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Ep.320: Steve DeAngelo, Harborside

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.320: Steve DeAngelo, Harborside

Ep.320: Steve DeAngelo, Harborside

Steve DeAngelo returns to discuss California since new regulations went into affect on January 1st, and his thoughts on the rescission of the Cole Memos which happened January 4th. Steve does commend the Bureau of Cannabis Control for hitting the 1/1 date as it did go more smoothly than he expected. That said, Steve notes that the real hard work happens now- between 1/1 and 7/1 as July 1st is the set date for temporary regulations and licenses to end and the new reality to begin. On the rescission of the Cole & Ogden Memos, Steve says he wasn’t surprised. But he says that a key part of any US Attorney’s job is to survey the totality of lawbreaking that’s happening in their district and identify that lawbreaking which is the greatest public safety threat and focus on it.

Transcript:

Speaker 2: Steve de Angelo returns to discuss California since new regulations went into effect on January first and his thoughts on the rescission of the coal memos, which happened January fourth. Steve does come in the bureau of cannabis control for hitting the one slash one date as it did go more smoothly than they expected. That said, he notes that the real hard work happens now between one one and seven, one s July first is a set date for temporary regulations in licenses to end and the new reality to begin on, the rescission of the call and Ogden memo, Steve says he wasn't surprised, but notes that a key part of any US attorney's job is to surveyed the totality of law breaking that's happening in their district and identify that law breaking, which is the greatest public safety threat. And focus on it. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the Hana can economy. That's two ends of the word economy. Steve D'angelo,

Speaker 1: I've just been through. Alright, so harborside dispensary's. Now there's other flourish. Yes. What about two years ago we started extending out along the supply chain, right? So we have a cultivation facility and the beautiful Salinas Valley where we're producing a clean green, not organic, but clean green, clean green has decide free cannabis. Got It. And Oh, and we've begun a manufacturing that output into some branded products which are available in our dispensary's now will be available in dispensaries throughout the state and the next few weeks just in time for January first for, you know, this whole new world. Right. So you would have then had to apply for all of the licenses. Right? We have, we have, uh, we have applied for and received at this point. We've applied for I think north of 20 licenses total problem and we've received most of them thus far. So yeah, we uh, are now cultivation, manufacturing, retail and distribution license.

Speaker 1: Excellent. Okay. And just as far as that process, how did this all go? Because we spoke, you know, months and even years in advance of January first 2018 of what was happening and how it was all coming together. So kind of from December 30, first to January, first to January second. In your opinion, how did that all go? You know, as far as, uh, being smooth or otherwise? I, you know, I really, I have to commend the bureau of Cannabis Control and California for hitting that one, one date, quite frankly. I thought they were going to push it back and I think given the amount of time that they had that it went more smoothly than I would've expected it to go. And, uh, and, and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a totally new world for us. So, uh, there's a, there's a lot of things that we can't do that we used to do, a lot of things that we have to do that we didn't ever do before.

Speaker 1: I'm a huge changes in our policies and procedures in the customer experience and the ways that we package and track a and receive and transport cannabis. Uh, but I'll tell you the moment when that clock hits 6:00 on one one, and I did the first sale of cannabis to my attorney Henry White, who's the guy that's really responsible that were existed to this day through the federal assault, right? The Lion, the lion of San Francisco. It was possibly the single most joyous moment of my life. And right after I made that sale, uh, I watched the 300 plus people who had been lined up outside waiting for the moment. You come in and, you know, human beings have a lot of different ways of expressing happiness. And sometimes they're like thrilled. And you know, sometimes they're like lustful, sometimes they're intoxicated, right? This was just the most amazing looks of pure joy on people's faces.

Speaker 1: You could see years and years of the weight of stigma in law being lifted off of people's shoulders and that they were tasting this, this taste of freedom that they had never tasted before in their lives. And everybody felt so good. It was just such a beautiful moment. I'll, I'll, uh, try to make it even more beautiful for you in your mind by asking if, if Jack was kind of standing in the corner, Jack or what, what might he have said at 6:00 on one one? Oh, Jack was right there dancing on my shoulder. Uh, there was a whole army of angels that dancing on my shoulder on that morning. And, and they still are, um, uh, you know, we are seeing now the cannabis renaissance spread across this globe in, in, in, at the speed at which we always hoped and thought that it should finally, it's happening.

