fbpx

Ep. 385: Hemp Spotlight: Rick Trojan & Morris Beegle and Rick Trojan

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep. 385: Hemp Spotlight: Rick Trojan & Morris Beegle and Rick Trojan

Ep. 385: Hemp Spotlight: Rick Trojan & Morris Beegle and Rick Trojan

Rick Trojan and Morris Beegle on independent agriculture “Farming, manufacturing are subsidized with all sorts of incentives. We don’t need that with hemp. Other countries, China? They’re killing it on the fiber side. 90% of what Canada grows, we eat. So the market’s there, we’re just don’t have the infrastructure yet. But it’s coming.”

Transcript:

Seth Adler: Hemp spotlight one, welcome to Cannabis Economy, I'm your host Seth Adler. Download episodes on canneconomy.com, that's two n's, and the word economy.

Seth Adler: First, Rick Trojan, and then Rick Trojan and Morris Beegle join us. All of these interviews were recorded throughout 2018 with the passage of the Farm Bill, or the Hemp Bill, it seems appropriate to release them now.

Seth Adler: So first a word from this episode's supporter, and then Rick Trojan, and then Rick Trojan and Morris Beegle.

Seth Adler: Cannabinoid deep dive, CBC, and CBG a public service announcement from Steep Hill. Cannabichromene or CBC, is non-psychoactive like CBD, and has been shown to be about 10 times more effective than CBD in treating anxiety and stress. It also displays efficiency in treating inflammation, pain relief, and is both anti-viral and anti-tumor. CBC has also been shown to stimulate the growth of bone tissue. Cannabigerol or CBG is also non-psychoactive, and has been shown to stimulate the growth of new brain cells, including in the elderly. It should be noted that genuinely neurogenic compounds are extremely rare. CBG also stimulates bone growth, is anti-bacterial, and anti-tumor, and combats insomnia. Go to steephill.com/canneconomy for more information.

Rick Trojan: Rick Trojan the Hemp Road Trip.

Seth Adler: Okay, the Hemp Road Trip, that's the nom de guerre, right?

Rick Trojan: Yeah, that's kind of the overall entity that we focus on.

Seth Adler: Alright, so I told you that I wanted to spotlight hemp and you said, "Okay."

Seth Adler: So let's start with The Road Trip I guess. As you said, folks kind of best know that. Only for the past two years it seems like, what a long strange trip it's been right?

Rick Trojan: It's been incredible, we literally had our second year anniversary in Iowa last week. We talked with a bunch of legislatures on the Hill for a state bill that we think we can pass. Which is interesting 'cause it was only two years ago we were there for the presidential primaries, and the first guy would refuse to shake my hand because I was a hemp farmer and he though he would test positive for marijuana, and he had a commercial drivers license. To only be there two years later ... I mean the fight's been going on for years, but we made a lot of progress in two years for sure.

Seth Adler: And the Hill being Washington, DC.

Rick Trojan: In Iowa, the Capitol in Iowa.

Seth Adler: The Capital of Iowa. And so what does a bill look like from Rick's perspective?

Rick Trojan: Well the joy of our country is there's 50 states and there's probably going to be 50 different state bills. So some of the best bills allow farmers to utilize the stalk, the stems, the roots, and the seed which have never been a controlled substance. So utilize that even if the plant goes, it's called hot, over 0.3%. So places like North Carolina, that's great, places like Vermont, they charge $25 and you plant whatever you want. So the regulations are very minimal. As they should be on a commercial crop.

Rick Trojan: So I think people ... We testified the other day here in Colorado, on using cannabis stock from the marijuana plant as fiber in carpet, and those sorts of things, and it didn't pass out to committee. So there's still that fear of THC.

Seth Adler: So it didn't pass out of committee. Here's what I don't understand. What I do know, is that cannabis is a schedule one substance. But I also know that there's the farm bill that states that hemp before it goes hot as you say, under .3 is legal. So how can it not pass out of committee if this is a legal thing?

Rick Trojan: So, great question, but to just clarify a bit. Cannabis, THC is the controlled substance. So not cannabis itself. So cannabis, CBD, CBG, those sorts of things, are not a controlled substance and have not been and we're actually suing the DEA ... The HIA is suing the DEA because of this. But-

Seth Adler: Well that's ... you and I agree, what I'm saying is, as far as the text, the Hemp Bill declassifies .3 and under.

Rick Trojan: Correct.

Seth Adler: It's a little bit gray as to what we're talking about when it's actually stated as marijuana in Federal legislation. So there is a little bit of gray, a little bit of mystique.

Seth Adler: Hemp spotlight one, welcome to Cannabis Economy, I'm your host Seth Adler. Download episodes on canneconomy.com, that's two n's, and the word economy.

Seth Adler: First, Rick Trojan, and then Rick Trojan and Morris Beegle join us. All of these interviews were recorded throughout 2018 with the passage of the Farm Bill, or the Hemp Bill, it seems appropriate to release them now.

Seth Adler: So first a word from this episode's supporter, and then Rick Trojan, and then Rick Trojan and Morris Beegle.

Seth Adler: Cannabinoid deep dive, CBC, and CBG a public service announcement from Steep Hill. Cannabichromene or CBC, is non-psychoactive like CBD, and has been shown to be about 10 times more effective than CBD in treating anxiety and stress. It also displays efficiency in treating inflammation, pain relief, and is both anti-viral and anti-tumor. CBC has also been shown to stimulate the growth of bone tissue. Cannabigerol or CBG is also non-psychoactive, and has been shown to stimulate the growth of new brain cells, including in the elderly. It should be noted that genuinely neurogenic compounds are extremely rare. CBG also stimulates bone growth, is anti-bacterial, and anti-tumor, and combats insomnia. Go to steephill.com/canneconomy for more information.

Rick Trojan: Rick Trojan the Hemp Road Trip.

Seth Adler: Okay, the Hemp Road Trip, that's the nom de guerre, right?

Rick Trojan: Yeah, that's kind of the overall entity that we focus on.

Seth Adler: Alright, so I told you that I wanted to spotlight hemp and you said, "Okay."

Seth Adler: So let's start with The Road Trip I guess. As you said, folks kind of best know that. Only for the past two years it seems like, what a long strange trip it's been right?

Rick Trojan: It's been incredible, we literally had our second year anniversary in Iowa last week. We talked with a bunch of legislatures on the Hill for a state bill that we think we can pass. Which is interesting 'cause it was only two years ago we were there for the presidential primaries, and the first guy would refuse to shake my hand because I was a hemp farmer and he though he would test positive for marijuana, and he had a commercial drivers license. To only be there two years later ... I mean the fight's been going on for years, but we made a lot of progress in two years for sure.

Seth Adler: And the Hill being Washington, DC.

Rick Trojan: In Iowa, the Capitol in Iowa.

Seth Adler: The Capital of Iowa. And so what does a bill look like from Rick's perspective?

Rick Trojan: Well the joy of our country is there's 50 states and there's probably going to be 50 different state bills. So some of the best bills allow farmers to utilize the stalk, the stems, the roots, and the seed which have never been a controlled substance. So utilize that even if the plant goes, it's called hot, over 0.3%. So places like North Carolina, that's great, places like Vermont, they charge $25 and you plant whatever you want. So the regulations are very minimal. As they should be on a commercial crop.

Rick Trojan: So I think people ... We testified the other day here in Colorado, on using cannabis stock from the marijuana plant as fiber in carpet, and those sorts of things, and it didn't pass out to committee. So there's still that fear of THC.

Seth Adler: So it didn't pass out of committee. Here's what I don't understand. What I do know, is that cannabis is a schedule one substance. But I also know that there's the farm bill that states that hemp before it goes hot as you say, under .3 is legal. So how can it not pass out of committee if this is a legal thing?

