day they're at, a couple of days later, they're at a, at a board meeting and ron had found another attorney who's going to talk about. Then my buddy mentioned my name is Ed Taylor, no disaster about you. And somebody kicked ron next to him. Don't know. So that's how we ended up meeting an interest ultimately jumping in. All right, so there was a space in the market and then just, you know, before we get into what is exactly happening, um, we'll go back in, in your history, but just quickly, what is that open space?

Speaker 1: What's your tagline? So, so really it's the new normal Sensi magazine. And really the goal here is to really engage this process of cannabis for what it is. It's, it's something that's culturally and socially acceptable. If we, you know, look at it in the normal sense that it is. So it's ultimately about creating a magazine that talks about local community that engages local community, also discusses cannabis. But it's something that you can put on your mom's coffee table, you know, no pictures of weed, no girls in bikinis really, you know, just talking about things that are relevant without getting into maybe what someone would call subculture. It's about the articles. That's right. That's right. It's all content. So you don't even have to worry about the pictures. The point. Right. Alright. So now let's go all the way back. I, you know what I've never asked you is where you're from.

Speaker 1: I'm from Denver. Wait a second because there's that twain that I here am. I get asked that a lot. So I grew up in a house with a about 25 people in it. At one point I had 10 boys in one bedroom. I slept in. My Dad had a number of foster kids. What about half native? I have a big portion of the family is black. So I think I developed like a hybrid. What? Sid accent from Denver. Wow. Wait a second. What? Twenty five people in the house. People knows we had 10 boys in my bedroom so I didn't grow up with, with a whole lot of money, but I got a lot of experience. How. Wait. So where were you age wise? Within? I have so many because the kid, a young kid, you know, and we, we uh. How many within the 10 boys were you in the middle?

Speaker 1: Middle? Yeah. Well it gets a little closer to the top. Okay. You know, three quarters. Got It. And so you are your dad's biological, biological son and. But how much percentage? We're not I guess a 75. Okay. Yeah, there's no me and my biological brother. Two sisters. Okay. Those are all bio and then the other side we have got a ton of brothers and sisters. My Dad was adopted by the last traditional spiritual chief, the Lakota Sioux. So that's how that came into my life. And what was, how was he in a position to be adopted? May I ask from his production career in the music business. So he was producing an artist named buddy redbow and ended up being the first inductee to the native American Music Hall of fame. My Dad's father committed suicide when he was really young. Okay. So fullscript met my dad and was like, I want to adopt you and teach you the medicine.

Speaker 2: Tae Darnell joins us and takes us through his background. Roughly 75 percent of his brothers and sisters were adopted by his father and musician, the toward with buddy holly, who himself, that's his dad, was adopted by the last traditional spiritual chief of the Lakota Sioux Native Americans. Tay was running around the studio with the likes of Stevie wonder, Elton John and others as a kid. His father left producing to pursue spiritual medicine. Tay was a direct witness to the war on drugs and how it's really the only thing that makes gangs possible. It's the ultimate catalyst for destabilization, as he says, take out himself into college, went to run a record label. The music industry was digitally disrupted and Buddha tate to law, and eventually cannabis. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the handle can economy. That's two ends in the world economy. Tate Darnell, that's read a first launch was in.

Speaker 1: No, it was not. Yeah, it was late in 2016. You launched this thing launched in 2016 and I've just built a juggernaut quickly. Why does it feel new still to me? You know, I think because we started in Denver, boulder really kind of refined the process here and have had really started launching all over the country. So you know, I think much of the countries is getting familiar with the brand now that we have people on the street in many cities and getting rolling. Alright. So we started in Denver, Colorado because if you're going to do something in legal cannabis, it's almost as like a tip of the Cap Colorado. Right. When Rowan approached me and told me it was crazy, he said, you want me to get involved with the magazine? There's not a chance. You know, I really did. I laughed at me. He kept coming back with, for sale for magazine.

Speaker 1: I'd never seen it. Said, what are you talking about? Didn't you know the magazine yet? And you know, he uh, he comes from big industry magazines, you know, his last company he built from one to 600 markets in four years. And so we're going to get into your background and kind of, you know, how you got to here and what we're doing now, ron though. So Ron cold is your partner. That's right. I will not say partner in crime. Uh, but your partner is far as he's concerned and you're saying since he was a brand that was already out there and since he wasn't a brand that was out, there was nothing that he created, you know, we've developed and built it over this really over the last couple of years when he came to you in 2016, he said, I think this is a good idea because why?

