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Ep. 397: US Congressman David Joyce

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep. 397: US Congressman David Joyce

Ep. 397: US Congressman David Joyce

Congressman David Joyce talks about the various pieces of new legislation that have been slowly but surely advancing cannabis. However, there is still much to be done, especially in educating the opposition about the benefits of cannabis for states rights, businesses, and even drug abuse in order to form a bi-partisan coalition. A common comparison of cannabis to harder drugs should be dispelled through showing how it does not hold the same risks, and legalization can even help alleviate the risks of harder drugs regarding crime and substance abuse.

Transcript:

Seth Adler: Congressman David Joyce, thanks so much for giving us some time. Your name in this field has risen like a rocket ship, sir. Some of that is because your name is emblazoned across the STATES act. Let's begin there, shall we?

David Joyce: Sure. The STATES Act will hopefully bring those states that have found it fitting to either have full legal or at least medicinal or some form of cannabis activity sanctioned by the legislature or the vote of the people. My position is that if the states are willing to do that, then the federal government should get out their way and not interfere with the enterprises there because the businesses are all legitimate going concerns that are ratified by the states, the corporations existing under state law, the activity in which they're engaged is all dictated by state law. Then the federal government is best to leave them alone and let them do what they do best.

Seth Adler: Perfect. All right. We love it. Podcast line knows no time, but you guys voted for the what I call the hemp bill.

David Joyce: Sure.

Seth Adler: Other people call it the farm bill yesterday. Some of what's in the STATES Act already accomplished happen no longer on the Controlled Substances Act.

David Joyce: Correct. The beauty of it is that solely but surely we're making this progress here and STATES Act was one. It's not exactly what we need. I mean it's not all the legislations that's necessary to get cannabis to where it needs to go, but it was certainly a step in the right direction. A matter of fact, I've been chatting with Senator Gardner this afternoon about how we're going to develop ... If we can get it done this year, that'll be one thing. I don't see it happening though, but at least having the same bicameral/bipartisan approach to getting this all resolved in the next congress.

Seth Adler: Yeah. Getting this all resolved in the next congress. I read through the STATES Act. I think that there might be ... I would love some clarity here-

David Joyce: Sure.

Seth Adler: ... as far as banking and 280E reform. Is that in the STATES Act? Not necessary.

David Joyce: No. I followed up first last year in the Criminal Justice Services, CJUS Bill and put in an amendment that said the federal government, the Justice Department, should not spend any money to chase any of these cannabis activities in states in which it's found to be legal or ratified, authorized, however you want to approach it. The problem is that when we try to do it on the finance end, I end up getting in ... It was a long debate.

Seth Adler: Right.

David Joyce: Unfortunately, people who told me they were with me left me as we were in the room during the debate, but you have some of the older members who then immediately conflate that cannabis will ... "I know somebody who's got addicted and died from a heroin overdose or an opioid overdose." I'm like, "Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Listen."

Seth Adler: I'm talking about two different things.

David Joyce: Right. Let's not conflate the two.

Seth Adler: Just because you don't like driving cars doesn't mean you don't like driving trucks, right? They look similar. Maybe they act the same, but those are two different things.

David Joyce: Correct. You have to have a special license to operate a truck.

Seth Adler: There we go.

David Joyce: It's one of those things where this is obviously sanctioned by the state, but it's licensed by the state. I was ready for all the arguments that come. We don't want kids to get it. I don't want kids to get it. We think the cartels are going to get involved if there's opening at the banking activity. Well, I don't see how that's going to happen because no bank is going to take money unless you're a legitimate going concern ratified by the state.

Seth Adler: Congressman David Joyce, thanks so much for giving us some time. Your name in this field has risen like a rocket ship, sir. Some of that is because your name is emblazoned across the STATES act. Let's begin there, shall we?

David Joyce: Sure. The STATES Act will hopefully bring those states that have found it fitting to either have full legal or at least medicinal or some form of cannabis activity sanctioned by the legislature or the vote of the people. My position is that if the states are willing to do that, then the federal government should get out their way and not interfere with the enterprises there because the businesses are all legitimate going concerns that are ratified by the states, the corporations existing under state law, the activity in which they're engaged is all dictated by state law. Then the federal government is best to leave them alone and let them do what they do best.

Seth Adler: Perfect. All right. We love it. Podcast line knows no time, but you guys voted for the what I call the hemp bill.

David Joyce: Sure.