Speaker 2: Steve de Angelo returns to discuss California since new regulations went into effect on January first and his thoughts on the rescission of the coal memos, which happened January fourth. Steve does come in the bureau of cannabis control for hitting the one slash one date as it did go more smoothly than they expected. That said, he notes that the real hard work happens now between one one and seven, one s July first is a set date for temporary regulations in licenses to end and the new reality to begin on, the rescission of the call and Ogden memo, Steve says he wasn't surprised, but notes that a key part of any US attorney's job is to surveyed the totality of law breaking that's happening in their district and identify that law breaking, which is the greatest public safety threat. And focus on it. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on social with the Hana can economy. That's two ends of the word economy. Steve D'angelo,

Speaker 1: I've just been through. Alright, so harborside dispensary's. Now there's other flourish. Yes. What about two years ago we started extending out along the supply chain, right? So we have a cultivation facility and the beautiful Salinas Valley where we're producing a clean green, not organic, but clean green, clean green has decide free cannabis. Got It. And Oh, and we've begun a manufacturing that output into some branded products which are available in our dispensary's now will be available in dispensaries throughout the state and the next few weeks just in time for January first for, you know, this whole new world. Right. So you would have then had to apply for all of the licenses. Right? We have, we have, uh, we have applied for and received at this point. We've applied for I think north of 20 licenses total problem and we've received most of them thus far. So yeah, we uh, are now cultivation, manufacturing, retail and distribution license.

Speaker 1: Excellent. Okay. And just as far as that process, how did this all go? Because we spoke, you know, months and even years in advance of January first 2018 of what was happening and how it was all coming together. So kind of from December 30, first to January, first to January second. In your opinion, how did that all go? You know, as far as, uh, being smooth or otherwise? I, you know, I really, I have to commend the bureau of Cannabis Control and California for hitting that one, one date, quite frankly. I thought they were going to push it back and I think given the amount of time that they had that it went more smoothly than I would've expected it to go. And, uh, and, and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a totally new world for us. So, uh, there's a, there's a lot of things that we can't do that we used to do, a lot of things that we have to do that we didn't ever do before.

Speaker 1: I'm a huge changes in our policies and procedures in the customer experience and the ways that we package and track a and receive and transport cannabis. Uh, but I'll tell you the moment when that clock hits 6:00 on one one, and I did the first sale of cannabis to my attorney Henry White, who's the guy that's really responsible that were existed to this day through the federal assault, right? The Lion, the lion of San Francisco. It was possibly the single most joyous moment of my life. And right after I made that sale, uh, I watched the 300 plus people who had been lined up outside waiting for the moment. You come in and, you know, human beings have a lot of different ways of expressing happiness. And sometimes they're like thrilled. And you know, sometimes they're like lustful, sometimes they're intoxicated, right? This was just the most amazing looks of pure joy on people's faces.

Speaker 1: You could see years and years of the weight of stigma in law being lifted off of people's shoulders and that they were tasting this, this taste of freedom that they had never tasted before in their lives. And everybody felt so good. It was just such a beautiful moment. I'll, I'll, uh, try to make it even more beautiful for you in your mind by asking if, if Jack was kind of standing in the corner, Jack or what, what might he have said at 6:00 on one one? Oh, Jack was right there dancing on my shoulder. Uh, there was a whole army of angels that dancing on my shoulder on that morning. And, and they still are, um, uh, you know, we are seeing now the cannabis renaissance spread across this globe in, in, in, at the speed at which we always hoped and thought that it should finally, it's happening.

Speaker 1: And, you know, I get asked frequently whether I thought we would see this day. And my answer is no, I, I knew to the core of my soul when I was a very young man that we would see this day. What surprised me was how long it took us here. It should have been sooner, right? So when we, when I, when I get to talk to you and people like you, um, you know, uh, people like me, I've only been involved in this industry for five years, right? And, you know, uh, so that's, uh, a decent amount of time, but it's not compared to the 19 eighties, you know. So, uh, did it take a long time? Yes it did. But here we are. Now, having said that, and we'll probably come back to January first, I'm just three days later, January fourth, uh, we got to different news with the coal memos being rescinded without saying anything else.

