Ep. 400: US Congressman Tom McClintock

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Ep. 400: US Congressman Tom McClintock

Ep. 400: US Congressman Tom McClintock

US Congressman Tom McClintock joins us and shares how partisan issues shouldn’t reflect on the subject of Cannabis legalization: “I think the concern among the leadership was that it divided the Republicans and they didn’t want such a divisive issue on the floor. I don’t get that because, as you pointed out many times, this is not a partisan issue. I’m a Conservative Republican, Jared Polis is a Liberal Democrat, and yet we both agree that is none of the federal government’s business what state policies are enacted regarding cannabis.”

Transcript:

Seth Adler: U.S. Congressman Tom McClintock returns. Welcome to Cannabis Economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Download episodes on canneconomy.com. That's two N's and the word economy. First a word from me, Evolab, and then US Congressman Tom McClintock.

Speaker 2: Entourage effect, I mean, is interesting. I think entourage of course is alluding to the idea the number of terpenes and other cannabinoids and sequest terpenes and things in the plant, and that we really don't know what all of those things do. So we want to try to get the most benefit out of them.

Seth Adler: Right.

Speaker 2: I think we're really going a step further than that. We're taking what we can get out of science, choosing the cannabinoids that we want purposefully to put into the products that we're creating, and then we're compounding those with other of the botanical ingredients that are beneficial. So for example, the intensive body oil that we produce now has collagen and rosacamena in it for scar reduction. So really looking more to create products that are purposeful rather than just simply a cannabinoid in a base.

Tom McClintock: Tom McClintock, and I'm sitting.

Seth Adler: You are sitting. Sitting Congressman here for the great state of California, and podcast land knows no time. But I'm here on an interesting day. This is kind of move out day or move out week as we make our way into this next Congress. And I'm here to talk about cannabis legislation, right? So I don't care who's coming in and who's going out, as long as you have a sensible approach to cannabis.

Tom McClintock: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler: Right? That's where I'm coming from. You very early on with now governor elect Polis, introduced the McClintock-Polis Amendment.

Tom McClintock: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler: It's something that did not pass. It's something that certainly can pass.

Tom McClintock: It came a lot closer than we thought though.

Seth Adler: Indeed. Just within a few votes.

Tom McClintock: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler: As you look to the next Congress, I guess the easy question is do we know who replaces Polis on that namesake amendment if you're going to reintroduce it?

Tom McClintock: I haven't had any discussions yet. But I'll certainly want to reintroduce it either as a sponsor or a cosponsor.

Seth Adler: Okay. Excellent. And what it does is it protects ...

Tom McClintock: It gets the federal government out of the business of regulating marijuana in intrastate sells.

Seth Adler: Because why would they, right?

Tom McClintock: Well, they have no authority to. The interstate commerce clause is very clear that Congress's authority only extends to interstate commerce, commerce between states. But much to the cannabis industry is local.

Seth Adler: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tom McClintock: It's locally grown, locally distributed, locally consumed, and therefore out of the per view of the federal government's attention or at least its powers.

Seth Adler: U.S. Congressman Tom McClintock returns. Welcome to Cannabis Economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Download episodes on canneconomy.com. That's two N's and the word economy. First a word from me, Evolab, and then US Congressman Tom McClintock.

Speaker 2: Entourage effect, I mean, is interesting. I think entourage of course is alluding to the idea the number of terpenes and other cannabinoids and sequest terpenes and things in the plant, and that we really don't know what all of those things do. So we want to try to get the most benefit out of them.

Seth Adler: Right.

Speaker 2: I think we're really going a step further than that. We're taking what we can get out of science, choosing the cannabinoids that we want purposefully to put into the products that we're creating, and then we're compounding those with other of the botanical ingredients that are beneficial. So for example, the intensive body oil that we produce now has collagen and rosacamena in it for scar reduction. So really looking more to create products that are purposeful rather than just simply a cannabinoid in a base.

Tom McClintock: Tom McClintock, and I'm sitting.

Seth Adler: You are sitting. Sitting Congressman here for the great state of California, and podcast land knows no time. But I'm here on an interesting day. This is kind of move out day or move out week as we make our way into this next Congress. And I'm here to talk about cannabis legislation, right? So I don't care who's coming in and who's going out, as long as you have a sensible approach to cannabis.

