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Episode #149 – Brian Vicente, Vicente Sederberg Part II

Cannabis Economy Podcast
Episode #149 - Brian Vicente, Vicente Sederberg Part II

Episode #149 – Brian Vicente, Vicente Sederberg Part II

Brian Vicente of Vicente Sederberg returns for an update on
the progression of the cannabis legalization movement.  Brian
discusses current thoughts on consumption legislation, what’s
happening on the ground in Colorado and key states around the
country.  On the one hand we discuss the concept of “first
world marijuana problems,” and the potential ‘full-blown’ end to
prohibition, but we also discuss the forces still working against
legalization and where they might succeed…which is why his song
choice at the end of the conversation makes all the sense in the
world.

Transcript:

Speaker 1: Brian brian,

Speaker 2: of course, have the Sunday Cedarburg returns for an update on the progression of cannabis legalization. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on twitter, facebook, instagram, and on Youtube channel with the handle can economy. That's two ends of the word economy, not the new cannabis economy APP in itunes. You can get us through the itunes podcast APP and Google play. Brian discusses current thoughts on consumption legislation, what's happening on the ground in Colorado and key states around the country. On the one hand, we've discussed the concept of first world marijuana problems and the potential full blown into prohibition, but we also discussed the forces still working against legalization and where they might succeed, which is why his song choice at the end of the conversation makes all the sense in the world.

Speaker 1: Here we are, the set day Cedarburg had headquarters, which continues to be one of the classiest headquarters in all of candidates. We do what we can do. Again. Brian has said to a thank you for, uh, joining us in your office. My pleasure. Little bit of an echo here in the, um, you know, boardroom is what we would call it. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. What was this building originally? This was a private residence. It was built in the late or she in early 19 hundreds and then it's been everything from a jazz club to a French restaurant to campaign headquarters for the governor and all sorts of things. Wow. And apparently it's haunted. They say, Aha. Have you experienced that? I have not. But if you go to the front page of the book onto Denver, this mansion is literally on the cover. This is it.

Speaker 1: This is it. Okay. I think it's a good ghost. If anything. Well, it's, it's certainly helped so far. I mean if they feel like we've done. Okay. So we spoke to you and kind of went into your history last time we talked. Um, and thanks for all the shirts because, uh, that was helpful and I'm now what we want to do. We're kind of making our way into second quarter 2016 and you know, let's talk about the real time history of legal cannabis. So when last, uh, I spoke with you and your guys, Steve Fox, not withstanding a, when I came to Colorado last, we were talking about consumption. We were gonna, we were gonna a crack that nut or go down that rabbit hole where, where are we with consumption? Uh, well, people are still consuming, but uh, you know, that's still working, still working around it has been difficult to get the state and a bigger cities like Denver to move forward with figuring out a sensible solutions to, um, to a public use, you know, indeed.

Speaker 1: Um, so nice word choice by the way. Yeah, there you go. Always branding. I know indeed. Um, you know, we're always, I mean we just have issues where people can come here, they can smoke marijuana, they can buy marijuana, you know, they, that they can't smoke in their hotel rooms against smoking in cars, can't spoken on street corners. So we're actually seeing, you know, a real spike in public consumption tickets. And that's not the, that's not what us authors of legalization or the voters had in mind. That wasn't the point. We want less people arrested for marijuana, not more, and certainly we are arresting a lot less, but they are arresting people, Republican assumption at higher rates. So that's frustrating. So we're basically trying to figure that out. Um, but it, it's been a, we floated about measure, uh, the support wasn't exactly there then the city of Denver indicated they'd work with us and try to figure something out as usual.

Speaker 1: Um, you know, marijuana reform is not something that's led by government officials so that, that we went down that rabbit hole and you know, Kinda got our rabbit head chopped off I guess. And so now we're back kind of considering what to do. Um, there's some discussion of the state legislature just a block away from here about passing some sort of consumption stuff this year. Um, otherwise Denver norml is pushing forward with a ballot measure. We've been at the table kind of helping to draft that. I'm not sure if it's going to move forward definitely or not, but, uh, you know, I'm, I'm glad the conversations happening.

Speaker 3: It, it was, it was striking to me. I just did a tour of spark in San Francisco, beautiful place, beautiful and, and here along the wall here, our patients openly consuming within the dispensary and it was striking based on the conversations that I've had with you and you know, the folks here. Sure. That it was really not an issue at all. And I did ask, I said, yeah,

Speaker 1: you know, how many issues have you had? And they of course said how many zero, right? Yeah, no, that's fine. I, I visited spark probably six or seven years ago and that consumption what's going on and certainly I've had no problems and I think that is important just to focus on for a second, a lot of art discussion about consumption generally as about tourists and you know, how can adults use marijuana recreationally and have this cool social effect of concerts. But I do think it's very notable that it's important that patients are able to have that access as well and go into a place like spark. I mean you can see this sort of, it's almost like a psychosocial effect where you're going in and you're hanging out with other patients. Maybe bud tenders, I don't know, and they're educating you on this and then you're consuming marijuana together and it's sort of, you know, I think there's a communal aspect there that's important for people's healing. Um, and uh, and sort of removing the stigma of, of this medicine and, and so I think there's something to that and I hope we can get to a place like that soon.

Speaker 1: Brian brian,

Speaker 2: of course, have the Sunday Cedarburg returns for an update on the progression of cannabis legalization. Welcome to cannabis economy. I'm your host Seth Adler. Check us out on twitter, facebook, instagram, and on Youtube channel with the handle can economy. That's two ends of the word economy, not the new cannabis economy APP in itunes. You can get us through the itunes podcast APP and Google play. Brian discusses current thoughts on consumption legislation, what's happening on the ground in Colorado and key states around the country. On the one hand, we've discussed the concept of first world marijuana problems and the potential full blown into prohibition, but we also discussed the forces still working against legalization and where they might succeed, which is why his song choice at the end of the conversation makes all the sense in the world.