Seth Adler: Other people call it the farm bill yesterday. Some of what's in the STATES Act already accomplished happen no longer on the Controlled Substances Act.

David Joyce: Correct. The beauty of it is that solely but surely we're making this progress here and STATES Act was one. It's not exactly what we need. I mean it's not all the legislations that's necessary to get cannabis to where it needs to go, but it was certainly a step in the right direction. A matter of fact, I've been chatting with Senator Gardner this afternoon about how we're going to develop ... If we can get it done this year, that'll be one thing. I don't see it happening though, but at least having the same bicameral/bipartisan approach to getting this all resolved in the next congress.

Seth Adler: Yeah. Getting this all resolved in the next congress. I read through the STATES Act. I think that there might be ... I would love some clarity here-

David Joyce: Sure.

Seth Adler: ... as far as banking and 280E reform. Is that in the STATES Act? Not necessary.

David Joyce: No. I followed up first last year in the Criminal Justice Services, CJUS Bill and put in an amendment that said the federal government, the Justice Department, should not spend any money to chase any of these cannabis activities in states in which it's found to be legal or ratified, authorized, however you want to approach it. The problem is that when we try to do it on the finance end, I end up getting in ... It was a long debate.

Seth Adler: Right.

David Joyce: Unfortunately, people who told me they were with me left me as we were in the room during the debate, but you have some of the older members who then immediately conflate that cannabis will ... "I know somebody who's got addicted and died from a heroin overdose or an opioid overdose." I'm like, "Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Listen."

Seth Adler: I'm talking about two different things.

David Joyce: Right. Let's not conflate the two.

Seth Adler: Just because you don't like driving cars doesn't mean you don't like driving trucks, right? They look similar. Maybe they act the same, but those are two different things.

David Joyce: Correct. You have to have a special license to operate a truck.

Seth Adler: There we go.

David Joyce: It's one of those things where this is obviously sanctioned by the state, but it's licensed by the state. I was ready for all the arguments that come. We don't want kids to get it. I don't want kids to get it. We think the cartels are going to get involved if there's opening at the banking activity. Well, I don't see how that's going to happen because no bank is going to take money unless you're a legitimate going concern ratified by the state.

Seth Adler: Well, let's take that tangent, right, because FinCEN Guidance was released in tandem with the third coal memo, right? Everybody always just likes to talk about the second coal memo. That's the coal memo. I like to call them the coal memos because there were three of them, but FinCEN Guidance was not rescinded with the coal memos.

David Joyce: Correct.

Seth Adler: As far the U.S. Treasury is concerned, it is my understanding that federal banks are still okay to bank.

David Joyce: Well, you know, the day I was getting my butt kicked there in the hearing, there was Secretary Mnuchin on TV talking about the need for it.

Seth Adler: There we go.

David Joyce: Boy, I wish I would have had this yesterday.

Seth Adler: Exactly.

David Joyce: 24 hours too late.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

David Joyce: We have to have these discussions. The discussion was healthy and a lot of people come up to me afterwards on both sides. I'll say that they really appreciated the fact that you stand there and fight and go through those issues. Like you said, when you talk about having some type of standards like you do with alcohol. Okay. Alcohol, at 02 you're impaired and at 08 you're under the influence. Well, you know, now just take Ohio for example. You can have somebody who has it's not a prescription, but it's an authorization. Therefore, they get it from the doctor. They'll take it to the pharmacy.
The pharmacy or dispensary will release this to them and then they take the substance for whatever one of the 12 right now issues that the Ohio let's people get it for.

Seth Adler: Qualifying conditions.

David Joyce: Correct. But now they go to work and they go to take the test and they fail the test because they're given something by a doctor that's covered by HIPPA, their condition. One thing I've heard throughout the district when I was home in August was people was talking about it's a hard time having a workforce, keeping the workforce. One of the last lunches I did was the Society of Human Resource Managers brought this up. They're like, "Boy, if we could just get that cured, we can put so many more people to work." It's not fair for employers either because the person's a good employee, but because of this test now, what says that they can't at least stack boxes, fill boxes, push broom.
Okay, maybe they can't drive the tow motor, but let's figure out what the activity is. But again, we have to have studies. We have to allow the state universities in which these STATES ... Because as you know, the origin of the initial STATES cultivation is like manna from heaven. It just drops. No one knows where those seeds came home.

Seth Adler: Sure. Yeah. We don't know. Yeah. Exactly. I mean they don't even know ... It's completely off topic, but in The Netherlands, the coffee shops literally that comes from nowhere. It's the same thing, but go on, please.