Speaker 1: Because he, you know, he has a son with autism. Okay. And he came to Colorado looking for answers, um, and was looking for resources and it looked at all the different available publications and really saw a place where we could fill a niche that was relevant and, you know, jumped into it. He's a medical refugee is, that's what we called him and he was looking for, okay, I'm here in Colorado. I might as well read some stuff. That's right. That's right. So it's really what launched it, you know, it's really a passion project and you know, it's, it's a place where we want to get the information out there, but we want to make it accessible. How did he meet you? How did you meet him? How did you guys know? He met me. He came to Colorado and wanted to partner in the business with an attorney.

Speaker 1: <Unk> also had experience in cannabis and started asking a number of people. So my name kept coming up, I guess. Um, and one thing led to another. You know, what's interesting is one of my good friends from college, I kept seeing the sensee mag on social media. I called my good friend because I had seen him doing some video for them. And so what is sensory? You know, I've never even heard of this. The next day they're at, a couple of days later, they're at a, at a board meeting and ron had found another attorney who's going to talk about. Then my buddy mentioned my name is Ed Taylor, no disaster about you. And somebody kicked ron next to him. Don't know. So that's how we ended up meeting an interest ultimately jumping in. All right, so there was a space in the market and then just, you know, before we get into what is exactly happening, um, we'll go back in, in your history, but just quickly, what is that open space?

Speaker 1: What's your tagline? So, so really it's the new normal Sensi magazine. And really the goal here is to really engage this process of cannabis for what it is. It's, it's something that's culturally and socially acceptable. If we, you know, look at it in the normal sense that it is. So it's ultimately about creating a magazine that talks about local community that engages local community, also discusses cannabis. But it's something that you can put on your mom's coffee table, you know, no pictures of weed, no girls in bikinis really, you know, just talking about things that are relevant without getting into maybe what someone would call subculture. It's about the articles. That's right. That's right. It's all content. So you don't even have to worry about the pictures. The point. Right. Alright. So now let's go all the way back. I, you know what I've never asked you is where you're from.

Speaker 1: I'm from Denver. Wait a second because there's that twain that I here am. I get asked that a lot. So I grew up in a house with a about 25 people in it. At one point I had 10 boys in one bedroom. I slept in. My Dad had a number of foster kids. What about half native? I have a big portion of the family is black. So I think I developed like a hybrid. What? Sid accent from Denver. Wow. Wait a second. What? Twenty five people in the house. People knows we had 10 boys in my bedroom so I didn't grow up with, with a whole lot of money, but I got a lot of experience. How. Wait. So where were you age wise? Within? I have so many because the kid, a young kid, you know, and we, we uh. How many within the 10 boys were you in the middle?

Speaker 1: Middle? Yeah. Well it gets a little closer to the top. Okay. You know, three quarters. Got It. And so you are your dad's biological, biological son and. But how much percentage? We're not I guess a 75. Okay. Yeah, there's no me and my biological brother. Two sisters. Okay. Those are all bio and then the other side we have got a ton of brothers and sisters. My Dad was adopted by the last traditional spiritual chief, the Lakota Sioux. So that's how that came into my life. And what was, how was he in a position to be adopted? May I ask from his production career in the music business. So he was producing an artist named buddy redbow and ended up being the first inductee to the native American Music Hall of fame. My Dad's father committed suicide when he was really young. Okay. So fullscript met my dad and was like, I want to adopt you and teach you the medicine.

Speaker 1: And I was told had wanted to teach at white personally medicine was what he was told. So that was kind of this linear. It was created there. Oh my goodness. So when, when was he adopted? What age was he? He was in his early twenties. So what, when did his dad died? His Dad died when he was about 12 I think, or 13. So that in between period. What was he doing? Have mom, but you know, come on his own as a musician. Went on tour with buddy holly after he graduated high school and like get Outta here to there. But he had suffered from polio. So the doctors told him to move to Colorado and he moved here and became a Vegan and an original medical. Got Rid of all the forecasts. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Alright, so now we're talking about your great grandfather who toured with buddy holly.

