Ep.346: Brian Vicente

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.346: Brian Vicente

Ep.346: Brian Vicente

Brian Vicente returns to provide updated perspective on the state of the cannabis economy in the state of Colorado. We also preview how the upcoming election might affect legal cannabis across the United States.


Seth Adler: Brian Vicente with Vicente Sederberg. I feel like the beard, it's kept in a way ... It's impressive. It's been there, but I feel like it's a new statement.

Brian Vicente: It's become a little more ... It's the winter beard now. It's become a little more ZZ Top style or something.

Seth Adler: It's towards ZZ Top, I will give you that. I will give you that. It's a tip of the cap, if you will.

Brian Vicente: One bearded guy to another, I appreciate that.

Seth Adler: I'm sure. I always forget, actually. And of course my favorite fact about the beards in ZZ Top is that the only guy without a beard, Frank Beard, the drummer, his last name is Beard.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, it's kind of weird.

Seth Adler: It's a wacky thing. I'm with the old catalog for ZZ Top, before they got to MTV.

Brian Vicente: Respect.

Seth Adler: You know what I'm saying?

Brian Vicente: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's some oldies but goodies in there. I'm actually reading ... Stephen King wrote this massive set of books about ... It's like his first sci-fi series called The Dark Tower, they made it into a movie. And a lot of old school ZZ Top references in there.

Seth Adler: There you go.

Brian Vicente: It's fascinating.

Seth Adler: Tres Amigos.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, there you go.

Seth Adler: At least one of their albums. Okay, so now you and me ... I'm sorry, you and I are sitting in a new office. Now it's not so new for you, but it's new for me.

Brian Vicente: Correct, yeah.

Seth Adler: Because we've got the old mansion, which is what brought us legal cannabis here in-

Brian Vicente: There you go, marijuana mansion.

Seth Adler: That's right. So Amendment 64 passed in that mansion so to speak. And so where are we now? This building is different.

Brian Vicente: This is the new global headquarters for Vicente Sederberg. And it's got a great history in that this, literally this office, was the original office of the Colorado Marijuana Enforcement Division. So that was the first state regulatory agency in the history of the world issue licenses for marijuana and medical marijuana businesses. And we kicked them out and we moved into their space.

Seth Adler: I love that.

Brian Vicente: So every single person ever licensed for a marijuana business in Colorado came through these doors. So all our clients know where to find us. But then it also was a bunch of cops in here, so some of them had bad experiences, got arrested. We actually got the place swept for bugs before we moved in.

Seth Adler: Oh, right, sure.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, it came up clean. And we broke down a lot of the ... We had to burn some sage and kind of get some of the negative energy out and burn some things. Put up a bunch of windows. Yeah, it's really nice now.

Seth Adler: Yeah. Well congratulations again. I know it's not like brand new.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, appreciate it.

Seth Adler: All right, so that's been the changes. There have been some other changes that have occurred, right? So with all do respect to Colorado, there's other cannabis markets, one of them is California. Because I love to kind of just brush up against the friendly competition that Colorado and California have as far as legal cannabis is concerned. So January 1st, here we go. Legal cannabis in California.

Brian Vicente: It's on. It is on.

Seth Adler: And then January 4th, that Thursday, Jeff Sessions, the Attorney General, rescinds the Cole and Ogden memos, and I wondered just Brian the activist first, what was your ... I would imagine that's how you viscerally reacted. How did you react? What were your initial thoughts and feelings?

Brian Vicente: Sure. I mean, we knew Jeff Sessions was a bad guy. I mean, he has a unbelievable record, dating back I think like 90 years, like he's really old, on how much he hates marijuana. So we figured something was going to happen at some point. At the same time, we'd been lulled into a little bit of a sense of security. I mean, he's constantly under attack, whether it's Russia or whatever, he appears to be on the edge of losing his job at any moment. So for him to come in and sort of assault the previous memos, with sort of just a swipe of his pen, was certainly a surprise. I mean, I did I think 15 media interviews that day from Fox to CNN. I mean, it was enormous news, and then we had dozens and dozens and dozens of clients getting in touch and saying, "Oh man, the walls are falling down, what should we do?"

Seth Adler: Let's parse that, right? You were surprised. I've spoken to others that weren't. I feel like you were surprised because it could ... Why were you surprised.