Rick Trojan: So, great question, but to just clarify a bit. Cannabis, THC is the controlled substance. So not cannabis itself. So cannabis, CBD, CBG, those sorts of things, are not a controlled substance and have not been and we're actually suing the DEA ... The HIA is suing the DEA because of this. But-

Seth Adler: Well that's ... you and I agree, what I'm saying is, as far as the text, the Hemp Bill declassifies .3 and under.

Rick Trojan: Correct.

Seth Adler: It's a little bit gray as to what we're talking about when it's actually stated as marijuana in Federal legislation. So there is a little bit of gray, a little bit of mystique.

Rick Trojan: Right, there's intentional nuance and intentional confusion right?

Seth Adler: Indeed.

Rick Trojan: So we're having this conversation [crosstalk 00:04:25] and moving things forward. So absolutely true.

Rick Trojan: So it is nuanced here in Colorado, the Bill didn't get out of committee for a couple of reasons, but mainly we have classified marijuana as a certain thing, and we have it legalized and regulated by Department of Revenue. Department of Ag actually deals with hemp, so it was a hemp issue 'cause it was a stock and stem issue. But still, there's a lot of education to be had with it.

Seth Adler: And when you and I are saying .3 above and under, we're talking about THC content.

Rick Trojan: Correct, exactly, that's exactly right.

Seth Adler: So just one more time, how does it not get out of committee if there is the Hemp Bill that says this is legal?

Rick Trojan: So there was I think 15 proponents, both on the marijuana and the hemp side. There was two oppositions. It was slam dunk from [crosstalk 00:05:08]

Seth Adler: The voting perspective-

Rick Trojan: ... every area. Politics is essentially with the happened. There were some issues with politics. And so we're going to revise the Bill, we can fix, we can improve the Bill. There were some changes last minute that some people didn't like, so we'll improve it, we'll resubmit it and see where it goes. But I think the Bill can be improved, and I think we're there, we just need to get the right people pushing the right bills.

Seth Adler: What are the politics if psychoactivity is not on the table? So in other words, if you're Senator X from Utah or Kansas or whatever, and you're saying, "Well marijuana is marijuana and I've known marijuana for 80 years and this is a terrible thing 'cause my head can go screwy." Hemp has nothing to do with that.

Rick Trojan: Correct.

Seth Adler: So how were politics involved, I wonder.

Rick Trojan: First of all, politicians need to be educated, or their staff needs to be educated.

Seth Adler: So you're saying politicians don't know what they're talking about.

Rick Trojan: Sometimes, in this case, I think that would be a fair statement.

Seth Adler: So you're basically saying on this issue? That's all we're gonna focus on. [crosstalk 00:06:03]

Rick Trojan: On this issue. I'm focused on this issue for sure.

Seth Adler: Indeed, indeed.

Rick Trojan: And on this issue, there is room for a to of education. Their staff, and then people just getting over the fear. There's been 80 years of miscommunication. I mean hemp became illegal because they termed in marijuana. So it's been convoluted since day one.

Seth Adler: That's exactly right.

Rick Trojan: So that's what we're dealing with.

Seth Adler: Alright. So when you say stalks, there are a multitude of different possibilities as far as hemp is concerned. Folks like Jack Herer have said hemp can save the world.

Rick Trojan: Correct. And it's funny, I think we expand on that now, help will save the world, it's just a matter of are we gonna be around to see it. I think that's really where I've come to. Because help grows everywhere. We were in Iowa last week and I had farmers say they've burned it, they've thrown round up on it, they've thrown everything they can at this plant, and it still keeps coming back. And so, it will be around. I mean it grows in every region on every continent, nearly. So-

Seth Adler: Oh, well Thomas Jefferson'll tell you that. If you've got area that you can't farm anything else, go ahead and throw some hemp in there. It'll grow.

Rick Trojan: TJ knows his stuff.

Seth Adler: Absolutely.

Rick Trojan: For sure. So yeah, Jack was right, and I think it will save the world, it's just a matter of are we gonna allow it to save us.

Seth Adler: Lets do the 101 of this whole thing, the food, fiber, fuel, the whole deal. Lets go with fiber first as far as stalks are concerned. How direct is this?

Rick Trojan: So once we chop it up, get the fiber and the the hurd out of the core, we get animal bedding, construction materials, biocomposites, all from the hurd. Electric storage, battery storage.

Rick Trojan: On the outside fiber we get carpet, upholstery, acoustic tiles, clothing, socks, all sorts of stuff. A longer fiber, you can get actually really, really good, the high end quality fiber, like ropes and high end material.

Seth Adler: Essentially anything you can make from plastic, anything that you can cotton, you can make from hemp?

Rick Trojan: Essentially. One reason hemp was demonized was DuPont patented nylon as a rope material in the 1930s, and hemp competed directly with that, so they made hemp and marijuana, they made marijuana and then hemp illegal. And then we actually had to go back when we went to war, we had to go back and grow hemp domestically because there wasn't enough nylon made. We didn't have enough chemicals yes. So now we have enough chemicals for our military, so they don't really need hemp as much for the military, so we're using it for other uses.

Seth Adler: And what was that campaign? Hemp-

Rick Trojan: Hemp for Victory.

Seth Adler: There we go.

Rick Trojan: US Department of Agriculture.

Seth Adler: And they put out a film!

Rick Trojan: Actually which is interesting, Jack Herer, my understanding is, we wouldn't have that film on YouTube today, but Herer in the 80s, went to the Library of Congress, found the film, checked it out, checked it back in so it was public record, and that's the only reason we have it. The government had just said they didn't do it, had taken away all the information except for Jack Herer. My understanding is that's how we got that record. [crosstalk 00:08:53]

Seth Adler: See that, research-

Rick Trojan: That's amazing.

Seth Adler: ... going to the library. You see how that matters?

Rick Trojan: We did that here in Denver. Denver had the first arrest for marijuana right after the '37 Tax Act. They arrested two people, and they said they knew each other and they were sellin' on... All this sort of stuff in the Denver Post. Which is a story I was telling, but when you go to the actually archives of the library and checked out all the stuff on microfiche and stuff, these guys never knew each other, Anslinger happened to be in town-

Seth Adler: Harry Anslinger.

Rick Trojan: Yeah, Harry Anslinger. They arrest and conviction was within five days, there was never ... They found a marijuana cigarette, it was a domestic violence issue, none of this stuff. These guys were habitual convicts, so they essentially hand picked these people and then made the story about them. There was no Lexington Hotel, there was no address even in Denver at the time that was in the Denver police report, so it was all fabricated.

Seth Adler: And this is-

Rick Trojan: Crazy.

Seth Adler: And this is how we illegalized marijuana.

Rick Trojan: Correct, they literally made shit up. It's crazy.

Seth Adler: And what is more crazy is how much we can make up with the plant. So let's get back to that. I would imagine we can make socks, we can make fuel, we can make construction material. It's gotta be so expensive to do that right?

Rick Trojan: Well think about it, it is if it's not subsidized by the government. A lot of the other industries are subsidized by the government.

Seth Adler: What are the-

Rick Trojan: Corn, pretty much farming industry- [crosstalk 00:10:10]

Seth Adler: Most any farming.

Rick Trojan: Farming, manufacturing are subsidized with all sorts of incentives. We don't have that yet with cannabis. So we have to do it ourselves. Other countries, China? They're killin' it on the fiber side. 90% of what Canada grows, we eat. So the market's here, we're just not ... We don't have the infrastructure yet. But all that-

Seth Adler: Are they subsidized up in Canada?

Rick Trojan: I believe so. I believe so yeah, they're-

Seth Adler: So what are we talking about, why is it so expensive?

