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Ep.362: Prof. Dedi Meiri, Technion Israel Institute of Technology

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep.362: Prof. Dedi Meiri, Technion Israel Institute of Technology

Ep.362: Prof. Dedi Meiri, Technion Israel Institute of Technology

On the actual clinical trial research being done on cannabis now, Prof. Dedi Meiri, “We are starting with para-clinical. We first screen on cell lines from tumors, many types of cannabis. We have an ability to screen a lot. We have over than 600 different types of cannabis, and every one of them have hundreds of different compounds, and we know, in my lab, to identify all of them, to purify them if we need. So, we’re starting with very wide screen.”

Transcript:

Dedi Meiri: My name is Dedi Meiri. I'm the head of the Laboratory for Cancer and Cannabinoid Research it the Technion, the Technology Institute of Israel.

Seth Adler: This is in Haifa.

Dedi Meiri: This is in Haifa.

Seth Adler: In the north.

Dedi Meiri: In the far north.

Seth Adler: Yes, yes. So, you were here at [inaudible 00:02:05], and they're going to move around some chairs, but you started the presentation by saying, "Yeah, we're cancer, but really, actually now, we're cannabis, and I need to change the name because I've got 14 people or 16 people, and 14 are on cannabis and two are on cancer."

Dedi Meiri: Yeah. I have 42 people working in my lab, which two are actually not working on cannabis, and 40 is working on cannabis.

Seth Adler: Then, this is my ears translating it incorrect, I heard 14, of course it is 40.

Dedi Meiri: 40, right.

Seth Adler: Yes. Let's just quickly go into your background in terms of cancer research so we can understand how you were informed to come to cannabis.

Dedi Meiri: My background, I have a bachelor in biology. I have a master's in biochemistry, I have a PhD in molecular plant biology, so plants and genetics of the plants. Then, I moved to Toronto where I did three and a half years' research in cancer at Princess Margaret Hospital, which is a hospital for cancer. When I came back, I got a laboratory for cancer research, which is part of the TICC, the Technion Integrated Cancer Center.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Dedi Meiri: So, actually, my lab is ... laboratories are in institute of ... in the Technion that is part of the cancer research, a group of cancer research, and that was the focus.

Seth Adler: Just to kind of crystallize that, maybe a key finding from your research in cancer before cannabis.

Dedi Meiri: So, my goal of my research in Toronto and also when I established my lab was how a cell that was usually don't have any ability to move, like skin cells, pancreatic cells, lung cells, all of these don't have any ability to move, create the ability to start to crawl, to invade, and to move to different places. That's how we're getting metastasis.

Dedi Meiri: My name is Dedi Meiri. I'm the head of the Laboratory for Cancer and Cannabinoid Research it the Technion, the Technology Institute of Israel.

Seth Adler: This is in Haifa.

Dedi Meiri: This is in Haifa.

Seth Adler: In the north.

Dedi Meiri: In the far north.

Seth Adler: Yes, yes. So, you were here at [inaudible 00:02:05], and they're going to move around some chairs, but you started the presentation by saying, "Yeah, we're cancer, but really, actually now, we're cannabis, and I need to change the name because I've got 14 people or 16 people, and 14 are on cannabis and two are on cancer."

Dedi Meiri: Yeah. I have 42 people working in my lab, which two are actually not working on cannabis, and 40 is working on cannabis.

Seth Adler: Then, this is my ears translating it incorrect, I heard 14, of course it is 40.

Dedi Meiri: 40, right.

Seth Adler: Yes. Let's just quickly go into your background in terms of cancer research so we can understand how you were informed to come to cannabis.

Dedi Meiri: My background, I have a bachelor in biology. I have a master's in biochemistry, I have a PhD in molecular plant biology, so plants and genetics of the plants. Then, I moved to Toronto where I did three and a half years' research in cancer at Princess Margaret Hospital, which is a hospital for cancer. When I came back, I got a laboratory for cancer research, which is part of the TICC, the Technion Integrated Cancer Center.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Dedi Meiri: So, actually, my lab is ... laboratories are in institute of ... in the Technion that is part of the cancer research, a group of cancer research, and that was the focus.

Seth Adler: Just to kind of crystallize that, maybe a key finding from your research in cancer before cannabis.

