Ep. 389: Podcastland

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep. 389: Podcastland

Ep. 389: Podcastland

Our host Seth Adler was recently asked to be a guest on MJ Today and the Green Rush. He was also asked to be a panelist at the Cannabis Media Summit. Each was an opportunity for him to take a seat on ‘the other side of the microphone.’ And so we’ve compiled each appearance here in one episode.

Transcript:

Seth Adler: Podcast land.

Seth Adler: Welcome to Cannabis Economy. I'm your host, Seth Adler. Download episodes on canneconomy.com. That's two Ns and the word economy. A lot going on there.

Seth Adler: Now, I was recently asked to be a guest on MJ Today and the Green Rush. I was also asked to be a panelist at the Cannabis Media Summit. Each was an opportunity for me to take a seat on the other side of the microphone. And so I've compiled each appearance here in one episode. Thanks to Kristin Jordan of the Cannabis Media Summit, Lewis Goldberg and Anne Donohoe of the Green Rush, and a very special thanks to Shea Gunther, host of MJ Today Daily and the producer and sometimes host of MJ Today and the guy who conceived of what became of SSDP.

Seth Adler: First a word from our sponsor, and then a whole bunch of me.

Seth Adler: Wanna know with Wana Brands, Nancy, caps.

Nancy Whiteman: Yes. Wana Brand has a really exciting product line with our extended release caps. They come in five formulations, different CBD and THC ratios, but the thing that we really are excited about with them is that they are such a discreet and consistent product for people. They last anywhere from 8 to 12 hours and it's a very consistent experience all the way through, so not a lot of the ups and downs that you get with other forms of ingestion.

Seth Adler: You know that's the ... I'm so excited to sit down with you because we kinda do the same thing, and what's great is that we absolutely also don't do the same thing.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, yep.

Seth Adler: You know? There's Chris, there's Shea, there's Seth, and that's not your ... Once you hear one of their voices, it's not gonna be what the other one does.

Shea Gunther: And I don't think there's a person in the world who's like, "Oh I listen to Seth, exclusively, and not those guys."

Seth Adler: Right. So I can't listen to Shea's daily thing because I'd listen to Seth's weekly thing and Seth's weekly thing, completely different than what Chris does.

Shea Gunther: Yep.

Seth Adler: And there's a rabbit hole there. You know?

Shea Gunther: Oh, totally.

Seth Adler: With the feeds. So it's like, one you go down it-

Shea Gunther: Well, and podcast listeners like to listen to podcasts. You know?

Seth Adler: Absolutely.

Shea Gunther: They're not just finding one and ... So yeah. And it's certainly a growing pool, but it's still relatively small. So-

Seth Adler: And these Green Rush guys?

Shea Gunther: Green Rush, they're awesome.

Seth Adler: Right? Come on.

Shea Gunther: Totally biased there.

Seth Adler: Kumbaya.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, yeah. No, totally lifting boats, we're all small little boats being lifted.

Seth Adler: You're the only guy that's doing a daily that I know of though.

Shea Gunther: Yup.

Seth Adler: Right?

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: I mean that's gotta be a-

Shea Gunther: Well yeah, so Russ Belville, I think used to be a daily publisher.

Seth Adler: Absolutely.

Shea Gunther: So-

Seth Adler: Absolutely.

Shea Gunther: But he's not ... I think he's out of the podcasting game right now.

Seth Adler: Got it. Also though, different-

Shea Gunther: And way different. Yeah, totally. Yeah, he ... Radical Russ. You know? I mean, he's great, but yeah, he's definitely a little bit more ... I'm just a nerdy news guy.

Seth Adler: Right, exactly. There's Tall Shea as opposed to Radical Russ.

Shea Gunther: Exactly.

Seth Adler: But daily, I know that they're not really long episodes, but it is every day. That's gotta be a grind.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, but it's the best grind though. You know? I mean, I've done over 600 episodes. I forget the exact number-

Seth Adler: Sure.

Shea Gunther: Maybe 620 or something, but-

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: So it's the same exact process every single day, but the particulars are different, so it's interesting.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: I'm never bored.

Seth Adler: Sure.

Shea Gunther: It's just ... But the process is beautiful and predictable and I could do it in my sleep.

Seth Adler: Got it.

Shea Gunther: You know, so-

Seth Adler: Wake up, coffee.

Shea Gunther: Wake up at 5:00, headlines, newsletter by 7:00, figure out from the newsletter ones down to the 10 by 8:00, 8:30, writing by 9, recording by 10:00, up by 11:00. That's the ideal. I don't always hit that, sometimes by noon, but yeah. But that's the-

Seth Adler: What have you ... 'Cause you started doin' daily, what would it be? How many-

Shea Gunther: Two and a half years ago.

Seth Adler: Two and a half years ago. It's so funny cause I was gonna say a year and a half 'cause cannabis years are dog years.

Shea Gunther: Oh yeah, totally.

Seth Adler: And sometimes it feels like it was recent but it really wasn't. But what have you noticed, I guess in six months segments, these past six months, how different are those dailies from the first six months? Beyond your process and beyond you just getting better at it. I mean the news itself.

Shea Gunther: The news itself. Wow, everything's speeding up. Everywhere.

Seth Adler: Right, yeah.

Shea Gunther: I mean it's a little crazy that every single day there's 40 to 60 relevant headlines that I find every single day.

Seth Adler: Actually relevant.

Shea Gunther: And I do that Monday through Saturday.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Yeah! And not like. "Some guy got busted with 14 pounds on K Street," you know? It's, "These two companies merged," or ... There's so much going on.

Seth Adler: Yeah, yeah.

Shea Gunther: And I mean that was definitely the case when we started, but with all the states coming online and everything, the industry's just speeding up.

Seth Adler: I think also the news is bigger maybe, because you've got-

Shea Gunther: Yup, yeah. Well there's hundred million dollar deals all the time.

Seth Adler: Exactly.

Shea Gunther: My reader and I are like, "Ah 27? Man, that's not news. Come on. Come back to me when we add another zero," whereas a few years ago like, "$27 million in legal-"

Seth Adler: Couldn't even ... Yeah, exactly.

Shea Gunther: I mean my first conference was Arcview conference outside of Boston, four years ago. Like not that long ago. And the trade show for ... I'm doing air quotes ... Was a small hotel convention room and I was like, "Holy shit. There are booths. Someone made a poster for a legal marijuana company."

Seth Adler: Right, exactly.

Shea Gunther: That's what I was blown away by. And now this place here, it takes more than an hour to walk by all the booths. Last year, it took me an hour to casually stroll by every single one.

Seth Adler: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, first year in Vegas was obviously big, but nowhere near this size. Right? I think we have to say we're at MJBizCon-

Shea Gunther: We are. Oh yes.

Seth Adler: On Podcast Row, right?

Shea Gunther: We're on ... Exactly. Love it. This has always felt the same size.

Seth Adler: To you.

Shea Gunther: To me, yeah. The first year I was like, "Holy ... " It's just big. It's like big Vegas. And so even though it's definitely ... Well I think, actually now that ... The difference, I think, the Rio is split up into two big spaces.

Seth Adler: That's true, too.

Shea Gunther: I think that was a jump. When we came to the convention center, it was all once space. That was like, "Oh my god." 'Cause I don't know if you went, there was a place on the trade show floor last year where you could get elevated and kinda see the whole floor.

Seth Adler: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shea Gunther: And not elevated like the industry usually gets elevated.

Seth Adler: That would be up to you. Yeah, exactly.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. But no, they'll actually put you 30 feet up, yeah.

Seth Adler: [crosstalk 00:06:43] to physically elevate, yeah.

Shea Gunther: And it was just the scale of it, was just ... Holy wow.

Seth Adler: So your SSDP days. Right?

Shea Gunther: Yep.

Seth Adler: All the way back then.

Shea Gunther: Yep. '97.

Seth Adler: Just legalize it, is what I think ... Sensible policies, and let's just try to get out of our own way, here.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, well I-

Seth Adler: 11 years later, do you believe this from putting on your 1997 hat?

Shea Gunther: 11 years? '97 was a few more than 11 years ago. Feels like it was 11.

Seth Adler: Well, I'm not good at math.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, I know. Well it's like ... No, it feels like it was five years ago.

Seth Adler: That's what I feel like, so I-

Shea Gunther: Yeah, yeah. Two years ago. But no, it was 20 years ago!

Seth Adler: 21 years ago, yeah.

Shea Gunther: 21 years ago, 24% of Americans thought marijuana should be legal.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: And now it's 60%, 60% plus.

Seth Adler: Yeah, 66%.

Shea Gunther: So yeah. That's what it is, yeah. It's 66%, yeah. [inaudible 00:07:40]. And medical, it's 95%.

Seth Adler: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Shea Gunther: There's no ... What issue do 95% of Americans agree on about anything?

Seth Adler: No. Breathing.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. Not punching kids in the face.

Seth Adler: I don't know if you got 95% on that. 90% plus, maybe.

Shea Gunther: This is true. You might get ... Yeah, maybe 94%, yeah. Some parts of this country, shit. Maybe don't kick babies.

Seth Adler: Don't kick babies.

Shea Gunther: I bet, "No, don't kick babies," gets at least 95%.

Seth Adler: There's gotta be a website for kicking babies. Not that we should look for that,

Shea Gunther: Yeah. There's a website for everything.

Seth Adler: Yeah. So it's a totally different world, right?

Shea Gunther: Totally different world, yeah. I mean, everyone thought I was crazy. I mean, people who thought marijuana should be legal, but people're like, "What? That's crazy."

Seth Adler: Why did you care about it?

Shea Gunther: So I was a big giant nerd in high school and bought the whole DARE thing. You know? The DARE lion, that marijuana would kill you, it would do ... Just, drugs were bad. Okay? I bought that. And when I went to college, there were some guys in my dorm room floor who asked me, they were like, "Hey, wanna go smoke pot in the woods," like college freshman do.

Seth Adler: Sure.

Shea Gunther: And still being a nerd, I went and did some research to see if I was actually gonna ruin my life by going and smoking pot, and I discovered that all of it was a bullshit lie. And I have super big problems with authority, especially authority that ... If you're lying to me and you're an authority figure? Oh, that makes me so mad.

Seth Adler: Yeah. I didn't like you to begin with, what with the rules and all.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. But now you're lying to me? Like [inaudible 00:09:12] that. So when I ... That was my freshman year. I transferred schools the next year, and honestly, I was the Rochester Institute of Technology, and I didn't know anyone. And so half of it was like, "I'm so mad about this marijuana prohibition and I wanna end it," and half was like, "I kinda wanna meet some other cool kids on campus." So I hand drew this poster up, and it said, "Do you feel that ... " I forget. What does it say? I forget the exact wording, but it was basically like, "Do you think pot should be legal? Come and meet here Friday at 4:20."

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: And 25 kids showed up.

Seth Adler: First time?

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: That's pretty good.

Shea Gunther: Including Kris Lotlikar.

Seth Adler: Look at that.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, host of Marijuana Today. And if you don't know Kris Lotlikar, he's 6'7" and-

Seth Adler: Even taller.

Shea Gunther: He's tall, yeah. He's tall. He's too tall. But at the time, he was still 6'7". He was probably 40 pounds lighter. Real thin. He had terrible dreadlocks. Terrible white guy dreadlocks, just ... I still make fun of him for it. But he came into the room and I was like, "Oh, wow. That guy's tall." And he ended up being one of the officers, one of the most productive members of the group. And that group, we were the Rochester Cannabis Coalition. That was the name of our group. That turned into the first chapter of Students for Sensible Drug Policies. So the next year, there was the name change.

Seth Adler: Crazy.

Shea Gunther: And then from there, Kris Lotlikar went to Washington, DC, and then chapters sprung up in ... I think it was UMass Amherst, Georgetown, maybe SUNY New Paltz was the first year. RIT. There was four or five founding colleges. And I think I'm probably forgetting one or two, so apologies, any SSDP peers from those schools. Hampshire College?

Seth Adler: Right.

Shea Gunther: Definitely Hampshire College in Amherst.

Seth Adler: Got it.

Shea Gunther: So yeah. And then it just took off.

Seth Adler: Exactly. And Betty's doin' a great job with it now. Betty Aldworth.

Shea Gunther: Oh yeah. Betty's awesome.