Brian Vicente: Well, I just thought-

Seth Adler: Because you're a guy, in other words, when I normally, when I speak to folks that are 10 years in or more, it's like, "Yeah, more of the same." I'm not quite getting that from you, and I wonder why.

Brian Vicente: Well, I felt like the ... I mean, what he did was actually remove all, essentially five federal memos. So it was the Cole memo, and a number of other memos, [inaudible 00:06:43], that were really the underpinning for the policy that had been adopted, and really accepted and endorsed by our country. I mean, legalization and medicalization, the polling has just gone through the roof on those. And so I'd felt like we'd perhaps reached that point where the federal government might not tinker as much, or start to move things more positively. Jeff Sessions, and I believe it was a rogue move on his part. Don't think Trump orchestrated it or anything.

Seth Adler: I don't know. I can't know that, so I won't speak to it, but what I will say as far as being surprised is any time you had Jeff Sessions under oath, he'd say, "I can see the Cole memos as policy." And I think he might have even said good policy a couple times.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, there'd been some indicators.

Seth Adler: Off the record, he was meeting with prohibitionists and things like that, so there were kind of two sides to that coin, he was speaking out of both sides of his mouth, and he did so in policy as well, because this is against personal liberty, this is against state's rights, this is against capitalism.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, it's a bizarre ... He's just a drug war dinosaur.

Seth Adler: Yeah, drug war dinosaur.

Brian Vicente: Yeah.

Seth Adler: I feel like some of our musician's friends can pick up on that. It rhymes already.

Brian Vicente: We've got to buy that URL now.

Seth Adler: Absolutely. At least make the T-shirt, drug war dinosaur. All right, so that was your visceral reaction. Kind of surprised and it's because your heart literally is legalization, so it's like, "Ah, come on man."

Brian Vicente: Yeah, it's what I live and breathe, and I have 50 staff working at our firm now, and they rely upon us having laws that protect our clients, or at least having clients that don't jump ship or get arrested. And so it was a shakeup moment. But honestly, in some ways, it sort of reminded me why I love this movement and why I love my law firm, my staff so much, is because we met that morning at like ... It came out at 9:00, we met at like 9:15. Created talking points. We started briefing what it meant from a legal standpoint in terms of-

Seth Adler: And what did it mean? Take us inside that kind of board room meeting. What were you talking, what were you sharing?

Brian Vicente: So the immediate thing was talking points. So we needed internal and external talking points. So I knew that myself and Mason Tvert, who works with us, would be getting deluged with media request. And we want to be the guys out front speaking what we believe to be good policy, having good talking points. So we work-shopped those, talk about, "What does this really mean?" It's just removal of policy, it's not a change of law. Here's all the reasons why legalization works. Let's try not to spook everyone and get some factual information out there.

Brian Vicente: And then internally, again, I have 50 staff, we have offices in LA, we're all over the place now. And we needed to let them know what this meant. Because they're going to get calls too, not from the media, but from clients, or they just want to know from family, they want to be on point. So we kind of went in a little more detail, "Here's some basic bullet points people as you about. Here's the factual situation. Here's our spin or our take on it." And then we wanted to be the first to kind of get an email out to ... We actually have a 15 thousand person email list, we've really worked hard to build that. We wanted to get it out and say, "Listen ..." Where we said at Sederberg, "Here's our take on this. If you can get involved now, call your senator, call your congress ..." You know like, "Here are some talking points." And people really appreciated that.

Seth Adler: Yeah, absolutely. And that is part and parcel of what did happen that day and the rest of that week and into the next week of just such a vociferous response, no matter the state, but specifically in Colorado, from the State Attorney General, from even the federal attorney here, from all elected officials, from regulators saying, "This is the law of this state." And California said it too, and others did as well. Even Cory Gardner, who needs to be re-elected by the way, I noticed, was yelling and screaming from the Senate floor.

Brian Vicente: Prominent Republican and conservative.

Seth Adler: Prominent Republican. And so that had to kind of help, I would imagine.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, that's sort of, when you step back, I've been doing this for about 15 years, and when you step back and look at these sort of pivot moments, you may not realize the significance that day or that week, but I believe that Jeff Sessions action has propelled us closer to legalization in our country, and that the backlash we saw that you just referenced to his sort of single-handedly removing all this underpinning guidance, which was very thoughtful guidance-

Seth Adler: Yeah, they took time. I spoke to Jim Cole the next day. He's like, "We did work on that."