Dedi Meiri: So, my goal of my research in Toronto and also when I established my lab was how a cell that was usually don't have any ability to move, like skin cells, pancreatic cells, lung cells, all of these don't have any ability to move, create the ability to start to crawl, to invade, and to move to different places. That's how we're getting metastasis.

Seth Adler: Right.

Dedi Meiri: That was what I was working, and I find a protein, a specific protein, that is like the bridge that's sitting there, and there is two components of the cells of the cytoskeleton. The cells have like skeleton that need to have major changes in order to start moving, and I find a key protein that is very important to this movement.

Seth Adler: What was the name of it, just so we can name it?

Dedi Meiri: It's GEF-H1. It's the name of a moving [inaudible 00:04:40]. Don't get there.

Seth Adler: [crosstalk 00:04:42]. Right. Exactly, because I noticed-

Dedi Meiri: People say that expert its somebody that know everything about nothing.

Seth Adler: That's it.

Dedi Meiri: It's something like that.

Seth Adler: But in all seriousness, in terms of the lab, when you name things, you name them with numbers and letters, and what they are is what they are in the lab, so I understand, but-

Dedi Meiri: Yeah, yeah. So, if you want the long name, it's guanine exchange factor H1.

Seth Adler: There we go. So, now we have it. You did mention that you studied plant medicine or plant biology?

Dedi Meiri: Plant biology.

Seth Adler: Why what that an initial specification that you were interested in way back when?

Dedi Meiri: I think in biology ... People don't understand it totally, but in biology, doesn't really matter. You're working with tools to understand processes.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Dedi Meiri: The tool can be yeast. It can be bacteria. It can be a plant. It can be cells from tumors. When you cell biologists trying to understand what's actually happen in the cell, how it's move, what it doing things. When I finished my PhD, I got an offer to Toronto to come to the postdoc. Actually, the professor approach me. He looked for people that know to work with confocal microscopy, some kind of a tool, and he heard that I'm very well about this, so he approach me. He offered me to come to Toronto to do a postdoc, and I said, "Look. I'm doing plant biology. This is what I'm doing, this, this, this, and that." He was laughing, said, "What do you think? There is another biology? It's the same biology." So, basically-

Seth Adler: This is an adjective plant.

Dedi Meiri: Yeah.

Seth Adler: It doesn't matter.

Dedi Meiri: Doesn't matter.

Seth Adler: Interesting.

Dedi Meiri: The genes are genes, and we have nucleus, and we have mitochondria, and we have [inaudible 00:06:27].

Seth Adler: So, then-

Dedi Meiri: Things are very similar.

Seth Adler: Yeah, so then coming back to now, you identified this protein, and you're doing great work with cancer, then how did cannabis complicate things? When did you and the plant meet again?

Dedi Meiri: After something like half a year that I had my lab, there was a publication by a Japanese group that quote one of my work from my postdoc that showed that in breast cancer, when you're treating with cannabis, you're blocking the ability of the cells to invade, to migrate, to create metastasis. They showed that the cannabis is blocking this GEF-H1 that we talk about. This GEF-H1 [inaudible 00:07:14] this pathway. First of all, they showed that it's affecting my babies. Right?

Seth Adler: Right.

Dedi Meiri: Second, because it was plant, and I always trying to look how I'm bringing plants back to the research because this is my strength. Think about it. People doing 15 years research in cannabis, and now I'm coming back after three years. I'm not really an expert, okay? As my wife said, you can sell everything, so you sold them that you know something.

Seth Adler: Which is especially helpful from your wife, of course.

Dedi Meiri: Yeah. Exactly. I tried always to see how I'm bringing my strengths, and plant was my strengths that for sure I did five years PhD on [inaudible 00:07:57] plants. My father is in agriculture. I lived. I see things that people don't see when I look on plants.

Seth Adler: Right. They speak to you in a different way.

Dedi Meiri: Something like that.

Seth Adler: Yeah. The plant whisperer, so to speak.

Dedi Meiri: When I saw this publication, I was very happy because I thought, "Okay, this is cool." This is complete what I know. This is a lot of biochemistry. It's plant biology, and it's cancer. How can I ask something better? I'm the right guy in the right place.

Seth Adler: That's exactly it.

Dedi Meiri: Looking three years later, I wasn't wrong because, in this field of cannabis research, there is the growers and people that working on the plant. There are the physicians on the other side. There are the patients, and there is no many people that can combine and can speak with all the languages.

Seth Adler: Yes. Yes.