Speaker 1: I wonder when that news hit you, what did you think that scumbag. Okay, that's fair. That's a personal. That's a yes. Okay. Understood. I wasn't surprised, you know, I, I really, I expected something like this either just before or just after California. I think the time he actually had probably more to do with the nasty book about the trump administration than anything else and then wanting to get it off of the, off of the front pages. But, uh, the only thing I'm a, there's nothing surprising about this. It was totally expected. I don't think that it has any teeth. Okay. I think that the, that the world has changed and that, you know, a key part of any US attorney's job is to survey the totality of law breaking that's happening in their district and identify that law breaking, which is the greatest public safety threat and focus on it.

Speaker 1: Right. So it's, it is, it's difficult for me to imagine a US attorney deciding that legal tax pain businesses are the ones that they should target, right? It's evident any human being who's living in a cannabis reform state that legalization is a benefit to public safety because it removes the power of cartels, it raises tax money that can be used for greater law enforcement, right? Uh, and uh, and it's, it's absolutely not a detriment, public health or public safety, so any, any well intentioned us attorney living in a cannabis reform state already knows that. They also know that we are in the middle of an opioid crisis that has the largest leading killer of young Americans and it has reduced the longevity of Americans as a whole for the first time in decades. Right? So we've actually got people dropping dead left and right from a really dangerous drug crisis.

Speaker 1: Really, a US attorney in that context is going to decide that going after eight legal, state licensed tax pain cannabis business is the best use of their limited law enforcement resources. It doesn't sound likely unless you consider the fact that in that same week, La and San Diego, a otherwise known for some reason as central California and Northern California, both had a new US attorneys positioned, you know, appointed by a jeff sessions. So if it's that type of person now, um, you know, you guys and I'd like to get into it, uh, dealt with a US attorney in the Obama Administration, uh, who was not too friendly. Let's actually take that tangent now. Uh, if you could give us the quick version of, of what happened and, and, and why. Uh, Henry's in fact the lion, right? Sure. I'm a, well, I'm going to leave the irs part of the story out and make it simple.

Speaker 1: In 2011, the for us attorneys in California declared war on the medical cannabis industry and said they were going to close us down. And one of the main strategies that they use tactics that they used was to send letters to landlords of cannabis businesses and forming them with their properties would be seized unless the cannabis tenant was evicted. That led to the eviction of 600 dispensary's before they got to harbor site. Okay. When they got to us, we did what none of the other 600 dispensary's decided to do, which is stand up and fight. And we went to state court. We went to federal court. It took us almost four years of litigation, but we basically fought the federal government to a standstill and at a, at the end of the day they dismissed the case against us because why? Because why I'm a. well, because I thought they were because they knew that they were going to lose if they carried it any further.

Speaker 1: Well, the and that, that was the resources question and I believe, if I remember correctly, a row record blumenauer was also cited. Yeah. Um, uh, you know, there were some, there were some legal changes that happened in the course of the case and one of them was that the far we're bocker now the robot Blumenauer amendment was passed which gave us some protection and that was something that, uh, that we cited in, in our legal arguments. Um, it was pretty evident to them that if they took it all the way to a trial that we're going to win. So they, so they dropped the case. Uh, the person that led that campaign against us was a woman named Melinda Haig, all the 600 dispensary's before she targeted a harbor site had been less than a thousand feet away from a school and she cited that as a reason to go African Berkeley patients group got Kinda got caught up in that whole thing with their first location, certainly.

Speaker 1: Exactly. Well, she could not make that argument with harbor side because we're not close to any kind of sensitive site. So instead she said that because we were large, uh, that it was more likely that a law breaking was going on. Uh, and so she was targeting us for that. So just be just by sense of, well, there are largely, there must be law breaking going on now we take it forward to now. And we just talked through the many reasons why a US attorney would not take a case. However, record blumenauer is only for medical when it comes to adult use with the precision of the Cole memo is now there's nothing. There is no document, you know, on the adult use side other than state law. That's true. But, um, even in federal trials, the jury pool is pulled from local residents. Right.