Speaker 1: No, my dad sees him older. Seventy five? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, no, that makes sense though. Yeah. Eighteen years old. He went on tour with his band. I think they were the velvet teens was his band. Wow. And then he wasn't in the plane? No, obviously. Nope, not in the plant, right? Fortunately. Yeah. Uh, that was the day the music died. Don will tell you that with the big bopper. Absolutely. Oh my goodness. Yeah. What did he ever tell you stories about playing with buddy holly? Uh, not as many buddy holly. Lot of Caribou ranch where he was, there was a recording studio near Nederland, which was the biggest in the world at that time. They did 25 consecutive number ones. So as a kid I was up there, Chicago and Elton John and Stevie wonder and all kinds of different. So he's a studio musician. He's a producer, producer to sort of these 25 number ones with these centers.

Speaker 1: You on all of them. Engineer on some of them, but not engaged and all that. And then holy wow, really left at all with, to pursue the medicine with fools grove. Kinda gave it all up. And wait a sec. All right. So this is a lot more than I had anticipated. So what artists, let's just make sure that we understand that. Uh, I mean the, the artists that were in and around that, I think you worked with Elton John Holland, oates, Chicago, stevie wonder. Um, I can't even remember some of them. Did you meet any of these people as a little guy, you know, and growing up, one of my dad's best friends with John Denver, so we'd go hang out with here. Yeah, my God, that's a uh, exactly God. Oh God. Oh God. Oh God, it's. I thought it was.

Speaker 1: So John Denver's a buddy. Fantastic. You're in and out of the. Do you remember? I mean, do you remember Stevie wonder for instance? So a donut. You know, Tara, you know, I met, uh, not really. I remember being up there, but I don't really remember any of the guys. I know some of the guys later on know, like some of the players. Okay. So at the studio, really exactly. My uncle Phillip Bailey used to live in our basement of earth, wind and fire was an example when I was a kid. So my serious drama for them. Yeah. What? This is amazing seal. Alright. So he's obviously got these musical roots and you're saying he gave it up for the medicine. Exactly. To pursue that side. Why? What you know is just a, a, the dynamic at Caribou was there was a person in charge that was really a struggle for most people to deal with and he just, you know, it wasn't feeding what he wanted fed in his life.

Speaker 1: So he got it, you know, when that opportunity came as the first white person will be taught the traditional medicine and so he just left it all and we were broke where? Right. That's, that's, that's the key to life. Right. Or the second part of what you said, but the first part of what you said, how did he pay the bills? You know, it, it just made it through. I actually have no clue how it happened. Who was producing records and there was different projects here and there from a to B and we had a good community around it. Nuts. Nuts. All right, so now you're in this house with 25 people. There's 10 brothers living in the same room. So you know when people complain about square footage, you really don't. That's right. That's right. You don't have to. You're not going to shed a tear.

Speaker 1: And the impact of the war on drugs, on people that are brown, you know, so. So this is something that you see as almost. It's not even a full over. It's a half step. Yeah, that's it. You no direct impact. Direct impact. Talk more about that. What do you mean? What did when you were in your teens, especially the black side of my family in Denver, no direct witness to police brutality or direct witness to just the impact of the drug war and how it really is the only thing that makes gangs possible. You know, it's the ultimate destabilization factor. So do you have an example of maybe the 10 year and walking around and some of you have eaten, treated one way and some of you've eaten treating the other way or. Yeah, I mean even driving cars, you know, if I were to drive we wouldn't get pulled over.

Speaker 1: Right. It's the, you just ran through the stop sign when I'm in the past there's like, no, he didn't run through the stop sign, you know, we're in the car. Right. You know, we have a significant. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's aggressive and it gets people frustrated and turns them in the wrong direction. And then it tends to gangs is what you're pointing, right? That's right. I didn't really see. It's the funding mechanism, you know, when people are poor, it's a quick access point is drugs and the only thing that they're fighting for is that drug terrain. A holy wow. Tay Darnell. Okay. So this is where we're coming from. We don't even know really how the rent's getting paid, but it's getting paid. Eventually you reach a point where you can go out and work. Right. So, you know, what were some of your jobs is like a kid, you know, as a kid, really for me, I mean the ones that I talk about, it was really the pizza, the pizza place, you know, that's why I worked through high school.