Dedi Meiri: This is one of my strengths here. I know how to work with ... I'm doing experiments with the growers about the plants, and the genetics, and looking for different genes in the biosynthesis, and doing how light or other materials influence. Actually, I'm sitting there, and I'm teaching them. I'm not listening. Then, I'm doing clinical trials with a physician, and I worked four years in a hospital. I know how to do it.

Seth Adler: We can talk to you about so much. I do want to dive in on the clinical trials.

Dedi Meiri: Okay.

Seth Adler: I know that you've ... I call them conditions. You've worked with many different ... Multiple sclerosis, you've worked with. Let's just take them one by one as far as the clinical trials that you've done. What would the first one that you would like to discuss be in?

Dedi Meiri: First, we need to distinguish between paraclinical to clinical trials.

Seth Adler: Fine.

Dedi Meiri: So, what we are doing on mice, on tumors, are paraclinical. This is the major of my work. This is my lab. I'm participating in around 10 different clinical trials, which usually, I'm not doing the clinical trials. I'm participating. I'm giving our knowledge about the cannabis. I'm following up. Sometimes I'm pushing it because I'm said ... I'm coming to the clinician, "These are the results. Let's do it." But then, there are clinicians and physicians that doing it.

Seth Adler: We will get to them, but we have you, so I want to talk to you about those, but let's start then with this tumor that I saw on a slide that was the size of maybe my fist and then the size of maybe a thimble.

Dedi Meiri: Yeah. We starting with paraclinical. We first screen on cell lines from tumors, many types of cannabis. We have a high [inaudible 00:10:42] screening. We have an ability to screen a lot. We have over than 600 different types of cannabis, and every one of them have hundreds of different compounds, and we know, in my lab, to identify all of them, to [inaudible 00:10:56] them, to purify them if we need. So, we start with very wide screen. We taking types of cancer, let's say breast cancer with BRCA1 mutation. It's very, very known mutation. Angelina Jolie had it.

Seth Adler: Oh, okay.

Dedi Meiri: People know anybody it.

Seth Adler: It's that well known. Even movie stars know about it.

Dedi Meiri: Yeah, exactly.

Seth Adler: [crosstalk 00:11:17]. That's how well known it is.

Dedi Meiri: Exactly. So, we taking this kind of cells, and we started to screen with many, many types of cannabis. We have over than 600 different strains we screening, and if we finding something that we think that is very specific, we see a specific effect. It will kill just this cell with this mutation, not other cells. Then, we starting to dive into it. We starting to learn how it's affect the cells, why it's killing just these and not others, and what are the compound they needed. Then, we going to mice. We create these tumors in the mice, and we starting to treat them with the cannabis, and we want to see the same effect. If we get this, then you can go really to clinical trials and to go forward.

Dedi Meiri: In my point, I want to know first from the cannabis side, what are the compounds, what are the essential materials that I need that I won't start a clinical trials, and I don't have any, it will fail. On the other hand, what in the cancer is essential in order to kill him? This mutation, this pathway need to be activated. I must say that I'm very careful. People are pushing me to do clinical trials. The physician are very excited in Israel to do it.

Seth Adler: Of course. We all are. [crosstalk 00:12:30]. The rest of everybody.

Dedi Meiri: I'm just coming to the physician. I want to do ... Oh, in this conference, from the morning, I had three physicians very known, head of the department, they approach me. "I want to do an [inaudible 00:12:44]. Let's do it. Can you come next week? Or, I will come to the lab." The physician in Israel are excited to do it. It's not difficult to get approval. I'm very careful about it.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Dedi Meiri: I think failing in clinical trials is most fearing me than other things. So, to start a clinical trial not with the right materials, not with the right patient, you will fail, and then you will have a certificate that you don't need to give this patient, and we don't want to be there.

Seth Adler: There you go. You can't have an F.

Dedi Meiri: I don't want to-

Seth Adler: We cannot have an F, a fail.

Dedi Meiri: Exactly.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Dedi Meiri: So, sometimes the fail is because it's not [inaudible 00:13:21]. It's not helping, and this is fine. I'm a scientist.

Seth Adler: Sure.

Dedi Meiri: I don't think patient need to get cannabis. I am a scientist, but I do want to do it correctly.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Dedi Meiri: If something is not helping, so this patient should get something else that's helping them. But if it's do help, and I will do it not in the right way, and it fail, then I am in a problem.