Speaker 1: Here we are, the set day Cedarburg had headquarters, which continues to be one of the classiest headquarters in all of candidates. We do what we can do. Again. Brian has said to a thank you for, uh, joining us in your office. My pleasure. Little bit of an echo here in the, um, you know, boardroom is what we would call it. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. What was this building originally? This was a private residence. It was built in the late or she in early 19 hundreds and then it's been everything from a jazz club to a French restaurant to campaign headquarters for the governor and all sorts of things. Wow. And apparently it's haunted. They say, Aha. Have you experienced that? I have not. But if you go to the front page of the book onto Denver, this mansion is literally on the cover. This is it.

Speaker 1: This is it. Okay. I think it's a good ghost. If anything. Well, it's, it's certainly helped so far. I mean if they feel like we've done. Okay. So we spoke to you and kind of went into your history last time we talked. Um, and thanks for all the shirts because, uh, that was helpful and I'm now what we want to do. We're kind of making our way into second quarter 2016 and you know, let's talk about the real time history of legal cannabis. So when last, uh, I spoke with you and your guys, Steve Fox, not withstanding a, when I came to Colorado last, we were talking about consumption. We were gonna, we were gonna a crack that nut or go down that rabbit hole where, where are we with consumption? Uh, well, people are still consuming, but uh, you know, that's still working, still working around it has been difficult to get the state and a bigger cities like Denver to move forward with figuring out a sensible solutions to, um, to a public use, you know, indeed.

Speaker 1: Um, so nice word choice by the way. Yeah, there you go. Always branding. I know indeed. Um, you know, we're always, I mean we just have issues where people can come here, they can smoke marijuana, they can buy marijuana, you know, they, that they can't smoke in their hotel rooms against smoking in cars, can't spoken on street corners. So we're actually seeing, you know, a real spike in public consumption tickets. And that's not the, that's not what us authors of legalization or the voters had in mind. That wasn't the point. We want less people arrested for marijuana, not more, and certainly we are arresting a lot less, but they are arresting people, Republican assumption at higher rates. So that's frustrating. So we're basically trying to figure that out. Um, but it, it's been a, we floated about measure, uh, the support wasn't exactly there then the city of Denver indicated they'd work with us and try to figure something out as usual.

Speaker 1: Um, you know, marijuana reform is not something that's led by government officials so that, that we went down that rabbit hole and you know, Kinda got our rabbit head chopped off I guess. And so now we're back kind of considering what to do. Um, there's some discussion of the state legislature just a block away from here about passing some sort of consumption stuff this year. Um, otherwise Denver norml is pushing forward with a ballot measure. We've been at the table kind of helping to draft that. I'm not sure if it's going to move forward definitely or not, but, uh, you know, I'm, I'm glad the conversations happening.

Speaker 3: It, it was, it was striking to me. I just did a tour of spark in San Francisco, beautiful place, beautiful and, and here along the wall here, our patients openly consuming within the dispensary and it was striking based on the conversations that I've had with you and you know, the folks here. Sure. That it was really not an issue at all. And I did ask, I said, yeah,

Speaker 1: you know, how many issues have you had? And they of course said how many zero, right? Yeah, no, that's fine. I, I visited spark probably six or seven years ago and that consumption what's going on and certainly I've had no problems and I think that is important just to focus on for a second, a lot of art discussion about consumption generally as about tourists and you know, how can adults use marijuana recreationally and have this cool social effect of concerts. But I do think it's very notable that it's important that patients are able to have that access as well and go into a place like spark. I mean you can see this sort of, it's almost like a psychosocial effect where you're going in and you're hanging out with other patients. Maybe bud tenders, I don't know, and they're educating you on this and then you're consuming marijuana together and it's sort of, you know, I think there's a communal aspect there that's important for people's healing. Um, and uh, and sort of removing the stigma of, of this medicine and, and so I think there's something to that and I hope we can get to a place like that soon.

Speaker 3: No, absolutely. Within those walls. Completely distinct. Did de stigmatized if that's a word. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Uh, okay. So consumption, we'll come back to it type of thing. Um, you know, as far as what, what else is on the slate here? You and I were talking and uh, and pesticides, I mean, you know, it's Kinda nice that were up to talking about pesticides. Yeah. The operators would not agree with me, but I mean this is a, um, you could argue this as a issue

Speaker 1: if you think back to 2008. Yeah. I mean we, you know, here in the office we call these first world marijuana problems. There you go. It's, it's the thing where, you know, five, eight, 30, 50 years ago, people were arguing, should we arrest people how long she put them in jail for? That was the question, and now we've made that decision. We're not going to jail people for marijuana, we're not even going to criminalize them for most issues related to marijuana, but we can still got to sort out the little details, right? Uh, and pesticides is a hot topic. I mean, it's interesting because, you know, things like Eagle 20 and these other substances have been really sprayed on the marijuana that you and I have smoked for decades, you know, um, you would think there'd be some sort of ill effects amongst smokers. I haven't seen it.

Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's good to spray these pesticides now. Still still zero deaths though, right? So zero deaths. And so, you know, it's, it's, it's tough to say but, but are the state of Colorado is sort of, you know, taken a very hard line on a pesticides. Um, point five. I don't know how much you get into the science is a little baffling, but it's like five parts per billion. It's just sort of insane. Um, small amounts, uh, you know, it's Kinda like the same as on an apple or something. You have that same amount of eagle 20 or whatever. There's and all people are consuming. Um, but the, the really frustrating thing is the state has just been wholesaling a wholesale seizing people's growth. I'm dealing with clients that have had 4,000 plants a CS and just put on hold and then they're not given a path out there.

Speaker 1: There's no due process. So that's really frustrating to us because we just want our day at court, you know, my guy said they're not spraying at all, we just want our day in court and the state's not giving it to us. So I think we may be suing to make that happen soon. Well, yeah, so that's where we, you know, we're, we're talking to activists, Brian Vicenta. Let's talk to lawyer. Brian Vicenta. How is there no due process is the first question and then I'll ask you about apples. Yeah, I mean essentially a, they're there, the state is sort of falling back on this sort of public health emergency exception saying, oh, marijuana sparing marijuana, pesticides, it's so bad that if we get any hint that there a pesticide within, you know, a mile of your facility that we're going to shut the whole thing down. And then, uh, and you know, believe me, we're not trying to argue.

Speaker 1: People should be able to spray it with pesticides that are harmful. Um, although certain pesticides or organic, I mean, you know what I'm saying, like there are things that work that don't injure the end user, but the state has not given us the due process of like let's have a hearing, let's, let's get in front of a judge, let's do this. And, and I think it's because no one's pushed back against this sort of a recent phenomenon in the last year of 60 days, 90 days where the state is just seizing people's property and then sending press releases saying, this guy's property is a, you know, this guy's marijuana is filled with Mike Review. Now nobody use it, filled with whatever. You know. There's not a lot of science on their side, either fibers were billion, which has a half life of like 30 days. So by the time they're, you know, the press release goes out, it's like almost now, but uh, anyway, so we're just kind of, well that's one of those, you know, issues where we're trying to peel the onion and figure out.

Speaker 1: And as far as pushback, I mean you guys are pretty good at that. Yeah, we're, we, you know, we, we believe in making these laws work for, for consumers and for businesses in the community. So how much can you tell me about the conversations that you're having in terms of pushing back? Where are we on the life cycle? There were pretty advanced, you know, I mean I, uh, I would be surprised that we didn't file a lawsuit in the next week or two. Oh, okay. Yeah. Care to know because it's not filed, filed and I, you know, I'm hoping we are. I'm not a litigious guy by nature, believe it or not. I prefer to actually try to sort things out and we've been reaching out to the state and saying, Hey, let's, let's, let's talk about this. You guys are breaking the law and you're holding people's property and you, this is America.

Speaker 1: You can't just take people's property, not charged. I mean, and uh, there's this conversations have not been fruitful so far. Interesting. Remember that a South American countries are coming to us to look for ways to do this in their countries. Um, and just finally, let's talk about apples. You know, are you, is that for real? Is that a, like to like comparison, if I might have the same amount on my apple, you hear that about apples and grapes and these other sort of, uh, you know, fruits with fruit and vegetables that are sort of eating openly like that. So, you know, I am not a scientist, but I've just been reading a fair amount about this and you know, there's certain pesticides have been used widely, uh, in, uh, in agriculture in our country for, for years and years and years. And some of those siblings are being used on marijuana.

Speaker 1: What is the damage, you know, like is it inappropriate as appropriate? I mean, all this is a totally important discussion. The state is sort of just said, hey, if this is on the list and we think you'd have some, we're gonna, we're gonna seize your property and not give you any sort of pat to get your property back. And we just think that's wrong. Black and white, black and white. Yeah, exactly. Give us some great. That's what we like is great. That's where I'm meant go, Hey, this is my wheelhouse. Glittery laws. So, so, uh, let's, let's spread some gray across the country, you know, that that's Colorado and we might come back and talk about that further. But where else are you active right now? Like I said, we're making our way to the, to the third quarter of a, of 2016. What are you focused on?

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, one of the great things about our law firm is, you know, we were so policy driven. I mean we're, we're a, we're a law firm that just has a mission. Our mission is to legalize marijuana everywhere. Um, and uh, so we spent a lot of our time working on policy issues related to this and we're actively involved in and a good handful of campaigns, legalize marijuana this November, Massachusetts is where I've been spending a fair amount of time and thought and I think we're going to win that one. California, of course. Uh, and then, you know, Nevada, Arizona and maybe Vermont, so. So we're pretty involved. And then there's, there's robust medical laws in Florida where we're involved as well and Ohio. We spent a little time out there. So, you know, I think I think this November is going to be one of the biggest nights and marijuana policy ever.

Speaker 1: Okay. So before we get to that, I want to talk because we just talked to Steve Fox about his personal thoughts of where, where everything is. I'll go backwards if you will, Nevada. He kind of put up as we could have some opposition there and if we have opposition that's not so great. Yeah. What's up with the sheldon question? Sheldon Adelson gonna throw a couple of dollars at this thing. Who knows, you know, and that, that would, it's a polling there is in our favor, but it's not overwhelmingly so. So a couple million dollars could make a pretty big difference. We shit the wrong way. Right. Uh, he suggested a dialup, MPP.a.whatever.org, dot org. If you want to donate to Nevada specifically. Is that a good way to make my voice heard? Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean it's, you know, this is the thing I like about our law firm.