Speaker 1: Okay. So if there's any other US attorneys who are eager to come and try and take our rights away, we will be happy to teach them the same lesson we taught Melinda. Hey, even though there's no kind of document, you really are that forthright. It supports what I am doing, right? Our voters support what we're doing. Our elected officials support what we're doing. Our business and investor community supports what we're doing. We're a university. Our University and research community supports what we're doing. I will stand up to anybody with the support of my community and you in on this podcast have explained the great lengths that you've gone to to make sure that the community understands how and why harborside is here. Um, and how and why, you know, kind of help and service that community. Uh, for folks that maybe haven't been in the industry for as long as even me, you know, one, two years with this kind of new, um, it is a change, you know, um, what would you, what advice would you give to new operators who have not been through quite the same battles that you have?

Speaker 1: So, uh, you know, what I've seen over the decade or so since the birth of the legal cannabis industry is, is that there have been, um, uh, increases and decreases and the level of federal enforcement, um, uh, they have never succeeded in stopping the growth of the industry ever, right? They didn't succeed in doing it when they tried to close down the California industry in 2011 and they certainly are not going to succeed in doing it now. Right? So a look at it as an opportunity, understand that to the degree that jeff sessions makes noises, a that's going to keep institutional investors and really, really big players out of the marketplace that's going to leave opportunities for entrepreneurs, for startups, for smaller investors, uh, for a more organic development of an industry that offers more opportunities to more people. So you, you power through it and you know that at the end of the day we win this one.

Speaker 1: It's, it's pretty unbelievable. When I spoke to Jim about this very subject, you know, his point was, you know, he's got a kind of, a more buttoned up approach to the whole thing if I'm not surprised. Yeah. Right. Exactly. I mean, I was going to say with all due respect, I'm sure you understand, um, you know, his, his point was the, it is now up to Congress, you know, uh, to, to, to act on this if, if they'd like. And when they'd like, um, I know that you've got a pretty decent relationship with a fair amount of elected officials. Why? It doesn't seem to me, based on my conversations with them that we are even close to that. I know I saw Corey Gardner, you know, yelling and screaming from the Senate floor and talking about bipartisan meetings. Fantastic. How realistic do you think that is anytime soon for Congress to actually act on cannabis?

Speaker 1: I think the only thing that it would really take to, uh, to impel congress to act and act quickly and act decisively is for one or two US attorneys to undertake the kind of campaign that jeff sessions was greenlighting. Interesting. So even at the time that there is a raid or some sort of, you know, legal action, that's when Congress would come to the aid of the, of the industry? I think so. I, I think to the degree that, that you see increased enforcement against legal state licensed cannabis industries by federal authorities. Yes. You see action to reform cannabis laws by Congress. I think there's a direct relationship between those two things. Mr Silver lining. I mean, it's really seriously speaking to you. It, it, uh, it, it gives me new hope, uh, you know, every time it's a, by definition, you always see it as, um, maybe further down the road or you can see the light at the end of the tunnel and I guess that that's how you've, you know, done it the whole way.

Speaker 1: Right. Is that fair or. Well, you know, I, I have this very lengthy perspective on it and I'm really determined to win. So Italy determined to win. That's fantastic. All right, so then let's get back to this whole paperwork thing that we're doing. I'm from January to July first. We did hit the mark on January first, but there's a whole lot that needs to happen by July first and you know, that's really January first. If, if, uh, if that makes sense. Yeah. That's when we're really going to be buttoned up about this whole thing. Um, how is it going and it's not that much time, but how is it going from your perspective with distribution, with the excise tax being taken out from the middle somehow? Um, how is that all going and you know, is it realistic to think that a July first is um, you know, a good goal still?

Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about what's, what's, what has happened and what's going to happen, right. What has happened is that existing medical cannabis, a licensee's hadn't been given temporary adult use licenses. Indeed they are only allowed to sell to or purchase from other licensed cannabis businesses. However, there is no seed to sale tracking system or really effective enforcement mechanism to enforce that supply chain. Right? So, um, the degree to which it, it, it, it, it is really a fully legal and compliance supply chain remains to be seen. And I think that there, that there will be some challenges there. What have we heard about track and trace? I mean, you know, that was one of the things that Colorado had on the way into January first they had the metric system, they had the track and trace up and running. Where are we as far as, you know, from your perspective on track and trace in California?