Seth Adler: So, as far as tools, as far as cannabinoids, as far as components, as far as compounds, what was the magic, if you will, that reduced that tumor that we saw on the screen?

Dedi Meiri: The specific one?

Seth Adler: Yes, why not?

Dedi Meiri: Now, I need to-

Seth Adler: What could it have been? [crosstalk 00:13:56]. What could it have been as far as reduction of tumor?

Dedi Meiri: There is two things. It's causing apoptosis. It's causing the cells to commit suicide, and it's stopping proliferation, stopping the cells to proliferate. So, it's two ways of looking at. So, if you taking ... you create a tumor in the mice, you measure the size, and then you started to treat, and then you measure it again and see that it shrink, meaning that the cells are dying, okay? The other way around is to create tumors and then to start to treat and to see that they are not growing. So, you're taking two mice. In one, you treat and other no. So, that's what you saw. One is huge and one is small. This one is not growing. You're blocking the growing. So, it's two approaches.

Seth Adler: When I see ... Obviously, I'm not a scientist, as we're learning ... CBC reduces inflammation, my mind says, "Okay, well then that might have been one of the cannabinoids that you used to reduce the tumor size."

Dedi Meiri: In that specific one, I know that it's not CBC, but I know which cannabinoids, and two of them are not known, so I don't know.

Seth Adler: I see. They have not been identified.

Dedi Meiri: No.

Seth Adler: So, we thank Raphie Mechoulam for identifying as many as he had. We're trying to identify them as we go.

Dedi Meiri: Yeah, but [crosstalk 00:15:12]. So, I don't have any clue what they are doing. That what I'm-

Seth Adler: These are one of the hundreds, as we say. Some people say hundred. Now, I heard you say 500.

Dedi Meiri: No, no, no. 500, it's total compounds. It's not just cannabinoids. Cannabinoids, we have ... I know around 140.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Dedi Meiri: Okay? You need to remember that, in the specific strain, you don't have all this variety. You have 30, 40. If I'm taking all the strains that I check until today, I saw 140.

Seth Adler: Right. Right.

Dedi Meiri: But in single one, that's not the case.

Seth Adler: Understood.

Dedi Meiri: In these 40, probably we need two or three in order to get the effect-

Seth Adler: Understood.

Dedi Meiri: ... and the effect can be many things. It can, from one hand, blocking the ability to proliferate and to create more, on the other hand, starting to killing them, and you get synergism of these two.

Seth Adler: So, if we move forward to the maybe multiple sclerosis, have you done a clinical trial or participated in a clinical trial for multiple sclerosis?

Dedi Meiri: No. I have a research on multiple sclerosis in my lab, but we are still on the mice model.

Seth Adler: Fair enough, but in the lab, could you identify those two or three cannabinoids?

Dedi Meiri: No.

Seth Adler: No.

Dedi Meiri: We're far from that.

Seth Adler: We're far from there, but we know that it is-

Dedi Meiri: Don't forget, I started to work with cannabis two and a half years. Give me time, please.

Seth Adler: Understood. Understood. But what do we know? If we can't say, "Well, it was THCA, CBC, and CBG, definitely. Check the box. Okay, great. Out the door..." If it's not that easy, what information do we know?

Dedi Meiri: On multiple sclerosis?

Seth Adler: Sure.

Dedi Meiri: I don't know enough. We started this research a few months ago, and I don't have results that are enough. I do think that it can be related to the inflammation. It can be related to our balancing the immune system. It can be related to activation of neuron, and we know there was a professor before me that gave the ... the keynote speaker that spoke about memory and how it's activate the neurons. We see it in my lab, also, the effect of the brain in Alzheimer and on memory. For sure, there is a-

Seth Adler: That was Andreas Zimmer, professor-

Dedi Meiri: Yeah, Andreas Zimmer give a great talk, and he spoke about it. So, in multiple sclerosis, it can be all of them, one of them, all together. On that specific research, I'm really, really in the diapers of the-

Seth Adler: Understood. What are you learning from the clinical trials that you are a part of? Understood that you're not leading them, but what are you learning?

Dedi Meiri: There is a huge clinical trial done by Elon Eisenberg and his students called [inaudible 00:18:03] they did on 1,500 pain patients, and this is running almost two years, and I think we have a huge amount of data because it's 1,500 patient being follow up for two years, many different types of pain, many different types of cannabis that they are taking, and we know all the cannabis, and we are following up. I think from these clinical trials, we learning a lot. We learning that vaporizing or smoking is much ... it's working much better than oil in pain.