Rick Trojan: It's because economies of scale right, we don't have enough. We grew 25,000 acres as a country last year. And we don't ... We grew 300,000 for the war. So just to put it in perspective. So we're growing, it's growing fast, the opportunity is there, but we need people to buy hemp. Actually, if you go buy hemp it may be more expensive, but it's healthier for you. Everything I'm wearing is cannabis, so it feels comfortable-

Seth Adler: And it does look normal.

Rick Trojan: Yeah, it looks normal. It feels absolutely amazing. I mean these jeans are 20 years old from China, and they look brand new.

Seth Adler: They do look comfortable.

Rick Trojan: They're unbelievably comfortable.

Rick Trojan: So, we just need to buy hemp, we need to help establish the market. But that's just again, through education.

Seth Adler: Okay, so there's a scale issue is what you're saying.

Rick Trojan: Mm-hmm (affirmative), correct.

Seth Adler: But once we get up to scale, it's still expensive. What makes it expensive to process hemp?

Rick Trojan: I don't think it is actually that expensive. I think the reality is, the total cost of processing hemp is actually less than processing chemicals and other oil based products. You don't have the same ... You have different issues. We have to learn as a country what those issue are. But Germany, other countries have been doin' it for years. For hundreds of years.

Seth Adler: Processing hemp.

Rick Trojan: Processing hemp. So it's not that expensive. They're doing it in China pretty much across the board. So it's not that expensive once you put total cost of ownership and operations. And actually, when you buy something and total cost of ownership, that shirt will last you 10 times longer than a shirt you're gonna get at Walmart.

Seth Adler: Alright, so let's go to the socks, let's go to the shirts. I've got my hemp in the ground, how long until it becomes a shirt. Can you bring me through that process?

Rick Trojan: Yeah, so that shirt is actually a big, big step. There's about 30 million dollars and seven processing facilities that are needed to make a shirt. So it's a longer fiber type material, but if you're talking about non-woven material so a fibrous material for carpets, for upholstery, for anything like that, that you can do ... Once it's retted, you're probably looking at eight months?

Seth Adler: Okay, and how many ... You said seven processing facilities for a shirt. What're we talking about for a carpet?

Rick Trojan: Probably two or three processing facilities.

Seth Adler: So much more direct. Which brings us to construction materials. Turn me wise.

Rick Trojan: Construction materials happen right as soon as ... After the first stage processing, you separate the fiber from the hurd. That hurd then is turned into construction material and animal bedding and all sorts of stuff. I mean, they're pretty much ready to go, there might be a secondary processing step, but you're pretty much ready to rock and roll.

Seth Adler: Okay, so then here we go. So then that's pretty direct, why aren't we doing that now?

Rick Trojan: We have two maybe three decortication facilities in the country. One of them's in Omaha, Louisville, Kentucky, and then in North Carolina.

Seth Adler: Say that word again.

Rick Trojan: Decorticating facility, so-

Seth Adler: What is that?

Rick Trojan: Decorticating is the technical term for the separation of the fiber and the hurd. So essentially-

Seth Adler: I gotcha.

Rick Trojan: ... cracking the stalk. They did it by hand in the 1930s, and 15s, and 20s, and we now have machinery to do it. Or we've had.

Rick Trojan: So after that process is done, all the stuff that falls to the floor, the inside of the plant is then swept up and put into bags or put into material for biocomposites and all sorts of things.

Seth Adler: So for the shirt-

Rick Trojan: The shirt's the fiber, the outside then becomes the shirt. That stuff goes to another processing facility, and then six more and becomes a shirt.

Seth Adler: Okay let me just make sure I understand, the outside is the construction material?

Rick Trojan: Inside.

Seth Adler: Okay, so the inside is the construction material, the outside becomes-

Rick Trojan: Fabrics, shirts, and non-woven material, carpets, that kinda stuff.

Seth Adler: Alright, so the inside of the material, I only have three decorticating?

Rick Trojan: Correct.

Seth Adler: Facilities that I can go to in the United States of America. In these United States of America. So I have to find one of them and then I've got my insider material which I can go directly into a house?

Rick Trojan: Correct.

Seth Adler: Okay, why are we not doing that near at least those decorticating facilities?

Rick Trojan: So we will. Those decorticating facilities are coming online this year.

Seth Adler: Those three are not even online yet?

Rick Trojan: Correct. Well they're online but on a smaller scale. They're finally scaling up to deal with real acreage. So we have some mobile units here in Colorado that process or decorticate, but really, we do need to do that. So there are five houses here in Colorado that are made out of hemp. We've seen all except for the dome in Paonia and all of them are made with hemp imported from Europe.

Seth Adler: And you said Dome in Paonia?

Rick Trojan: Yeah, there's a hemp dome. I haven't seen it, but it looks pretty fantastic, but it's in Paonia.

Seth Adler: Alright, so where are those three decorticating facilities again? Just to make-

Rick Trojan: Omaha, Kentucky, and North Carolina.

Seth Adler: Why don't we have one here? In Colorado is where we are by the way.

Rick Trojan: Yes exactly, so why we don't have one in Colorado, a couple reasons. We grew about 10,000 acres of industrial hemp last year. And let's say about 85% of that could have been used to decorticate right?

Seth Adler: Fine.

Rick Trojan: There are steps that need to be taken. So farmers need to be educated on leaving it in the field, and how to mow it and bale it. But there's not enough, even with 10,000 acres, there's not quite enough material to justify full capacity of a decortication facility.

Seth Adler: How much do we need?

Rick Trojan: Probably around, I don't know the exact number, probably around twice that. Probably around double.

Seth Adler: But, haven't we been doubling and tripling each year as far as hemp acreage?

Rick Trojan: We have. But some of the farms I work with are staying with the same acreage they had last year. So they're not necessarily doubling. New farmers may be coming on here in Colorado, but areas like Iowa and Nebraska, they have plenty of farm land, they have plenty of room that they can grow and utilize those facilities. So that's why I think those individual put those facilities there. But here, we don't have enough material. That's why the marijuana bill, we put in to use that marijuana material would give us a monthly supply of 25,000 pounds, that's huge. Right? Instead of having to wait 'till August for everyone's big harvest, and then you have all this material but nowhere to decorticate it. So it's kind of a chicken and egg kind of things.

Seth Adler: Wait, how does the bill give you 25,000?

Rick Trojan: The marijuana waste is about 25,000 pounds of stalk of stalk in the hurd, from the plant's cannabis stalk. That gets thrown into landfills every month. So if we could take 25,000 pounds of that and put it into decorticating and using animal bedding and those sorts of things-

Seth Adler: From our friends on the other side of the fence is what we're saying?

Rick Trojan: Correct.

Seth Adler: From .3 and above, that's not where it is, it's not in the stalks.

Rick Trojan: Correct, it's not in the stalks at all.

Seth Adler: So let us have those stalks and then of course we've got the scale.

Rick Trojan: Yup, exactly. Those stalks would justify investment in a true research and decortication facility.

Seth Adler: Okay. How much do you think it would cost? And I know that you're just a guy and you're on the road a lot by definition with the Road Show. How much do you think it would cost to create a decortication facility at the scope and scale that would matter?

Rick Trojan: Based on the other facilities, you're looking at probably a million and a half to two million. So it's not a big investment.

Seth Adler: You've gotta be kidding me.

Rick Trojan: It's not a big investment. So that type of money is certainly in the cannabis industry?

Seth Adler: Correct.

Rick Trojan: [crosstalk 00:17:13] Now connect those dots.

Seth Adler: But there's so much more money on the cannabis industry on the high THC side, because that's where all of that so much sexier than the shirts and agriculture right?