Speaker 1: Well, I think the states, you know, pretty clear that they are, they expect to have something in hand by July. Um, I know that we are fully prepared for that, you know, this is, these are systems that we've been using within the harbor side organization since they became available to the cannabis industry. Right. So it's, it's, it's, it's nothing new to us. Um, and uh, my, you know, my hope is that the state gets it done sooner rather than later. Um, you know, right now there's a, the, there has been a lot of bleed between the unlicensed market and the licensed market and it can make it really challenging for licensed producers to have a good place in the market. And when you say bleed between what a reaction to. So for example, let me give you a really striking example of what of what we're looking at right now.

Speaker 1: Almost every manufacturer of cannabis products in California sources trim at a low rate, low price from growers in the northern regions of the state who are exporting. You know, 90 percent of the cannabis that's grown in California, out of state, out of state, 90 percent, 90 percent of what's grown and maybe 80 percent, nobody knows, but it's most of what California doesn't stay in California. It goes out of state to the rest of the country. The buds, not the trim. I gotcha. Trim stays, but here in California it's purchased by manufacturers. It's turned into concentrates, vape, pens, edibles, the whole range of value added manufactured cannabis goods

Speaker 1: because of the vast amount of it that there is and, and, and it's a relatively low value. It's, it's at a, at a very low price. Well, when we go to a fully regulated supply chain, it will no longer be possible for those manufacturers to source from a, from that source anymore. Instead they will only be able to source from licensed cannabis growers. Right? Isn't that already supposed to be happening? It's already supposed to be happening. Okay. The degree to which it is or is not, you know, nobody really knows because like any grower right now who's got a state license, there's nothing stopping them from acting as a broker for growers who don't have licenses except, you know, their conscience. Right? Understood. Um, uh, so we, we don't know what's going on right now, but we do know that after July, for sure the available pool of growers for manufacturers to source from is going to be something like one 10th or one slash 20th the size that it is today, which is going to spike prices all the way up.

Speaker 1: Exactly. Okay. So my biggest fear in the wake of one, one is prices. The tax burden right now is at about 40 percent and we have not seen yet the impact of the cultivation taxes, uh, hitting on, on the supply chain. That will become more evident over the course of the next few months. And as we come closer and closer to a fully regulated supply chain in that source of supply starts drying up, you're going to start seeing underlying price increases. My fear is that between the tax rate and the price increases that, that a very sizeable chunk of consumers is driven out of the licensed marketplace and into the unlicensed marketplace. So with your relationship with Oakland, it least Oakland. Let's just take that as an example. That municipality, um, are folks aware of this oncoming a problem and I'm open minded to, uh, adjusting the tax rate accordingly. Well, I think there's, you know, there are a lot of different officials throughout the state who have different perspectives on, on cannabis. Sure. That's why I ask about Oakland specifically. You know what I mean? Let's not talk about La. Let's not even talk about San Francisco or even Berkeley.

Speaker 1: Well, you know, Oakland is a very progressive city and in some ways, and in some ways it can be a city that's difficult to get things done in. And um, you know, one of the very progressive things that the, that the city did was pass a measure some years ago, uh, that, uh, was the first tax cannabis tax in the country. It was a five percent tax rate on medical cannabis. And at that time, it anticipated a 10 percent tax rate on adult use cannabis, which seemed reasonable in the context of 2010 or so. Sure. Well, um, uh, now, uh, the city of Oakland has a 10 percent tax rate on all cannabis businesses, including distributors and manufacturers. By comparison, the city of Santa Rosa has a zero percent tax rate on cannabis manufacturers. The city of West Sacramento has a two point five percent tax rate on distributors as a result of many of the cannabis businesses that had hoped to locate in Oakland have instead gone to other cities.

Speaker 1: So we're trying to work with the council to get the local tax rate down so you can be competitive with other jurisdictions. I think it's going to be a process. Uh, one of the ways that cannabis reform was sold to local and state officials was that it was going to be a very robust source of revenue certainly. And, uh, and uh, I think that they've overestimated how robust a source of revenue it really can be. I think that in fact, these tax rates are going to result in a overall lower rate of tax collection because of the outflow to the illicit market interested. If taxes were set at a lower rate, overall take would be considerably higher. And I think that that rates should be no greater than about 20 to 25 percent in total. In total, when, when, when the cost of licensed cannabis becomes more than about 30 percent higher than the cost of unlicensed cannabis.