Seth Adler: Interesting.

Dedi Meiri: It's not true for other things, but in pain, it's significant.

Seth Adler: Do you have a sense of why that might be? If we're trying to get away from smokables, maybe we shouldn't be as far as pain is concerned?

Dedi Meiri: Yeah, but vaporizing, it's not-

Seth Adler: Vaporizing, of course, but-

Dedi Meiri: Vaporizing is working as good and is even better than smoking, but the oil is not working as well.

Seth Adler: Why is that, as far as pain?

Dedi Meiri: When we taking oil, there is three things, I think, regarding pain. First, it's going through our digestive system usually. Then, you have the liver will [inaudible 00:19:22] these materials, and they will be a little bit different. We still know that there is effect, but it's different, and it might be that it's changing, and regarding pain, it's more important. Might be. Don't catch me on this word.

Seth Adler: Understood. Understood.

Dedi Meiri: [crosstalk 00:19:37] my hypothesis.

Seth Adler: Yes.

Dedi Meiri: Second, when you smoking and vaporizing, you can control better the amount that you taking. While you taking oil, you taking and waiting. Third, I think pain patient want relief now when it's hurts and not something for [inaudible 00:20:00].

Seth Adler: So, vaporizing quick.

Dedi Meiri: Quick. It's like 20 seconds and you're there, while taking oil taking more time. So, this is an important result. Another result that we saw in this trial that it's working much better on younger population than on older population.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Dedi Meiri: Again, this is not the cannabis. I think it's more social, but it's things we need to learn how to treat these patient. Again, my theory is that young patient are changing a lot of strains and combination until they reach to the point that it's really, really working.

Seth Adler: Until they find the right one.

Dedi Meiri: Yeah. The older people are ... what they are getting is, "Ah, it's okay. It's helping not so much, but I'm fine with it." Something [crosstalk 00:20:48].

Seth Adler: Younger ... Young people willing to do the research and development on themselves.

Dedi Meiri: On themselves, exactly. This is something that we learning, that even if your patient, you gave him something ... Think about the physician, the other side. He gave now a medicine, and now we need to know that in the older patient, he need to change. He need to do that until he reach to the point that it's really, really helping, and not be enough that he just sleeping better but it still hurts.

Seth Adler: Right.

Dedi Meiri: Okay? Something like that. Again, we can sit five hours on this clinical trial because it's a lot of data, and we're learning a lot. I want to say about clinical trial with the autistic kids, which was very big success and quite amazing result. We see 78% success on 32 different parameters. In general, in Israel, patient getting cannabis just as the last option.

Seth Adler: Right.

Dedi Meiri: If you have a epileptic kid, you need first to try all the other medicines-

Seth Adler: And then this is last.

Dedi Meiri: ... and just if you are resistance to all the medicine you trying. It's the same with the autistic kids. We're talking about kids that are very severe autistic kids, usually not communicate at all, not even eye contact, very violent to themselves, to the surrounding, usually hospital by force because they are very violent, usually walking with hand tied and with helmets because they can knock their head to the wall until they are feinting. So, these are kids they are getting, and they're getting mainly strains without THC, so we're not ... They are not high. We are not stoning them. It's not a sedation. They are just getting high CBD ratio, 20:1, usually, or 4:1. In these kids, we see huge improvement about anxiety, about the violence and becoming not violent at all. Again, they are not stoned. Right?

Seth Adler: Yes.

Dedi Meiri: The communication is much better. They are more relaxed. They have more time to concentrate. Part of them, we are talking about today in Israel more than 300 patient, but in this clinical trial, there was around 100, and phenomenal, like kids ... It's like this story that if I wouldn't the scientists, I would think that it's bullshit.

Seth Adler: Right there, we are seeing more and more in terms of the nervous system. We're seeing more and more in terms of the immune system. The autism ... This study, in and of itself, is the one that is surprising all of you.

Dedi Meiri: Sure.

Seth Adler: Why is it surprising to you guys in a different way than the other ... All of it's surprising. All of it's wonderful.

Dedi Meiri: I will give you two extreme results for me. The most significant results are reducing anxiety, reducing violence, but there are also very significant in more communication. So, I give you two stories, one of a mother that told me that her son, 19 years old, was hospitalized by force because he was very violent, but after two months' treatment, he didn't need to be hospitalized anymore. They sent him home because-

Seth Adler: He was fine.