Brian Vicente: It just, there is very, very few voices in favor of what he did. And many, many loud, bipartisan groups coming out and saying, "This is a bad idea."

Seth Adler: What the other thing that Jim Cole said was after, "We did think about it, and every word is there for a reason." He did say, "When we wrote those, and when we put that together, the better option would have been, even at the time, for the legislature to act." And so if you feel that this helped kind of move us closer, we mentioned Cory Gardner, what other Republican senator, I know there are a bunch of House guys, certainly. There are a bunch of congressmen, and I feel like that's friendlier territory almost. But to actually get something passed by the Senate in 2018, no way, right?

Brian Vicente: Yeah, it's not going to happen, at least we're not going to see legalization this year. But this is a long game. And the whole plan of our strategy of people that have been doing this for a long time, like myself, is you just got to create pressure. And we legalized marijuana in Denver, that creates pressure in Denver, it creates pressure on the state. Ultimately, when the state does something, that creates pressure on the federal government. And so we had many other congress people coming on board and supporting bills, so not winning majority numbers, but folks coming out of the closet. And when they're not facing political negative ramifications for that, we're going to see them join and more marijuana bills. Their other colleagues will ... Congress is a little more of a long game, three to five years, but the pressure is mounting.

Seth Adler: McClintock-Polis. McClintock-Polis, 280E, what are the chances of those two happening in 2018, Brian Vicente?

Brian Vicente: Yeah, that's a tough one. I mean, 50/50 at best for both of them.

Seth Adler: Oh, that's better. Hey, that's better than the past, right?

Brian Vicente: Yeah, that's much better than the past. And again, they're picking up all sorts of support. So we actually, here where we're sitting, we had about 300 people in our office supporting Polis, he's running for governor now, just a couple weeks ago, so there's a lot of people backing these guys that are trying to push this positive movement.

Seth Adler: Okay. But only 50/50 though, even though that is much, much, much better. Because the appetite's not there as far as the upper house, so to speak, right?

Brian Vicente: Yeah. And Republicans are still hesitant, but they're getting on board in bigger numbers. But in terms of Senate, you're going to need to start winning some of those guys over.

Seth Adler: Okay. So then maybe we talk about a different part of the plant. Bring a couple more of those guys in. Because Leader McConnell, and I only call him that because that's what he calls himself. He helped with the, if not single-handedly, put the farm bill together that included some verbiage in there friendly to hemp, right?

Brian Vicente: Absolutely.

Seth Adler: So here we are, in Colorado, and I've been doing some research on hemp, and we're doubling each year as far as production. And we're getting somewhere.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, absolutely.

Seth Adler: We need a decorticator as I understand it. And it does though feel like cannabis, the other part, .3 and above, in maybe 10 years ago it feels like still. It feels like a very nation industry, the hemp industry, and especially fiber, the fiber part. If you take out CBD, definitely. What are your thoughts about where we are knowing that you were back in the day, right at the beginning of the cannabis .3 and above, where are we with hemp? Give us a kind of a state of the industry as you understand it.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, so hemp is one of those things, it's really surpassed my wildest dreams. When we legalized marijuana in Colorado and became the first place to do so in 2012, I single-handedly wrote the part that legalized hemp, not for any good reason, but we were sitting around for six months writing the marijuana language, and we were all marijuana policy experts, myself, Steve Fox, Graham Boyd, all these smart folks. And finally, we're like weeks from submission, and someone's like, "What are we going to do on hemp?" No one had any ideas. We just like, "Well, we should legalize it." It wasn't what we spent our careers researching. So I just went home and wrote the most simple passage possible. It was basically like, "Hemp shall be viewed as such. Defined as such and will be regulated at the Department of Agriculture."

Brian Vicente: And that essentially launched a revolution in way, because when Colorado moved forward with that, some other states had had sort of minor research programs, but it set this template for this model that has been ... A economic model that's been sort of copied around the country to some extent, and improved upon in some ways, so it's been amazing. And I got to say, at our law firm, for years and years and years, we received 90% of our phone calls, or 95% were about marijuana. Now it's about 50/50 of 50% being about hemp CBD.

Seth Adler: Good. Good.