Seth Adler: I wonder, when you meet kinda new SSDPers, folks that are still on campus or just coming out, versus that initial kinda group of folks, what's the initial difference that you see between today's SSDP and kinda the initial run?

Seth Adler: Podcast land.

Seth Adler: Welcome to Cannabis Economy. I'm your host, Seth Adler. Download episodes on canneconomy.com. That's two Ns and the word economy. A lot going on there.

Seth Adler: Now, I was recently asked to be a guest on MJ Today and the Green Rush. I was also asked to be a panelist at the Cannabis Media Summit. Each was an opportunity for me to take a seat on the other side of the microphone. And so I've compiled each appearance here in one episode. Thanks to Kristin Jordan of the Cannabis Media Summit, Lewis Goldberg and Anne Donohoe of the Green Rush, and a very special thanks to Shea Gunther, host of MJ Today Daily and the producer and sometimes host of MJ Today and the guy who conceived of what became of SSDP.

Seth Adler: First a word from our sponsor, and then a whole bunch of me.

Seth Adler: Wanna know with Wana Brands, Nancy, caps.

Nancy Whiteman: Yes. Wana Brand has a really exciting product line with our extended release caps. They come in five formulations, different CBD and THC ratios, but the thing that we really are excited about with them is that they are such a discreet and consistent product for people. They last anywhere from 8 to 12 hours and it's a very consistent experience all the way through, so not a lot of the ups and downs that you get with other forms of ingestion.

Seth Adler: You know that's the ... I'm so excited to sit down with you because we kinda do the same thing, and what's great is that we absolutely also don't do the same thing.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, yep.

Seth Adler: You know? There's Chris, there's Shea, there's Seth, and that's not your ... Once you hear one of their voices, it's not gonna be what the other one does.

Shea Gunther: And I don't think there's a person in the world who's like, "Oh I listen to Seth, exclusively, and not those guys."

Seth Adler: Right. So I can't listen to Shea's daily thing because I'd listen to Seth's weekly thing and Seth's weekly thing, completely different than what Chris does.

Shea Gunther: Yep.

Seth Adler: And there's a rabbit hole there. You know?

Shea Gunther: Oh, totally.

Seth Adler: With the feeds. So it's like, one you go down it-

Shea Gunther: Well, and podcast listeners like to listen to podcasts. You know?

Seth Adler: Absolutely.

Shea Gunther: They're not just finding one and ... So yeah. And it's certainly a growing pool, but it's still relatively small. So-

Seth Adler: And these Green Rush guys?

Shea Gunther: Green Rush, they're awesome.

Seth Adler: Right? Come on.

Shea Gunther: Totally biased there.

Seth Adler: Kumbaya.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, yeah. No, totally lifting boats, we're all small little boats being lifted.

Seth Adler: You're the only guy that's doing a daily that I know of though.

Shea Gunther: Yup.

Seth Adler: Right?

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: I mean that's gotta be a-

Shea Gunther: Well yeah, so Russ Belville, I think used to be a daily publisher.

Seth Adler: Absolutely.

Shea Gunther: So-

Seth Adler: Absolutely.

Shea Gunther: But he's not ... I think he's out of the podcasting game right now.

Seth Adler: Got it. Also though, different-

Shea Gunther: And way different. Yeah, totally. Yeah, he ... Radical Russ. You know? I mean, he's great, but yeah, he's definitely a little bit more ... I'm just a nerdy news guy.

Seth Adler: Right, exactly. There's Tall Shea as opposed to Radical Russ.

Shea Gunther: Exactly.

Seth Adler: But daily, I know that they're not really long episodes, but it is every day. That's gotta be a grind.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, but it's the best grind though. You know? I mean, I've done over 600 episodes. I forget the exact number-

Seth Adler: Sure.

Shea Gunther: Maybe 620 or something, but-

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: So it's the same exact process every single day, but the particulars are different, so it's interesting.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: I'm never bored.

Seth Adler: Sure.

Shea Gunther: It's just ... But the process is beautiful and predictable and I could do it in my sleep.

Seth Adler: Got it.

Shea Gunther: You know, so-

Seth Adler: Wake up, coffee.

Shea Gunther: Wake up at 5:00, headlines, newsletter by 7:00, figure out from the newsletter ones down to the 10 by 8:00, 8:30, writing by 9, recording by 10:00, up by 11:00. That's the ideal. I don't always hit that, sometimes by noon, but yeah. But that's the-

Seth Adler: What have you ... 'Cause you started doin' daily, what would it be? How many-

Shea Gunther: Two and a half years ago.

Seth Adler: Two and a half years ago. It's so funny cause I was gonna say a year and a half 'cause cannabis years are dog years.

Shea Gunther: Oh yeah, totally.

Seth Adler: And sometimes it feels like it was recent but it really wasn't. But what have you noticed, I guess in six months segments, these past six months, how different are those dailies from the first six months? Beyond your process and beyond you just getting better at it. I mean the news itself.

Shea Gunther: The news itself. Wow, everything's speeding up. Everywhere.

Seth Adler: Right, yeah.

Shea Gunther: I mean it's a little crazy that every single day there's 40 to 60 relevant headlines that I find every single day.

Seth Adler: Actually relevant.

Shea Gunther: And I do that Monday through Saturday.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Yeah! And not like. "Some guy got busted with 14 pounds on K Street," you know? It's, "These two companies merged," or ... There's so much going on.

Seth Adler: Yeah, yeah.

Shea Gunther: And I mean that was definitely the case when we started, but with all the states coming online and everything, the industry's just speeding up.

Seth Adler: I think also the news is bigger maybe, because you've got-

Shea Gunther: Yup, yeah. Well there's hundred million dollar deals all the time.

Seth Adler: Exactly.

Shea Gunther: My reader and I are like, "Ah 27? Man, that's not news. Come on. Come back to me when we add another zero," whereas a few years ago like, "$27 million in legal-"

Seth Adler: Couldn't even ... Yeah, exactly.

Shea Gunther: I mean my first conference was Arcview conference outside of Boston, four years ago. Like not that long ago. And the trade show for ... I'm doing air quotes ... Was a small hotel convention room and I was like, "Holy shit. There are booths. Someone made a poster for a legal marijuana company."

Seth Adler: Right, exactly.

Shea Gunther: That's what I was blown away by. And now this place here, it takes more than an hour to walk by all the booths. Last year, it took me an hour to casually stroll by every single one.

Seth Adler: Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, first year in Vegas was obviously big, but nowhere near this size. Right? I think we have to say we're at MJBizCon-

Shea Gunther: We are. Oh yes.

Seth Adler: On Podcast Row, right?

Shea Gunther: We're on ... Exactly. Love it. This has always felt the same size.

Seth Adler: To you.

Shea Gunther: To me, yeah. The first year I was like, "Holy ... " It's just big. It's like big Vegas. And so even though it's definitely ... Well I think, actually now that ... The difference, I think, the Rio is split up into two big spaces.

Seth Adler: That's true, too.

Shea Gunther: I think that was a jump. When we came to the convention center, it was all once space. That was like, "Oh my god." 'Cause I don't know if you went, there was a place on the trade show floor last year where you could get elevated and kinda see the whole floor.

Seth Adler: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Shea Gunther: And not elevated like the industry usually gets elevated.

Seth Adler: That would be up to you. Yeah, exactly.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. But no, they'll actually put you 30 feet up, yeah.

Seth Adler: [crosstalk 00:06:43] to physically elevate, yeah.

Shea Gunther: And it was just the scale of it, was just ... Holy wow.

Seth Adler: So your SSDP days. Right?

Shea Gunther: Yep.

Seth Adler: All the way back then.

Shea Gunther: Yep. '97.

Seth Adler: Just legalize it, is what I think ... Sensible policies, and let's just try to get out of our own way, here.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, well I-

Seth Adler: 11 years later, do you believe this from putting on your 1997 hat?

Shea Gunther: 11 years? '97 was a few more than 11 years ago. Feels like it was 11.

Seth Adler: Well, I'm not good at math.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, I know. Well it's like ... No, it feels like it was five years ago.

Seth Adler: That's what I feel like, so I-

Shea Gunther: Yeah, yeah. Two years ago. But no, it was 20 years ago!

Seth Adler: 21 years ago, yeah.

Shea Gunther: 21 years ago, 24% of Americans thought marijuana should be legal.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: And now it's 60%, 60% plus.

Seth Adler: Yeah, 66%.

Shea Gunther: So yeah. That's what it is, yeah. It's 66%, yeah. [inaudible 00:07:40]. And medical, it's 95%.

Seth Adler: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Shea Gunther: There's no ... What issue do 95% of Americans agree on about anything?

Seth Adler: No. Breathing.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. Not punching kids in the face.

Seth Adler: I don't know if you got 95% on that. 90% plus, maybe.

Shea Gunther: This is true. You might get ... Yeah, maybe 94%, yeah. Some parts of this country, shit. Maybe don't kick babies.

Seth Adler: Don't kick babies.

Shea Gunther: I bet, "No, don't kick babies," gets at least 95%.

Seth Adler: There's gotta be a website for kicking babies. Not that we should look for that,

Shea Gunther: Yeah. There's a website for everything.

Seth Adler: Yeah. So it's a totally different world, right?

Shea Gunther: Totally different world, yeah. I mean, everyone thought I was crazy. I mean, people who thought marijuana should be legal, but people're like, "What? That's crazy."

Seth Adler: Why did you care about it?

Shea Gunther: So I was a big giant nerd in high school and bought the whole DARE thing. You know? The DARE lion, that marijuana would kill you, it would do ... Just, drugs were bad. Okay? I bought that. And when I went to college, there were some guys in my dorm room floor who asked me, they were like, "Hey, wanna go smoke pot in the woods," like college freshman do.

Seth Adler: Sure.

Shea Gunther: And still being a nerd, I went and did some research to see if I was actually gonna ruin my life by going and smoking pot, and I discovered that all of it was a bullshit lie. And I have super big problems with authority, especially authority that ... If you're lying to me and you're an authority figure? Oh, that makes me so mad.

Seth Adler: Yeah. I didn't like you to begin with, what with the rules and all.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. But now you're lying to me? Like [inaudible 00:09:12] that. So when I ... That was my freshman year. I transferred schools the next year, and honestly, I was the Rochester Institute of Technology, and I didn't know anyone. And so half of it was like, "I'm so mad about this marijuana prohibition and I wanna end it," and half was like, "I kinda wanna meet some other cool kids on campus." So I hand drew this poster up, and it said, "Do you feel that ... " I forget. What does it say? I forget the exact wording, but it was basically like, "Do you think pot should be legal? Come and meet here Friday at 4:20."

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: And 25 kids showed up.

Seth Adler: First time?

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: That's pretty good.

Shea Gunther: Including Kris Lotlikar.

Seth Adler: Look at that.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, host of Marijuana Today. And if you don't know Kris Lotlikar, he's 6'7" and-

Seth Adler: Even taller.

Shea Gunther: He's tall, yeah. He's tall. He's too tall. But at the time, he was still 6'7". He was probably 40 pounds lighter. Real thin. He had terrible dreadlocks. Terrible white guy dreadlocks, just ... I still make fun of him for it. But he came into the room and I was like, "Oh, wow. That guy's tall." And he ended up being one of the officers, one of the most productive members of the group. And that group, we were the Rochester Cannabis Coalition. That was the name of our group. That turned into the first chapter of Students for Sensible Drug Policies. So the next year, there was the name change.

Seth Adler: Crazy.

Shea Gunther: And then from there, Kris Lotlikar went to Washington, DC, and then chapters sprung up in ... I think it was UMass Amherst, Georgetown, maybe SUNY New Paltz was the first year. RIT. There was four or five founding colleges. And I think I'm probably forgetting one or two, so apologies, any SSDP peers from those schools. Hampshire College?

Seth Adler: Right.

Shea Gunther: Definitely Hampshire College in Amherst.

Seth Adler: Got it.

Shea Gunther: So yeah. And then it just took off.

Seth Adler: Exactly. And Betty's doin' a great job with it now. Betty Aldworth.

Shea Gunther: Oh yeah. Betty's awesome.

Seth Adler: I wonder, when you meet kinda new SSDPers, folks that are still on campus or just coming out, versus that initial kinda group of folks, what's the initial difference that you see between today's SSDP and kinda the initial run?