Tom McClintock: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler: Right? That's where I'm coming from. You very early on with now governor elect Polis, introduced the McClintock-Polis Amendment.

Tom McClintock: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler: It's something that did not pass. It's something that certainly can pass.

Tom McClintock: It came a lot closer than we thought though.

Seth Adler: Indeed. Just within a few votes.

Tom McClintock: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler: As you look to the next Congress, I guess the easy question is do we know who replaces Polis on that namesake amendment if you're going to reintroduce it?

Tom McClintock: I haven't had any discussions yet. But I'll certainly want to reintroduce it either as a sponsor or a cosponsor.

Seth Adler: Okay. Excellent. And what it does is it protects ...

Tom McClintock: It gets the federal government out of the business of regulating marijuana in intrastate sells.

Seth Adler: Because why would they, right?

Tom McClintock: Well, they have no authority to. The interstate commerce clause is very clear that Congress's authority only extends to interstate commerce, commerce between states. But much to the cannabis industry is local.

Seth Adler: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tom McClintock: It's locally grown, locally distributed, locally consumed, and therefore out of the per view of the federal government's attention or at least its powers.

Seth Adler: Right. So there we go. You're happy to be on board with that still. It was not voted on again and kind of blocked.

Tom McClintock: It was blocked by the Republican leadership in the House. I am embarrassed to say.

Seth Adler: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tom McClintock: And therefore didn't get to the floor.

Seth Adler: Fair enough. And where does that thinking come from because I wonder what we should look out for with a now new Democratic leadership. What was said to you as the reasons for a blocked vote? It doesn't seem like it's partisan. It sounds different than that.

Tom McClintock: I think the concern among the leadership was that it divided the Republicans and they didn't want such a divisive issue on the floor. I don't get that because, as you pointed out many times, this is not a partisan issue. I'm a Conservative Republican, Jared Polis is a Liberal Democrat, and yet we both agree that is none of the federal government's business what state policies are enacted regarding cannabis. And for that matter and by sort of libertarian view, it's none of my business what somebody wants to smoke as long as they're an adult and able to make those decisions for themselves.

Seth Adler: It's exactly it. What you're doing in your house, that's the last thing I want to know about.

Tom McClintock: Yeah. I have enough trouble running my own life without trying to run everybody else's in the country, and unfortunately there is a breed of politician here in Washington that thinks they're so good at running their lives that they're entitled to run everybody else's. You get to know them, you realize they're not.

Seth Adler: That is on both sides of the aisle as well though by the way.

Tom McClintock: Sadly it is. I think it's just part of human nature.

Seth Adler: It's an interesting thing. So I wonder when we get into this new Congress and your vote is then now an important bipartisan vote. Do you care about which side you're on as far as a new vote because hey, we're splitting the Republicans, or ...

Tom McClintock: In my view, good policy makes good politics.

Seth Adler: Perfect.

Tom McClintock: And policy on cannabis I think is so very clear. And by the way, I don't use the stuff. I tell you want a weird little kid I was. I grew up in the '70s. I never went near the stuff. I raised my children, my wife and I raised our children never to go near the stuff. And I particularly think that it does do physical harm to children. Science is fairly clear on that.

Seth Adler: Sure.

Tom McClintock: So I'm not advocating the use of marijuana.

Seth Adler: Let's just be clear. My brother-in-law, the neuroscientist, will tell you that child's brain is not fully developed so as far as recreational cannabis use, that's not a good idea. But if the child has ...

Tom McClintock: That's my view as well.

Seth Adler: If the child has epilepsy, maybe we can kind of cut some corners there.

Tom McClintock: Well, point taken. And there ought to be exceptions for that. But my point is this, that our laws have completely, utterly failed to keep marijuana out of the hands of children, and our laws have no business trying to regulate what grown adults choose to do with their lives.

Seth Adler: So here comes the farm bill. I don't know if you've heard about it.

Tom McClintock: Oh yes.