Speaker 1: Everybody who knows where to buy weed, who has a cell and a car is going to start an unlicensed delivery service and start undercutting the licensed suppliers. And this is happening already and it will happen in increasing amounts. And you know, I guarantee you that after one, one, the unlicensed delivery services saw a upsurge in their business, a significant upsurge in their business. And just follow that through for me, be just simply because of price. Sure. So I have medical cannabis patients who are coming into harbor side who are now being, who are now being paid, asked to pay a total tax burden of 40 percent. Which w, what was it on December 31st it was a total of 15 percent tax burden, five percent from the city and 10 percent sales tax, which applies to everything in California including medical cannabis. Sure. So yeah, so now it is now at an almost 40 percent.

Speaker 1: Right? So it. So it is a 25 percent plus price increase from the point of view of medical cannabis patients. I have veterans who are unable to work, who are suffering from PTSD. The va doesn't pay for their cannabis. I have parents who need to buy cannabis medicines for their children. Neither parent can work because the child is so severely disabled, they don't have the money to pay more money for their cannabis. They're already making hard choices to afford the medicine. I've got seniors on social security. These are folks who need cannabis and they can't afford to pay the extra price. Okay, so where are they going to go? They're going to go where they need to. And and to a person like that though, the, you mentioned a few different people. A product assortment is not going to matter as much and testing unfortunately is going to have to take a backseat if I, you know, if every dollar matters.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, this, this is, this is, you know, one of the real problems, right, is that some of the people who most need the consumer protections that are afforded by illegal market place are going to be the people who are most challenged and meeting the higher prices of that legal market. Uh, and you know, you would, you would hope that there would be, there would be some significant tax discount for medical cannabis patients. In fact, they, they, because of the way the tax laws are structured, even with a state medical cannabis card, they only get about a seven percent off of the total tax burden. Um, and in order to get that seven percent off, they have to get a doctor's recommendation which costs about 100 bucks. And then they need to get a state medical cannabis charge, which cost 150 bucks in about a half a day and a hassle to go through. So unless you're consuming a vast amount of cannabis, it doesn't even really make sense as a medical cannabis patient and an ad to get the tax discount so you're paying the same tax burden as everybody else. And that's just a wrong. Doesn't sound right. That's wrong. Yeah.

Speaker 1: What else are you thinking about and doing that I might not know about that we should at least have on record? Well, I'm, uh, let's talk about the coming out green campaign. Uh, now that we have begun to deal with the laws. It's time for us to take this thing to the next level and what the history of cannabis teaches us is that stigmatization preceded prohibition by some decades.

Speaker 1: Oh, of course it did, right? Was a campaign of propaganda before cannabis is going be. We got the word marijuana. Okay. Yeah. And, and, and that stigma is going to post date prohibition. Okay. Page. So we have, uh, uh, now, uh, a situation where it, cannabis is theoretically legal, right? But we still have a lot of officials. We still have a lot of bosses. We still have a lot of teachers. We still have a lot of relatives, a lot of people who have this very negative idea of what cannabis is and who cannabis consumers are a locked in, in, into their minds, right? And stigma lives in these like it's not clear like the law is clear. It is or it isn't. Right? But stigmas, the slippery thing. It lives in these like long lingering lux and awkward silences in conversations, you know,

Speaker 1: we need, we need to to end that right. It just continues the punishment of prohibition further and further and further and it, and it makes it more challenging for people who really need access to cannabis to get to it. Okay. Uh, and so, uh, what's the best way to break stigma? Well, we need to take a leaf from the gay liberation movement. Once the Gay Liberation Movement started dealing with getting rid of the enforcement of sodomy laws and people could actually admit who they were, that's when the coming out movement happened. And it happened on the theory that if straight people knew who gay people really were and saw the way that they really lived in, interacted with each other, it would no longer seem threatening to them. Well, we know the same thing as through about cannabis, right? When people actually see and experience the way that the plant is actually used it, it becomes a non argument.