Shea Gunther: I don't know that there is much.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Shea Gunther: I mean, SSDP has always attracted super passionate kids who think that they can actually fix stuff.

Seth Adler: Right.

Shea Gunther: And that's an awesome thing. And those are the people who took this little thing that I started and blew it up into what it is, and they're the same kids now.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, I mean ... Yeah. They're just some of the most productive people ever. And SSDP alumni go out and do awesome things. So it's a activist and ... What SSDP does, is it churns out people that, even if they go into business, they're still activists.

Seth Adler: Right. Well that's Kris Krane, that's Troy Dayton, that's-

Shea Gunther: Yeah, exactly. That's the model.

Seth Adler: Exactly.

Shea Gunther: Exactly, yeah.

Seth Adler: What is different now, though, is that it was reform. You know? And it still is reform, of course. Right? So we're never out of the woods. But now, it's also big business. So I guess what I'm wondering is-

Shea Gunther: Oh, I mean the world is definitely way different. Yeah, yeah.

Seth Adler: Well I'm sayin' for them, because the industry needs that group of people to now also be kinda truly business-minded, where it was definitely activism and advocacy and organized and makin' sure to run an organization, but now it's with ... Capitalism has to be part of it.

Shea Gunther: But that has also been one of the driving factors for reform. So there's definitely been a, not always smooth relationship, but where there's money coming from the industry now, funding reform efforts.

Seth Adler: Right, yeah.

Shea Gunther: Because smart business people should recognize that when they give money to activists, it opens up new markets for them.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: It does a lot of good stuff too, which you should be feeling good about, but ultimately, if you're a capitalist, it opens up markets. When a state comes online, there's billions of dollars in business opportunity that are there.

Seth Adler: Speaking of states coming online, what tea leaves are you reading for ... Podcast Land knows no time. That's what I like to say. But going into 2019, do you have expectations of any kind? Do you have prognostications?

Shea Gunther: I don't like to get in that game.

Seth Adler: Fair enough.

Shea Gunther: I just report on what happens.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Shea Gunther: I leave that to the Marijuana Today guys.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, I don't know. I mean everything's just gonna be interesting, how things develop. Just from the election shakeout, that's always an interesting story, how actually implementation rolls out following elections.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: So I mean, Michigan is gonna be a super interesting story. Michigan's interesting because it has one of the largest patient populations. It's like no one thinks of Michigan.

Seth Adler: right.

Shea Gunther: You know? But they have, it's 300,000 registered patients. Which, I think, is about as many are in Canada.

Seth Adler: Yeah. It's sizeable.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. And adult use is just gonna be huge.

Seth Adler: Yeah. And those patients have trudged their way through. Those operators have trudged their way through.

Shea Gunther: Oh, they have fought their way, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Seth Adler: For real. Just get knocked down, dust yourself off, get up again, go.

Shea Gunther: Well and then the state is ... They've had this bouncing deadline for businesses to be licensed or shut down, and it's just ridiculous. It was in June, and then it was September, and then December, and then they're like, "Nope! October 31st." And then a judge was like, "Nope! That was dumb." And then now it's just up in the air.

Seth Adler: You're talking about Massachusetts?

Shea Gunther: No, Michigan.

Seth Adler: I know, I know. It's a Massachusetts joke.

Shea Gunther: Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, oh yeah.

Seth Adler: Poking fun at moving deadlines.

Shea Gunther: Exactly, yeah. Yep. Yeah and if it was Massachusets, it'd be nine years.

Seth Adler: What's your most interesting state? Which one-

Shea Gunther: Wait. Before I-

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: I don't want to ... Shaleen Title, if you're listening, I'm sorry. Massachusetts is actually ... I would say that the adult use is, I would say ... It is my opinion that the adult use process is actually going pretty smoothly.

Seth Adler: No, of course.

Shea Gunther: Medical definitely was, and the state in general is known for that morass, yes.

Seth Adler: Without question. And so any slowdown is not gonna be Shaleen's-

Shea Gunther: No, I-

Seth Adler: Yeah, that's not gonna be that.

Shea Gunther: I don't wanna put down Shaleen, here.

Seth Adler: No, she's a great commissioner.

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: How great is that, by the way?

Shea Gunther: It's crazy.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Well, I mean it's crazy 'cause I look at our list of regulars, I'm like, "Holy ... " These are just all my friends. You know?

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: And they were like ... Shaleen's a commissioner, a state commissioner. She's one of the most powerful people in marijuana. There are other people. Kris Krane is one of those ... There's all these people that're the most whatever in marijuana. You know?

Seth Adler: Runnin' a pretty big company.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Seth Adler: Right, yeah.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, that's been super fun. Just to see everyone do really amazing things.

Seth Adler: Absolutely.

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: So I'd said the ... Your favorite state for me, California. I just don't understand why newer states don't just look at Colorado and say ... Potentially, with the exception of external investment, just do-

Shea Gunther: They really did get a lot of things right.

Seth Adler: Just do that!

Shea Gunther: And have refined into a system that is working, yeah.

Seth Adler: Why not just do that? I mean, you know-

Shea Gunther: Well, because the people making laws don't really understand what's going on.

Seth Adler: Well, we've gotta do it our way. Right?

Shea Gunther: Yeah, yeah. There's definitely that. And then there's just so many voices at the table at all these states, that it just ... Yeah. I mean, but what good. Because we get to see how all these different systems work.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: And eventually, things are gonna merge into working systems.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, so there's a lot of news in the messy chaos.

Seth Adler: So what're your favorite headlines recently?

Shea Gunther: You know what? My mind is like-

Seth Adler: Mush.

Shea Gunther: No, no. You know what it is? It's like I have just RAM access for news. I read it, I process it, I get it out, and then it's gone. Specific headlines, I feel like I can't even recall what I read.

Seth Adler: I gotcha.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. I can talk about stuff at the broader level, but then I'm just like, "What happened today? Ah, I don't ... Let me check my newsletter." Like, "Let me read that."

Seth Adler: Your RAM analogy, you're proving your nerd bonafide days.

Shea Gunther: Oh yeah. Yeah, it's totally just ... Wipe.

Shea Gunther: So you became a marijuana podcaster because you wanted to learn about marijuana. Right? Or the industry?

Seth Adler: Kind of.

Shea Gunther: 'Cause that's the smartest thing you can do.

Seth Adler: Yeah. Kind of. I've always been a person that brings people together around content. So on my college campus, I ran the theater instead of being an actor.

Shea Gunther: Okay.

Seth Adler: I was like, "I'll just run the place. Let's just see what we can do there. Have some fun."

Shea Gunther: Yep.

Seth Adler: Then I worked for Ringling Brothers, Barnum & Bailey.

Shea Gunther: Okay.

Seth Adler: Before I knew about animal rights, I guess.

Shea Gunther: Good. Good disclaimer, love that.

Seth Adler: Kinda found out about that on the job.

Shea Gunther: [inaudible 00:18:40]

Seth Adler: Yeah, yeah. Then I started to work in [inaudible 00:18:41] kinda business conferences, and that job makes you realize new industries.

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: And so when the vote happened in 2012, and it passed, "Okay, wait a second. I gotta pay attention, here." So since January 1st, 2013, I've been researching and trying to figure out what is this? I realized, "Oh my god, there's an entire economy around medical marijuana." I did not know that. I was on my campus a little bit earlier than you, and just enjoying the plant, as you do, in the woods. That's a great day to do it, by the way. And Ithaca is gorgeous, by the way.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, yep. Okay.

Seth Adler: And so really had that relationship with the plant and the fact that it was actually happening, I thought to myself, "Oh my god, let's do this." But I did find out about medical marijuana at that time. And since I've found out about the actual possibilities within the plant, it has become my mission to just absolutely be a part of the information flow as much as I can, to just get truth out there. You know? You say you don't like people lying to-

Shea Gunther: Yeah, you're a content producers.

Seth Adler: Yeah. But just get truth out there, specifically for this plant. Because this is a thing that people don't understand, and it is remarkable what the potential is, what the possibilities are, as far as wellness is concerned. And then now, as far as economic opportunity is concerned. I really see the cannabis industry as the solution to Main Street, USA. If you add in industrial hemp, think about the number of jobs that can just come to any community, no matter where it is. And those jobs have to stay there based on the fact that we gotta produce it. So when you're talking about what the plant can do for somebody that is hurting, medically, and when you talk about what the plant can do for somebody that's hurting economically, that's why. That's why I started doin' it, and that's why I'll never stop, no matter what.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. It's just such a no brainer. Well, and it's funny. The whole, hemp can save the word thing. It can. It can.

Seth Adler: Can, yeah.

Shea Gunther: [crosstalk 00:21:15] yeah.

Seth Adler: Well that's-

Shea Gunther: I mean, it's a cliché and a it's a joke, but it's also kinda true.

Seth Adler: And that's what I've been starting to talk to the business folks, 'cause I ... Three kind of focus areas, business, governance, and science. And for this business folks, I'm starting to talk to them and say, "You are a cannabis operator. You are the closest thing to someone that could solve hemp, the hemp industry, as we have." And every person that I speak to, based on the pace of change that we talked about earlier says, "I just have to focus on this. I can't reinvent the wheel again in terms of industrial hemp." But that'll come. I guess we'll have to get a whole new set of entrepreneurs. I know that there're a bunch out there already.

Shea Gunther: Well, I mean economic opportunity fosters that. I mean, if someone can make a buck on something, they're gonna try to-

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: They'll do their R&D on it.

Seth Adler: And there are heavier or higher barriers to entry, as far as industrial hemp, because you've got establish industries that hemp now needs to break into.

Shea Gunther: Yep.

Seth Adler: Which is what brought us to prohibition in the first place, isn't it?

Shea Gunther: Yeah. But I mean, that's one of the beautiful things about capitalism, is that will get chiseled away. If someone can save a penny on it, then that's eventually gonna break down any kind of barrier, eventually.

Seth Adler: You know what we need? decorticators. We need a ton of decorticators all over this land. So I wanna kinda-

Shea Gunther: Spread 'em around.

Seth Adler: Yeah, I wanna update Woody Guthrie's-

Shea Gunther: One in each community.

Seth Adler: Indeed.

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: A decorticator. You get a decorticator. You get a decorticator. No, because that's how we can process the hemp, and then all of a sudden we got t-shirts and paper and whatever else.

Shea Gunther: Everything.

Seth Adler: Fuel.

Shea Gunther: Everything.

Seth Adler: Hempcrete.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, hemp's kind of blown up. And then just the whole CBD thing.

Seth Adler: Yeah, I'm not even ... That's exactly ... It's amazing what the potential is. I really do think ... We talked about the size of this industry show, and the industry in general, and the money that's in it, and this just feels like only the tip of the iceberg, here. We're only talking about cannabis being used in one way, really.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. Well I mean, it's gonna be a hundreds of billion dollar industry. It's-

Seth Adler: You know what they said yesterday? Trillions of dollars in the next 30 years.

Shea Gunther: In the US, someone said that?

Seth Adler: in North America.

Shea Gunther: North America, okay.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Seth Adler: And then the rest of the globe ... By the way, 2019-

Shea Gunther: Oh, it's totally ... I mean once all the prohibitionary bullshit falls ... I mean, everywhere.

Seth Adler: I think that 2019 is that year for the rest of the world. G7 Nation, Canada goes ahead and legalizes everything. Fantastic, thank you very much. Now, check out the rest of the world in 2019.

Shea Gunther: Yep.

Seth Adler: And so it's, can we, the United States of America, get out of our own way?

Shea Gunther: Yeah. I mean, geeze that's a big question. It's an hour long discussion up there.

Seth Adler: Actually, if you're running a cable news channel, it's 24 hours.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, 24 hours.

Seth Adler: Every single day.

Shea Gunther: With nine people in the panel.

Seth Adler: At least.

Shea Gunther: Outdo our show [inaudible 00:24:35]. Yeah.

Seth Adler: So do you still love doin' it even though it's a grind? Or you don't even see it as a grind, do you?

Shea Gunther: No, no. It's totally not a grind. It's the best thing ever. I mean I've created this job to be exactly what I wanna do, what I'm good at, what I can do.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, and it's growing. I'm producing the Green Rush podcast. I'm doing a new show with the folks at Simplifya. 2019, this time next year, I hope to have at least three or four more shows in our stable.