Seth Adler: No, of course. It's rather big news, and within it is legislation that says, "Hey, we're okay growing industrial hemp." That's 0.3% or lower in THC so it's essentially nonexistent, "and let's go make some pins," like the one that Leader McConnell used to sign the final draft.

Tom McClintock: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler: What are you thoughts on that aspect of the plant?

Tom McClintock: Well, that aspect of the farm bill I support. In fact, I carried a bill on the State Senate floor in California years ago to legalize hemp and pointed out that was a staple crop of the American founders. Had our laws been in effect back then, you would have found Thomas Jefferson and George Washington behind a federal bars for growing hemp. So I'm very sympathetic to that. You have to take a look at the overall farm bill however and there are so many bad parts of it.

Seth Adler: What are the bad parts as far as your concerned?

Tom McClintock: Oh, the subsidies to agribusiness are ... Not only do they increase the prices of groceries for us as consumer and consume our tax dollars to do it, they don't even help agriculture. New Zealand found that out years ago.

Seth Adler: Unpack that. Tell me what you mean.

Tom McClintock: New Zealand had a labor government come in facing a fiscal crisis and realized we can't keep paying all these subsidies to our farmers. And by the way, farming was a bunch bigger part of their economy than it is of ours in the United States. They did away with all of the farm subsidies in one fail swoop. There were a number of farmers who couldn't face the future of life without subsidies they committed suicide. The ones who didn't found out within a few years they were doing much better without the subsidies. Farm productivity went up, product diversity went up, a farm profits went up without the subsidies. As you know, the principle part of the farm bill is continuing these subsidies in the United States.

Seth Adler: So it's the continuation of subsidies. We've been doing farm subsidies for quite some time.

Tom McClintock: Yep.

Seth Adler: You're not a big fan of that. Does that mean you would vote against it?

Tom McClintock: I've been that way the entire package. But the lion share of the bill is to continue these idiotic subsidies, and that's a big negative for me right off the starting gate.

Seth Adler: For my point of view, and I'm not a voting member of Congress or a member of Congress non-voting because there's of course Washington D.C., my understanding is that if you add hemp, we don't need the subsidies because here's a new crop to go ahead and farm. Right?

Tom McClintock: I would say we don't need the subsidies on any farm products.

Seth Adler: So let's agree to agree, right? Now as far as that same plant for medical use, I mentioned epilepsy. CBD. This bill does not help that.

Tom McClintock: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler: There is a bill that would kind of remove CBD for use from the controlled substances act. Where do you stand on that seeing the reports and understanding there is starting to be research that says CBD can help those that are really truly afflicted and ailing?

Tom McClintock: Well, as I said, I'm a libertarian on the subject. I don't think we should be regulating it at all. Except, again, for access for children and then I agree with you, there need to be exceptions for medical situations.

Seth Adler: Carve out for medical. Okay. Perfect. So you're okay with that.

Tom McClintock: Yep.

Seth Adler: All right. Let's keep going down. Why not? So we've got the State's Act and the Marijuana Justice Act, right? And the principle parts of those are all about 280E and banking, removing these issues for cannabis business. I would imagine it's full throated support from you on those things.

Tom McClintock: Of course. And for the same reason, these laws that we have in place, these prohibition laws, have accomplished exactly the same thing as the prohibition against alcohol did in the 1920s-30s. They have created a violent, illegal underground market, and the restrictions on banking simply compound that because they then require that all transactions be in cash, which creates an enormous magnet for armed robberies, as well as the lack of a paper trail for business regulation purposes.

Seth Adler: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So all this reads true to you. I'll go one more. You might not know about this one. The VA. Here's some legislation. There's a bill here that we could kind of help them do some research on cannabis and how that might help veterans with PTSD. I've heard specifically one veteran in particular sit in front of the Department of Health of Colorado before they put PTSD on the qualifying contention list and saying, "This helps me. I would not be sitting here today with a suit with my daughter if I didn't have access to cannabis."

Tom McClintock: Well, I'm all for studying the issue, but the fact of the matter is whatever the studies say, that should be that person's individual choice.

Seth Adler: Fair enough.