Speaker 1: Got It. So unfortunately or fortunately I tested well, you know, it wasn't, uh, it wasn't the most tolerable student, but my brain works well so I kept the minimum GPA to play basketball and fortunately the act they've school forced me to take it. I said, you're going to this, what'd you take for college? I said, I'm not going to college, you know, we do, but I got a scholarship because of the act which would make me end up going to college and what school? Northern Colorado. All right. And am I hearing that you played ball for Northern California? And I wish that's what I wanted to, you know, fortunately genetics took over there. Well, and speaking of genetics, you and I looked at each other. Ida, I that uh, I'm not tall. That's right. Yeah, that's right. So you would have been a point guard or. Yeah, it was a point guard and I was good, you know, but you suddenly realize there's people that are really good.

Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I can. I can be really good on most courts until you play those guys that are really, really good. That's exactly it. I have a lot of talent on this court. It's really not that. That's right. That's right. Stay in your lane, right? I spoke to John Salley. Never played on the West fourth courts in New York City for that reason. Right? That's right. Go out there against the six slash seven. Dude. That's faster change quickly. All right, so you're kind of taping stuff together, working in pizza places, et cetera. You get into school, your brain works. You don't like being a student, but you. When did you realize that that would maybe benefit? You either know it. I don't even think I realized an Undergrad, you know, when it just was one of those things that came about that somehow I was launched into this space as a lawyer.

Speaker 1: The wended that's 2007 was really when I started practicing cannabis law. Hold on one second. You're well, you're still in college, right? College and straight into the music business. So at that time, my dad in the late eighties had made a recording for an author. A new age is what you'd call it, right? New Age music shirt. My brother started a record label around. It became a very big one. What was the record label? It was called Atherian music. Okay. Um, so when I graduated college, I wanted to work in music too. So the, my brother had some friends, there was a, there was a guy in boulder named Jonathan Goldman. He founded the international sound dealers association is looking for someone to run his label. He was born as a Jew. I already was and still is. Still is. Uh, and uh, they, you know, they, you needed a general manager.

Speaker 1: So basically you told me, I've been running my brothers label for years. I'm just lied. Not here's what I think based on the fact that I get to talk to a lot of people and I can tell a lie from a fib from, uh, that what you just said, that's faking it until you make it. It's all right man, maybe it wasn't even a lie, you know, what? Maybe more involved that maybe an exaggerated involvement. Here we go, the better better. But Jonathan harming anyone, like a lie is something that maybe there's a, there's a victim then there's no victim. There was, there was a benefit to. Exactly. So it gives me the GM spot at this label when we grow it through the roof. So I grew, I grew, um, 500 percent quickly. What was the name of that was called spirit music. Okay.

Speaker 1: So we had a few records in what's called the sound healings genre. I didn't even really know what it was when I went into it. Never even heard of it. Fine based theory, frequency, everything that's alive vibrates. If you create a healthy frequency, you can then create health, you know, theoretically works really well now that I know about it. Right? Got It. So, but we grew it when one, a bunch of albums of the year start winning new age album of the year awards. What? Uh, there was a big organization called the coalition of visionary resources that actually my brother and I started just kind of a on a Napkin idea from a trade show that had, that had started. So we formed this organization that grew to 10,000 members and that's the organization that the label one we want a bunch of awards through. I don't think we didn't fix it, but who knows, we might have been popular.

Speaker 1: Right. Um, and then we merged those two ladies almost say we didn't fix it. Like regretfully, you're like, we weren't smart enough to figure out. Right. And I wouldn't know. So, but we merged the two labels became a very big. We were one of the biggest independence in the world at that time. We as an organization called the Association for Independent Music. Sure. Uh, when they wrote the dam exactly. If I am at that point. Right, okay. Um, when they wrote the digital Millennium Copyright Act, they had the congress at the five majors advise plus one. It's labeled from the independent industry. We were like 14 or 15 percent of the whole music industry at that time. The entire independent collective of labels. Got It. So we represented the independent industry at that time in that table at that table. Right. That's a big table. It was big. He was big and we were pretty dismissed.