Seth Adler: Wow.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. I'm buildin' a little podcasting company.

Seth Adler: There we go.

Shea Gunther: I've always wanted to build a media company and I've always been involved with media, but this is my first time where I own a working media company. So it's exciting.

Seth Adler: Good. Good for you.

Shea Gunther: And I starved for two years, and now I'm not starving.

Seth Adler: You fed the cats though, right? At least.

Shea Gunther: Oh, yeah.

Seth Adler: And the children.

Shea Gunther: The cats and the kids were always fed.

Seth Adler: Right.

Shea Gunther: Sometimes I was a little bit hungry, but it's alright. I kept my figure.

Seth Adler: Exactly. That's what's important, isn't it?

Shea Gunther: Yeah. Well I mean, if you don't starve, you don't have an interesting story to tell on podcasts.

Seth Adler: No. Yeah, that's true. Absolutely. And I have, for this whole time, this has been the other thing. So does that change? We'll. But I'm with you, there. This is ... I don't think you were in it for the money, I certainly am not in it for the money. I just have to do it. You know?

Shea Gunther: Well, so I'm in it for the money 'cause I wanna make a whole lot of money, but also I'm just driven to do this.

Seth Adler: Right.

Shea Gunther: I would be doing this if someone wasn't paying me. All my life I've read, on average, a couple hundred headlines every single day since I was 18. And then, [inaudible 00:26:35] of people, they're like, "This news would interest you," that's just what I do. So yeah. Yeah, it's good to be in it for all the reasons.

Seth Adler: Indeed.

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: Indeed.

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: so what do you do besides podcasting?

Seth Adler: So I do podcasting besides podcasting.

Shea Gunther: Okay, and you're ... Yeah, we were talking last night, and you were telling me about your AI podcast. Right?

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Okay. So those are your two things.

Seth Adler: Yeah, and then I have a couple of other podcasts as well, but those are all related.

Shea Gunther: Nice.

Seth Adler: So the B2BiQ podcast network houses the AI and intelligent automation network, which is focused on global corporate enterprise.

Shea Gunther: Okay.

Seth Adler: Use of artificial intelligence.

Shea Gunther: Okay.

Seth Adler: And so my thinking there is, if it's gonna happen, let me kinda be there and know what's happening. And so-

Shea Gunther: Yeah, you picked two good industries.

Seth Adler: Indeed, yeah. Absolutely. And then I do some ... There's a CX Network for customer experience, and then there's a Process Excellence Network and SSON, which is global business services, which is where outsourcing kinda came from. But that all kinda comes together in intelligent automation. What're those companies, the biggest companies in all of the land, what are they doing to intelligently automate HQ? We went through automating the manufacturing floor, now we're automating every other floor.

Shea Gunther: So can I tell you that that stuff scares the shit out of me?

Seth Adler: It's very scary, yeah.

Shea Gunther: On a serious level where I'm just like ... Yeah, humans are not good at regulating ourselves on a mass.

Seth Adler: At all, at all.

Shea Gunther: And if there's profit, then there's no hope at all. And there's a lot of profit in taking humans out of the picture all over the place.

Seth Adler: By definition.

Shea Gunther: And it's not gonna be the case like the past where, "Oh, horses went out, but now people are building steam engines." There's not gonna be that replacement. There might be one job for every 20 you lose. And it's also gonna be ubiquitous. It's gonna be across the board. It's gonna be accountants, it's gonna be lawyers. Eventually it's gonna be doctors. It's gonna be writers and software programmers. Eventually, the AI's just gonna get good at all the things, and what are we gonna do? We are not the kinda people who can legislate universal income and build-

Seth Adler: Well that's it.

Shea Gunther: It's gonna be, "No, you didn't get it, so you don't deserve it, so starve."

Seth Adler: Well so I have slightly better-

Shea Gunther: Ah!

Seth Adler: Yeah, nice-

Shea Gunther: That stuff keeps me awake ... It doesn't keep me awake at night. I sleep fine. But it keeps me thinking through the day.

Seth Adler: I have a slightly more positive outlook than that, as far as timeline is concerned.

Shea Gunther: Okay.

Seth Adler: Okay?

Shea Gunther: So our grandkids are fucked.

Seth Adler: Well, certainly. But there was never a question about that.

Shea Gunther: That's true, that's true. Right now. Yeah, climate wise.

Seth Adler: But as far as the kind of ... If you don't have a college degree and if you aren't kind of programming right now, if you're not in that type of mindset, that's not great. So if you drive a truck for a living, that's not great. If your job is mostly repetitive tasks, that's not great. Those jobs, I don't know what happens with those jobs.

Shea Gunther: That's 30% of the country.

Seth Adler: Oh, totally. Totally, totally. Up from there-

Shea Gunther: Just truck drivers. Truck drivers, I think the exact percent, but it's a crazy amount of people are truck drivers.

Seth Adler: Totally. Up from there, you've got these folks, kinda lower level people in corporate enterprise that kinda don't do things much more than repetitive tasks. Those jobs are not gonna be retained. So once they upscale those workers out of those jobs, they're not gonna go ahead and fill those again. Lawyers and accountants and traders, they'll find a way to kinda rediscover economies which include AI. So that's the new jobs.

Shea Gunther: I'm gonna push back on that, because-

Seth Adler: Well for the [crosstalk 00:31:04], this is my timeline.

Shea Gunther: okay, okay.

Seth Adler: So there's gonna be an explosion of jobs around artificial intelligence over the next 10, 15, 20, 25 years.

Shea Gunther: Well I just see, specifically looking at lawyers-

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Again, I forget the percentage, but a lot of the lawyer work that is done is in discovery.

Seth Adler: Yes.

Shea Gunther: It's reading through stuff and finding stuff.

Seth Adler: And this is perfect for AI.

Shea Gunther: And that's it. And so when that disappears, there's not gonna be a replacement level jobs to fill those lawyers that are-

Seth Adler: On the low end, not necessarily. But-

Shea Gunther: But that's 80% of lawyers, isn't it? It's most lawyers.

Seth Adler: Are just doing 100% of discovery? I don't know.

Shea Gunther: Or no, but it just knocks out-

Seth Adler: Yeah, I don't know too much about the legal industry, but it does knock out a bunch of people.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. Well it just seems like the top people will be there, there'll always be room for that, but it's that-

Seth Adler: But those are educated people. And those educated people will educate themselves in a different way. That's what I'm saying about that. That economy kind of takes us 25 years hence.

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: So that's that. So what we do need to deal with is those lower skilled labor positions, what could somebody do that just drives a truck? Well, that's the cannabis jobs that I was talking about. I truly see my two jobs, one is the solution for the other. If you go ahead and put-

Shea Gunther: But cannabis execs are just as greedy, and they're going to-

Seth Adler: Sure.

Shea Gunther: And it's gonna be robots picking and robots-

Seth Adler: Well, there's gonna be-

Shea Gunther: I'm just super pessimistic-

Seth Adler: I understand. I understand. But there's going to be that, and there's gonna be-

Shea Gunther: Black Mirror is [crosstalk 00:32:40] in my head.

Seth Adler: There's gonna be certain brands that trade that way, that will be the ... To put it in quotations, I probably shouldn't brand name, but there will be the Budweiser of cannabis, but then there will also be really perfect, great, wine that you can only get from this vineyard, and it's really expensive because they don't have robots picking.

Shea Gunther: What do you think ... And once we get past the point where all the legal stuff is ... It's just legal everywhere. What does the market look like? What's the legal market look like? What are-

Seth Adler: Globally?

Shea Gunther: Let's just ... In the US.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Shea Gunther: What are people smoking? Are they smoking flower? What do you think? Are they smoking flower? Are they smoking concentrates? What are they ... Where's it-

Seth Adler: I think almost no one is smoking anything with the exception, possibly, of you and I. Right? I'm a flower person. Personally, I don't see myself ever not being one.

Shea Gunther: Yep.

Seth Adler: But I'm legacy. Right?

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: I'm a legacy system sitting right there in front of you.

Shea Gunther: Exactly.

Seth Adler: I think that we don't even know. As far as product innovation is concerned, we don't even know. What are they gonna do with ... How far down are they gonna be able to go with the specific cannabinoids? What are we gonna do with ... We haven't done any research on anything! We've barely done any research on CBD and THC, let alone CBG and CBC and the acidics and the varins and the ... I mean, come on. We got a lot of work to do.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. Yeah, well I mean, you're definitely right that it's not gonna be flower. Yeah.

Seth Adler: I can't see that.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. I mean, I think-

Seth Adler: Every market goes down with flower. You know? Or doesn't come up if you didn't have flower to begin with.

Shea Gunther: The thing that I've never heard anyone talk about or acknowledge is, and I need to do this math to get this number, but a large Midwestern farm could grow the entire United States crop of marijuana if it was ... Grow a big outdoor crop and then turn it into concentrates and do whatever. Put it in vape pens or put it in foods or put it in edibles, whatever. But it's not that much. When we get to the point where it can be 10,000 acre, 20,000, 30,000 acre farms in the Midwest, there are farms that big now. And there's lots of them. You don't need that much pot to grow ... That's gonna be such a commodity. There's gonna be no market for flower.

Seth Adler: Well, there's-

Shea Gunther: Except for that ... They'll be that high end craft stuff.

Seth Adler: Sure.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, there will always be that.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Because there will always be some people that like vinyl.

Seth Adler: Exactly. Exactly. And vinyl's great if you don't mind gettin' up and flippin'.

Shea Gunther: Yep.

Seth Adler: But there's where innovation comes in again. Who knows if that farmland is used as farmland. You know? What's the square footage, and what else can we do with it?

Shea Gunther: Yeah. Grow somethin'.

Seth Adler: Sure. And I think a lot of it-

Shea Gunther: Tobacco.

Seth Adler: Yeah. Well, industrial hemp. And let's start makin' t-shirts with the decorticator on the corner.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. Everyone's got one.

Seth Adler: Exactly. We already gave everybody one. That happened, what? It would've been, what? Probably 14 minutes ago. I wonder if I'm right. If it was actually 14 minutes ago that we gave everybody a decorticator when we said, "You get a decorticator."

Shea Gunther: Oh, yeah. That would be funny.

Seth Adler: We'll see.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, we'll-

Seth Adler: We'll find it. You'll know.

Shea Gunther: I'm gonna make a guess. 17:32.

Seth Adler: Okay. That's good. So it's closest without going over, of course.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, like price is right.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. And I will be blown away if either one of us gets it right.

Seth Adler: I bet we're close, at least.

Shea Gunther: I mean, I have no idea so-

Seth Adler: Alright, we'll see.

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: We'll see. Do you do a sign off at all? Do you say something last, every time?

Shea Gunther: Yeah. What do I say?

Seth Adler: Well let me start, because mine is longer. I'll give you the three final questions.

Shea Gunther: Okay.

Seth Adler: Right?

Shea Gunther: Okay.

Seth Adler: I'll tell you what they are, I'll ask you them in order.

Shea Gunther: Okay.

Seth Adler: What's most surprised you in cannabis? What's most surprised you in life? And on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's gotta be on there.

Seth Adler: So first thing's first, Shea Gunther, what's most surprised you in cannabis over the last 11, I mean 21 years?

Shea Gunther: I thought it'd be done in five years.

Seth Adler: Meaning legal? Great. Goodbye.

Shea Gunther: Well, I was 19, I was like, "What? We can get this done. Come on."

Seth Adler: Exactly. Peter Tosh legalize it, and then we're done! It's legal! Everything's fine!

Shea Gunther: But then I will also say that I've also been maybe a little surprised at how quickly it sped up once it started.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Post-2012, things are just speeding up so quickly. Once you pour money into a system, it's funny how it's an accelerant.

Seth Adler: Yeah. The first companies going public on real exchanges, being plant touching companies, is remarkable.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. Exists! Yeah.

Seth Adler: No, but that's crazy that those were the first ones to go.

Shea Gunther: There are so many ... I mean, we're here at a convention where there's 25,000 people. It's so many people.

Seth Adler: So many people. Too many people.

Shea Gunther: No, it's crazy.

Seth Adler: What's most surprised you in life, Shea?

Shea Gunther: I don't know.