Tom McClintock: I remember years ago, Bruce Hershenson, he was speaking of tobacco and all the restrictions being placed on tobacco use. But his point is exactly the same for cannabis. He said, "You know, for every pleasure in life, there is a concomitant risk. And it usually is the bigger the pleasure, the bigger the risk." He says, "It is possible with enough laws and enough force and enough police to create a virtually risk free society. But it will also be the most boring, colorless, tedious society you could possibly imagine."

Seth Adler: Exactly.

Tom McClintock: Once people are aware of the risks, and I've always had the opinion that I will be happy to listen to any advice my government wishes to offer. But I'll be damned if I'll take its orders.

Seth Adler: Fair enough. Yeah. But does that mean that you would not vote for that bill as a bill kind of saying to the VA, "Hey, you can research this." I'm trying to understand exactly ...

Tom McClintock: Again, I have no problems researching it. As I said, that adds to the validity of the government's opinions, which is, again, I would entertain and welcome.

Seth Adler: Got it.

Tom McClintock: But when it comes to running my own life, I'll take care of that. Thank you very much.

Seth Adler: I understand. So if ...

Tom McClintock: And that should apply to every veteran as well. They fought for freedom. They ought to be able to enjoy it here at home.

Seth Adler: Just really quickly because this is something that I've been focusing on lately. It is remarkable to me as a Gen X kid that grew up ... Perfect age for Rocky 4. So I'm a true patriot no matter what my politics are. That we could have any issue whatsoever supporting our veterans because that feels like an issue that has support whether it's left, right, up, down, whatever. But yet, still there are issues there. You know more than me obviously. You're here. How could that be that we could be sort of short changing our veterans when they come home?

Tom McClintock: Well, it goes back to Ronald Reagan's point years ago that the oldest lie in human society is I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.

Seth Adler: Okay. I've heard that.

Tom McClintock: Unfortunately, they saddled our veterans with a typical bureaucracy that has all of the hallmarks of a bureaucracy. It is slow, it is riddled with rules, inefficient, lacking a human connection. It is just everything that is bad with bureaucracy.

Seth Adler: So privatizing that would help I would imagine your ...

Tom McClintock: There is a movement for ... It's called VA Choice, and basically we have that law in the books but it's an imperfect one. The fundamental principle behind it is instead of having to wait for months and months and fight your way through the VA bureaucracy for VA healthcare, why don't we just give every veteran a choice card and allow them to take it to the provider that they think will provide them the best service and get rid of that whole bureaucracy. When I offer that to reform to veterans groups, they are 100% on board.

Seth Adler: I wonder about cost and support though, right? If you send me out to the free market, who knows what happens. I understand ...

Tom McClintock: Well, what happens is people compete for your business.

Seth Adler: So the cost would go down.

Tom McClintock: At a lower cost.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Tom McClintock: Will Ariel Durant in their history of civilization asked the question, "What makes Ford a good car?" Chevrolet. Competition. The fact there's somebody down the street doing the same thing. The business goes to those who can offer a better service at a lower price. Healthcare is no different.

Seth Adler: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tom McClintock: And yet we've taken all of that competition, all of that choice out of the system. We began doing that with our veterans, and we ended up with a nightmare of the VA. And now we're trying to saddle every American with the same kind of system, and that just is nuts.

Seth Adler: When you look at 2019, whether it be for cannabis, whether it be for any other issue that is something that you care for and understand that there is different leadership in the House, same leadership in the Senate, obviously same leadership in the White House, what do you hope will be accomplished? What do you think is on the table for change?

Tom McClintock: Well, what I hope will be accomplished and what I'm afraid will be accomplished are two very different things.

Seth Adler: Let's talk about both.

Tom McClintock: What I hope would be accomplished would be in Lincoln's terms, a rebirth of freedom. That's what we've been talking about on the cannabis issue. Freedom works. It's time that we put it back to work, not just with respect to cannabis, with respect to every aspect of our economy and of our individual lives. What I'm afraid is going to happen is pretty much what's been going on. One of my great frustrations, my greatest frustration as a Republican member of the house during the 115th Congress was having a majority here, sending of hundreds of reform bills over to the Senate, and having them blocked because the Senate has refused to reform it's cloture rule.

Seth Adler: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tom McClintock: The cloture rule requires 60 votes before a debate can even begun. Before you can even consider a matter, you have to start with 60 votes out of 100 in the Senate.