Rick Trojan: Right. But people are starting to realize there's so much more opportunity on the industrial side.

Seth Adler: Indeed.

Rick Trojan: So I think-

Seth Adler: Also, the price per pound and the price per gram are certainly not what they used to be on the-

Rick Trojan: Correct. And they're going to fall-

Seth Adler: Precipitously.

Rick Trojan: For sure.

Seth Adler: Well they already have fallen precipitously. But the point is, if everyone's over there, and you're an investor, why wouldn't you come over here if there's only certain products that you can sell over there in certain places, whereas you can sell all these products over here, in all of the places.

Rick Trojan: I mean you have a national and global market on the hemp side that's not the same on the marijuana side. Or you have that on the [inaudible 00:18:00] but you don't have access to it.

Seth Adler: Totally understand. What else are we missing here? I mean this seems as clear as day. Let's go get ... You and me, let's walk down the block, we'll get a few million bucks and get this thing going. What else is in the way?

Rick Trojan: I think there's a lot of confusion out there. Within the industry there's a lot of people pitching a lot of ideas that aren't going to come to fruition, and whether they know that or don't that's just again, lack of education. People get excited, the numbers we ran our first year, looked incredible. I mean, we were gonna retire within three years right? That's obviously not even close to the case.

Rick Trojan: So there is a learning curve still, and I think that some investors are hesitant. I know some that are waiting for ... They wanna get in on processing side, but they don't want a startup and they wanna have controlling ownership and that's a hard-

Seth Adler: They don't want a startup and they want controlling ownership, that's fine. And what we're saying is, we don't have the scope and scale of a non-startup here in Colorado?

Rick Trojan: In the industry domestically, all the three major players, they're good. They're rocking and rollin. The people that need the funding are the people coming up. The new people. So there's a little bit of that I think. And just, investors ... And I mean, really the government. The government comes out with crazy ass sayings, and Session, and Trump are tweeted and doing crazy stuff.

Rick Trojan: I mean, I've had deals break down the day after that's said and things were ready to go and- [crosstalk 00:19:23]

Seth Adler: The Sessions memo.

Rick Trojan: ... people just get cold feet.

Seth Adler: When the Cole memo is rescinded. Are you saying is that the day after? Is that what you're talking about?

Rick Trojan: Now, just they just say dumb shit all the time, so it's like ... The Cole Memo wasn't a big deal for the hemp side, that mainly was just guidance. And actually it was super dumb to even rescind it, 'cause it was protecting children in her state. So whatever if they don't wanna protect that, that's up to them-

Seth Adler: When you say the day after, what are you talking about?

Rick Trojan: Oh gosh, there's been so much crazy shit, I don't even pay attention much anymore. It's just-

Seth Adler: But it has happened-

Rick Trojan: Yeah, they just come out with just things, or the DEA will come out with a new guidance which we've sued them on. The statement of principle last year was a big deal. The creation of the marijuana extract rule, illegally, was also a big deal.

Seth Adler: So that hit you guys, 'cause it didn't hit the cannabis guys.

Rick Trojan: It hit the CBD ... It said CBD specifically. That hit the CBD fairly hard.

Seth Adler: Particularly.

Rick Trojan: But just statements and misguidance and all sorts of ... Their intentionally stalling the market and that has stalled investment, to me. That's probably the number one actually.

Seth Adler: Okay, I also think that investors don't understand what the opportunity is beyond that. Beyond cold feet, okay fine. Beyond traditional legislation and regulatory issues, we're dealing with that in cannabis anyway. What other pieces of education can happen for the investment community so that they understand how big this market can possibly be?

Rick Trojan: Great question I think it's twofold. I think you have a lot of people ... Cannabis on the hemp side is starting to get more professional. I think it another way to put it. So with that development of professionalism, the advocates and the passionate people that have been knitting shirts and doing awesome stuff with this plant for 20 years, are very passionate but aren't necessarily business people. So I think there's a little bit of ... We're in a transition period as well. So as businesses are coming in, people are starting to realize the opportunity. And that's why I've seen more money now with this administration which is crazy, than I saw under Obama, which was a much more certain regulatory infrastructure.

Rick Trojan: I think people are realizing, and I think that the transition is happening. I don't want to say gentrification of cannabis, but kind of on a corporate or professional scale. [crosstalk 00:21:34]

Seth Adler: Take your point.

Rick Trojan: We're transitioning. So people that come ... I come from the business space, so the last couple years, I've had to learn a lot of the other side. Of all the awesome things and the passion obviously that I have, but people are starting now to make business decisions. And they're start to ask the right questions. So those companies are developing and becoming more professional, and as they do, investors become more comfortable with what's going on. So as they seek mentors and those sorts of things, that transition or that knowledge, and that business skillset is transitioning over, and with that comes the investment [crosstalk 00:22:09].

Seth Adler: Once we started to get different talent. A couple more suit jackets, a couple more stiff collars in cannabis, obviously money followed in a much bigger way. And so we're talking about the same thing here. We're still behind essentially.

Seth Adler: You say you come from business, where are you from originally?

Rick Trojan: I'm originally from Denver. So born and raised.

Seth Adler: You are personally from Colorado?

Rick Trojan: Yup, I'm one of the natives that are left. I came back, yeah for sure.

Seth Adler: Well I think that though a lot of you guys are still here, it's just that there's so many folks that have come-

Rick Trojan: That's true, we have new friends from other states, for sure.

Seth Adler: What do folks not understand about Colorado generally?

Rick Trojan: It snows here all the time and if you move here, the prices are ... It's too expensive to move here, it snows here. Come for the holiday, come visit, but living here is just a nightmare. It's probably one of the worst places to live.

Seth Adler: And so Rick, as I have many friends here, I know that those are lies to keep people away.

Rick Trojan: That's, yup.

Seth Adler: Exactly. I walk around and there's a lot of snow, but it's not that cold, and it's crazy. And it's beautiful, and it's an amazing place.

Rick Trojan: It is absolutely an amazing place.

Seth Adler: How has it changed over these past five years that I have been coming here very frequently?

Rick Trojan: I think a lot has changed. The landscape here, after traveling all over the country, some places are just more stressed out than other places in general? This place, the people are just happy. I mean, I think-

Seth Adler: The body politic.

Rick Trojan: Yeah, the culture is very open and accepting and tolerant, and just mellow. It's just a very ... The food is amazing, the people that come here love the outdoors, there's tons to do. So I think ... I'm obliviously biased, but I live right downtown, a couple blocks away and I love it.

Seth Adler: What was the business that you came from to come into here?

Rick Trojan: Healthcare IT. So I had a healthcare IT ... When Obama did the recovery act, they required patient inter-electronic medical records. And my company, before smartphones, was the intake software of that.

Seth Adler: Look at that.

Rick Trojan: Sold it to a company that made the kiosk systems because smartphones came out and that was going away.

Seth Adler: So you understand markets.

Rick Trojan: I literally go into cannabis because I wanted to stay in colorado, because I have a family here. So I started a marijuana company because that would keep me in Colorado. Now I'm driving around the world on a bus and on planes talkin' about hemp, so it just backfired.

Seth Adler: Totally understood. Victim of your own success.

Rick Trojan: Totally.

Seth Adler: But as we talk about the bus and the planes, lets make sure we understand the other kind of tent pole geographies of hemp growth.

Seth Adler: So Colorado we kind of described the market. The other market that we always hear about is Kentucky. Tell us about what's happening there.