Speaker 1: Oh sure. You know what was brought from him, what would have been at that table, right? Yeah. I mean you don't even remember. It was basically the attorneys from all the bouquets wasn't the CEO's Ocala big five and the attorneys. Right. So. And they're like adopted digital platform. We had, we said, look, we got to adopt this digital platform where somebody could come in and make music free. And what year was they were laughing at us, is around 97. 90 eight. Yup. You know, napster came and killed all of his dead. Amazing, right? Yeah. And Real. So as far as napster coming in, you kind of felt something. Was gonna Happen? Did you, were you aware of napster already? Was not aware of Napster, but you knew it was coming. You don't really. What W, what the Indians wanted to do is at least get people culturally adopted to paying for music still digitally.

Speaker 1: What happened? Yeah, just you know, and then what happened is napster hit and doctors and lawyers and people that you'd otherwise I think we're honest, had no problem stealing music. Well, which, you know, which brings us to today where people really don't think that you should pay for music. That's right. Based on the past 20 years of that. And that's right. And it's sad, you know, these artists, artists that we used to make 50 a year, 75 a year, just it's not sustainable, cannot do it and not everybody can tour the arguments go tour. But if you're a new age artists, you're not touring around with whatever chant music, you know. Right. So it does create less art creates less and less good art to. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So alright, so you went through that disruption, which basically sounds like it kind of booted you out.

Speaker 1: Did you know we hung on for life as long as we possibly could. Finally it six was when I cut the rope. So you 20 or 30 years, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ten years. And I finally just had to cut the rope and move in. So at that time, that's when I, I was serving as a, I was working for an all pro sport, started working for all for sports and entertainment, which is the biggest, the biggest, uh, sports management, really firm in the country on the NFL side at 93 players and that's when I went to law school, you know, and just became gc for that. When did you realize that you could be a lawyer and then when did you realize that you should be a lawyer? Could Young. Okay, good. Was Young. I knew I had the brain for. It was about passing tests and getting through school.

Speaker 1: Okay. You know that part, but then, you know, they didn't really realize that it might. My industry is effectively disappearing. What am I gonna do with this? So it was sports and entertainment was going to be the direction. At the same time, Sean mcallister, who is my, my legal partner. You know what, when we first entered the fray and cannabis was head started sensible Colorado back in the early two thousands. So he had a prominent pointed Brian [inaudible] to be the executive director of that. And just as really, I'd become effectively general counsel, all pro sports entertainment. This is 2007, 2008, however you tied into Sean and those John was an old buddy of one of my friends that went to law school with him and see you got it. So we were, had stayed friends were old Colorado, all of us history. Right. And then all of a sudden here comes in industry as cannabis, you know.

Speaker 1: So suddenly I'm. What's a cannabis lawyer, right? There was none of them. So it was really. You mentioned one of them present day, right? It's right. So, so, and he, even, he wasn't practicing when we started practicing cannabis law. He was still focused on the policy. Sensible side. Right. So it was really Sean, myself, a rob corey was doing some stuff and warrant edson and that was it. And just blast it off. You know, Sean won the suit in 2007. He in, I can't remember the other name to turn. He, Brian, and I can't remember the other two, but they sued the Department of Health over what it effectively happen when we passed the constitutional amendment in Colorado is a department of health came in and said a caregiver cannot have more than five patients. The answer to that question is probably in the first dozen episodes of this podcast, you know, did Brian Earley and Christian?

Speaker 1: And so they grabbed it. Yeah. So yeah. No notice, didn't do it properly. And boom, there's a cannabis industry. When did you get hooked into a crna? Right. So Crna, you know, we were very involved. MCALESTER Darnell and associates, another early partner Jus Gottlieb. We represented hundreds and probably thousands by the time we're done of the businesses. So helped with early legislation here. Twelve 80 a SB, one of w we had hp 1280. Well, 1280 is a big one, right? Then we went into amendment 64, right. Helped with, um, in 2010 and 11 I drafted Hawaii's first version of their legislation. Oh. Um, and then in 13, after 64 went through, I had launched my sports agency. I had left all pro launch, the sports agency was having really good success there. So you're doing double time, double time sports agency in the cannabis practice, right. Um, and was really focusing more toward the sport's agency.