David Joyce: Here's the argument again is that if somebody is legitimately given say ambient, you get ambient in Ohio. You get ambient in California. It's the same ambient or at least it might be a different maker, but it's still the same product. Well, whatever you're taking it for, your medicinal purposes, it should be the same all throughout the state and all throughout the country. But somebody comes from another state and they're been taking kush and then now all of a sudden they get to Ohio and they'll say, "This kush is not what I was taking. I don't feel good."

Seth Adler: Right.

David Joyce: We have to educate each state to do the testing necessary so people can properly and the dispensaries can properly make the acknowledgement of this is exactly what you need for the conditions that you are exhibiting.

Seth Adler: 100%. It seems like we should do something about those names, don't you think? I mean come on. We're in a different atmosphere here. Maybe we can kind of use some different monikers. It might help-

David Joyce: That's true.

Seth Adler: ... as far as your friends that you speak to who you sound reasonable and then all of a sudden you start talking, "Wait a second." That's the banking, that's the 280E thing. There is no fix in the house as far as legislature that I am aware of. Please educate me. For 280E right now, the only thing I read is that it's in Wyden's Bill in the senate.

David Joyce: Carlos Cabello had something that was percolating inside the Ways and Means Committee that ...

Seth Adler: But now he's gone, right?

David Joyce: Right.

Seth Adler: Someone can pick that up.

David Joyce: Yeah. We plan on picking it up in the next year and trying to get it back in.

Seth Adler: But again, that's outside of the STATES Act.

David Joyce: Correct. Because it's an important process. I mean the financial aspect of this, again, if these are all legitimate going concerns ratified by their state and so are these state credit unions and state banks, no one wants to be bothered with the fact that they might lose their FDIC insurance program, so they're not going to take the chance. But if somebody wants to get involved in it in the states, let the states do it. They shouldn't lose this. Because let's face it, they're making money. That money can be then used back in the community to help people get loans and start new businesses, pizza shop.

Seth Adler: Conduct businesses as usual type of thing.

David Joyce: The normal banking activity versus having it sit in somebody's safe and someone's warehouses. That's one thing. I tell you what's really been eye opening is go around in Colorado and the different spots and see the cultivation and the seed to sale and how much work is done to it. At the end of the day, have the ... The mayor of Denver was in here talking to me about how they have to get armored cars to move the money. But as you know, if you spend $10,000 on a car or say $12,000 to break the threshold of 10 cash on the car, all of a sudden, you set off bells and whistles. But hey, make sure your $100,000 is properly wrapped so we could take in as taxes. It just doesn't make sense.

Seth Adler: Right. Literally does not add up. As far ...

David Joyce: While you're on that point, I mean you look at these things and you look at all the workers that are being employed, why aren't payroll taxes and their expenses being ... That's all part of doing business. The cost of goods sold should also include that and they should get the same relief under the tax code that everybody else is entitled to.

Seth Adler: I'll tell you, once we get this thing all worked out over the next years, hopefully sooner, these entrepreneurs need to be looked at for some pretty large businesses I would imagine, right, if they've been able to have successful businesses with their arms and legs tied behind their backs. I mean come on.

David Joyce: When you go and visit, everybody seems very happy. They enjoy the work they're doing, the botanists and the people who are working in the field. They're more than happy to explain what's going on to you. But again, when I went to the one that was developed in our district, I saw a room twice the size of this office that was being built just to hold product and cash.

Seth Adler: That's it.

David Joyce: The security plan is like Fort Knox. That just doesn't make sense.

Seth Adler: Bit for a plant. Yeah. That's a vote coming up, which is nice. No. No. That's business getting done. As an American, I'm pleased. You know? You're not our ordinary average guy. I'll speak to Congressman Blumenauer later today. He'll have his bicycle pin on and his bow tie and we will talk differently. You're not traditionally a cannabis guy. You look like a regular guy from Ohio. What was it that made you aware of the issue and why is it so important to you that you're putting your name on bills?

David Joyce: Well, I was 25 years of prosecutor before I got here and it was actually a school shooting that drove me over the edge. I said, "I just don't want to do this anymore." My friend who was a congressman decided to retire and I enjoyed public service and so the timing was right for me and I got involved. I got here and the office next to mine was a guy named Sam Farr from California. I happen to be on Military Construction and Veterans Affairs Subcommittee and Appropriations. He was talking about the fact that in California at that point it was medicinal and that he had one of the finest VA hospitals everybody's had in Monterey, and yet they could not prescribe this to veterans at the VA facility and it was good for PTSD.