Rick Trojan: Kentucky I think is now the third largest state based on acreage. They've transitioned their program quite a bit. They used to have to go through the Department of Ag through University of Kentucky. They've had some issues with not getting seed in from the DEA. So their program has gone through so many blocks like all. I think people utilize their program and the way it's set up to better set up their state programs, like North Carolina and those sorts of things. But I think New York just invested $10 million of public money into industrial hemp, half on cultivation, half on processing. North Carolina had the largest growth of industrial hemp from year one to year two. Minnesota and North Dakota are just blowing up as well as far as acreage. Kentucky's doin' well, but I think other states are just ... I mean there's 25,000 acres, and I think there's six big producers. So, it's Kentucky, North Carolina, Minnesota, North Dakota, and Colorado.

Seth Adler: Who's number two?

Rick Trojan: I can get you some stuff from Vote Hemp, but I think it is North Carolina.

Seth Adler: Where's Iowa?

Rick Trojan: Iowa doesn't have any. Iowa's one of 15 states that has zero. They have absolutely no acreage growing for hemp, which is insane.

Seth Adler: Just because Iowa as far as farming. Nebraska and all of these things.

Rick Trojan: First is Colorado, number two is Oregon with 3,400 and change, then Kentucky.

Seth Adler: Got it. Alright, so Oregon ... Kentucky three, Oregon two. They like to grow a lot is what we've been reading lately. Meaning they have too much supply. Where is their closest ... What was it called again?

Rick Trojan: Decorticator.

Seth Adler: Where's the closest decorticator to Oregon?

Rick Trojan: There's some mobile units, but I don't think ... Fiber's not really ... Oregon's not really focused on the fiber.

Seth Adler: One more time where these things are?

Rick Trojan: Kentucky, and Omaha, and North Carolina.

Seth Adler: Okay. Alright, what about Nebraska?

Rick Trojan: Nebraska, they just grow a couple acres of hemp. And they actually ... Nebraska was the first state to make CBD a scheduled drug actually. They made it a schedule four drug.

Seth Adler: They went backwards?

Rick Trojan: They did go backwards. Totally wen backwards. But they thought they were going forwards because they were misinformed by certain lobby interests that was interested in just protecting the FDA approved CBD.

Seth Adler: So here's what I don't understand generally. I think that Nebraska is a red state. And I think that folks that usually vote red, usually don't like regulations, and usually don't like government subsidies. And so, if we're ina red state that's making more regulations and forcing subsidies to farmers, whereas they could remove regulations and then not have to subsidize farmers. 'Cause I know that you and I are now finding ourselves on two different sides of the fence. I think the whole key to hemp, is making sure to sell it as don't subsidize us.

Rick Trojan: I think we're on the same ... I think the subsidies are creating an inefficient market. We have an overproduction of corn. We have corn that our cows won't even eat, now we're making into shirts for Christ sakes, because that's not an efficient market. Corn should not be making shirts. They turn into oil and that's just not ... The only reason it is, is because we have subsidies. Because people are growing more than we need as a market.

Seth Adler: If we replace that corn with hemp-

Rick Trojan: With hemp, we're good. If we let the market speak for itself, hemp will win out. That's why we're in the position we're in, because the market is not speaking for itself. It's being manipulated by corporate interests for the last 80 years. And so, if we allow the market to speak, then hemp would be a really product.

Seth Adler: Alright, so moving forward, decorticator in Kentucky that gives me a bullish sign on them. Decorticator in North Carolina, I think that's the dark horse here as far as hemp.

Rick Trojan: Huge, huge.

Seth Adler: And then the third decorticating facility is where?

Rick Trojan: Omaha, Nebraska.

Seth Adler: Oh right, and they ruined it. So we have to wait on them.

Rick Trojan: But they have ... People are shipping. They get stuff from Minnesota, they get ...

Seth Adler: No, but it's ... That's what I'm saying-

Rick Trojan: Totally expensive, it's not gonna be sustainable long-term, but it is gonna be a solution for near-term-

Seth Adler: For near-term for some people. I think that Kentucky, North Carolina, and Colorado's gotta get a decorticator.

Rick Trojan: And we're working on some stuff in San Luis Valley and Alimosa. We do, we need a large scale decortication facility.

Seth Adler: How many acres?

Rick Trojan: With R&D and those sorts of things.

Seth Adler: How many acres do you need for that?

Rick Trojan: I'm not sure what the actual break even number is. I think it's around 20,000 or so. So we need about [crosstalk 00:29:11] double where we're at.

Seth Adler: That's not even that big compared to what we're doing-

Rick Trojan: For World War Two, yeah.

Seth Adler: Well .3 and above, already in this space, this general space, we could have facilities that are ten times the size of that. So this is not hard I don't think. Especially in the state of Colorado where we've got regulations that are friendly.

Rick Trojan: Right, right, for sure. Colorado will need to become the innovator. That's going to be our position as a state. We're not gonna be the largest growers.

Seth Adler: No.

Rick Trojan: We're not ... Hemp'll grow everywhere, but it will grow better on a lot more acreage in a lot of other places. So we need to learn, like we have on the high THC side, this is the place to go if you wanna learn anything new. Sure in California they do some stuff, but they're all over the place. This is a regulated market, that's doing things right, that has compliance, pesticide ... I mean we-

Seth Adler: We already did that.

Rick Trojan: You don't get sick from our stuff anymore. You go to California you can get sick for real. It's a different [crosstalk 00:30:05].

Seth Adler: It's like the first day. It's day one in California as far as with the regulations. They'll tell you of course it's been 30 years fantastic, but your point being, we have an established market, we know what to do with this type of thing here in Colorado.

Rick Trojan: You're a different business here in Colorado than you are in California at the moment. California will get there, but what I'm saying is we have worked with under regulatory infrastructure, longer.

Seth Adler: So China is one thing. That's a different thing as far as cost because living wage and the whole weird thing that is happening there. So let's leave them aside. Understanding that it is a large hemp country. I have read things about in Thomas Jefferson's day, Russia was a big hemp place. Where else globally right now is hemp big besides China?

Rick Trojan: Canada, European Union, France, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania grow a lot. Romania. Ukraine grows a ton it [crosstalk 00:31:05]

Seth Adler: So that's right on the edge of Russia.

Rick Trojan: Yup, Ukraine's killin' it. Russia still grows a ton of it. In fact, that 0.3 was a fight between Russia, which was 1%, and France was 0.3 back in the day, so my understanding is that's how that 0.3 came about, it was an international fight. And Russia was supplying the US with hemp, and Britain had got all pissed and all sorts of stuff. So it's been a big deal for a long ... Like wars have been fought over this and we just don't talk about it.

Seth Adler: Alright, so Hemp of Victory.

Rick Trojan: Hemp for Victory.

Seth Adler: Once again here in these United States of America. And this time we mean as far as the economic good of the country, as far as jobs are concerned. How many jobs could be created from this industry?

Rick Trojan: Our first year ... There are thousands of jobs created here in Colorado just on the hemp side, but our first year, when we did 300 acres with the farm I was associated with, we had about 15 people hired, and we impacted about 50 jobs total. Now they're at 1,500 acres, some other farms are doin' some ... We have hundreds and hundreds of people working, just in this industry on the farm, let alone processing facilities, marketing, all that sort of stuff, media. It's absolutely incredible.

Seth Adler: And that's without the basic need of that decorticating facility?

Rick Trojan: Correct.

Seth Adler: Come on.

Rick Trojan: Right, that's without having the revenue stream of the fiber.

Seth Adler: That's with nothing! It's with nothing there are jobs being created.

Rick Trojan: It's awesome.

Seth Adler: Fantastic. This is very good to meet you.

Rick Trojan: Good to meet you.

Seth Adler: You are the Trojan horse of the hemp industry.

Rick Trojan: Yeah, so something scary comin' out, once I get in then I'm gonna have someone ...