Speaker 1: You know, for me, my civil rights movement was about liberalizing this drug to a point that at least I thought it would be almost decriminalized. So 64 for you. That was my big winner. I did it that it was not I of course, exactly. I don't know, but I did what I wanted to accomplish in this space, that space. Exactly. Very complete for me. God knew there was people out there doing great work. Um, and then Tom approached me, you know, I get a random call again, kind of the same, same way that sensee came. Yeah, I need an attorney. Can you come meet with me tomorrow? Meet with you tomorrow. So man, I'm really not even doing much, just practice anymore. And then I said, you know who I am? I said, I don't, I beyond Tom Bullock though, who I don't. So he explained to Zynga background as cofounder is good right now I believe an IPO and I'm thinking okay, I'd be an idiot not to at least see what's going on here.

Speaker 1: Take the meeting is right. So he told me about the guy he's meeting with and I told him, I said, you know, man, what's going to happen? Supposedly had been offered million a year, but blah blah. I just told them what was happening was not going to happen and it was good. I basically told them what was gonna happen and it can pay me to be there all day if you wanted me to be but that run for the hills with this offer. Huh? Show up to the meeting. And that's exactly what it really was. Just kind of a false flag. So really we started talking and he said, you know, I want to get in this space and you know, ultimately decided to go in the route of, of the ancillary side and, and really where we saw mass growth coming in and worked with an old friend of his Stephen King who had steven and brandy Kenyan who had really an equipment technology company.

Speaker 1: We rolled since it rolled into cerner. Okay. So that was starting to. I want to make sure I understand that other meeting, what, what happened there? I feel like it really can't go too much into it actually. Okay. So there was a little bit of was just the attorney client thing. So there was a heating, you know how I said things would happen that happened. Got It. So we can look this up on the Internet digitally. Yeah, exactly. But something that was, might have happened didn't happen, which allowed you to get to crna the crna thing. And then when did you kind of say, you know what, I think I'm good here. You know, certain it was in a really good spot. So we, when we took certain public through reverse merge, you learn a lot of things the hard way. Oh yeah. With that.

Speaker 1: We've gotten a couple of guests through toxic debt, but we were one of the fortunate ones, you know Tom, we were about nine months in and Tom got divorced from his husband. Okay. So he gets divorced from his husband. Really, you know, he said I'm Outta here, right. Knows too much emotionally what was going on. So I became interim ceo at that time. I was able to rescue the company really that the team was able within that, but we were able to convert what was the toxic debt shares. So we stopped what they call a death spiral, stabilize the stock, got it up to 25 and when I left Israel 23 to twenty five cents and it was just in a good spot, you know, and also the Keanes at that time I felt like were really ready to just kind of take the reins and run with that company, you know, and I had a good position and still very supportive of them.

Speaker 1: So we're realizing that there's a, an entrepreneurial streak to say the least. That's right within you. That's right. I like to jump. So finally, it seems like you've, you get this company to a place in an industry which is burgeoning, where you could like kinda stick around for a couple of years and have it maybe a little bit easier than, you know, reinventing this and then reinventing that and then launching that and then reinventing this again. It's like the Internet for me, the star Crnas in a stable spot. I've got a nice position there. Yeah, they're in good hands. You know, they've got good leadership, good executive leadership right now. But why not? That's what I'm saying. Like why, why would you go into the next thing, the serial entrepreneur mindset? Explain it. It's the, uh, it's the person that I guess wants more, you know, I love, I love the mentality of creating and building a company, especially if people think it can't happen.

Speaker 1: You see, so and it's a real opportunity. So when folks come up to you and they're like, oh, okay. So another kind of magazines, social media company. And when, when they say that to you and they're like, you know, showing you off like, oh, come on another, we don't need it. You're like, oh, this is exactly why I'm doing the watch in Denver. It's been fun like that. I told Ronnie was crazy. I really did. And suddenly our events have, you know, 5,000 people out of and it's incredible. And so that's our first la event was great. A thousand people through the door there. So the magazine first, it's a community gathering, is it? It's really a, it's a magazine built on building community because really, you know, really core fundamental values, number one really being like giving spirit. That is if you give first you will typically receive.

Speaker 1: So we, you know, we go in and we, when we are talking to partners or talking to potential advertisers, we're, we're asking them what do you need right now? How can we help? And it's a big focus of all of our publishers is to really see where we can assist, see where we can help bridge communication, see where we can solve problems for, you know, one of the difficulties all of these companies have because they don't talk to everybody. We do. So we know if somebody has extra product for processing, we know somebody has additional capacity where you can handle this load, you know, we know if somebody is looking for a certain product lines so we can make those introductions and help people grow. Got It. So really, you know, it's, it's the ability to whether or not the whole community thrive, whether or not they're giving you an adult.

Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah. It's happened plenty. Have plenty of good relationships, great relationships with people that aren't advertisers. You know, we know that the formula itself, when you help, it tends to return. And you, you were explaining before we turned on the microphones, it's kind of, it's kind of, it's absolutely decentralized. That's right. That's right. So each market has an independent leadership and it's really the markets themselves. Why don't we want to tell the story of the city or the area, you know, the Emerald Triangle is not la. So the track, right. Denver is not southern Colorado. The Emerald Triangle is not San Francisco or Oakland. That's right. Yeah. All of them will have separate voices. So it's really capturing that independent voice within this community. All right, so where are you're in California or in Colorado? Where else are you? We've got 23 markets selling I think as of today.

Speaker 1: So we've got. Bear with me, we've got everything from Boston to Delaware to Maryland to Chicago to Michigan to most all of California, a zone Zona Florida and growing quickly. International or not yet Canada's beginning. Okay. And we're looking at Europe right now, so, you know, we have about 70 markets we plan to launch over the next year and a half. So they'll print and different, you know, different waves. Why print in the 21st century, you know, and that's what I, that's what I asked Ron. I said you're crazy. You know, and really what it is is that first, it's a free magazine, right? So for us it's, it's the ability to go in and touch and feel and connect on that personal level and when free you could use that as the vehicle to bring community together. So really it's one of those things that on the print side, when people get a hold it, it's real, you know, prince just, it's a catalyst.

Speaker 1: Really. Yeah. That's a catalyst. And your point being my facebook friends aren't my friends, so you know, digital certainly has to be there. It's important, but being actually in physically in the community through the magazine or the events is the trick. That's right. That's different, you know, it's just different. And the digital sides relevant, it'll always be relative course. Of course. That's the, that's almost the easy bits. Right, right. That's right. Interesting. Yeah, and I mean print, you know what I mean? Ron came from a print is dead era. They told him, told him Brent was dead. He built 600 markets, have 1300 magazines for years in a company that's worth probably half a billion dollars. What company is that? Did we talk about that? He worked for a company called best version media and one of the largest private. What magazine might we know from that, you know, is all local community magazine, so you probably wouldn't know any of them.

Speaker 1: Bless you. Lived in Greenwood village gazette or something or the Asheville, whatever. That's right. That's right. It's very pointed in the way that. And that's exactly how he's building. And you are building this. That's right. That's right. You know, we kind of use cannabis as a community. Yeah. So pointing toward communities in different markets and telling the stories, those communities. All right, so 70 markets we want to launch in 2018, is that where we said yeah, 2018, 20, 19. So that's enough growth over those couple of years for you to keep doing this at least a little bit. Yeah. I think ultimately we'll have three to 500 markets because my guess is we look at the US and in the process of legalization, you know there's a very accessible 500 markets. I am hot on the fact that dea scheduling needs to be the focus now as opposed to, you mentioned Brian Vicenta and, and all of the incredible work they've done, all of the work that all of those guys and gals have done rather than turning Georgia.

Speaker 1: My hope is that we all can focus on d scheduling. Absolutely. You know what I mean? That's the dream. But I think it's the, we're at, it's high time if you will. That's where we should really focus on that, you know, never been closer to or further. Right? Well that's it. I mean, what Jeff sessions has said is these are the laws, so if you want me to act differently, change the law. That's right. And I think that that's what it's got to be focused on. Repeal and replace. The controlled Substances Act is my, uh, it's tm in the way. And uh, you know, what, you replace it with nothing. Nothing is given to say we don't need those laws. The draconian war is over, which you know, from being in the car, it's a race war for being in the house from being in the bedroom.