Seth Adler: It's a big question.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, it is a big question. My life has turned out pretty much exactly like I thought it would and how I planned. So that is ... And it's maybe a little bit bumpier than I thought it was gonna be.

Seth Adler: Sure, that'll happen.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, I'm 40 now, and when I meet people in their 20s, I'm like, "Ah. There's so much pain you haven't felt." That's the ... You know? If you get into your 40s and still be here, and then-

Seth Adler: But that's the learning, though. And I say it tongue in cheek, but it's true.

Shea Gunther: But that surprises me. That was surprising.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: I mean, again-

Seth Adler: But the hurting is the learning, isn't it?

Shea Gunther: Oh yeah, totally. Yeah, I mean it makes you a person.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: A person.

Seth Adler: Me, more rounded than you. That's a height joke. So I guess I gotta ask you, if there is one song or track for the soundtrack of your life, what would that be?

Shea Gunther: I don't know what it would be, but it'd probably be by the Avett Brothers.

Seth Adler: Oh wow, okay.

Shea Gunther: So-

Seth Adler: They're very kind. That's how I see them.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, yeah. Totally. It's totally-

Seth Adler: Nice. They're very ... It's nice.

Shea Gunther: So I started listening to them awhile back, and then a year after becoming obsessed with them, I found out that one of my friends actually plays cello for them, and I'm like-

Seth Adler: Huh.

Shea Gunther: Oh, that's ... Joe, you play cello?

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: So that was cool.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: But then ever since then, it's probably 80% of my music I listen to.

Seth Adler: Oh, wow.

Shea Gunther: And I try to listen to other music, but if you actually tracked what I ... I'm just stuck in this band.

Seth Adler: So I got another one for you, which you might actually like. So you know Medeski Martin & Wood?

Shea Gunther: Yeah, yeah, totally.

Seth Adler: Okay so Wood has a brother and they put out an album, they might've put out more than one. I only heard one of 'em. The Wood Brothers.

Shea Gunther: Nice.

Seth Adler: I got a feeling you're gonna like that.

Shea Gunther: I'm gonna listen.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Beautiful.

Seth Adler: All right.

Shea Gunther: Okay so on the daily, I just read news. But on Marijuana Today, we do something called finishing moves that we ... We have a sound thing that's ... Finishing moves is the part of our show where are regulars get to talk about whatever they want.

Seth Adler: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Shea Gunther: So what's your finishing move?

Seth Adler: Well so I ... This is my opportunity to thank Kris Krane for name checking me in a finishing move, I don't know, would've been years ago now.

Shea Gunther: Nice.

Seth Adler: So I have to say thank you. My finishing move ... Well, may I ask for you to go first so that I kinda learn from you and then give a finishing move that might be cogent?

Shea Gunther: Yeah, but finishing move really can be about anything you want.

Seth Adler: Anything?

Shea Gunther: Yeah. Yeah, there's been finishing moves about books, a lot of self promotion, which is good.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Shea Gunther: We love our regulars to be self-promotional. So I'm gonna do a finishing move. I'm gonna quickly apologize to all of our listeners for not being able to put together episodes of the Daily this week.

Seth Adler: Oh, okay.

Shea Gunther: So when I was in ... I'm in Vegas, right now. And always in the past, I've been able to produce my daily show while here. I wake up really tired and just somehow fight through and get that daily produced. But this year, I just couldn't do it because of this big show that we're producing. We produced it last night, a big live show. And just every single day, there's just no time. So yeah, sorry about that.

Seth Adler: Oh, so that's your finishing move?

Shea Gunther: That's my finishing move. Sorry about that. Yeah, we'll get that figured out, but yeah. Sorry, listeners.

Shea Gunther: Seth, what's your finishing move?

Seth Adler: Yeah. Tryin' to think what my finishing move really should be. I think-

Shea Gunther: You wanna talk about some project you're doin'?

Seth Adler: Well I mean-

Shea Gunther: Pitch your podcast?

Seth Adler: Cannabis Economy Podcast, you can find it wherever you-

Shea Gunther: Let's talk about ... Before you start your finishing move, tell me about your podcast in 30 seconds, I'll tell you about mine so our listeners can cross-

Seth Adler: It's a realtime history of legal cannabis. If you are a leader in governance, business, or science, we talk to you.

Shea Gunther: Beautiful. Yeah, Marijuana Today is a weekly show where we have one host. We have actually three rotating hosts and then a bunch of regulars who dive into the three most very important stories of the week and get super nerdy about it. And then I have a daily show where I get super nerdy about the 10 most ... It's like NPR on weed.

Shea Gunther: All right so now Seth, you've had some time. What's your finishing move?

Seth Adler: My finishing move is, I do think that this industry provides solutions that we haven't even realized yet for global society. And I hope that we start to have that conversation sooner than later.

Shea Gunther: Nice. I like it.

Seth Adler: That's my finishing move.

Shea Gunther: That's your finishing move? All right. Well, I'll do my quick sign off, you can do your quick sign off. We hope you enjoyed this episode of Marijuana Today recorded on the floor for Marijuana Business Daily here in sunny Las Vegas, Nevada. I was about to say California, but no, Las Vegas is not in California, it's in Nevada! Or as Betty Aldworth likes to say, Nevada.

Seth Adler: Well, I think that that's-

Shea Gunther: No, she's gonna get mad at me.

Seth Adler: No, they prefer it, Nevada.

Shea Gunther: Oh, no they don't. They say it's Nevada.

Seth Adler: Are you sure?

Shea Gunther: Wait, no. Now I'm thinking-

Seth Adler: I think it's Nevada.

Shea Gunther: No, it's definitely not Nevada.

Seth Adler: Sure?

Shea Gunther: No, Betty yells at me for saying that.

Seth Adler: All right.

Shea Gunther: Yeah, no.

Seth Adler: Fair enough. Well then I will say, thank you, Shea, for being on Cannabis Economy. Very much appreciate your time, and we will check in with you down the line.

Shea Gunther: Beautiful. All right. That was good.

Speaker 4: So we're talking with Seth Adler, who is the host of the Cannabis Economy, which is probably the ... It's who we aspire to be, as podcasters, both from a quality, a guest, and also size of audience perspective. So thanks for takin' a couple minutes with us.

Seth Adler: And I very much appreciate that. You are so kind every time I see you, so I really appreciate that. I appreciate what you guys are doin', as well, of course.

Speaker 4: Thank you.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Speaker 4: So this is ... It's 2018. It's the end of the year.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Speaker 4: It's been quite a year in cannabis. We're at the biggest trade show there is. What do you expect to learn?

Seth Adler: Yeah. I think we have to say MJBizCon.

Speaker 4: Oh, we're at the-

Seth Adler: Yeah, that's the thing, yeah.

Speaker 4: MJBizCon.

Seth Adler: That's the rule, yeah.

Speaker 4: Yes. And we're actually recording on Podcast Row.

Seth Adler: There we go.

Speaker 4: So you've seen everything. You've been doin' this for five years. What do you think is the big thing you're gonna see here?

Seth Adler: Here? At the show?

Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

Seth Adler: Well, I was just in a keynote where the presenter mentioned that his thoughts on the size of the market by 2050, in roughly 30 years, is gonna be $2 trillion, I think American dollars. So that's not something that I had conceived of. It's not something I thought about before.

Speaker 4: I'm gonna be dead by then, so who gives a shit?

Seth Adler: It's not ... We're gonna be old, I'll tell you that.

Speaker 5: Was that that [inaudible 00:44:35]?

Seth Adler: It wasn't, no. Yeah. No, it was Canada.

Speaker 5: That [inaudible 00:44:41]?

Seth Adler: Yeah. But it was someone at LP from Canada and I am blanking because too many things, so many people.

Speaker 4: Yeah. It's unbelievable. So this is ... How many years have you been coming to the show?

Seth Adler: To the show? I would ... This is my fourth or fifth time. Yeah, definitely. I did not go to the one that was not in Vegas. I went to the first one in Vegas, and then ever since.

Speaker 4: So they're estimating it's gonna be about 40,000 people coming here for the show.

Seth Adler: That's with walk ups, so we'll see.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Seth Adler: But, sure.

Speaker 4: When you started doing this, when you started your podcast, could you ever imagine a trade show like this for the industry?

Seth Adler: No. Certainly not. I mean, the thinking was, "Okay, we've got something here. What is it?" We had adult use in Colorado. We had adult use in Washington, and sprinklings of medical all over. And some of the most bullish people like Tripp Kieber, at the time with Dixie Elixirs, now Dixie Brands-

Speaker 5: [inaudible 00:45:46]

Seth Adler: Well, that's Chuck.

Speaker 5: Oh.

Seth Adler: Because Tripp has gone on his own journey.

Speaker 5: He's gone on a journey.

Seth Adler: Yeah, he's gone on a ... Exactly.

Speaker 4: That's a completely different drug set, by the way.

Seth Adler: I think he ... Indeed. That's maps, and we should get Leonna in.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Seth Adler: But he was thinking of federal capitulation, those were his words, by the end of the Obama Presidency. Obviously, that did not occur. But now, with ... You mentioned the time that we're speaking, after this most recent election, after losing not one Sessions, but two Sessions.

Speaker 4: Yes.

Seth Adler: And Pete Sessions being the bigger one. That's the guy that was blocking all of the votes.

Speaker 5: Yeah.

Speaker 4: Yep.

Seth Adler: ... Out of the rules committee. Now, we've got a shot, here, at a true, real-

Speaker 5: So what's your prediction?

Seth Adler: ... Bonafide industry.

Speaker 5: If you had put a time on it?

Seth Adler: Prognostications is not something that I traffic in.

Speaker 5: I'm not gonna hold you to it.

Seth Adler: No-

Speaker 5: I'm not gonna be like, "Seth Adler-"

Seth Adler: Hmm, indeed. And it was. It was, that one time. He did say it, and the-

Speaker 4: That was at fan camp, by the way?

Seth Adler: I think that that ... It was, there you go. What that gentleman said, the $2 trillion, that's almost a conservative estimate based on the fact that it is currently still federal illegal in the United States.

Speaker 4: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler: As you guys might now. And who knows how large this can be? That possibly is a conservative estimate. So to go back to the beginning of your question, which was, I mean, eons ago, but five years ago, no. This is a completely different conversation. That conversation was, is the Obama Administration going to stop the attorneys from raiding us in California?

Speaker 4: Right.

Seth Adler: 'Cause those raids were still happening.

Speaker 5: Well, and that was the Cole Memo, right? The Genesis-

Seth Adler: After the Cole Memos, they were still raiding, still raiding.

Speaker 5: Okay.

Seth Adler: So you know, this is a totally different time and place than it was five years ago, absolutely. Having said that, some of the folks that're in the industry remain, some of the folks that are not, we talked about Chuck and Tripp, and it's a different feeling as well, as far as ... What? Collegiality?

Speaker 4: Well I see-

Seth Adler: Community?

Speaker 5: [inaudible 00:47:58] a little bit.

Speaker 4: Well I'm not comfortable-

Seth Adler: Sure, of course.

Speaker 4: They were professional. It was just a different style of professionalism.

Seth Adler: Absolutely.

Speaker 4: And we've, Anne and I have been talking for almost a whole year about this tension between the suits and the stoners.

Seth Adler: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Speaker 4: The historic market participants and the new market participants.

Seth Adler: Yeah, but on the spectrum, you've just mentioned kind of two ends of the spectrum.

Speaker 4: Right.

Seth Adler: What about all of everybody in the middle?

Speaker 4: Oh, totally. I mean, you look at us. Right?

Seth Adler: We're in the middle.

Speaker 4: We're in the middle. Right?

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Speaker 4: We're definitely people who are professional in what we do, and have an understanding of the history, but we're not the historic people who bled, literally bled, for this industry.

Seth Adler: That's it. Arrested and such.

Speaker 4: Yeah, what do you think's gonna happen five years from now? So five years, you'll have been doing your podcast for 10 years.

Seth Adler: Indeed. My goodness. Well, it does feel like, to me, that five years from now, Mitch McConnell possibly won't be the Senate Majority Leader.

Speaker 4: Oh, I don't think he's gonna. I think he's gonna lose his seat. He's up in 2020, and I think he loses his seat.

Seth Adler: So, if that is the case, then we are looking at something different. If he stays where he is and we don't change our current leadership in the Executive Branch, is how I'll put it, I don't know.