Speaker 1: We get hit up for money a lot and we give a lot of money to charity, but people come in our door all the time and with their handout with there, you know, and God bless them. I mean, I did that for years myself. Exactly. You got to try to find your nonprofit advocacy efforts and to ask for money. But this year I basically told everyone know, unless you are legalizing marijuana or medical marijuana this November. And so I, I really think that the cool thing about being in this election year is like, you will know whether your money was well spent on November ninth right? You know that like, it's not like a longterm policy objective of what curing poverty or we're doing it, you know, that type of thing is important, but this, what we're talking about is literally just making election night more fun, you know, you can say I gave $100 in Nevada and I'm going to no avail.

Speaker 1: Is money well spent and when they win I'm going to, I'm going to claim credit for that type of thing. Just watch your TV or check your phone that night. That's also, I don't know if I'm supposed to know this or not, but there's opposition internal opposition in Massachusetts. Am I not supposed to know that or is that pretty well known by this point? I mean, are you talking about what the governor and the internal operator, the operator in. Oh, this guy, yeah, that's been the freight as a Patriot care. I forget the name of the group, but um, but yeah, don't know that on purpose. Skagit. Yeah. Fair enough. You don't want them to put out a hit on, you know? Um, yeah, that's, you know, having run legalization campaigns. One of the most disheartening things that can happen to you is having medical marijuana operators and advocates come out against the legalization measure, um, that I actually worked really hard to prevent that from happening here in 2012 in Colorado.

Speaker 1: But some of them did anyway because they're either profit driven and they have their current slice of the pie and they, they don't want to let new people into the market, um, or they're just more medical than medical type people. And, and, and that's, uh, you know, it's frustrating when that happens. I don't think that, that, that operator in Massachusetts and associated lobbyists will, will have much effect on the measure at the end of the day. But there is sort of a, a psychological toll that takes on the campaign. And so now I'm on these calls with them every other week and trying to, you know, let them know like, we've been through this before too, man. You're going to have some of your base revolver. You're going to have governors and other people come out that you wished they'd like you, but they're not the ones that lead the charge against prohibition. They never are. You weren't in Colorado in 2012. They're not going to be this year. Uh, ems

Speaker 3: chooses, but they are, right. I mean the, the governor mayor kind of coming out against it, um, you know, not leading the charge but, but a part of the chart. This is just to clarify, like they are going to lead the charge to keep

Speaker 1: horrible marijuana laws in effect. Right? Right. And they're not the ones who are, who see where this is going and when I want to arch this towards social justice in a better world are the architects and the builders of the, of the drug war. And they always are. It's, it's elected officials and law enforcement. And so they're going to come out against you and that you know, that that hurts. But that's when you need to really steel yourself and push, push, push.

Speaker 3: Well, what are your thoughts on. I mean, that seems like an odd state for the governor and the mayor of the city to come out against legalization. No.

Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, uh, you know, Massachusetts, the polling there is very strongly in favor of legalization. It's already considered a liberal state and a lot of ways. Sure. Legalize gay marriage for everyone and um, but you know, again, it's, it's that elected officials don't get this issue. Some of them do, but you know, really only when you beat them over their head with it.

Speaker 3: So, um, or if they're Bernie Sanders, Bernie Sanders on the burn tonight in New York. Here you go. Um, you know, in Colorado our art is the exact same thing. Our popular governor and our

Speaker 1: popular mayor came out and said, we hate marijuana. We're thinking about the kids. And no one else is in this level of hypocrisy is horrible. It's the exact same thing happening in Massachusetts. But you know, what happened after we legalized marijuana here, it was like the next day they're like, oh, we'd like to help you implement it.

Speaker 3: There we go. We want to be a part of history. Now. Let's set up this commission, let's make sure that Christians are part of it and the whole thing, I think we'll see the same thing, you know, late November and Massachusetts. Alright, I want to go down to Florida because, you know, we'll go out west in a minute. Um, although we did already do Nevada, but, uh, talk about Florida and, you know, that's kind of a wacky thing. They did vote in favor, but uh, it was only 59 percent or something like that as opposed to 60. Yeah, it's insane. What's different now, um, that you can share, that will change things in November.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all about the, uh, the voter turnout and it's basically the law is almost exactly the same as it was a lot last year when it failed. Fifty eight, 60 or 58, uh, we've got 50 percent of the vote, which is not winning, right? Yes, of course. Um, they need to get 60 because it's a amendment. Um, so the law is that it's functionally the same. Um, and the support is there. We're just going to have those supporters come out to the boat, to the ballot box, I mean, in, in presidential election years, we see younger voters, people of Color, folks that have been disenfranchised by the come out to vote for, for president, and they always support marijuana reform in large numbers. So I think it'll win in Florida and I'm going to get to that in a minute, what the presidential ballot might look like and what that means this year as opposed to any other, um, because it's not a normal year.

Speaker 1: Uh, but Arizona now what? It feels good as far as, you know, everybody I talked to, that one feels all right, it's tight, but what's happening, and I'm concerned about Arizona May, you know, maybe I'm an outlier on this one. Um, it's uh, you know, they, they've made some, some strong advances in their medical law, which is almost like flown under the radar. They expanded the number of stores and things like that. They've done some important work there, but it's such a weird state and drastically, they've, they've expanded the number of dispensary retailers drastically. So you would think that they were going forward in the right way? Yeah. Yeah. And they certainly are on the medical side, um, whether that's going to translate into a support for legalization, uh, by the kind of wacky voters that turn out in Arizona. I'll. No, I actually cut my teeth working on a marijuana reform campaign in Arizona in 2004 with Mason and mvp and some other guys. And it's just a tough population to figure out trends older and older voters don't really support medical marijuana, uh, in higher numbers. So. So we'll see. Man, I'm a little nervous about Arizona. Be Frank. That's one of the ones that both you and Mason said, uh, we, we won by losing that one.