Dedi Meiri: He was ... He wasn't fine. He was still [crosstalk 00:24:07], but he wasn't violent.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Dedi Meiri: This mother brought him home, and when they came home ... He's 19 years old ... she asked him, "What do you want for dinner?" For the first time, he looked at her and said, "An egg." She told me, "Dedi, you don't understand."

Seth Adler: That never happened before.

Dedi Meiri: He never spoke before, but she said me, "From the day born, I'm reading stories to him. I'm speaking with him like he's a normal child. I'm talking with him. I am asking him every day what he wants to eat. He never even looked in my eyes." He know what it is an egg. He know to say it. He know the meaning of it, and he knows what he want to eat. He just couldn't get it out.

Seth Adler: Right. Yeah.

Dedi Meiri: Think about how crazy is it. It's not now changing, reducing [inaudible 00:24:51], so the immune system is reducing. No. This child is opening something in him, which I can't explaining as a scientist. It's bigger than me. I don't know about autism too much to be an expert, but I think these kids are very sensitive and very human in general. I will tell you a funny story, but I don't know if it's funny or not.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Dedi Meiri: A guy called me last month and said that his son been ... he treat his son in the last half a year. His son is 15 years old. He treat him with cannabis, and there was improvement in anxiety, in burst of violence, and other stuff. But this week, he came to give him the oil. He's giving drops and [inaudible 00:25:40]. His son said, "I don't like this medicine."

Seth Adler: Oh, my God.

Dedi Meiri: So, he said, "What I am doing now? This is the first time that he's speaking, but what he is saying, 'I don't want the medicine.'"

Seth Adler: Yeah, exactly. So, what do you do?

Dedi Meiri: So, he said, "I don't know what to do. Take the medicine. You're speaking."

Seth Adler: Yeah, exactly.

Dedi Meiri: But think about it. Again, it's a full sentence.

Seth Adler: Yes, of course.

Dedi Meiri: It's not a word. It's not something-

Seth Adler: It's a complete thought.

Dedi Meiri: It's a complete thought. It's a complete sentence, but what I think, why I am saying that it's so amazing for me because you understand that the cognitive ability is there. He know to say the sentence. It's just didn't push it out.

Seth Adler: So, you're [crosstalk 00:26:22] both cases. It's all been there.

Dedi Meiri: It's been there, and-

Seth Adler: They just had to open it up.

Dedi Meiri: [crosstalk 00:26:26]. It's like opening [inaudible 00:26:27] doing [crosstalk 00:26:28].

Seth Adler: Interesting.

Dedi Meiri: It's holistic because it's improving the sleep of these kids. Think about the kid, 17 years old. I have four kids. Believe me. I know how it is. 17 years old, it's every night waking up five, six times screaming.

Seth Adler: Right.

Dedi Meiri: 16 years you have a chance that every night he's waking up screaming. Now, taking cannabis he's sleeping a whole night. It's changing the life of the family.

Seth Adler: Completely understood, and as far as sleep is concerned, we know anybody that as far as violence is concerned. We know about that. What about this opening the door on speech? Is that the precise part that is ... How is it that that is happening? Do you have any hypothesis?

Dedi Meiri: Adi Aran, who is physician that doing a clinical trials on autistic kids in Shaare Zedek Hospital, told me ... I think there is a logic, and again, they are the expert, not me. He told me that he think that reducing the anxiety, the busts of violence, and the kids are more relaxed, opening time for them. It's more time.

Seth Adler: Opening time.

Dedi Meiri: There is more time for them to ... Because people are saying he's starting to draw, he's starting to play on the computer all day, he's more relaxed. Adi said, "He's not ... Think about the kids that was in fear all the time, and he was ..." I don't know how ... I'm translating from Hebrew, so it's difficult for me, but anxiety bursts. Like, the pen is falling, and he's flip out, and something like that. Now, all of this gone, and he have vacancy to-

Seth Adler: To draw.

Dedi Meiri: ... to draw, to do other things, and also to-

Seth Adler: Tell me what you want to eat.

Dedi Meiri: Then, also, to speak.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Dedi Meiri: It's like he can concentrate on the other thing again. I don't know.

Seth Adler: I got you.