Brian Vicente: And people that want to start businesses and what have you. And you can look around the country. Amazon has a policy that allows CBD products to be sold. It's public. Kroger, the grocery store brand, selling CBD products publicly. I mean, it's pretty amazing. So it's helping people. At the same time, the laws are kind of obscure around it. So if you're thinking about starting a CBD company. I mean, there's no enforcement really in this space, only minor enforcement. We saw some stuff in Indiana with cops getting angry about ... You just want to research before you start shipping CBD hemp around.

Seth Adler: So certainly, without question, you still want to be compliant in every single way.

Brian Vicente: Exactly.

Seth Adler: And your friend Bob Hoban is working on making sure that the federal law states what it needs to state, meaning the word marijuana wraps itself around CBD currently as far as federal law is concerned, which the hemp hill doesn't agree with, and so we need to work that out right?

Brian Vicente: Yep, through the court system. Yeah, yeah, no I salute that work, absolutely.

Seth Adler: Yeah. So that's CBD though, right? So we're still kind of at the top of the plant. Now let's go down, let's get to the fiber. I'm all about this because now this is the Jack Herer, hemp will save the world thing. This is the T-shirts and the socks. This is the construction material.

Brian Vicente: Hemp-crete.

Seth Adler: Yeah. So we need a decorticator. There's only one in North Carolina. There's maybe another one in Kentucky. Maybe there's another one in Nebraska, but they took a step back as far as hemp is concerned.

Brian Vicente: I think that's right, yeah.

Seth Adler: We're going to have to leave them where they are. We can't let North Carolina get out front, right? I'm looking at you as a Coloradoan, what I'm saying is as far as the people here in Colorado, we have to be first again.

Brian Vicente: We've had a history of leading on things related to he marijuana plant.

Seth Adler: So how do we get a decorticator going? Who do we got to call?

Brian Vicente: Maybe North Carolina. It's just sort of fascinating. But I think the hemp industry, the fiber industry, I think it's certainly moving forward. It's certainly growing by leaps and bounds. It's not growing nearly as fast as CBD hemp, the CBD piece, nor is the marijuana side.

Seth Adler: But isn't that ... In other words, once we get through with legal wellness .3 and above cannabis, once we get through with CBD still part of the flower and still part of wellness, and then you look at the products that can come from fiber, doesn't that just, the general economy of that far surpass anything that we could do in cannabis? I'm talking about the money. Isn't the money bigger in fiber? Or the potential money? If you're talking about anything that can be built with plastic, anything that can be made with paper, anything that can be made with cotton?

Brian Vicente: I appreciate your enthusiasm for this, Jack Herer.

Seth Adler: Thank you.

Brian Vicente: By the way, that book was incredibly influential on my life.

Seth Adler: The Emperor Wears No Clothes, yeah.

Brian Vicente: But when you compare that to the pharmaceutical market. I mean, look at what we're up ... Marijuana, medical marijuana like replacing pharmaceuticals, alcohol, marijuana replacing alcohol in some ways. I am not convinced that the future of money making in this plant is in fiber, I'm not.

Seth Adler: Really?

Brian Vicente: No. I mean there's something.

Seth Adler: I thought I had you there.

Brian Vicente: You made a great case. There's something to be said for it, absolutely. I mean, I salute people going into it, at least the immediate opportunities are-

Seth Adler: No, and I'm not saying immediate.

Brian Vicente: We're talking long-term.

Seth Adler: I'm saying long-term. Like 50 years down the line when we look back.

Brian Vicente: Respect. Respect. Yeah, this miracle plant.

Seth Adler: Okay, so you do see that, it's just you're all about today and tomorrow?

Brian Vicente: I do. I do. Well, yeah, we have sick people to serve today. We got people that want to use recreationally in California. We got to serve those markets now.

Seth Adler: And it's still not solved. And it's still not solved is the point.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, exactly. So there is a lot of fine-tuning to be done on those laws still.

Seth Adler: That's fair. There's a lot of work to be done. What about then, if we stay in that arena, I guess I'll have to bring my decorticator sale down the line to someone else, because that's where you process the fiber is you need one of those things. All right, so getting back to the issue at hand, you talked about Steve Fox, you talked about Mason Tvert, you talked about Brian Vicente, although you didn't do so in the third person, which Seth Adler appreciates.

Brian Vicente: [crosstalk 00:20:58]

Seth Adler: Yeah, exactly. So is it feasible for that group of people, the original activists, and Betty Aldworth, and names go on and on, to start focusing then on de-scheduling? So if we're not going to repeal and replace ... By the way, repeal and replace the Controlled Substances Act is something that I've termed. I've coined the term.