Seth Adler: Right.

Tom McClintock: That's ludicrous.

Seth Adler: How can you get there if you haven't even talked about it?

Tom McClintock: It springs from a very good rule. It says that in order to close a debate, you need to have two thirds. So the minority can have the opportunity to convince the majority its way of thinking. And that has degenerated over time into the cloture process, which requires 60 votes before you can begin a debate. So a rule that was supposed to protect the debate has now become a very effective rule at preventing any debate. So very little has actually gotten to the president to sign. With the Democrats in the majority, from my way of thinking, instead of sending good bills over to the Senate to die, we'll be sending bad bills over to the Senate to die. I'm very fearful that we're going to see a lot of heat and very little light over the next two years. But I've been wrong before and I certainly hope I'm wrong now.

Seth Adler: How much of this kind of partisan bickery and bickering can kind of be removed? Crazy ideas like what if we just removed the D's and R's from everything in these ... We're here in Rayburn. You take them all off, and you come to Washington and you do the work. You know what I mean? You just take party out of it once you get in. I understand, okay, fine. We're running. Do it that way. Once you get here.

Tom McClintock: I don't think very little would change in that respect because it is human nature playing out. The fact is that our system was designed, the House in particular was designed to reflect every voice in the country.

Seth Adler: Certainly.

Tom McClintock: The founders when a decision was to be made wanted a great big, ugly food fight. They wanted issues to be held up to every conceivable light. They wanted every voice in the country to be heard. They wanted this great huge fight.

Seth Adler: Yeah. And then up through the ...

Tom McClintock: They wanted it to be very difficult to make laws. That's why Article 1 is written the way it is. That's the first article. It's almost half of the entire constitution, and it begins by proclaiming that all legislative powers here in granted are vested in a Congress of the United States. And they even divided the Congress into two houses, each with a different perspective, to assure that even if there wasn't a big argument within each house, there would at least be an argument between the houses.

Seth Adler: Right. Exactly.

Tom McClintock: So the whole system was designed to work that way.

Seth Adler: Okay.

Tom McClintock: But what's gummed up the process is this notion that before you can take up a bill on the Senate, you have to start with 60 votes.

Seth Adler: Understood on that piece, and that is kind of the problem. There is also a problem with just discussion. So I get to come down here. Every time I come down here, I get to talk about something that many people agree on. So I'm privileged in that way. It doesn't seem though like with veterans or cannabis ...

Tom McClintock: And many people disagree as well.

Seth Adler: Oh, sure.

Tom McClintock: And you're right, those disagreements cross party lines. There are a few issues that do. But the disagreements are just as vigorous and just as heated as any that carry partisan labels. I don't think the partisan label itself changes the nature of the debate that much.

Seth Adler: Okay. On cannabis, I think we've got 66% that appreciate the opportunity for adult use, and then medical is way, way up.

Tom McClintock: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler: We've got ...

Tom McClintock: And look at where that was 10 years ago. So we made enormous progress in those 10 years.

Seth Adler: Leaps and bounds. Absolutely. Since we spoke though, there's been a reinvestment from constellation brands. I don't know if you saw the Altria news.

Tom McClintock: Yes, I did.

Seth Adler: As well. So now here comes big money, and I think that that probably also helps kind of loosen things up as far as legislation. Is that fair to say?

Tom McClintock: I don't think so. No. I haven't seen anybody change their positions over these issues. What I've seen is more and more people coming to Congress who generally believe that people have a right to make their own choices for themselves with a minimum of government interference.

Seth Adler: Yeah.

Tom McClintock: I wish that they would take that view in all matters. But I'm grateful they at least take it with respect to cannabis.

Seth Adler: On where we agree, where all of us agree, do you feel like we can make some headway here in this next year?

Tom McClintock: Yes. Remember, Congress and government in general is a lagging indicator, not a leading indicator.

Seth Adler: As I'm learning.

Tom McClintock: The debate that matters is not the one that's going on on the House floor right now.

Seth Adler: Right.