Dedi Meiri: [crosstalk 00:28:24]. That's might be-

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Dedi Meiri: ... an explanation. It might be very chemically that compounds binding, receptors opening gates, [inaudible 00:28:34] of calcium, whatever.

Seth Adler: This is the work that we will do, and that's the point of science. We don't have a ton of time, so I want to just shift gears completely to a point you made about extraction and how you're not concerned with which one is better, as far as CO2, as far as butane, but you ... as far as ethanol ... but you can see that what you do use changes everything.

Dedi Meiri: Sure.

Seth Adler: Can you put that a little bit more ...

Dedi Meiri: Saying changing everything, it's a little bit too-

Seth Adler: Too much.

Dedi Meiri: ... too much.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Dedi Meiri: But it's changing a lot.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Dedi Meiri: So, every different types of extraction method will change pattern of the compounds inside. Again, my point was that if we think as a medicine, the patient want every time that he's coming to buy exactly the same times. I had a migraine this morning, and I took Advil gel pill, which usually I'm not doing, but because I had to speak and then, I said, "Okay, I will take one." Okay? I want to know that when I have this kind of a migraine, I'm taking one pill of Advil gel, and it's reduce. I don't want to be in the side that once it's working, once it will not working, once I need to take three, and one I need to take a half. So, the patient will come to the pharmacy-

Seth Adler: Expectation.

Dedi Meiri: ... and he wants to buy the same thing that help him last month. My point was that, okay, learn that this strain is helping, and you need that amount, and the grower will keep growing the same, but if the extraction method is changing, you will change [inaudible 00:30:12]. It's not enough to know. You also need to know which of extraction it be done. From the grower's side, the production, factories, whatever, they need to understand that they need to do it all the time the same.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Dedi Meiri: It's the same. If you doing different quality, different you do, it will be different medicine.

Seth Adler: You can tell us in another interview that if you use different lights that everything changes. So, very quickly, I'll ask you the three final questions. I'll tell you what they are and ask you them in order, and if you would, please just give me very quick answers. What's most surprised you in cannabis? What's most surprised you in life, and on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on there? But first things first, what has most surprised you in cannabis? Is it this autism thing that we've been talking about?

Dedi Meiri: Yeah, I think so.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Dedi Meiri: First of all, I was very skeptic about cannabis in the beginning. The results with the cancer are phenomenal, and I'm totally surprised about it. I wouldn't think that cannabis really will help cancer.

Seth Adler: And it does.

Dedi Meiri: It looks very promising, and autistic kids-

Seth Adler: Just dive in on that real quick as far as the cancer, how particularly because of the identified protein in it breaking down that pathway, right?

Dedi Meiri: Cannabis is helping on cancer is doing mainly two things. One thing is there is types of cannabis that can work on types of cancer. It's not general, but there is two ways, one is blocking proliferation, blocking the cells to divide, and the other one, it's causing the cells to die. This is the way that it's-

Seth Adler: As you mentioned earlier.

Dedi Meiri: Yeah.

Seth Adler: What's most surprised you in life?

Dedi Meiri: This is a tough question. I think that that's so short.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Dedi Meiri: Because the times fly.

Seth Adler: We only have so much time.

Dedi Meiri: When I was in the army, in the Israeli Army, there was always the toilets, [inaudible 00:32:02] there. There is no ... How to translate? Don't worry. Nobody can stop time. [crosstalk 00:32:09]. It's going to end.

Seth Adler: Yeah, exactly.

Dedi Meiri: The time in the army. I'm just thinking now, fuck, nobody can stop the time. Things are running too fast.

Seth Adler: Of course.

Dedi Meiri: Now, in the last three years in the cannabis field, it's-

Seth Adler: Ridiculous.

Dedi Meiri: It's so fast. Somebody told me that, in cannabis, it's like dog lives. Every year it's like 10.

Seth Adler: Cannabis years are dog years. That's it.

Dedi Meiri: Okay? That's my feeling. Times is flying.

Seth Adler: On the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on there?

Dedi Meiri: Daddy Cool. Come on. You know this song?

Seth Adler: I don't, but I'll look it up. I very much appreciate-

Dedi Meiri: Daddy, Daddy Cool. You don't know this one? It's Boney M. I think it's Boney M. I don't know.

Seth Adler: There you have Dr. Dedi Meiri. Very much appreciate his time. Very much appreciate your time. Stay tuned.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.