Brian Vicente: I like that.

Seth Adler: Yeah, repeal and replace the Controlled Substances Act, you know what you replace it with, right?

Brian Vicente: You put it all under ATF? Or what do you do?

Seth Adler: No, no, no, no, no. Repeal the Controlled Substances Act, replace with nothing.

Brian Vicente: Nothing? Just replace it with some blank space.

Seth Adler: You don't have to replace it with anything. Yeah, this is ridiculous.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, I'm with you.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Brian Vicente: You got my vote.

Seth Adler: But if we're not going to do that, and even if 280E maybe doesn't happen this year, and we don't get the McClintock-Polis amendment, which protect adult use just like Rohrabacher–Blumenauer protects medical.

Brian Vicente: Protects medical.

Seth Adler: Exactly. Can we then focus on de-scheduling as instead of saying, "Michigan," and Michigan's great and we all have to support it and that's fantastic. And Missouri with medical, okay great. Sure. Keep going. But as a voice, as one voice say, "Okay, then let's just look at de-scheduling?"

Brian Vicente: Yeah. I think de-scheduling absolutely is a focus. I believe it should be the focus at the federal level.

Seth Adler: You do?

Brian Vicente: I agree with you. I mean, I think a lot of the strategy, and we're involved in some of these discussions, and we hire lobbyists in DC, and Steve Fox is there and he works for us.

Seth Adler: Sure. Thank goodness.

Brian Vicente: Oh, thank goodness, yeah. Fighting the fight. A lot of ... People are trying to figure out what's palatable. "Oh, 280E, that's a tax tweak. That seems palatable." Totally agree by the way, we should do it. Banking, let's solve that. And whereas I'm a little more of like let's shoot the moon type guy, and just call it what it is. Let's throw more resources behind de-scheduling, or maybe ... I prefer de-scheduling, but perhaps re-scheduling way down the line.

Seth Adler: Wait a second, let's just stop there. Let's take this tangent. Of course you support de-scheduling as opposed to re-scheduling to two. Don't you think though, you're a words person, right? Don't you think that introducing re-scheduling as an option means schedule two to anybody that hears you, no matter what you say? In other words, just say de-scheduling. Let's not confuse this issues.

Brian Vicente: Yeah. Well, I hear you. I'm just saying schedule three ... I just think there'd be a lot of medical opportunities that would open the least if you move out of schedule one.

Seth Adler: I got you.

Brian Vicente: But to me, de-scheduling and then removing marijuana from Controlled Substances Act and probably putting all the regulatory structure into the ATF is what makes sense to me. So I do think it should be more focused. Having said that, so much of my career, so much of the progress we've made on marijuana has been through state and local action. And so that's why you referenced Michigan. We're very involved in Michigan right now. I was just on the phone with the Missouri campaign last week. We need to support those state actions, again, to create that bottom-up pressure on DC.

Seth Adler: Okay. Fine as far as de-scheduling. I'm glad at least you agree, but then we will talk about Michigan and Missouri. So Michigan first. Where are we? They've been working on this thing for a long time now, right?

Brian Vicente: Yeah. Michigan is a fascinating opportunity because it's sort of looked over. It's like people are very interested in California, "What's happening in New York?" And they're looking over Michigan, which I think is a real mistake. I mean one, Michigan has about 10 million people. But what people don't know is there's over 200 thousand licensed medical marijuana patients in that state. That is an astounding number.

Seth Adler: Already, folks. Already.

Brian Vicente: Colorado at it's peak had like 130 thousand. And we're like viewed as this mecca of marijuana. So it's already got a mega-marijuana economy, and I've been up there a couple times, recently. They are moving forward with licensing, their first ever state marijuana businesses, medical marijuana businesses. The regulatory authority is like gung ho. They want to bring in money in Detroit. They want to bring in money. And then they are going to legalize this November with your help.

Seth Adler: Yeah, of course.

Brian Vicente: But the polling is fantastic on that, we just need to push it over the end line.

Seth Adler: What's the website that we're going to right now?

Brian Vicente: It's RegulateMI.com.

Seth Adler: All right, good, fantastic.

Brian Vicente: Yeah. And so we're going to be doing a fundraiser for them here in our office actually in a couple months. And we just got to ... We all got to support our friends in this fight.