Seth Adler: Well no, I don't think the analogy holds up. Let's be honest. I tried to force it, it doesn't work. How do you like the last name though? 'Cause everybody thinks of one thing I'm sure.

Rick Trojan: Totally. And I hate it when I was in high school. But now I love it because it's an ice breaker, and yeah, my middle name's Richard, so that obviously helps.

Seth Adler: Wow, look at that.

Rick Trojan: Yeah, kinda, thanks a lot Mom and Dad.

Seth Adler: Alright, so three final questions, I'll tell you what they are, I'll ask you them in order.

Seth Adler: What's most surprised you in cannabis? And let's remember that industrial hemp is still cannabis sativa, just .3 or below as far as THC is concerned.

Seth Adler: Second question is what's most surprised you in life?

Seth Adler: Third question, on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's gotta be on there.

Seth Adler: But first thing's first, what's most surprised you in cannabis?

Rick Trojan: The fact that one half of this huge growing industry doesn't know about the other half, and the products that can be made. Not actually ... The high THC half really doesn't know much about the industrial side of the plant. So the fact that the plant can do so much more than get you stoned, or provide you with supplements, medical benefits or supplements. There's so much more to this plant, and I think that's the most surprising to me.

Seth Adler: Well that I think, we would love some numbers here. But if you've got cannabis product that can be used for medicinal purposes, or let's call it wellness, as you kind of inferred there. That's wonderful. If you've then got the rest of the plant that can give you food, fuel, fiber, pharma, well pharma's on the other side.

Rick Trojan: We say hemp, we say health, energy, manufacturing, and planet. So it impacts all those. Your health, and then manufacturing as you said, planet, and then energy of course. It's amazing what this plant can do. Honestly, it amazes me every day.

Seth Adler: What I'm saying is, I think you broke it down 50%. What I'm learning here, and what I have learned, is it seems like this side's the bigger side by a lot.

Rick Trojan: Yeah.

Seth Adler: Okay, what's most surprised you in life?

Rick Trojan: How much I still have to learn I think. How much I learn every day. I think that is actually the most ... I'm constantly learning new stuff, and it's actually there's so much out there it's amazing.

Seth Adler: You've one of those? I'm one of those people too.

Rick Trojan: I love it.

Seth Adler: So it's not, you have an opinion and you're going to stick by it no matter what happens.

Rick Trojan: Correct.

Seth Adler: It's the opposite of that is your point?

Rick Trojan: Yeah. If you have something ... It might be I would love to ... Please tell me and let me figure it out. Yeah, for sure.

Seth Adler: How many people that you run into during the day, do you think have this point of view?

Rick Trojan: I don't know. I wish more of us did because it's so much-

Seth Adler: It's easier right?

Rick Trojan: I think it's easier, but people just sometimes don't get it I guess. I find it easier, but yeah. That's how it is.

Seth Adler: It allows you to be happier, certainly.

Rick Trojan: Oh my gosh, for sure.

Seth Adler: You can be much less angry.

Rick Trojan: Well you just choose to be happy, because you know you have the choice. It's like, okay, this guy's being a dick, alright whatever. I'm gonna go over here.

Seth Adler: Well even that, but it's also like, oh that's information I had not considered before, enlightening and happiness, dopamine.

Rick Trojan: Thank you.

Seth Adler: Most important question Rick, right? We're here tryin' to build an industry, forget about that. On the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song, what's gotta be on there?

Rick Trojan: Oh my gosh, and so it's interesting, I had an unfortunate incident in the hospital a couple years ago and I was there for a month in ICU, it was in Germany, and I actually made a little soundtrack so I had good songs.

Seth Adler: Oh wow.

Rick Trojan: Which is cool and I still have it.

Seth Adler: And you look healthy, now everything is good.

Rick Trojan: Yeah, I'm good. I mean yeah, whatever. We're all gonna die someday. But again, happiness. This is gonna be the corniest-

Seth Adler: What did happen?

Rick Trojan: I ended up having an allergic reaction to a prescription medication. So, Allopurinol for high uric acid for gout. And I took it a couple weeks before 'cause I didn't wanna get sick in Germany. I built up 100 milligrams, 200, 300 a day, and then at the 300 my body just shut-

Seth Adler: I've heard about that. There are side effects to pharmaceutical drugs.

Rick Trojan: Huge, and I didn't really understand.

Seth Adler: You know where I hear about that? On their advertisements.

Rick Trojan: Everywhere. [crosstalk 00:36:47] And there's happy people singing and water is trickling down.

Seth Adler: They tell us.

Rick Trojan: This is amazing, you also could die. My favorite's the towel one. The blue towel. I don't have a TV anymore, but Abilify or something? It's this blue towel for if you're depressed, and the side effect is depression and suicidal thoughts. And I'm like, "Why would you take that?" That doesn't make any sense to me.

Seth Adler: I got a better one, I got a better one. Mine is, "Opioid induced constipation." Alright, so we gave you the first opioid, you took that and you're taking it. We've noticed, and you've noticed that you're not constipated. So here's this second pill that you should take so that you can solve our first pill.

Rick Trojan: Is that the colon one that has the pink?

Seth Adler: I don't know, the whole point is-

Rick Trojan: Oh my lord.

Seth Adler: The whole point is, I'm gonna sell you a second pill to solve the first pill. Or, I could just be growin' shirts and construction materials. Or whatever. My words not yours. Oh the soundtrack. So you've got the soundtrack, you're laying in bed there.

Rick Trojan: I'm in Colorado so I'm goin' country. I'm gonna say Tim McGraw's My Next 30 Years.

Seth Adler: Okay. And so you're gonna have to ... I'm not a-

Rick Trojan: So it's essentially the first 30 years he rocked it out, and next 30 years just kinda focusing on new things and different-

Seth Adler: I see. I'm doing that.

Rick Trojan: Different concepts.

Seth Adler: I'm also doing that. And I just ... My country music, I've got Johnny Cash 100%, I've got Willie 100%, the Patsy Cline. But I'm very old school.

Rick Trojan: I like the old school. I'm multiple too. There's a bar here called the Grisly Rose, which has been around for 40 years or so, and that's where I learned to country dace, that's old school country right there.

Seth Adler: So are we talking about the line dancing?

Rick Trojan: Back in the day.

Seth Adler: Or the 2-step?

Rick Trojan: I call it the real dancing. Like dancing, dancing. like 2-step, cha-cha, all that stuff. Swing, all that stuff.

Seth Adler: What I've noticed about the 2-step, is that the dudes, they really grab their dance partner in the back. But they're hangin' on each other, both of 'em. It's like 2-step I think because it becomes one being.

Rick Trojan: If you do it right, you just kind of move, exactly, like four feet go 2-steps. It's kinda cool.

Seth Adler: Rick Trojan, thank you so much.

Rick Trojan: Thanks man.

Seth Adler: Let's go get a decorticator.

Rick Trojan: For sure. Right on.

Seth Adler: Very much appreciate you guys being here. This is the fifth time isn't it.

Morris Beegle: Yup, we are number five.

Seth Adler: Unbelievable. So Morris Beegle, Rick Trojan, we're gonna kick this whole thing off by having a little bit of a conversation. My name is Seth Adler, I host the Cannabis Economy podcast, and this conversation is gonna be one of the podcasts that goes out on yours, and on mine. Collaboration.

Rick Trojan: Buildin' bridges.

Seth Adler: Building bridges. Let's make sure folks know who you are. This is an industry audience, so most folks will be familiar with both of your names. And as Morris kind of figures out how to dissipate with the technology, Rick, why don't you take it first, real quick.