Speaker 4: You mean the orange piece of [inaudible 00:49:22]?

Seth Adler: That is ... Those are your words.

Speaker 4: Those are ... Hey, the last time I said those words, I got hate mail, so ... You know?

Seth Adler: Yeah. No, that's gonna happen. Sure. I think the whole reason I approach it that way is to just ... Let's just calm down, everybody.

Speaker 4: Right.

Seth Adler: You know what I mean? Let just everybody [crosstalk 00:49:36].

Speaker 4: But Trump has said that he's in favor of state's rights. Right?

Seth Adler: Kind of.

Speaker 4: And he said he would sign the state's bill.

Seth Adler: Absolutely. But I think he says a lot of things.

Speaker 5: [crosstalk 00:49:46] on his priority list.

Seth Adler: Indeed.

Speaker 4: Yes.

Speaker 5: He's so distracted-

Seth Adler: Absolutely, which is why his policy is-

Speaker 4: North Korea, Russia.

Seth Adler: Right, exactly. So his policy on this is essentially Mitch McConnell's policy.

Speaker 4: Yes.

Seth Adler: Is how I see it. You know? So if we change one or change both, well then you take the gloves off. But if both remain, I think five years is still kinda ... It feels similar.

Speaker 4: I don't think so, personally.

Seth Adler: Fair enough.

Speaker 4: Well look, you're seeing so much money flow into the industry. Right?

Seth Adler: Absolutely.

Speaker 4: Curaleaf raised $400 million. Acreage raised $320 million. You've got $4 billion in canopy. There's gonna be a fundamental change because there's gonna be a massive consolidation. Yes.

Seth Adler: Are you saying outside of the US, or in the US?

Speaker 4: Even in the US. So look-

Seth Adler: Because outside of the US, globally, I think it's going to be substantial change. I think the rest of the world will continue to march forward in a way that we've not seen. I think that 2019 is the first year of the globe catching up on cannabis, and then pulling all the way ahead. My comments were just about our little country, here.

Speaker 4: But it's funny. We work with Curaleaf and Boris Jordan said ... He's the Chairman of the company, and he did a lot of business in Russia in the early '90s, and he said, "This industry is the same. It has got huge regulatory risk associated with it, it's high barriers to entry, and it takes a strong stomach to really do this, but if you do it, you're gonna make a ton of money."

Seth Adler: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Speaker 4: There is so much money flowing into the industry that the smaller guys, the companies that own one or two dispensaries, they'll be gone in five years.

Seth Adler: Sure, sure. Hopefully sold and hopefully made some money on it.

Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah. They will.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Speaker 4: I mean, they're getting bought.

Seth Adler: yeah.

Speaker 4: The multiples right now are insane for an individual property, but-

Seth Adler: Yeah, if you're tired, do sell now, by the way, if you can.

Speaker 4: Oh, listen. Forget if you're tired, if you have the vision to understand what's coming, sell now. Right?

Seth Adler: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4: Because these guys are all gonna buy you up and you're not gonna get the same price two years from now that you would get today. I mean, we're at a peak part of the market. For the smaller guys, I would say it's time to sell.

Seth Adler: Yeah. So I guess, then, that we might be talking about two different things. Because you are talking about capital.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Seth Adler: You're talking about economy. You're talking about the money that is coming into this industry, and I do not see that slowing down. I just think that it's possible that cannabis will still be federal illegal in five years. That was what my point of view there was.

Speaker 4: Possibly.

Seth Adler: But yeah, no. I mean come on. You guys know very well how much money is coming into the industry, how much money wants to come into the industry that has no information.

Speaker 4: Oh, yeah.

Seth Adler: And needs investor relations, or whatever.

Speaker 4: Wow. That was beautiful.

Seth Adler: Thank you. Yeah. See, I can do the other side, too?

Speaker 4: I appreciate it, thank you. Nice plug. So all right. Hey man, have a great show, really appreciate-

Seth Adler: Absolutely.

Speaker 5: [crosstalk 00:52:50] podcast again, where can people find it.

Seth Adler: Yeah, so Cannabis-

Speaker 5: [crosstalk 00:52:52]

Seth Adler: Absolutely, and thank you. So Cannabis Economy is the name of the podcast, and you can search for that anywhere you get your podcasts, including this one. Canneconomy, two Ns and the word economy is if you wanna follow us on social, but I'm very bad at that. It's not-

Speaker 4: Well we have a good PR firm that can help you with that.

Seth Adler: Fair enough, we should probably discuss that. Yeah, listen.

Speaker 4: Yeah, listen.

Seth Adler: That's the way you know-

Speaker 4: And by the way, listen to the damn thing. It's really good.

Seth Adler: Thank you so much, guys.

Speaker 4: Thank you, guy.

Speaker 5: Thanks, Seth.

Shea Gunther: Hello and welcome to this very episode of Marijuana Today. It's Friday, December 7th, 2018, and I'm your host, Shea Gunther. We're comin' at you live from the Cannabis Media Summit here in Times Square in New York City, and we're here to talk about the intersection of news, legal marijuana, and podcasting. I'm really excited about this episode, both for its live setting as well as the folks joining me here to talk about the issues. So I'm gonna give a quick bit of bio, but I'm going to go into a little bit more in depth.

Shea Gunther: This is great, 'cause she's sitting right next to me. First up, we have Taylor West. Taylor's the Senior Communications Director over at COHNNABIS, a division of the marketing firm, COHN Marketing. Taylor has a deep background in politics and advocacy work, having served as Assistant Deputy Director of the National Cannabis-

Taylor West: It's Deputy Director. Assistant?

Shea Gunther: Oh, geeze. All right, Deputy Director. Deputy Director of the National assistant to-

Taylor West: Don't demote me.

Shea Gunther: No. So she was the Deputy Director of the National Cannabis Industry Association, before moving over to work at COHNNABIS. And she's also a longtime regular on our podcast, Marijuana Today, which is this show.

Shea Gunther: Next up is Bruce Barcott. And I love that everyone's sitting in the direction that I wrote. Bruce is Deputy Editor over at Leafly News and a longtime writer and journalist with a couple of books published and articles placed in publications like National Geographic, Harper's Magazine and Sports Illustrated. Bruce was named as a Guggenheim fellow in non-fiction in 2009, and he was a Ted Scripps fellow in environmental journalism at CU Boulder. Besides his writing for Leafly, he also produces the podcast, the Roll Up.

Shea Gunther: And finally, certainly not leastly, is Seth Adler, founder and host of the Cannabis Economy podcast, which is one of the longest running and most respected interview format shows in the marijuana space. Seth has a couple decades of experience in professional production experience under his belt, and has been called the Charlie Rose of cannabis.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Of insight and wisdom [crosstalk 00:55:44]

Seth Adler: That's an out of date reference, Shea.

Taylor West: Oh, actually, yeah. Oh.

Seth Adler: We just go with David Letterman, now.

Shea Gunther: Who's the new Charlie Rose? David Letterman.

Seth Adler: Yeah, yeah.

Shea Gunther: He's the David Letterman.

Seth Adler: Yeah, there we go.

Shea Gunther: ... Of the cannabis industry.

Seth Adler: That's it.

Shea Gunther: And I guess I should mention my own podcasts while I'm at it. So once again, I'm Shea Gunther. I produce a weekly show called Marijuana Today that features a panel of our expert guests and hosts. We actually have one of our awesome hosts, Dan Goldman, in the background. Dan, put your hand up, 'cause you're awesome.

Seth Adler: Hey, Dan.

Shea Gunther: In addition to that, I wake up every morning at 5:00 and I produce a daily podcast that goes out with the 10 most important industry news stories everyday. So it's kinda like NPR on weed. And then lastly, I produce the Green Rush-

Taylor West: And what's that called, Shea? Not marijuana Today.

Shea Gunther: Marijuana Today.

Taylor West: Daily.

Shea Gunther: Daily. Oh. And you tell her. That show is called Marijuana [crosstalk 00:56:39] Daily.

Shea Gunther: The other show that I produce is called the Green Rush podcast. And we saw Lou's up here. It's a weekly interview format show that is awesome, so you should listen to that show, too. So did I miss any of your introductions? You're all properly introduced?

Bruce Barcott: We're good.

Shea Gunther: Awesome. So let's jump right into it. So we're here to talk about journalism and news and marijuana and podcasting. I have some questions for individual guests, but I have some questions I'm gonna ask everyone. So first off, everyone just go down the line. How did you guys all get started in podcasting?

Taylor West: I got started in podcasting through you. So thank you. As Shea mentioned, I am one of a rotating group of regulars on the Marijuana Today podcast, which started out essentially as a group of really kind of friends, who all knew each other from various work that we'd done in either the marijuana policy movement or in the cannabis industry. In most cases, starting in the policy movement, and in a lot of cases, moving into the industry. And I have to say, it's one of my favorite things about it, is because we have those longer lasting relationships, that the whole concept of that podcast is listening in on two or three or four people having a conversation that has a lot of built in kind of history. And so it makes for a, I think, if I'm not tooting our own horn too much, a really entertaining and enjoyable podcast to listen to.

Shea Gunther: Yeah we have about 25,000, 30,000 who listen to our show, so something's workin'.

Shea Gunther: Bruce, how 'bout you? How'd you get in podcasting?

Bruce Barcott: I had been editing at Leafly for about a year, year and a half or so, and became a fan of My Brother, My Brother and Me, one of the greatest podcasts of all time. And although I am not nearly as witty, funny and smart as the brothers, I thought that maybe this was something we could do, Leafly, just to startup and see where it went. The people who write the checks above me, I convinced them to invest a little bit in some equipment. And we started ... We had a whole roster of show ideas that we went through and argued over, and ultimately put up two shows. One is called What are You Smoking, and it's a show all about cannabis products and strains and we have a lot of our subject matter experts, as we call them at Leafly, on the show talking about cannabis. And the other is called the Roll Up, which is a weekly news podcast. We tape it every Thursday afternoon. Me and Ben Adlin started that one. And we started it, essentially, with four months of dry runs that really sucked. I mean, we were pretty bad before we put it up on the air. Now we have a third co-host, Alyssa Yeoman, she's actually a professional comedian.

Bruce Barcott: And we're getting ready to launch our first Canadian podcast called the High Life next week, and we have another coming in January called the Hash. So keep an eye out for those on the way.

Seth Adler: Hmm. You're busy.

Bruce Barcott: Yeah, yeah.

Seth Adler: Well-

Bruce Barcott: Yeah.

Seth Adler: Didn't you also write a book, I thought?

Bruce Barcott: Yeah, yeah.

Seth Adler: We don't talk about that anymore?

Bruce Barcott: That was my entry point into the cannabis-

Seth Adler: We don't even ... Nothin' about the book.

Bruce Barcott: This is podcast!

Seth Adler: All right, fair enough.

Shea Gunther: That's paper. [crosstalk 01:00:14]

Taylor West: Old school.

Seth Adler: What is the Roll Up, if not paper?

Seth Adler: So I'm Seth, and I do the Cannabis Economy podcast, and I got into podcasting because initially, in 2013, I kinda was calling around and saying, "What is legal cannabis," being from New York, we didn't know about this whole thing. You guys in the west knew about it, but we didn't. And so started to call folks like Taylor, actually, and when she was at NCIA, and started to put together these little executive forums so that the most important people in the industry could have a place to kinda discuss. So I would write these beautiful programs with topics and bullet points that would be completely obsolete by the time we actually ran their ... Hello. I didn't expect to see Shaleen Title. So they were completely obsoletely by the time we ran the event.

Seth Adler: So I thought to myself, well, there's gotta be a quicker way to get this information out, and I had a little college radio experience, hence the podcast, which has been goin' on for a little bit, now. Yeah. Quite some time.

Taylor West: And Seth does very extensive interviews. I can't believe you've managed to keep that intensity up for as long as you have. It's incredible.

Seth Adler: I appreciate that.

Shea Gunther: How many episodes you at? 380 plus, right?

Seth Adler: Somethin' like that, yeah.

Shea Gunther: That's super impressive. 'Cause it comes out on a weekly, or-

Seth Adler: Yeah. It started twice a week, now it's weekly. We might go back to more than weekly, but yeah. At least once a week. How 'bout that?