Seth Adler: Absolutely. All right, so there we go with Michigan. Let's talk about the deep blue state of Missouri.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, what a strange place Missouri is. It's the home of Charlie Parker, so it's got that going on on the jazz side.

Seth Adler: It's a wonderful ... I mean, this is a good thing to have.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, you got that jazz roots.

Seth Adler: Right? It is also the Show Me State.

Brian Vicente: It is the Show me ... Whatever that means. So it's got the cool musical roots and what not. It's a ... I mean, there's about 7 million people there, which people, again, overlook some of these states. Like, "Missouri, it's just a whatever, flyover." Like, there's 7 million people there.

Seth Adler: Whatever, yeah.

Brian Vicente: And at the end of the day, they've been trying to medicalize there for years, and there's some wonderful advocates on the ground. Dan Viets, Amber Langston, these folks that have been at it forever. And this year I think they're actually going to do it. But can we cuss on your show or is this like a ...

Seth Adler: Yeah, sure. Go ahead.

Brian Vicente: It's a shit show.

Seth Adler: Okay, that's not even that bad.

Brian Vicente: They say that on network TV now.

Seth Adler: I've heard much worse.

Brian Vicente: They've been trying to qualify a measure for the ballot. They're 100 thousand signatures short or something. And then there's competing measures. It's one of those states where the people are in-fighting and they can't get a measure on the ballot. So I do believe that they probably will end up with two medical marijuana measures on the ballot and the one that gets the most votes will invalidate the other one. So the Show Me Cannabis folks are, again, Dan Viets and others. I've just know forever, I've read their language, I trust the language.

Seth Adler: So there have been two ... With two on the ballot, I've heard both outcomes, which is they don't hurt each other, or they absolutely do. So in this case, what are we saying? I want to make sure that I understand it.

Brian Vicente: You know, I wish I ... I mean, it's complicated, right?

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Brian Vicente: Now, they haven't qualified. Neither have qualified yet. One of them's run by a rich guy who's funding it himself, so I believe that will get on.

Seth Adler: Right. That's how that happens, by the way.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, the Show Me Cannabis folks I believe will get on too. We're kind of throwing our weight behind that because it's just more friendly for patients. It's more free market. And it's not taxed nearly as heavily. The other one, written by the rich guy, has like a massive tax on medical marijuana, and that just rubs me the wrong way. Like you should tax medicine.

Seth Adler: What's the justification?

Brian Vicente: Justification is using that money to fund research, which I support, but not on the backs of patients.

Seth Adler: Yeah, no.

Brian Vicente: Take it from recreational, take it from licensing fees.

Seth Adler: Absolutely. Oh, but because we're not at adult use yet, because it's marijuana.

Brian Vicente: Yeah.

Seth Adler: Right, okay. Fair enough.

Brian Vicente: So at the end of the day, they're both trying to get on. I think they probably both will be on. So then the strategic question for the campaign is do you run a yes no campaign? Yes on us, no on them. Do you just run a yes on us campaign? What do you do? And can the average voter differentiate between the two medical marijuana measures? Probably not. I mean, it's a strange situation to be in. And you just wish they'd unite the tribes.

Seth Adler: So just based on what you're saying, I'm thinking yes yes makes the most sense.

Brian Vicente: To me, yeah. We'll see if they both make it on the ballot. But a yes, yes is probably where it lands.

Seth Adler: All right, so we will continue to have that conversation, because there is more to be done there, meaning Michigan's easy, keep talking about it, let's absolutely do it. Missouri has this weird nuance, so we kind of got to figure that out. Which brings me to Utah.

Brian Vicente: Utah, yeah.

Seth Adler: Are we going to ...

Brian Vicente: I'll believe it when I see it in Utah.

Seth Adler: Well we did North Dakota.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, it's not a wonderful law, but it's a decent law.

Seth Adler: It happened.

Brian Vicente: Yeah, and the polling's there in Utah. I mean, it's obviously our neighbor to the west here. Beautiful state. But wildly conservative. The fact that we're even talking about medical marijuana in Utah I think shows how far this issue has come. In terms of them actually getting something passed, I'm just skeptical. But we'll see.

Seth Adler: Okay. Not bullish yet.

Brian Vicente: I'm not bullish on marijuana in Utah. I was pulled over in a car once, I got busted for marijuana in Utah. I did not get busted, but someone, the driver did. So ever since that experience, that was a felony for minor possession bad in '98 or something.