Rick Trojan: Yeah, my name is Rick Trojan, I'm with the Hemp Road Trip. Advisor. I [inaudible 00:39:56] a couple companies on both sides of the plant, the high THC and the low THC side. Been around the country and to three continents learning about industrial hemp, educating about industrial hemp, and trying to change our laws. So thank you for coming to NoCo. First time with Cann Economy, and Let's Talk Hemp crossing the bridges between the industrial side and the non-industrial side. And so we're super excited to have you guys.

Seth Adler: Absolutely. Now, how long you been doing this? Did you mention that?

Rick Trojan: I've been on the road, this'll be our third year.

Seth Adler: But in total, dealing with cannabis.

Rick Trojan: About eight years.

Seth Adler: And Morris, I say cannabis, that's okay right because hemp is cannabis as far as I know.

Morris Beegle: Well yes, you can say cannabis because hemp is cannabis, marijuana is cannabis. Hemp is not marijuana, but it is all cannabis. And that's what everybody here needs to know, and I think most people that are here do know that. But for those of you that don't, hemp is cannabis.

Seth Adler: It's all about 3% THC, above ... Excuse me, .3% THC above. Morris give us a little bit of background on you so that we know that.

Morris Beegle: Alright, my name's Morris Beegle. I'm co-founder here of NoCo Hemp Expo and Colorado Hemp Company which started in 2012 when Amendment 64 hit the airwaves here in Colorado. We legalized marijuana to tax and regulate it like alcohol. There was also a clause in that amendment that allowed farmers to start growing industrial hemp here in Colorado. And it was like, hey, we're gonna jump into this scene, into this industry because we saw the potential, and it's close to my heart. Tryin' to do something for our planet. This plant's been taken away from us for 80 years, and it's no longer gonna be that. There's an industry, there's a movement happening, and we're gonna free this plant so everybody in this country, and everybody around the globe can maximize what this plant can do.

Seth Adler: There you go, and you're showcasing that here at NoCo. There are five expos. How many booths, how many people? You've got a ton going on right here right now. This is a great showcase for hemp itself?

Morris Beegle: Yeah, we've got 150 vendors approximately. Covering all aspects of the plant. We've got the industrial, building material, bioplastics, composites, nutritional supplements, protein, food, apparel, the whole gamut, guitars.

Seth Adler: You name it, we got it. That's who these guys are. Let's make sure we understand who's in the audience. Just by a show of hands, how many farmers do we have in the audience? More than a few, most I would say. How many manufacturers, processors? Not too many. Maybe one or two. How many retailers? How many suppliers to the industry? A few. So mostly farmers. And if we're talkin' to cultivars ... Morris what were you just gonna say?

Morris Beegle: I was gonna say, is there anybody here from the DEA, please raise your hand. What about the FDA? Alright, you guys stay here, because you're gonna get educated. And we're gonna tar and feather you afterwards.

Seth Adler: So Morris jests of course. If I'm a farmer, sittin' here watchin' us three. And I just noticed, three really not so good lookin' guys. All together, right here. I mean, we did not start this off nice.

Rick Trojan: That's why we have a radio show. This isn't' normal for us.

Seth Adler: Exactly, this is all radio. But if I'm listening to you guys, what can I do as a farmer, what can I do as a manufacturer, processor, what can I do as a retailer, as an ancillary business in this space, to help bring the supply chain together? What needs to be done? Rick, why don't you start?

Rick Trojan: I think first and foremost, is know what you're planting for. Are you going to plant for cannabinoids, are you gonna plant for seed, or are you gonna plant for fiber? What exactly are you going for? And then finding that seed that's right for that type of output. And then obviously finding out who's gonna process is. How you're gonna harvest it, who's gonna process it would be the next step. That's the area where we have the most opportunity here in Colorado, but I think in the nation, is the processing side. Taking that plant and then turning it into the first stage processing after it's dried or take the seeds and make byproduct from that. So that's really what you're gonna plant for, and then who's gonna process it. And then you really just need to get seed in the ground, and the seed has to get used to, unless it's from here, it has to get used to the environment.

Rick Trojan: It's super adaptable, but that means it does some weird things for the first couple harvests. So chill out, let the plant get used to the ground, you get used to the plant. It takes a little time, but really focus on what you wanna do and what you wanna grow for.

Seth Adler: So that's kinda the front of the supply chain. As we make our way through the supply chain, bringing folks together, making sure we've got decorticators here in Colorado. What really needs to be done as far as the supply chain Morris?

Morris Beegle: Well like you said, the processing side of things, especially on the industrial side, we've got plenty of extraction, technology in this state and in Kentucky and Oregon. But we do not have that industrial, the decotrication where we can A make building materials, or materials for bioplastics, composites, animal bedding. That side of things needs to take off here. Somebody needs to step up, and people are stepping up. There's a decorticator that's supposed to be here firing up. I don't know if it is yes, but-

Seth Adler: I love how it's rumor and [crosstalk 00:45:31]

Morris Beegle: There's rumors. So the process, we do have a bottleneck, and there's gonna be several panels this weekend to talk about this processing bottleneck. I'll let those guys get into it more. But I think that what's driving the market now obviously, is the cannabinoid, CBD supplement side of the business. And that's gonna continue to be the case here for the next couple of years, because that's what people are growin' for, that's the demand in the market, and I still think that there's tremendous opportunities for those that are wanting to get into this space.

Seth Adler: Yeah, and that kind of is ... You mentioned Amendment 64, that's really the .3 and above side of things which obviously brought the processors and the CBD folks, anything that you're going to actually ingest, we've got that part of the market set. We're all good there. What about reinventing? Manufacturing jobs in the United States of America and globally, through hemp. These couches are made with hemp. I can't get that at Sears I don't think. Is Sears still open?

Morris Beegle: The one in Fort Collins shut down.

Seth Adler: Okay, so you take my point. If I go onto the internet, I can't necessarily get a hemp couch lickety-split. Although you guys did. How long are we to watch for this supply chain on the manufacturing side to actually make itself apparent? If it's been five years in NoCo, do we gotta wait another five years? What are your thoughts?

Rick Trojan: I would say three to five years I really would. The textile side of things, I don't see that happening on any sort of scale here anytime in the near future. We've got Barbera and Summer that're gonna be talkin' tomorrow. And we've also got Adam Dunn from Hoodlamb who's got an apparel line. He's comin' up right after this-

Seth Adler: He's comin' up next.

Rick Trojan: And he can speak to that as well too.

Seth Adler: What are your thoughts? I mean, there are the Adam Dunns of the world, but he's kind of a unique character these days? What are your thoughts on-

Morris Beegle: Well, he's a pioneer.

Rick Trojan: These days? He always has been.

Seth Adler: Yeah, there you go.

Morris Beegle: I mean he's a pioneer, and we'll hear from him in little bit. But I think the reality is, textiles like shirts and such are gonna be hard to do here in Colorado. North Carolina has latent textile mills that are available. New York has latent paper mills that can be utilized. So there was manufacturing in this country a few years ago, 20 years ago. It left, it's time to bring it back and this plant can help do that. So maybe not in Colorado we won't be making textiles or carpet for example, but in North Carolina they'll be able to do that because of industrial hemp. In New York they'll be able ... New York government put $10 million into their hemp industry to make it a hemp industry. So there's a lot of opportunity for all sides, not just the cannabinoids, but all sides of the plant, and we're learning new plastics, new ways to utilize the cellulose. Sugar, and xylitol, and ethanol. This plant can make a ton of different things. Not just the cannabinoids, but there's other components that we've used for generations.

Seth Adler: Yeah, it can even provide energy. If you've got some questions, start to formulate them now, stick your hands up, and I'll come to ya. If you'd like to ask these guys a question. I'll ask you the following question. As far as December 31, 2018, by the end of this very year, what goal do you have for yourself, or for the industry?