Tom McClintock: The debate that matters is the one that's going on at Starbucks right now over coffee, over backyard fences, over family dinner tables. It's an ongoing discussion of the American people over the future of their government. As those issues are resolved in that great debate out there among the American people, slowly it becomes reflected in the debate here. The debate here is simply a reflection of the debate that goes on every day among the American people. That's what guides our country.

Seth Adler: Constituents have to decide, and once they decide, we'll change the laws.

Tom McClintock: And we've been watching that occur very steadily over the past 10 years. Even people like me, who would not use marijuana and not advise others to use marijuana ...

Seth Adler: Even adults because we were talking about children before, right?

Tom McClintock: Right. Right. Still I believe very strongly that once people are advised of the risks, it's up to them.

Seth Adler: Final thing, the last time, the last thing we discussed was conceal carry across state lines.

Tom McClintock: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler: And I gave you the idea that we should do that with cannabis, and you thought that was at least a decent idea. Have you thought anymore about that?

Tom McClintock: Yes. You sold me on it during the discussion in our last interview. But I haven't had a chance to do anything on it yet.

Seth Adler: All right. I'm here to help.

Tom McClintock: You're right. Okay. I got it.

Seth Adler: Let's do the three final questions for returning guests, and thank you so much for your time.

Tom McClintock: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Seth Adler: Again. These are a little bit more personal since we now know each other a little bit more. So I'll tell you want they are. I'll ask you them in order. What would you change about yourself if anything? What would you change about anything else if you could? And on the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on there? That's always the final question. So what would you change about yourself if anything? It might be something you're already working on.

Tom McClintock: I'd like to be a lot younger.

Seth Adler: Well, I got bad news.

Tom McClintock: There you go.

Seth Adler: Congressman, I got bad news.

Tom McClintock: You gave me one wish. There it is.

Seth Adler: What would you change about anything else if you could? It might be some of the stuff we were talking about but maybe not.

Tom McClintock: Well, you get to be my age, you kind of get settled in your thinking. So there's not much else of it, and I'd like to be a lot younger. The other thing was ...

Seth Adler: Changing anything else if you could. That's anything. It could be that cloture rule could be the answer.

Tom McClintock: Well, I mean, if I could get one that would express everything it's that great inscription from Leviticus, it's on the Liberty Bell. "Proclaim liberty throughout all the world and in all the inhabitants thereof." If I could work my will, that is what I'd wish for.

Seth Adler: What's the main thing that's in the way of that in your opinion?

Tom McClintock: The inclination that we see particularly on the left ...

Seth Adler: Maybe not.

Tom McClintock: Not entirely on the left, but mainly on the left, to try to control the decisions that free men and women should be making on their own.

Seth Adler: I feel like it makes a whole lot more sense for all of us to remove that language. So particularly on the left, particularly on the right. If those kind of little phrases weren't in language, I feel like ... Because there's the angry middle, right? You know what I mean?

Tom McClintock: Yep.

Seth Adler: And that's what I tell my friends.

Tom McClintock: But I do have to tell you, I see that principally on the left. Not exclusively but principally on the left.

Seth Adler: Okay. But if we just remove that, then we're well on our way with liberty.

Tom McClintock: Fine. Point taken.

Seth Adler: Fair enough. On the soundtrack of your life, one track, one song that's got to be on there.

Tom McClintock: Oh gosh. I don't know. It'd probably be something from The Beatles.

Seth Adler: Oh, what are we going to do? Should we do the Kumbaya. I want to hold your hand.

Tom McClintock: No, no.

Seth Adler: As we get into the next Congress here.

Tom McClintock: That's the way to drop your listenership very fast, very quickly and very permanently. Oh no, I don't mean you singing it.

Seth Adler: Oh, okay. I am saying that's a choice. No, no, no. We don't ... But it's very interesting. There are a few folks that have sung and Congressman [inaudible 00:25:24] is one of them.

Tom McClintock: Oh. Well, I've never heard him sing and frankly ...

Seth Adler: You don't want him to. Exactly. But we'll go with The Beatles, the entire catalog. You can't go wrong.

Tom McClintock: That's right.

Seth Adler: Congressman McClintock. Thank you so much for your time.

Tom McClintock: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Seth Adler: There you have U.S. Congressman Tom McClintock. Very much appreciate his time. Very much appreciate your time. Stay tuned.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.