Speaker 1: It's not a big deal anymore. Right? Um, and, and, and, and the only way that happens is if, is, if we come out, right? So it, just imagine if it for the last five presidents of the United States where cannabis consumers, I'm a brilliant people. I'm a, I'm a Richard Branson, a Peter Lewis, George Soros, a Carl Sagan, all cannabis consumers. If every single responsible, respectable cannabis consumer came out, yes, this thing would've been over some time ago. So here's what I'm calling on people to do, okay? If you live in a legal cannabis state and you can't be arrested for cannabis anymore, one a week come out to somebody in your life that doesn't know about the role that cannabis plays in it yet, right? One a week, you don't have to do one a day, you don't have to do one an hour, but you got to knock them down and one a week.

Speaker 1: So if it's your grandmother, right? If it's your boss, if it's your therapist, if it's your lawyer, right? If it's your kid, it's time to come out and teach the world what responsible cannabis use looks like. And what I like about this as the book ending of out of the shadows and into the light for the businesses now out of the shadows, into the light for the people essentially, right? That's right. It's, it is time. This is our moment across the world, uh, for folks that aren't in touch with it. This is not something that's just happening in California or just something that's happening in United States of America. It is happening in Canada. It's happening in Mexico, it's happening in South America, it's happening in Europe, it's happening in Africa. And yes, it will start happening in Asia too. So we are everywhere and, and, and where reform has not yet come. It is coming. Yeah.

Speaker 1: It's always good to talk to you. It, uh, it brings us to the three final questions for returning guests, Steve. So I'll tell you what they are and then I'll ask you them in order. What would you change about yourself, if anything might something that you're already working on? What would you change about anything else if you could? And on the soundtrack of your life. One track, one song that's got to be on there. We'll get to that. That's always the last question. Uh, so first things first, what would you change about yourself, if anything might be something you're already working on? Yeah, I'm, I'm really working on cultivating equanimity, a really passionate person. I tend to respond, uh, a very passionately to a negative and positive, uh, impulses and I, I don't, I don't mind, you know, being joyous, but there's times that I lose it when I'm exposed to negative stimuli.

Speaker 1: Right? So I'm really learning how to take the frustrations and a bad news and a little bit more even stride. I'm being an activist and somebody who's spent a 40 years fighting, uh, sometimes leaves you with a little bit of a, of residue. So I'm working on that, not allowing your mellow to quite be so harsh. Yeah, exactly. Fair enough. All right. What would you change about anything else if you could? And now bend the space time continuum. You're omniscient, you. There's no rules here. What would you change about anything else if you could? Oh, well, it's just, you know, what I've, what I've always wanted, I just, uh, I want there to be a, a honored place for this plant in the world. A place that is where the of the amazing plant that it is. You can read more about that in the cannabis manifesto, I think.

Speaker 1: Right? Yeah. Alright. So we know that your song is St Stephen. Okay, that's true. It still is. So, uh, so, so maybe if you wanted to do maybe another song for maybe my soundtrack or is there another song that we could add to the soundtrack of Steve Deangelo's life? Right. Well, wild and free is a, is a really resonates for me. So I know it's kind of old. It's not really current, but about what? Ziggy. Who's the who was a, that was ziggy Marley and I'm a and a and woody Harrelson. Woody housing them. I'd have to look this up. This is wild and free. I missed this. This is not on my radar. Oh No. Well, when you, when you hear it, you will understand exactly why I like it. And then there's another, uh, ziggy Marley song that I like a lot which is love as my religion.

Speaker 1: Uh, and um, uh, so, uh, those are, those are songs that resonate for him. Man. There's so many songs that resonate for me and my life. That's a really likely of all the questions that you've ever asked me asking me to pick one song that's like the song of my life is absolutely without a doubt the toughest of them all. I mean, if I can do that for Steve de Angelo, that's the least I can do. Right? Steve, always good talking to you. Thank you so much. Likewise. Thank you sir. And there you have Steve de Angelo. My community supports what I'm doing, our voter support, what we're doing, our elected officials, what we're

Speaker 2: doing, our business and investor community supports what we're doing. Our University and research community supports what we're doing. I will stand up to anybody with the support of my community. Strong words from Steve de Angelo. Thanks to him, thanks to you. Stay tuned.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.