Shea Gunther: It takes a lot of work to make one episode of a podcast, so yeah. I'm very impressed by Seth.

Shea Gunther: How do you guys market your podcasts? Seth.

Seth Adler: Not at all. Yeah. No, I'm terrible. My one skill is the interview. I am bad at marketing. I'm bad at sales. I'm bad at everything else. So right now is really the first time that I'm actually thinking about marketing and what we would do for sponsorship. Up until now, it's basically been, "Who are my friends? Hey guys, do you mind buyin' a couple ads?" So it's ... Marketing and sales has not been my focus. My focus has been reporting on, if you will, this realtime history of legal cannabis. So each of these folks has been ... Well, Shea's almost been on, he's ... You know, by this-

Shea Gunther: [crosstalk 01:02:33], yeah.

Seth Adler: Yeah. But this is a fascinating time in this history of man, let alone the plant. And so I just see this as my ... What I kinda have to do here on earth. So that's been why I've been doin' it, as opposed to anything else.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. And Bruce, you work for Leafly. Leafly is a big media company. How do they ... What do they think about podcasts? Are they-

Bruce Barcott: They abide podcasts, they like it. They're not sure what it is, though, or how it works.

Shea Gunther: Tell 'em it's radio.

Bruce Barcott: ... For the company. I mean, marketing basically where it's a ... Social media is our marketing at this point. And I think, I'm assuming this, but most podcasts tend to be one or two people shows. And I'm producing, hosting, as soon as I get done hosting, I'm editing, and trying to get it up that night, if not the next morning. And then I'm actually writing and building a page on Leafly on the site that goes up, then it's late because I'm here. And by the time you get done with that, then we're socializing it, then I go to bed. That's-

Shea Gunther: There's no more energy.

Bruce Barcott: There's no more energy. But yeah, so marketing is tough with podcasts. It's so much is just simply word of mouth.

Shea Gunther: And it seems to me too, that a reader is not necessarily a listener.

Bruce Barcott: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: You guys have a lot of readers. Converting them to listeners, that is a challenge. I mean, for all of us.

Bruce Barcott: Yeah, the page is a place for the podcast to live, really. But the page is not a huge draw. It's all about the listen and getting people to tune in or give it a try. You know? And we do a little bit of cross marketing on each show. We're gonna do a lot more of that starting with the High Life, up in Canada, because we have kind of two actual Canadian celebrities hosting that, and we're hoping that'll help boost the audience for everybody.

Seth Adler: Nice.

Shea Gunther: Yeah and we, with Marijuana today and Marijuana Today Daily, we haven't really done any real marketing. We never spent any money on ... Mostly 'cause we haven't had it, but it's all because of social media. And I mean, I've been lucky because people like Taylor or people like Dan, and Shaleen, all of ... Everyone who's on our show has huge networks of friends and social networks, and so they're able to kinda get the word out. So that's been hugely helpful [inaudible 01:05:01] our show. And I mean I think you're right. Marijuana podcasting is so [inaudible 01:05:05], we don't know what we're goin'. I mean, we know how to make the shows. But yeah, all that other stuff, we're figurin' out.

Shea Gunther: Seth, so Cannabis Economy is definitely the deepest collection of legal cannabis interviews that there is. What keeps you going? What motivated you to get into this and now what keeps you going? Because-

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: Well I kinda mentioned my raison d'etre, as they say in Ireland, and what keeps me going is that I'm actually curious. I'm actually interested. I'm actually fascinated with the fact that this plant has been prohibited. It is medicine, and also in car doors. How is that possible? So I'm fascinated by that, and I actually like ... I've updated. I used to say I like people, I actually like persons. Not so sure about people. But I find it interesting to find out about people. I talked to Taylor about her dog and-

Taylor West: I was just gonna say, that's actually what I remember from that interview, too, is we talked about my dog.

Seth Adler: I think Duke University, if I'm not mistaken.

Taylor West: Duke, yeah.

Seth Adler: The Weed the People book, I know we don't talk about it anymore, but Bruce's exploration into the industry, finding these interesting people.

Shea Gunther: So you just know everyone. You got everyone's dirt.

Seth Adler: Well I'm not ... See that's interesting that you say dirt, because I don't look at myself as a journalist. I look at myself as an anthropologist. I'm actually not interested in any dirt unless you're talking about soil. And yeah, we gotta talk about that. But I'm not interested in breaking a story, really. I'm more interested in ... Okay, this is what's happening, what's the feeling, what's the sentiment, what's the sediment? That's a dirt joke. Yeah, it's ... A little habit. It's like ... Oh he liked it, there you go. That's why we do it. It's for the one guy.

Shea Gunther: One guy.

Seth Adler: Yeah, just gotta find the one, yeah.

Shea Gunther: I know it's hard to pick your favorite children, but who are some of your favorite interviews?

Seth Adler: No, I won't do some, I will do one. It's, we'll I'll say it's two parts. The first, Jim Cole interview, episode 140. It's in your phone right now. That's James M. Cole, the former US Deputy Attorney General. I called him up and I said, "Jim, I do a realtime history of legal cannabis and I have to talk to you." And he said, "Call me in six months." And then I did. And he was like, "Okay, can I edit it?" Or, "Can I listen to it before you put it up?" And I never say yes to that. But for Jim Cole, the guy that wrote the Cole Memos, I said, "Yeah. Yeah, Jim. You can do that." So episode 140 is absolutely my favorite. And the two interviews that I did with him are my favorites, because I was able to talk to him on the Friday after former Attorney General Sessions rescinded his memos.

Shea Gunther: Oh, nice.

Seth Adler: Yeah. And he was not ... He was more baffled than pissed. You know? He was like, "I just don't understand why you would do something like that. Doesn't make any sense." As opposed to, "That bastard."

Shea Gunther: Taylor, so your bosses is at COHN Marketing are okay obviously okay with you podcasting, 'cause you're here and we record our shows during the workday a lot, and you joined us. Why are they so cool with that?

Taylor West: I mean, doing a podcast like Marijuana Today where you really have an opportunity to dive deeply into topics that we talk about, it's a ... We're looking at things that are happening in the news, but then we're really putting them into the context that all of the different guests have, from their history with the movement and with the industry. It's an incredible way to have a great conversation, but also, frankly, demonstrate your expertise. And for someone who now works in the industry, pitching myself to clients as someone who is knowledgeable about cannabis, we all know that there are a lot of people who make that claim, it's nice to have a forum in which to demonstrate that to a certain extent. And I am by far not the most knowledgeable amount the crew of regulars on Marijuana Today, but I'm very fortunate to get to spend time with them.

Taylor West: And so yeah, I mean it is crassly fantastic promotion for the work that we do a COHNNABIS. And oddly enough, we rarely talk about marketing and branding topics, which is what COHNNABIS does. But even so, in some ways, that almost makes it better. We talk about substance and policy and what's happening in the industry, and it gives me an opportunity to be out there, and making the case that I have an understanding that others don't.

Taylor West: So yeah, they're totally cool with it.

Shea Gunther: What's the general rule, the PR thing about podcasting? Is it starting to catch on? What's goin' on there?

Taylor West: Yeah, I mean I think if you are a business looking at ways to raise your visibility within the industry, you have to look at podcasts. Either pitching yourself as a potential guest, sponsoring, starting your own podcast. Candidly, we at COHNNABIS are likely going to be starting our own podcast sometime in the near future, probably working with Shea. And part of the reason that it is such a channel that you really should be looking at, is that there are so many channels that are cut off to cannabis businesses. And there're so many places where other businesses can market and promote and get out there and be visible that we don't have access to. Google AdWords and social media marketing, and all of that. And one of the answers to that is to create your own channels. And podcasting is a way to do that.

Taylor West: And it's also a way to do it with the opportunity to inject your own voice and your own personality in it, and go in depth in a way that you simply can't, even with something like a blog post.

Bruce Barcott: Yeah, can I pick up on that for a second? I think it's an amazing medium for humanizing who you are and what you do. Whether that's a person or a company. I mean, one of the things that I didn't get to say earlier today, but I wanted to, was when Shaleen Title was up here talking. And Shaleen, one of the things that you're doing that almost kinda feels revolutionary right now, is with your use of social media, you're not just a person who knows cannabis who's on that commission, you're a human on that commission. Right? You're surfacing all the ways in which ... Oh, you know what? We got a lot of staff people back here actually working on these license applications. We're working hard.

Shaleen Title: So chill the hell out.

Bruce Barcott: Yeah. But no, it's seriously ... There are ways that that really humanizes what is otherwise a very faceless government process. And I think that podcasting for us at Leafly, it's a way to literally give voice to our expertise. But when we started up, we had a problem where we had all these amazing cannabis experts at Leafly, in the room, and we were kinda getting their work out through articles and everything, but they knew so much more. And they were so engaging on the topic and could explain things in ways that couldn't be captured in text. And that's what one of the things that podcasting has really done for us, is to let those voices come out, whether it's an expert talking about what different kinds of hash are, or my co-host on the Roll Up, I can just say, "Hey Ben, is CBD legal?" And I can just sit back and sip a cup of coffee for a half an hour. You know? While he explains all the permutations of that question.

Shea Gunther: 'Cause it's kinda-

Bruce Barcott: So yeah, it does a lot of things.

Shea Gunther: The answer is kinda.

Bruce Barcott: Yeah.

Seth Adler: I would jump in on that. I mean, one of my kinda little focus groups is my 73-year-old father. And when I started doing the podcast, before he said, "Wow, these people are interesting," which he did, is, "Wow, these people seem so normal." And so the kinda destigmatization of the actual people in the industry before we get to the plant is certainly something that happens, here.

Shea Gunther: Yeah. And I ... My background before I got into podcasting, I was a blogger. I wrote about the environment and clean energy and stuff like that. And I mean, I spent years writing and I'll take a listener over 100 readers any day. There's just something about hearing the voice that ... Yeah, it's a deeper connection. So yeah. I'm gonna keep podcasting.

Shea Gunther: Bruce, you are now in your second year as a podcaster.

Bruce Barcott: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: Right?

Bruce Barcott: Yeah.

Shea Gunther: What're you gonna do differently in your second year over your first?

Bruce Barcott: Find a sponsor. We've been talking about this. In terms of how we structure the show, I think that we're looking to create more ... What do I wanna say? Essentially, little ... What do they call them? Easter eggs. Little bits of repetition in the show that listeners can come to count on, and that involves little things like creating specific segments within the show. That involves one of my favorite things that you get to do when you're podcasting, and have a little bit of a budget, which is actually call up an artist, a songwriter, and say, "Hey, we're lookin' for a song for our podcast. Can you give us somethin'? And we can actually pay you for this," which is a great luxury. I love bein' able to do that.

Bruce Barcott: So we're looking to do that. We're looking to bring more guests onto the show because in talking about marketing, guests are marketers. You have somebody on their show, they're gonna tweet out. They're gonna put up on Facebook, "Hey, I was on this show. Check it out," right? And we wanna do a little bit more of that on the Roll Up. So those are some of the things we're doing. We've got two new shows coming out in the next two months, so that will take up a lot of our time. Just simply producing and editing and posting those up.

Shea Gunther: Seth, what do you do to prepare? Walk us through your preparation.

Seth Adler: So I've got a chant that ... That's not. I don't.

Taylor West: You should add that into the opening music for your podcast, though.

Seth Adler: I did. It's like my Om type situation, yeah. It depends on who the guest is. I love the luxury of, if I'm interviewing you for the second time, I don't have to prepare at all. But if it's a sitting US Congressperson, I'm gonna kinda bone up on what they've been focused on and hope that I don't have to educate them. 'Cause that's always depressing when that happens. And if it's a business owner, I actually prefer to prepare less so that I can hear their prepared remarks, and go away from those prepared remarks. Because if I prepare, them I'm, "Oh, this is the subject matter we came here to ... " No, no, no. I actually wanna kinda discover new information with the business owner.

Seth Adler: And then, if ... Well I said ... Scientist, it doesn't help me if I really kind of read their paper. My job, when I'm talking to an academic scientist, or even a corporate scientist, as I call them, they don't necessarily love that, but is to just kinda break it down into normal person speak. "Will you just please share with me what are we talking about? How are we doing this? What are we finding?"

Seth Adler: So it depends. It depends on who the guest is. Probably more, if it's a more public figure, and less if I know the person.