Seth Adler: Yeah, well you guys with your hippy dippy marijuana.

Brian Vicente: [inaudible 00:29:32] driving in from Iowa, yeah.

Seth Adler: Yeah. What's wrong with you? What were you doing in Iowa.

Brian Vicente: I was going to school in Iowa.

Seth Adler: Did we talk about this? Are you a Hawkeye? Is that what you would be in Iowa?

Brian Vicente: No. Maybe, it's Grinnell College. It's a small liberal arts school. So I was a Pioneer.

Seth Adler: Oh, sure. And look at what you've become.

Brian Vicente: A pioneer.

Seth Adler: A pioneer.

Brian Vicente: It beats a Hawkeye.

Seth Adler: It does beat a Hawkeye. It does beat a Hawkeye, and especially in Texas Hold 'Em. I don't know what that means. So I'll give you three final questions for returning guests, Brian. I'll tell you what they are, I'll ask you them in order. What would you change about yourself, if anything? Might be something you're already working on. What would you change about anything else if you could? And on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on there? Last question always the same. First things first, what would you change about yourself, if anything? Might be something you're already working on.

Brian Vicente: I am actually ... I'm trying to do some serious self-reflection in 2018. And trying to just keep it all going is my sort of take. And that sounds a little simplistic, but I feel like sometimes in life, we get sort of caught up on this or that daily battle, and when I step back and try to reflect on my life, I love my wife, I love my family, I love my job, I love my co-workers. But there are issues within all those that drive me crazy sometimes. And so just trying to [inaudible 00:30:55] that perspective like, "This is a long haul, man. And I like what I got going. I just want to keep it going." I'm not going to fight that little fight.

Seth Adler: Got it. Got it. So this is all good, and so just because of that thing that just drove me crazy right now, I'm still going to remember that the larger picture of the thing that just drove me crazy, that's the thing. That's the little thing.

Brian Vicente: That's the thing. And yeah, let's not engage on the little thing. Let it go.

Seth Adler: I love it. All right, I like that one.

Brian Vicente: Thank you.

Seth Adler: What would you change about anything else if you could? Now this, bend the space time continuum. You're all powerful. There are no rules.

Brian Vicente: Man, I'm so tempted to go Trump here.

Seth Adler: You could. I mean, if you generalize the message, right?

Brian Vicente: I'm just going to go wacky on this one for you. There's a writer named Nick Hornby who has written a number of-

Seth Adler: High Fidelity.

Brian Vicente: -High Fidelity.

Seth Adler: About A Boy.

Brian Vicente: About A Boy, a number of books about soccer.

Seth Adler: Fever Pitch.

Brian Vicente: Fever Pitch, exactly. And I love soccer and I love music, and every time I read this book, all I can think is, "I want to be his best friend and meet him." So that's what I would like to do is meet Nick Hornby. And just, I feel like we would really hit it off.

Seth Adler: All right, fair enough. I'll go with ... Then let's do this. Let's do a kind of dinner party, because I'm bringing Shakespeare and Vonnegut, and then of course Mark Twain.

Brian Vicente: There you go.

Seth Adler: Right?

Brian Vicente: There you go.

Seth Adler: And so then that's dinner I guess, right? And then should we invite Christian, or no?

Brian Vicente: Christian's in, man.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Brian Vicente: Christian's in.

Seth Adler: Let him come.

Brian Vicente: At least for the cocktails beforehand.

Seth Adler: That's it. The Sederberg to your Vicente, which I always wanted to be Vincente, as you know. But it still isn't.

Brian Vicente: Everybody wants some crazy pronunciation of it. But what are you going to do?

Seth Adler: All right, so most importantly, on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on there?

Brian Vicente: I'm going with Hendrix, Little Wing.

Seth Adler: Oh, that's just ... You know who else picked that by the way? Jim Cole.

Brian Vicente: Wow.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Brian Vicente: I got to hang out with him too. He should be at the dinner party.

Seth Adler: He's coming to the dinner. Fair enough. Brian Vicente.

Brian Vicente: There you go. See you my friend.

Seth Adler: Keep fighting the fight, man.

Brian Vicente: All right, will do. Right on.

Seth Adler: And there you have Brian Vicente continuing to think ahead of the game as far as the cannabis industry is concerned. Very much appreciate his time, very much appreciate yours. Stay tuned.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.