Speaker 1: I'm speaking of winning by losing A. Plenty of that has, has happened in California in the past. Uh, everybody seems confident, you know, we've got now regulations mmrs say a working their way through and we've got adult use on the ballot and it's California. Are we missing anything? Yeah, I think they got it this year. I mean, if, if for no other reason than they're just, you know, they want to be cutting edge at this point, they're not, you know, they've been beat to the, to this progressive issue by, you know, a good for states and Washington DC. I think it's time for, for California who of course lead the charge of the medical marijuana in 1996 for anyone else. Uh, I think they now are just there. They got to get it done and it seems like the tribes have united and the money's there. And, and, and, um, you know, it's a smart.

Speaker 1: Uh, so the language is smart. So I think they probably pull through. Yeah. I'm the adult use language is smart. Correct. Yeah. Because, uh, when, when we talked to people like Steve, there's things in mmr and say that he's not thrilled with, um, nor are most of the operators, but whatever, right? Once we have regulations will, will, will kind of fight through that later. I think you gotta you gotTa win what you can win, right. You know, and then I think over time, like reasonable laws, we'll, we'll sort of implemented from there. So now when would you can win? Let's talk about Ohio. Um, I really would like to know what was going through your mind, uh, this past year when, um, well it was a different type of setup there, right? So how would you explain it? I'm from Cincinnati, right? So this is something that I was born in Columbus, grew up in Cincinnati that I was pretty fired up about Ohio and uh, you know, maybe his listeners may know is sort of just a very poorly written law on a number of ways, kind of created this oligopoly type structure where a few people got rich.

Speaker 1: Um, but believe it or not, I actually supported it and a lot of, a lot of legalization folks didn't because it was sort of the rich man's legalization or what have you. Um, because what has always driven me is keeping people from being arrested for marijuana. That is what really matters to me. This all these, you know, business opportunities that are, are our second are important, but secondary to me, right, I'm clearly the Ohio voters did not feel the same way as this thing that crushed at the ballot and it got crushed for a number of reasons. One is just the, the turnout in a 2015 year election, you're not going to be able to support marijuana that the same way they will, they'll turn out in the presidential year. Um, and then it was, yeah, it was just, it was just so poorly written and that's frustrating because, you know, we reached out to those guys and just offered pro bono assistance and it didn't want to hear it, you know, they did not want to help with that language and just purposely poorly.

Speaker 1: Really. Yeah. Yeah. And then it also is just a horribly run campaign. I can't believe that guy can even show his face anymore after running that campaign. Do you mean the mascot? The Mascot Buddy? Yeah. Whereas buddy, hopefully in a pile of ashes somewhere. But uh, it was, you know, it was just an embarrassingly poor run campaign. So, you know, all that combined into being crushed, but I think medical, actually the support is there in Ohio, uh, and people get it and this new law is, is, is reasonable, uh, and doesn't create this sort of, you know, monopoly. So I, I think, uh, I think we see a strong chance of passage in November. Steve brought up Arkansas. I mean, really? Yeah. Yeah. I can sell man. This is Kinda the, uh, it's like the dark horse. I think it may sneak through. We've been helping them with fundraising and things like that because they're, they're kind of like the little engine that could, you know, all these other campaigns we've been talking about are backed by rich guys, Mpp DPA, just rich dudes and Arkansas has kinda got nothing by the way.

Speaker 1: Not the people running MPP or DPA funded. Exactly, exactly. So they're funneling the money in, into those organizations just to be clear. So donate to MPP and DPA, right, exactly. That they're funneling the rich guys towards these things, but not a lot of love has been shown for Arkansas. Uh, and I think they can win it man. And the work, they've done a a reminds me of the early stuff here where we had no money and it was all sweat labor and they've gathered like tens of thousands of signatures on their own and I just think that type of love that they're showing, like people need to support them, you know, and I think they're going to win. So you do think that, that. Why do you think that they're going to win? I, I gotcha. We've got our signatures, but how could it win at the ballot box?

Speaker 1: I understand that the presidential election, but it still is. Arkansas hasn't been really purple for a very long time. I think medical marijuana is becoming an issue that's not a bipartisan anymore. Perfect thing. It's something that, uh, you know, your, your Republicans and your Democrats just get it. If someone's sick, they should have access to whatever. They'll helps them. If that happens to be marijuana. So be it. And when you have 24 with Pennsylvania, does signing a medical marijuana law on Sunday, 24 administered on a loss? It's like my God, you know, like I think Arkansas and get bought or on board with us. So, uh, you know, if Arkansas winds, you know, and even Nevada and Arizona lose, isn't that a draw? You know what I mean? Let's say California winds, Arizona, Nevada, both lose just, you know, uh, speaking conservatively and then Arkansas winds.

Speaker 1: What does that mean to regular people? Like how could I digest that if I don't pay attention to cannabis laws? Yeah, I think, um, it's, I think it's meaningful in that it, you know, it's, it's, it's something happening in the south, right. And it shows that this, if it can happen here at kind of happen anywhere, right? I do think generally, I think there'll be a lot of wins this November for marijuana reform, medical marijuana as well. I think if California wins, it's sort of game over. It's a win regardless of what happened. Even if there's anything else loses basically because I don't think you can sort of roll it back after that. I don't think he rolled back right now anyway because all of these states are moving forward in such a sensible and thoughtful fashion like already. But uh, I think California mega economy, you know, Mega Academy, very influential state internationally, I think it's, it's Sorta game over at that point.