Shea Gunther: Have you had any gone bad? What goes wrong with a bad interview?

Seth Adler: With a bad interview, I can usually find something that's interesting to me. I know that there are some people that are less interesting than other people. So there's that.

Shea Gunther: Just boring.

Seth Adler: Yeah. You know? So you can see the average time of recording of my podcasts and decide for yourself.

Shea Gunther: How do you vet your guests? Do you just look at someone, what they've done? Are you looking ... Yeah. How do you evaluate whether you're gonna actually interview someone?

Seth Adler: So if you're a sitting legislator or regulator, Shaleen, we are interested in talking to you no matter what. If you are an academic scientist focused on cannabis, we are absolutely interested in you. If you are a corporate scientist, it depends on what you're doing. And if you're a business owner, it's gotta be really good. You know? Because as far as marketing is concerned, that's not what I'm here for. I'm not here to help you kinda-

Bruce Barcott: I have a new vape pen that I-

Seth Adler: Yeah, right. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. If you're not producing a vape pen now, you're in the minority. That's all I can say about that.

Shea Gunther: You guys all have your own vape pen lines, right?

Seth Adler: Exactly, yeah.

Shea Gunther: It's actually somethin' we're working on, now. How do you guys, and I'm gonna throw this to each of you, start with you, Taylor. How do you guys measure success in podcasting?

Taylor West: So that's a really good question that I usually look to you to answer, 'cause Shea's really good at tracking the metrics. But I also know that the reality is, in podcasting, it's hard to even know what those metrics mean. Right? Mostly, you can track downloads, but if you're anything like me, you've got a million podcasts downloaded on your phone that you're never going to listen to, 'cause you subscribed to it once when it was interesting, and then you forgot about it. And so it's great to have numbers to say, "Oh, you have this massive audience," or you don't, 'cause the reality is, most of them don't have massive audiences. But there are a lot of other things that you can get out of it. And I think one of them is frankly, building relationship with the guests that you have one. So if you're ... I'm talking about it obviously from a marketing standpoint, but a lot of you I know are journalists or are in the media and aren't thinking about podcasting from that perspective. And it is an opportunity to sit down and have a substantive conversation with someone that you might not have had that kind of conversation with otherwise. Because as a ... If you're a public figure, the opportunity to be heard in your own voice instead of relying on a quote or something like that is really valuable.

Taylor West: So having something like a podcast as an opportunity to reach out to sources and figures that might not otherwise respond to your requests is something that's valuable, even if you're not necessarily getting a ton of traffic or audience on your podcast yet. You'll get it, but it does take time. And I think it's important to have other goals in mind as part of this so that you're not just a slave to downloads and metrics.

Bruce Barcott: Yeah, success is a difficult thing to measure in podcasting right now. I mean, I feel like I go online every three months and try to look up what the top 20 podcasts are getting in audience, and what that means, and it's just very hard to find any real data on that. I'm still waiting for a phone call from Blue Apron or stamps.com. Right? But even if that phone call-

Nancy Whiteman: [crosstalk 01:20:46] share.

Bruce Barcott: Yeah. Even if that phone call were to come, I don't think that revenue is going to bump the bottom line of Leafly. Right? It could cover some costs, that'd be great. We don't have a lot of costs, but it would certainly cover them. I think the value for us is more in terms of what it does to engage with our audience, to really provide, for both of these shows, 30 or 40 minutes straight of conversation of connection with our company and what we can offer. But also, I was talking with [inaudible 01:21:21] earlier today about what we call the carwash effect that we can offer at Leafly now with these two shows, where if we have the founder of a company or a politician, or we had Ricky Williams, the former NFL player, come through a few months ago, and we can have them on both shows and essentially engage with them, connect with them, and offer that conversation to our readers at a point where an article just wouldn't make sense. Ricky Williams has plenty of exposure in terms of any sort of article. But to sit down and talk with him about specific parts of his life or product line or whatever, that's worthwhile. And so it does have some real value in that sense. We just don't know how to actually translate it into bottom line advertising dollars at this point. And I think most podcasters don't.

Seth Adler: Yeah. Ricky Williams is zen, man.

Bruce Barcott: Yeah.

Seth Adler: That guy runs deep.

Seth Adler: As far as success, I mean again, I mentioned I'm not good at stuff other than the interview, so I focus on the interview. And it's hearing something I haven't heard before, number one. Number two is hearing something I have heard before. So I did a bunch of interviews in Vegas, obviously. And if you were to ask everybody there, the state's act is essentially already passed, which of course it's not. And so it's interesting to get those moments in time, those collective moments in time and see how it goes.

Taylor West: So we can depressingly look back and them three years for now when it hasn't been passed?

Seth Adler: Possibly. But hopefully-

Taylor West: But maybe not.

Seth Adler: ... We read the tea leaves correctly and, you know. So that's it. And then it's kinda further to the other thing, a third thing would be what kinda Taylor referenced, which is, if I'm looking for an interview and I get it, that's a form of success.

Taylor West: Well and it was gonna say, it just occurs to me that there is one metric that we haven't talked about, which is literally producing a show on a regular schedule, successfully. That in itself.

Seth Adler: Yeah, and that's more like breathing.

Taylor West: And that's a good example of that, 300 some shows.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Taylor West: That is a metric that should be celebrated. It's not easy.

Seth Adler: And I appreciate that, but that's more a metric for your interpretation of me.

Taylor West: Sure.

Seth Adler: For me, it's just like it's going ... I think I said this the other day, it's like I either die, everyone dies, or there's gonna be good content up tomorrow. It's those three options.

Taylor West: Wow.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Taylor West: But it is worth nothing, if you go out and look in the cannabis space, and I'm sure in lots of others, but I just haven't researched those, there are a ton of podcasts out there that have three episodes. And then the last one was in August of 2016.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Taylor West: Because it's hard.

Seth Adler: If someone comes up to me and says, "I'm gonna start a podcast," I say, "Congratulations, this is great news for everybody. But what I suggest that you do is get a month or two or three's worth of content before you even put up the first episode, because that consistency is what will kill you or help you to succeed."

Bruce Barcott: Yeah. If you think we're not gonna run this as an episode of the Roll Up, you got another thing comin'.

Seth Adler: There you go.

Bruce Barcott: 'Cause I'm lookin' at December 27th on my calendar.

Shea Gunther: That's the spot, right there.

Bruce Barcott: And damn, I've got nothin'.

Shea Gunther: Why'd you think I brought the microphones?

Bruce Barcott: I got nothin' for that spot, and it needs to go out. Right?

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: Right. Especially Christmas week.

Bruce Barcott: It is Christmas week, yeah. Yeah you really ... Every week is every week, yeah.

Shea Gunther: These are little podcaster tricks.

Seth Adler: But feel the pain in what Bruce just ... Every week is every week. Feel how painful that is. That's so painful, man.

Taylor West: This is what I'm sayin', that's why your 300 plus number is a very real metric of success.

Shea Gunther: Well and then you hit publish and it starts over again.

Seth Adler: That's right, yeah. Exactly. What have you done for me lately?

Bruce Barcott: Could I, before we run out of time, could we hit just a little on the topic of what it actually takes, in terms of equipment and money?

Shea Gunther: Yes.

Bruce Barcott: 'Cause I know when I go to podcasting conferences, that's a ... I really wanna get-

Shea Gunther: Yeah, totally. That's a great question. Yeah. Yeah so let's just quickly run through equipment. Bruce, why don't you start?

Bruce Barcott: To get our rig up, we have essentially three stations like this, and all told, I think it's about $1,160. Three Sennheiser mics, $110. Three stands, $45 each. Cords, $20. Zoom unit recording, $450, $500. And I can't remember ... I can't even read my writing, $50 each for somethin' else. But yeah, it's not super cheap, but $1,000 for three stands and a recorder, and you're on your way. Well, and then you got the monthly charge for Libsyn or whatever to actually put it on a platform.

Shea Gunther: Yep. So and I would say that that is to get a professional sounding podcasting up. I started off on a $15 USB mic for months and sounded terrible. And then the company started working, got some revenue, and now I have a really, really nice rig, 'cause I'm a gear guy at heart, but-

Taylor West: Once, very early on in the Marijuana Today podcasting recordings, I recorded my entire part of the show in Garage Band with, not a filter. What are they called? The thing that made me sound like I was speaking from the mountain top handing down Ten Commandments. I had no idea, and I just passed on the track to Shea, who then had to mix it in with the rest of the voices. And I spent ... Apparently that whole podcast just sounded like I was speaking from heaven. So you know, things can go wrong, but you keep movin'.

Seth Adler: yeah.

Shea Gunther: You'd get it up and then you would just forget about it, 'cause you got a next show, yeah.

Shea Gunther: Seth, how 'bout you? What do you use for gear?

Seth Adler: I mean, we've gone over the basics. What I would add to this is that I used to carry these stands and don't anymore, so if you hear someone moving their microphone around, 'cause I use handhelds, that's why. It's so that I don't have to carry around a bunch of basses. But I do carry around two different recording devices everywhere I go. So-

Shea Gunther: That's good, redundancy.

Seth Adler: Indeed. I have two recorders to record all my stuff, so yes, that's it.

Taylor West: Actually I have a question along those lines. How do you store the audio for the longterm, because these files get huge and I feel like that's another piece that I don't hear much about.

Shea Gunther: So I mean, they're all stored on our server. So when you actually download a show, they're all there. But then I mean, you all should be backing up your data at home, at your offices. I'm sure you all are. I have backup services and backup services.

Taylor West: Just use cloud services and that kinda thing?

Shea Gunther: Yeah. I have it saved many places. 'Cause if those MP3 files disappear, then my company's gone.

Seth Adler: Do you do more than two? 'Cause I do terrestrial and cloud.

Shea Gunther: Oh, I have two backups.

Seth Adler: Two backups. So you have three version of the-

Shea Gunther: Yeah.

Seth Adler: Wow, that's good.

Shea Gunther: 'Cause I've lost files, and it's ... No. No more files.

Shea Gunther: Okay so we just have a couple minutes left in our show. We're gonna do, with our show we have a segment at the end called finishing moves. It's where, basically ... Well, it's time for finishing moves.

Speaker 9: Finishing moves.

Shea Gunther: So finishing moves is the part of our show where our regulars get to talk about whatever they want, because yeah. Because they should. So Taylor, what's your finishing move?

Taylor West: This week I'm going to send a little shout out to my husband who is home with a one-year-old baby and also planning for our big annual holiday party, which is happening tomorrow, which we scheduled before I knew I was gonna be in New York for three days. So just a chance to say thanks to him for making it possible for me to come do this, and also have a party.

Group: Awe.

Shea Gunther: And how hardcore Taylor is, she's getting up tomorrow at what? 4:00 in the morning here?

Taylor West: My flight out is at 7:00 am.

Shea Gunther: Flying home.

Taylor West: I promised him I would come home as early as I could tomorrow so that I can at least help get the house together for the party.

Shea Gunther: So she is suffering for all of your ears right now.

Shea Gunther: All right, Bruce?

Bruce Barcott: You know, I'll just put in a plug for our new podcast that's coming online next week. It's called the High Life. It's a one-hour interview show. My new favorite place in the world is Canada, because I got to spend a bunch of time up there when they went legal in October. And this is an interview show starring Ian Campeau, who was one of the co founders of a band called A Tribe Called Red, and Sarah Hanlon, who actually won the third season of Big Brother Canada up there. She's a kick, man. Anyway, this odd couple, they get together and they interview very fascinating Canadians who just happen to share an affinity for cannabis. That's all they have in common. We've got some old punk rockers on there, hardcore social workers, work in downtown Toronto in harm reduction activities and also to people involved in the cannabis industry. Not necessarily involved in the cannabis industry, though. Great mix of people. Look for it. It's called the High Life, and if you just google Leafly and podcasts, you'll find it next week.

Shea Gunther: Seth? What's your move?

Seth Adler: I'm gonna plug science and research. We're gonna need some more information about the plant for this thing to keep rollin', so go scientists!

Seth Adler: And there you have. Three different appearances. Very much appreciate your time. Stay tuned.

Read the full transcript:

Become a member to access to webinars, quarterly reports, contributor columns, shows, excerpts, and complete podcast transcripts

Become a Member

Already a member? Login here.

Subscribe now to get every episode.

Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.