Speaker 1: That's right. That's right. It's a catalyst for destabilization and just, you know, it feeds a certain mechanism. I think the private prison industry would fight us pretty, pretty hard once you start to unpack it, it's like, oh no, no, no. We like this. We need this. Exactly. This and who needs this and why they liked victimless crime. Very beneficial, right? That's right. That's right. And so this brings us back to the lying and the, you know, for, for you to, for you to fake it until you make it. That's different than the phentenol maker that's putting in running against cannabis in Arizona. See what I'm saying? It is true, but it's a good lie. All right, so I've got three final questions for I could keep going and it's, it's amazing by the way, that I'm this far into this because you and I know each other for years and then this is your first time, but hopefully we can do this again with the microphone because I know I'll probably see you at a covenant if you had a sense he didn't interviewing some people.

Speaker 1: There we go. We can do that. We'll talk about that after we do this. I'll give you the three final questions. I'll tell you what they are. I'll ask you them in order. What's most surprised you in cannabis? What's most surprised you in life and on the soundtrack of your life? One track, one song that's got to be on there that's going to be difficult for you. Yeah. First things first. What's most surprised you in cannabis? What has most surprised me again, but as well, that's really. It's actually an interesting question. I would say probably what most surprised me at cannabis is how quickly we got adult use through [inaudible] at this phase of the game. [inaudible] have never seen before in Colorado. Right. Tipping point where we're even what's happening nationally now. I see. I thought we were years out on that. I really did. I thought we were inching toward acceptance.

Speaker 1: Got It. Well, we got an. I say the. We all like Brian and Christian. You know that betty, betty, and all the incredible catalyst that made this possible for that to happen that quickly as we were working on this, I was the guy saying guys. Then the pulleys not pulling numbers started coming, but I was still like, this is not going to happen. Didn't happen. You know, it's holy Shit. Yeah. So that's my. I'd say up to this point, my biggest present cannabis. That's a good answer. What's most surprised you in life was what surprised me. The life that somehow I'm a lawyer. Yeah. If you go back to the bedroom with the 10 wasn't. It was I was headed toward the other side of this industry as a kid. Let's put it this way. Did you even have like a bad, like how did that work?

Speaker 1: Beds we had, we had bunk beds and then some of us sleep in the same bed and we kind of rotated. There was, you know, so we had two bunk beds, trendal bed and then to regular beds. So one, two, three, one, two, three, four, five, six beds, 10 boys. And you rotate. Somebody got the single sometimes you know, was there kind of. I fought every day with my sister because there was nothing to fight about I guess. Right. I'm asking you in that situation was there maybe less fighting just because you kind of room there was fighting for sure, but we were like, you know, we had our own sports team. There was, it was an event because it was girls do you know, there's a lot of us cruised around, so it was an entertaining pile of humans running around. We didn't notice, you know, your kids.

Speaker 1: We didn't notice or remember how fast I had to eat. Took me to be an adult, you know, my thirties to realize I didn't have to eat all my food every single time. It still can't leave food. I still give it to homeless people to vendor would always take my leftovers, you know, like I still have those ticks because if there was seconds, some nights it was a big thing. So you have to get, get into it quick, I'd say. I mean, I, uh, we definitely have different backgrounds as far as that's concerned, but I went, I'm trying to take off a few pounds. I, I have a tough time. I will not leave food. It's for the summer. You're, you're guilted starving kids there. I just, I can't do it. And so, you know, that's why I got to come on. What was then crystallize? What was the, uh, what has most surprised you in life?

Speaker 1: Oh, that's, you're a lawyer. A lawyer. I'm also surprised now, after, after the fact, I was surprised when I met you first, you know, I didn't expect to be one of the really, you know, really. I mean, it's an incredible thing to have been one of the first to start this thing. They call the, they call it the Colorado model, you know, and being one of those lawyers. Holy Yeah. You did something right. Absolutely. Crazy thing on the soundtrack of your life. One track, one song that's got to be on there like a one a be redemption. So go bob. Bob Marley. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably, it's nearly a perfect song. It's either that or it's a thrilling. So fuck in there, but yeah, redemption song just perfect. You know? Yeah, that's in there. Yeah. It was like almost disco call will know that I've, I'm, I'm pretty sure that it sounds almost exactly like that, but I can see though that's dead would be Bob, right? Oh my God. You know, failure, failure, failure to. But first, I mean, yeah, we agree. We're agreeing here. Tay Darnell, man, good talking to you

Speaker 2: and there you have taped are now. I mean that's why we do the show. I've known for years and had no clue about his background at all in any way. I mean, you know, I caught up to him when I started knowing, so thanks to him. Thanks to your state town.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.