Morris Beegle: To have hemp completely legal and off the Federal schedule. So it's clear. That's what gonna happen.

Seth Adler: That is what's going to happen?

Morris Beegle: That's gonna happen.

Seth Adler: You and your friend Mitch.

Morris Beegle: Me and Mitch. We're gonna sit down, we're gonna do shots of bourbon until we make it happen.

Seth Adler: I mean in all seriousness though, we do have a shot at that with the Senate majority leader actually bringing legislation. You don't know if it's actually gonna happen, you'll believe it when you see it. But to have that happen by the end of this year, is not necessarily a crazy thought.

Seth Adler: Rick, what about your goal for the end of 2018, whether it be for yourself of the industry?

Rick Trojan: I mean the goal is the same, freedom of the plant across the board. So whether that's today, tomorrow, or hopefully not 10 years from now. But again, just educating. The reality is, we need to buy hemp so that we can justify people investing money in decortication and in machinery. Buy hemp, wear it, talk about it. It's a simple ... Just be a conscious consumer. If we start doing that, everyone buys hemp here on a regular basis versus the t-shirts at Walmart of what have you, we can change the industry and we will. Money talks in America, so let's let our money talk.

Seth Adler: Let's let our money talk. Let's let our mouths talk in the meantime. As far as everybody in here knows at least something, continue that conversation with those that don't. That's good advice Rick.

Seth Adler: Any questions from the audience? Any comments from the audience? What would you add to this conversation if anything. Little early here in Colorado, we've got a little bit of shock and awe going on, dealing with some snow outside.

Rick Trojan: Little chilly, that's why I'm in short sleeves.

Seth Adler: So let's actually bring this thing in for a landing. 'Cause we don't have five more minutes. So I would say, my ... Well you know I'm gonna have a final, final question. But my last question before the final question, is your key lesson learned in being in hemp or as long as you have. What is that lesson, and what would you share with the group? That they can maybe learn from you?

Rick Trojan: There's just so much more that we don't know. I mean I have been studying this, and we've been speaking with experts all over the world, and I've learned quite a bit, but there's so much that we don't know and that we're learning. I mean we haven't even identified all the cannabinoids. So it's super exciting. This plant is the most adaptable thing that I've ever seen. All around the world I've seen this plant growing, and it's just absolutely amazing, and the more I know, the more I find out I don't know. So it's just continue to learn and education yourself, and really take the time to find out the real story.

Seth Adler: So I'm just gonna go to the question out there. Yeah, the fact that my body has an endo-cannabinoid system that matches up perfectly with cannabis, is mind blowing.

Seth Adler: Rick, before we get to you, we're gonna go to the question, if you could say your name, where you're from in the world, and stage your question please.

Jessie Uso: Hi, my name is Jessie Uso, I live in Tucson, Arizona, and I'm tryin' to figure out how long you guys think there'll be a viable space for small hemp farms.

Morris Beegle: I think that there's gonna be a viable for small hemp farms for quite sometime. I don't think that big ag is gonna take this thing over anytime soon. I come from the craft and cottage side of philosophy. I love craft beer, I come from the music industry, I worked with lots of Indy labels, and Indy bands, and NoCo, this event has been built on cottage and craft brands and entrepreneurs, and I think that's gonna continue. As long as I'm doin' this, it's gonna focus on the crafts and the cottage.

Seth Adler: And that three to five year prognostication, that's cottage industry. Three to five years more of cottage industry building itself.

Morris Beegle: And you can build a big cottage. We've got New Belgium Brewery right here in Fort Collins. It's a billion dollar craft brewery now. And we've got Oscar Blues, and Dale's Pale Ale, that is almost a billion dollar craft industry, so the cottage can be big.

Seth Adler: Alright, let's go to this question, please state your name, where you're from, and your question.

Brian Wilson: Brian Wilson, I'm from Los Angeles. You talked about how hemp seeds adapt to the environment, is there a risk that a hemp grower can lose his entire crop because it grows hot?

Morris Beegle: Yes.

Rick Trojan: Absolutely, yeah.

Seth Adler: Without question, 100%.

Rick Trojan: That's happened to quite a few of our friends. Even plants that come in from another country, or that are .000% the plant get there and it needs to salvage itself, and sometimes that means the THC goes over the arbitrary limit set by the government.

Seth Adler: Oh last question, we're gonna go rapid fire, please state your name, where you're from, and your question.

Julane Hickson: Julane Hickson, Lamar, Colorado. Throughout the world, which country is the leading in this industry? It seems like there's lots of reinvention, but is there a country throughout the world that's really got the leading edge of production and of manufacturing and using hemp?

Seth Adler: Canada.

Morris Beegle: China.

Seth Adler: What do you guys think?

Rick Trojan: So yeah absolutely there are leading countries. So I think from a textiles' standpoint, China is clearly the leader. From a food and hemp seed oil standpoint, Canada is clearly the leader. We buy 90% of what they grow. From a cannabinoid standpoint, the EU's up there, but really I think the US is leading on the cannabinoid side. And if the government could stay out of our way, we can continue to lead. But there's bioplastics, and all sorts of other things that are happening in Europe and in the Ukraine. Those three or four countries are really what sets apart for this specific sectors of the plant.

Seth Adler: Let's do that piece of advice from Morris. I asked Rick for his. What would yours be for the industry based on your many years in the space?

Morris Beegle: Patience more than anything. You've just gotta be patient and not expect things to happen right away. I was thinking that this industry would be much further along than it is right now, back four, five years ago. But I've learned that it's a long way to the top if you wanna rick and roll.

Seth Adler: There you go.

Morris Beegle: So we all need patience.

Seth Adler: So we end where we began, and that does bring us to the final question which I always ask. Which is, on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's gotta be on there. Rick, it doesn't matter which song you gave me last time, which song would you give me this time?

Rick Trojan: I'm gonna go country, My Next 30 Years, little Time McGraw.

Seth Adler: Okay, Tim McGraw. There is a Tim McGraw in the cannabis space, and it isn't that Tim McGraw.

Rick Trojan: Giddy up.

Seth Adler: Yeah, there you go.

Morris Beegle: Well since I already said Long Way to the Top-

Seth Adler: Yeah, it's gotta be that one.

Morris Beegle: Well, there's that or I'm just gonna say Rock the Nation by Montrose.

Seth Adler: Okay, I wonder where your music interests lies Morris. It's really tough to tell. I'm kidding.

Morris Beegle: I like to rock.

Seth Adler: There you go. And so you might know that patience is also a song right?

Morris Beegle: Yeah, but Guns and Roses and I can't stand Axle Rose.

Seth Adler: Oh you don't like that song?

Morris Beegle: No, I hate it.

Rick Trojan: I was gonna karaoke it for you right now.

Seth Adler: Really? Why do you hate that song I wonder?

Morris Beegle: 'Cause I can't stand Axle, I've seen him in concert several times, and he's one of the biggest dicks ever in the history of the music industry. Him and Ted Nugent should go somewhere.

Seth Adler: That's where we're ... But listen, if he wants to provide capital to the hemp industry, come on in, right?

Morris Beegle: Yup.

Rick Trojan: Bring it Teddy.

Morris Beegle: Yeah, we'll take your money.

Seth Adler: That's it. Alright, Rick Trojan, Morris Beegle, thanks so much. Give 'em a round of applause. Thank you so much gentlemen.

Seth Adler: And there you have Rick Trojan, and Rick Trojan and Morris Beegle. Very much appreciate their time. Very much appreciate your time, stay tuned.

Read the full transcript:

Become a member to access to webinars, quarterly reports, contributor columns, shows, excerpts, and complete podcast transcripts

Become a Member

Already a member? Login here.

Subscribe now to get every episode.

Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.