Seth Adler: Right.

David Joyce: I mean that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I was walking back with him back one day and we're talking about it. He said, "Well, I really wish you'd get involved." From my days as a prosecutor, let's face it, I had to take a long time to convince my law enforcement friends that let's not waste a lot of money on this. Let's waste money and time and energy on heroin and things that are really killing kids, right? We've already lost more kids to drugs and opioid overdoses and heroin overdoses than we have to be in a war.
I was more targeted focus because I never saw cannabis as being this activity that really drove people to break into other people's homes or drive 100 miles an hour and kill folks at the end of the day. That was fully legal, alcohol.

Seth Adler: Sure.

David Joyce: I had a bent towards that it's moving in this direction. Once I saw what was happening in California and Colorado and to be truthful, once you saw the tax revenue, you know every state and every county and every city is looking to plug holes in their budget and their taxes. Then you started to watch the flow of it. Then as they start to get more involved, I mean you heard about the businesses that are there and how they were as you said fighting with both arms tied behind their back to exist and doing something that is actually helping folks, I don't deny for a moment that people have pain. We prescribe opioids like they were candy.
Why wouldn't we give people the opportunity to have something that actually will take away their pain and make them feel better? The more I got involved and the more I've seen of it, the more I really think time has come. It's not going to happen quite as quickly as my dear friend Earl Blumenauer will say. I don't believe because I think it's necessary to have the hearings. Let the American public see the facts and hear the facts and understand that this is what the trade it. It's not three guys in the woods. It's not cocktails. It's legitimate companies where people go to work everyday happy, employed, and are part of their community. It's going to continue to be a part of the community.
I think the major investments lately by Constellation in Altria will also help focus people on-

Seth Adler: That's what I was going to say.

David Joyce: ... those aspect.

Seth Adler: That's it. I mean it used to be small business. It's now getting to be bigger business. These are global companies, some of them, who are traded on national stock exchanges. I mean come on. Sam Farr of Rohrabacher–Farr, right?

David Joyce: Yes.

Seth Adler: Rohrabacher–Farr amendment. I just heard through my interviews on the hill, it's an interesting time with some folks moving in, some folks moving out, that we still might have an issue as far as the Rohrabacher–Farr amendment being part of the budget that we're voting on or is that maybe pearl clutching?

David Joyce: The Rohrabacher–Farr amendment doesn't exist anymore as mine because Sam is retired and Dean is going to be on.

Seth Adler: No. No. No. It's Rohrabacher-Blumenauer now. I'm saying in this congress, the one that we're still in 2018, and again, podcast line knows no time, this will probably be heard in 2019, but is there an issue with that amendment being part of the budget?

David Joyce: To finish out this year, it's not in ... The only things that we've actually got in was the amendment that I got into the Criminal Justice Service Bill that prohibited the Justice Department in law enforcement end of it from getting involved in states where it's found to have been legal.

Seth Adler: Great.

David Joyce: Again, I lost on the financial service end of it, trying to get that accomplished.

Seth Adler: Got it.

David Joyce: We proposed the STATES Act, which Senator Gardner has already had discussion with the president and then he would sign if we can get it passed.

Seth Adler: Fantastic.

David Joyce: I don't see a window for that here in the next two weeks.

Seth Adler: No. No.

David Joyce: But certainly as we go in, that's part of the strategy like I was saying before. We're going to discuss on how to get it into '19.

Seth Adler: As we move into 2019, it's a different congress. It's kind of the same senate sort of thing. What are your thoughts? I mean yes, we've spoken to the president. Yes, we've got Gardner who's obviously Republican and now pushing for that, getting it out of the house.

David Joyce: Yes, and Senator Warren.

Seth Adler: Of course. Of course. What I'm saying is getting it out of the house, do you see that feasible in your kind of renewed conversations with new leadership coming in? Is that extremely viable so that we can at least get it to the senate and then we'll fight that battle once we get there?

David Joyce: Well, when I got up in the financial services one, I didn't have any problem with the Democrats. The trouble was we were outnumbered 29 to 22.

Seth Adler: Okay.

David Joyce: I was counting on the Republicans who fled from in. Some of the older Democrats, like some of the older Republicans, conflate it with heroin and other things and this is bad stuff for America. When you look at the changes that have been made in the house and the people who left of their accord or got beat versus the people coming in, I haven't been able to weigh the sentiments of all the freshman, but it certainly would seem that we're moving in the right direction. Earl and I have talked, as you notice the lovely fruitcake there that Earl baked for me and brought down yesterday.