Speaker 1: And that could go east to, to Asia as well. It could, yeah. And then all the tourists that come through commerce and it just, I think will be a game changer. And then you have essentially the entire western United States. You have California, Oregon, Washington, all the way from Mexico to Canada that have legalized marijuana. And then Kevin Canada flips and then I've talked to, you know, elected officials and other and Mexico that are like, once California goes, Mexico's going to. Well they have to, I would imagine right after. So, um, so I think, you know, I think that will be a lot of wins in November, but I think once California goes, then it sort of so goes the nation. So it goes in addition. Yeah. Alright. So then now let's talk about this ballot then we might have, which just if everything lines up, um, and, and we, we get our rigged election.

Speaker 1: That's a joke. Or is it, and we've got trump versus hillary. What the heck is that to, to kind of, I mean, you know, forget burning, like just being on the ballot because we know what that means for cannabis. But what does that mean? What are your, what's your sense of that? Yeah, I mean, a fascinating. This whole thing. I thought I understood presidential politics though this year and the trump thing has just thrown me for a loop. Now no one does. No one can claim that they're an expert. Um, I think, you know, both trump and hillary have basically said states rights should rule on this. Trump's been all over the map, but he's all over the map and everything I think at the end of the day is more socially liberal probably than Ted Cruz. Um, so I think we're okay, but I think, you know, I think either of those, uh, those, uh, um, presidents, you know, would allow for, for states' rights to trump on this and then I think, um, you know, within two to three years I think we see a federal change, you know, and I think under either, I think probably under either.

Speaker 1: I mean, I just think like there's a level of hypocrisy when you have that many states, including very populous states like Texas or California, then don't, don't because I'll ask you about it. Yeah, that's right. I think Texas will move towards medical are pretty, pretty quick. I mean they're already making steps in that direction, but um, in their state house, uh, yeah, I mean they have like a very limited medical marijuana law now. I think it'll be much better in a year or two. Um, so the point is like you have these populists places moving towards this and to, to, to hold onto this, this duality of federal, state differences does not make sense. I think we'll see a federal shift quickly. The caveat or caveat being that if trump brings in Christie as his attorney general, then we get the reverse coal memos, right, man?

Speaker 1: Yeah. Now we're really looking, looking into a place like why not talk about it? Yeah. No, I mean it's possible if, if trump is on the ballot, anything's possible. And yeah, so that, yeah, that would be a bad result with the. Although I just got to assume trump and at the end of the day is, is a businessman and if he sees that there's this many states in this many jobs and you know, really sharpened, yeah, this much tax we're moving time is on our side. You know what I've been doing this type of work for a long time and my clients for years, we're very, you know, air quote, nontraditional business people that just wanted to help patients. And so I would help construe the laws so that we could figure out a way for them to help patients. And now it's like the people that knock on our doors are coming out of these fortune 100 companies coming out of government.

Speaker 1: Can you know, uh, for coming from across the globe, literally billionaires come through here, you know, at least once a month. I mean, it's, those guys are in this. It's going to be tough for any president to sort of unwind it, right? To say no to those people. Exactly. Yeah. It's mainstream, but it's, it's all becoming much more mainstream, more states passing, more legitimate people getting in. So then this is my personal question to you. So you're on the road, you know, in 2000, six, seven, you know, knocking your head against a wall in places like Arizona and initially in Colorado and people are looking at you like you are in sane now. We have legitimate business people coming into this, uh, you know, industry which

Speaker 3: is an industry by the way,

Speaker 1: black market. Uh, yeah.

Speaker 3: How does that, what do you, what are your internal thoughts and feelings about just what the hell's going on?

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been, it's been an amazing ride. I will say that, I mean, there was a deeply unpopular issue to advocate on for years that we've kind of kept piling up these string of small victories. And then, you know, the Big Kahuna in 2012, uh, with legalizing marijuana, so it's been a phenomenal change and you know, personally I try to try to walk this line between not forgetting, you know, that, that it was that difficult and that, that many elected officials spit in her face and cops, you know, pushed us around, like literally push us around with their hands, their hands, uh, so, uh, and then sort of trying to open up my heart and accept the fact that some of these people just changed their tune and now that they're here and they want to work on this issue and you know, trying to, trying to let them in to have that access to try to use their powers for good instead of evil and,

Speaker 3: and taking your last comment, essentially it's just going to make the whole thing go quicker if you just look at it as a businessperson. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 1: I mean that's the, you know, Ethan Nadelmann spoken about this when you have this legalization so incredible because it's this, it's this intersection of massive social change with business opportunity. And so you have this cool moment in time that we're living in where the, you know, this is all blowing up right now and there's so many opportunities and I do think the more, you know, more a legitimate business people, the more government officials that get involved, the quicker we're going to see a full blown and to prohibition.

Speaker 3: You brought up Canada and Mexico kind of, um, what are you hearing a, here's what I'm hearing. I'm hearing that dispensary's there are a ton of dispensary is now, which is fantastic. Uh, working against putting that genie back in the bottle. Um, you know, yes. They have the licensed producers system. A Trudeau got elected on the, uh, you know, auspices of legalizing cannabis. He's walked that back a bit. Have you, what have you heard?

Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, we, um, I've got high hopes for Trudeau and I think he's going to deliver, you know, after he got in with somebody, we talked to some of his kind of advisors and they said, you know, we're going to do this. We want to do it right. It's going to take a couple of years. And that's not really what I wanted to hear. I mean, I'm like, man, you should do it as fast as possible and you know, and this prohibition and move forward quickly. But I think that, I think they'll do it. I think they'll do it in a thoughtful way. I mean, he's got a lot on his plate, but, um, you know, with, I think again, they'll get another nudge in the right direction this November when a bunch more states in our country legalized. And I think they'll say, all right, you know, let's, let's get this thing rolling.

Speaker 3: Did you see the clip of him talking about quantum computing? No. No. Alright. So, uh, just to take this tangent for a second. So Dreamy. Justin Trudeau, right? Who's like, just very good looking. He just is, this is factual is dead if you remember that. Absolutely. Peer. Uh, so, so Justin Trudeau is at a press conference about quantum computing and a reporter asks him a question and first says, I was going to ask you about a quantum computing, but here's the political question. And so he does not. His face does not change. He does not react in any way and then he starts responding by answering the question on quantum computing and explaining quantum computing without, without blanket, which is perfect as. Yeah, that's a, he's a bread guy. Exactly. So I feel like if he's, you know, if he's sticking to his guns, if you will, and we'll do this. Okay, we'll wait type of thing. I think so. And I think really if you look at all the

Speaker 1: sort of developing a science and results related to marijuana and marijuana regulation is going in our country, like it's almost all positive, you know, and I think other states can see through some of the hysteria, you know, when the governor of Massachusetts sends out a letter, a letter that's been written by Kevin Sabet, I mean, you know, it's this sort of nonsense and I think that the actual numbers are getting through to people in other places and they're going to be adopting policies like these before we know it.

Speaker 3: Absolutely. I would saw ethan Nadelmann kind of debating. Um, I can't remember who, and that's probably not great, but whatever. Um, and he first, his first comment is, well, basically why, what is this debate? This debate is over and said he set the microphone down over. Yeah, I guess whatever you want to say, which is great. Um, all right, so that's where we are. What about Mexico? You know, it sounds like you have at least some conversations in Canada now. Let's go international Mexico waiting on California or any other kind of information there because they did come out and say we're looking at it. Yeah, they came out and said they're looking at it. Yeah. They've

Speaker 1: had some interesting sort of court decisions. Um, and they've just been horribly impacted by the war on drugs. Right. And, um, I mean, horribly. We've seen the movies, we've seen narco let, you know, it's, it's, it's sort of unbelievable. Um, so I think they're going to move, uh, you know, I think after California, so, you know, probably early 17 or something, we'll see some significant movement there. But I did want to know, like when we legalized marijuana here in 2012, um, you know, we were probably a surprise to anyone, but, uh, you know, the next day our phones to start ringing, man, and we heard from a lot of elected officials and other in Mexico that like we're crying and we're saying like, wow, you know, you don't know how big this is for Mexican citizens and folks in certain areas that are, that are really been negatively impacted by the drug war because they'd been fucking killed.

Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying? Their family's ever been tortured. Yeah. Uh, and if we could move away from that paradigm, have this vote has given us the opportunity to say there's something else out there. And so that's how the change doesn't happen overnight. But I think it's worth noting that the rippling that sort of came out of, of this, of the state of Colorado is, is setting up for major impacts in other places. And you were a, you went down to Latin America right after it passed here. Give us, you know, just to highlight some countries where things are going on. Conversations are happening. Sure. Obviously amazing things. Uruguay moved forward with legalization. I spent some time down there. So then my partner, Christian, any ill effects since you, you know, that it's been a few years now. Not that I'm aware of. Right? It seems to be.

Speaker 1: It's almost like they did it and everyone was like, oh my God, they can't do it. And then they did it and then there's no news, you know, it's sort of like it's being implemented. So no news is good news. Um, Columbia, uh, we know is, is looking hard and moving forward with medical marijuana. Um, you know, you hear a fair amount about movement and parts of Latin America. So I think, I think, I think we're going to see a lot of movement and I think we do see movement in Latin America, South America probably sooner than your Asia and Africa and places like that, but you know, six, 12, 18 months. What are we thinking? Just my guess is 2017 is when 20 November of this year is when the floodgates are going to open. All right, we're going to see a bunch of states move forward and people are.

Speaker 1: The federal government's gonna kind of throw up their hands and other countries will be like, wow, we're going to look at this again. We looked at it in 2012. He came out and visited with Brian and staff or whoever, and talked about whether it's right for us. Conversation started now. These guys know now legalization would push that much further. Uh, in, in, in the United States who was of course is the epicenter of drug war hysteria for years and exported that for years and years. That's why they have these terrible policies in many countries. One of our very worst exports, one of our worst exports, and now there's a revolution from within their states like Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Alaska, hopefully California, et cetera that are, that are changing that, that, those policies. So, let's see, you mentioned Washington. Let's just kind of go there for a second. Uh, because you've got Washington and Oregon right next to each other, right on top of each other.

Speaker 1: Oregon kind of just learned from Washington, put their policy into action. Everything's going very smoothly as far as anybody that I talked to, Washington keeps trying to fix. I don't know what they're fixing their getting rid of rid of medical. What, what do you, what conversations are you having? Because we spoke to John Davis and it's ridiculous. Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean there's almost like an identity crisis going on in Washington or something, you know, they legalize marijuana but then then they kind of couldn't really figure out how to roll it out in a way that made sense for their state. And as such they sort of said, well let's, let's not just focus on that. Let's actually, you know, rewrite everything to do with the marijuana and that, you know, they had a that I think they passed medical in 1998. So you know, that's been a long established law that now they're tweaking that and patient access, suffering and, and so it's just sort of a, a, an interesting situation.