Seth Adler: Look at that. Look at that.

David Joyce: It's part of this holiday tradition to give this.

Seth Adler: Of course, in green wrapping, right?

David Joyce: And some delicious ice cream too as well. Earl has become a good friend and we are continuing to work on a bipartisan strategy.

Seth Adler: Good.

David Joyce: The Republicans who are interested in our issue have gravitated towards me and certainly he's done a great job at trying to educate the new leaders in his party who are going to be taking over chairs and why it's so important to us. I love Earl's energy as far as how he's going to get this done and all the things he thinks we can get done in '19, but I've only been here six years but I've found that unfortunately the process is very painful and moves very, very slow. Glacier-like I guess would be the best way to put it.

Seth Adler: Right.

David Joyce: But if we can at least have the hearings, STATES Act, and get those things ratified that we need so the businesses can continue to operate, so banks can continue to get to do their job and get involved and allow these businesses to have the necessary deductions and be treated like any other taxable corporation, then I think that'll be a big move for us and then it'll continue through these hearing process to evolve. Then as you find out what the other problems are in the industry, continue to fix those problems as well.

Seth Adler: You brought up veterans early on. There's a little bit of a bill about allowing the VA to do some research around the plant.

David Joyce: Yes.

Seth Adler: Feels like that's something that obviously makes sense to someone like you.

David Joyce: Absolutely. I mean again, you want to have the research. As soon as I talk about research, one of the guys who was completely against it was Dr. Harris, Andy Harris, from Maryland. He starts, "Well, there's no research done. We want research. We want these things to be done, but we want to allow the states ..." You know, he's from Maryland. Let the University of Maryland do the studies in Maryland as to what they are. Let's let Ohio State or whatever state university or any university in the state. If they want to do the research, let them have the ability to do that research without fear of federal intrusion.

Seth Adler: Right. It could be the Ohio State. It could be Michigan University.

David Joyce: Now, wait a minute. Well, actually Michigan ... Ann Arbor was one of the first ones to say I think it was up to announce was legal. More than that, Ohio followed suit, right, shortly after that. In Ohio, three and a half ounces of marijuana was a minor misdemeanor. It's $100 fine like a traffic ticket.

Seth Adler: Right.

David Joyce: Even if I gave you a joint, then that was technically a transfer, a sale. But if you just got caught with it, that's one thing, but that sale technically was a fourth degree felony or then a fifth degree felony.

Seth Adler: As a prosecutor, because you've got your prosecutor hat on when you said that because your eyes changed.

David Joyce: It never goes off.

Seth Adler: I would imagine. In Alaska, the City of Franklin was the original regulator. Lori Ajax, former prosecutor, regulator in California. You, obviously, with the work that you're doing. You have a different point of view being on the prosecutorial side of ... Should we call it the war on drugs or should we at least just limit it to cannabis? Share with us I guess what your thoughts are at how that evolution occurs specifically to a prosecutor's mind.

David Joyce: Let's stop BS-ing each other. We've lost that war on drugs decades ago. We've spent how many trillion of dollars now trying to enforce laws and obviously haven't done too good a job. Not just cannabis, but I'm talking about the whole spectrum of illegal or elicit drugs. But the sad part is that we continue to chase our tail by not recognizing things like cannabis do have an effective use. One thing that was really amazing to me was when I was at an event in Ohio. They were showing about all the medicinal uses for cannabis and for cocaine back in its day. I mean in the 1800s and stuff how people were using it to take care of ...

Seth Adler: In pharmacies. Yeah.

David Joyce: Yeah, and relieve pain. Just think how long ago Absinthe just became legal.

Seth Adler: Again.

David Joyce: Yes. You look at some of these things, the evolution of it. We have to start to be more clear, right, about the focus on how we're going to spend our money and really focus on things like this heroin epidemic because from my understanding, it's like the devil itself. Once people ingest it, they spend the rest of their time chasing that first high, which never seems to get accomplished and unfortunately results in either death or overdoses. I really think we need to rethink how we approach the whole spectrum of drugs. Our agency coming up through the system now realize that hey, this is something we need to look at and we prioritize.
The people who are damning all of this in one fell swoop are starting to age out and realize that they're not in congress anymore or state legislators. I think it'd be effective. It'll be nice to have an attorney general who understood the position and actually got onboard with us and try to redefine the way we're going about it.

Seth Adler: Yeah. We agree on that. Absolutely. All right. I've got three final questions for you. I did want to talk about other issues. We don't have time for that, but one other issue I certainly want to bring up is the national debt. I know that that is something that is close to your heart if I'm not mistaken.

David Joyce: Yeah.

Seth Adler: Obviously it's a difficult thing and it's complex and it's nuanced, but what might be maybe one sentence or two that we should focus on as far as maybe solving that issue?

David Joyce: Well, we can't continue on the road run. Before I got here never thinking I was ever going to be in congress, when my kids turned 14 and they started working, people are like, "Oh, I can't believe you make a kid work." No. One, you got to learn the value of work, but two, it was because Kelly and I would put away money in their IRA for them. Because I knew from doing the math, social security wasn't going to exist for these kids even though they're bringing it into the system. We're lying to our younger generation. We're putting this money in that they're going to get anything out. You look it just 30 some odd years ago, 65% of the American budget was discretionary and 35% was mandatory.
We flipped that. It's now like 68% mandatory, 32% discretionary. We're not going to cut our way back, but we have to be truthful with folks. We can't scare seniors every election season. So far I've got hit with the same thing. I want to take away social security. I don't. People who are on it, they need to stand.

Seth Adler: Right.

David Joyce: But we also have to stop lying to these kids. We're going to have smoothing or something or have a national discussion on what it's going to take to get the benefits still there for younger people and make sure the people that we've already made this promise to we take through it.

Seth Adler: Yeah, because we got to keep our promises so to speak, right?

David Joyce: Right. Because unfortunately, the people who are on it, a lot of them this is their sole source of income.

Seth Adler: Because states are different. As you well know, 15 is the age for us in New York. For my 15th birthday, my father presented with a birthday gift, which were my working papers. Enjoy, son. Three final questions, I'll tell you what they are. I'll ask you them in order. What's most surprised you in cannabis? What's most surprised you in life? On the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on there? But first thing's first, what has surprised you most in cannabis?

David Joyce: Well, the business aspect of it. I think it's an eye opener for anybody. The first time that they go to any type of cultivation activity and see the start to finish of the program and the product and how everything is ... Even stuff that falls on the floor it goes back into a bin, be measured again so there's not any leakage if you will. Second one was?

Seth Adler: What's most surprised you in life?

David Joyce: What's most surprised me in life is that ... I guess the biggest surprise when I got here was that all of us get here and say, "We want to do the right thing," and I don't doubt for a minute that the 435 members of congress all love their country deeply. We just happen to see how we're going to resolve those difference differently. It just surprises me that friends who say like, "I'm with you. I'm with you. I'm with you," and then when it comes time to vote we vote strictly in our own lanes. That just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Something that I keep going back to like why do we get off track here. I just think that we need to fix that.

Seth Adler: You got C-SPAN on in here.

David Joyce: Just to let you know that I got to go.

Seth Adler: Well, yeah, we got to go. Exactly. But I think maybe turning off the other channels no matter what channels they are, that'll help.

David Joyce: Absolutely. When I was a kid, my parents used to watch Walter Cronkite. It was just the news. It wasn't a flavored news.

Seth Adler: Here's what it is.

David Joyce: Right. Now you pick the channel boudoir that feeds whatever. If you hate the president, this is your channel. If you love the president, that's-

Seth Adler: That's for you. Exactly. It's crazy.

David Joyce: It's gotten to the point now where it's C-SPAN or CNBC because, you know, I like to follow those, see what's happening with [crosstalk 00:26:30]

Seth Adler: Yeah. Well, that's also true. But I mean, you know, since the economic apocalypse, that's what I call it, I do like to keep an eye on what's going on with those folks as well just because hey, I don't like to be surprised so much.

David Joyce: No. That's true. True.

Seth Adler: On the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's ...

David Joyce: Born to Run.

Seth Adler: There we go. Look at you. Some Bruce Springsteen from down the block.

David Joyce: Started off when I was just at the University of Dayton and my buddies from Jersey turned me onto him and haven't been able to get rid of him since. Every Friday night at 5 o'clock, they would play that on WMMS, which is the king station in Cleveland.

Seth Adler: That's fantastic. We'll check in with you down the line, sir.

David Joyce: Look forward to it. Thank you.

Seth Adler: There you have U.S. Congressman David Joyce. Very much appreciate his time. Very much appreciate your time. Stay tuned.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.