Speaker 1: I mean, I think, you know, each state has to kind of figure this out on their own. They were one of the first out of the gate, you know, I think Colorado in many ways did a better job by my estimation. But by six months I said, yeah, we got a little jumpstart on them. Um, but I think they'll figure it out and there aren't a lot of smart people up there working on it. There's wide support in the state for getting the job done. Um, I just hope they don't sort of, you know, emasculate the medical program to get to a better recreational program. That's kind of what they're doing. It doesn't feel that way. Why aren't you listening to Washington state? Uh, but I guess, you know, as soon as they get out of their own way will be finding. And that's what I'm getting the sense that I'm getting from you is essentially when that happens, you know, when you get out of your own way, everything's fine.

Speaker 1: So, okay, fine. You want to, you know, you want to deal with pesticides. So let's talk about pesticides and the difference between apples, apples to apples to apples. The buds. Yeah. Apples to buds. You know, what, what is the big deal here? What is the issue, what is the, what? All. Alright. So that, that is a basically the context of the country. Any other, you know, international communities where you are active or having conversations, you know, we, I mean, it's fun because our staff talks to folks from all over the place. We're talking about delegation, Colombians this morning and you know, Australia is moving forward with medical marijuana, which is fascinating what's happening there because I spoke to a friend that's Australian and she said that they are actually very negative against it. Uh, you know, the community is, which doesn't sound right. Interesting. Yeah, I think it may.

Speaker 1: I've heard that before where it's almost like the government is leading and the people are falling, which is the exact opposite of what we've seen in our country. Uh, on medical marijuana. I've actually met with some government officials. It's been awhile, but I'm from la or from Australia. And so I, you hear about this movement going on through their state, through their national government to, to move closer to a, to medical marijuana. I think it's happening. Import, export with Canada as well. There's a connection there. I've heard about that. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, you know, I'm not sure if people are paying attention to the UN treaties anymore, but um, hey man, why not go for it? Well, that and then on gas is happening, you know, the big meeting is happening this week. You and I are here for the, uh, you know, industry holiday here in Colorado, but what do you expect out of that?

Speaker 1: Or you know, if x happens, why? Yeah, I mean the important thing is that you have these, you know, UN conventions and other sort of major intergovernmental meetings with folks discussing marijuana reform and broader drug policy reform. Right. So, you know, we saw that in Australia or my partner Christian was there last month and you know, you have this kind of dialogue going on and I've always just believed that the more you talk about marijuana prohibition in, the more you realize it's ridiculous. And that was one of the problems we dealt with for years is advocates. It's like people never thought about marijuana, they just didn't. And so we had to force them to buy, you know, doing stunts are filing, lawsuits are running campaigns and it was right there on the ballot where they going to do. They got to think about it at least for a minute.

Speaker 1: And when you think about it, you start thinking about their pockets, these with alcohol and you know, who's that guy holding the sign on the news last night I was facing to. Was he going to say uh, you know, that I just believe people have been misinformed on drugs for so long and to have, you know, the honest discussion is, is what we need. And so I think that's coming out of the on gas, etc. Right. We'll see what happens next week. We'll see what happens next week with a, with you and you go, did I miss anything? ARe you working on anything other than your family? Yeah, they're working on me, man. I have tWo kids, three and one. And they're a beat me up every day, uh, but I think that's a super exciting time and this is, this is a, if not the most important year in marijuana reform.

Speaker 1: It's, it's certainly a, you know, up there. And so we're going to see a lot of excitement this year and I just encourage people to get in touch, whether that's giving a couple bucks to a Massachusetts campaign, Nevada, wherever you are, it really will make election night that much more interesting. We're working with ssdp and other people like that on phone banking. I mean this is the year that I think we can, you know, put some nails in the coffin of prohibition, but we really need everyone to pitch in and help to do that. So that is the sense that I'm getting. It's the past 20 years leading up to November 6th kind of thing. Is that about right? Yeah, I believe that Israel. I mean, it's, it's, you know, we've had a, we've had a lot of changes and a lot of shifts and support over the last 20, 25 years and it's going to be a major culmination of that this november.

Speaker 1: Well, I'll give you a ring and uh, you know, during, when they're counting the votes of the right elements and we'll see. We'll see how we're feeling. There you go. We'll have our little scorecard and see who won this state. I can't wait for Arkansas. I mean because if that I just feel like, you know, California has to go, but out of everything else, if Arkansas goes, I feel like that just changes the entire conversation because it makes no sense or it makes all the sense of the world. Yeah. Yeah. And citizen led. I mean, you know, this isn't like one billionaire who's writing the check. This is completely sort of scenario. We, the people. There you go. Sorry. So the final question, I don't think I asked you last time, and even if I did, I, I still like to ask this every time now on the soundtrack of brian vicenta, his life, um, and you do know that I used to really want to pronounce it vincente.

Speaker 1: I just, you're not the only one, so it's like such a sink your teeth into vincente. But no, if a sentence on the soundtrack of your life named one track, one song that's got to be on there, a public enemy's fight the power. Oh, look at you. Look at you with nwa going into the rock and roll hall of fame, saying that rock and roll is not a form of music. It is a spirit. That's what ice cube said. Hey, good. But he wasn't in public enemy, but maybe he should have been. But talk about lyrical poetry and, and, uh, you know, tapping into people's energy for a, an interest in social justice, public enemy just did it the right way. There you go. Brian [inaudible]. Thank you so much. Good to see you, man. You got it. We'll talk to you soon. All right, take care. All right, and there you have brian,

Speaker 2: uh, you know, bringing us back to the nineties, or was it just the public enemy's fight? The power. Respect to flavor flave. Anyway, a very much appreciate brian's time. Very much. Appreciate your time. Thank you so much for listening. As always.

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Cannabis Economy is a real-time history of legal cannabis. We chronicle how personal and industry histories have combined to provide our current reality.